PSA: These are not Pre-HoT Damage Numbers. Everyone's damage is significantly lower than Pre-Hot

[mortrialus.3062]

Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Another expansion is happenimg, I'm sure they want us to get used to this lvl of power so when the expansion drops it has a bigger impact. You do this early enough and ppl don't realize the real reason for this nerf.I mean u still got core necro, and a few other classes over performing. I would have loved a 3rd balance during the 2v2 season but that didn't happen.

[Alatar.7364]

I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

[Alatar.7364]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

[mortrialus.3062]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a thief as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

[Dantheman.3589]

Correction

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

[otto.5684]

We already know. power damage is extremely low. Games are slow. Meta is condi and CC infested. No one saw that coming...right... :/

[mortrialus.3062]

@Dantheman.3589 said:Correction

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in generalIf you look at what classes were doing then and doing now, yes, it is. Across the board.

which I thought you’d know by now becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

You'd be wrong. Before Path of Fire I barely ever posted on the forums at all, even when I played in PvP. I mean heck in that Era I mained Warrior. You're welcome to browse my posts.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/search/all?page=1&q=mortrialus.3062

I will say Backstab is not doing 9k on golems without assassination signet and it isn't doing 6k on heavy armor targets the way it used to, you know, like the actual video evidence I provided.

[Dantheman.3589]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

[Dantheman.3589]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Correction

@mortrialus.3062 said:Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin.

So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form;

Everyone

is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type.

This is not just the cases for every class or the game in generalIf you look at what classes were doing then and doing now, yes, it is. Across the board.

which I thought you’d know by now becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher

You'd be wrong. Before Path of Fire I barely ever posted on the forums at all, even when I played in PvP. I mean heck in that Era I mained Warrior. You're welcome to browse my posts.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/search/all?page=1&q=mortrialus.3062

I will say Backstab is not doing 9k on golems without assassination signet and it isn't doing 6k on heavy armor targets the way it used to, you know, like the actual video evidence I provided.

Actually your right because if like in the video you posted those backstabs had LA stacks or even conditions + might they would be doing significantly more than the 9k and oncheavy golems even more than 6k. In fact you could run that build and be very tanky with insane stealth, mobility and get probably up to 12k backstabs if aforementioned stars align

[mortrialus.3062]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

NEITHER IS THE 2014 RANGER

Dan, stop. This isn't even about Soulbeast this is about what ranger is capable of. You think running Skirmishing would boost damage most? News Flash; It doesn't. The sorts of tricks like prebuffing might to 25 stacks will give you obscenely boosted damage levels, but they'd also obscenely boost your damage levels back then. But when you look at what the actual capabilities are, no profession right now is doing as much damage as they were before heart of thorns. That's just a fact.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

[Dantheman.3589]

OK guys as you can see I have video proof that damage atm is more than x2 what it was in 2014 if we consider maul builds decent atm-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582017577In case u were wondering what that hit for- it was 9.6k just walking up to target

[mortrialus.3062]

@"Dantheman.3589" said:OK guys as you can see I have video proof that damage atm is more than x2 what it was in 2014 if we consider maul builds decent atm-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582017577In case u were wondering what that hit for- it was 9.6k just walking up to target

So after merging with pet, pre-stacking 10 might and quickness, using the trait that gives % bonus damage with quickness, then attacking you do a lot of damage thus completely invalidating every metric I set forth for you to actually match.

[God.2708]

I mean. If you want to have a proper and comprehensive discussion about this you have to acknowledge there is minor stat creep from runes and moderate to large boon creep from might, and some % damage increase from traits. Pre-HoT the major builds were things like celestial Hambow and d/d ele who's entire thing that made them strong was being able to get to 15+ might and stay there for an extended period of time.

You don't need to do all this video nonsense, you can just check patch notes. Maul had a 40%, then 26%, then 7%, then 10% increase since it's inception, then got nerfed from 1.75 to 1.5, then to 1.36. Backstab hasn't actually had any adjustments to its damage since inception aside from the competitive decrease. Most issues with backstab were things that thieves would combo with it (Crit Mug! LoL).

Doing a simple numbers cut is easier to work around than performing mad adjustments to every boon application in the game which is going to have a lot more cross mode split issues. So in general builds that are performing well now are ones that generate might at a solid rate on their own, or don't need might because they can eliminate the enemy from having any and winning the no might vs no might fight.

[Dantheman.3589]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

[mortrialus.3062]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

Boy that ain't nothing but photoshop.

I also specified same stats as meta and no assassination signet which you broke.

[Dantheman.3589]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:OK guys as you can see I have video proof that damage atm is more than x2 what it was in 2014 if we consider maul builds decent atm-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582017577

In case u were wondering what that hit for- it was 9.6k just walking up to target

So after merging with pet, pre-stacking 10 might and quickness, using the trait that gives % bonus damage with quickness, then attacking you do a lot of damage thus completely invalidating every metric I set forth for you to actually match.

Guess what yes there’s might and correction percent damage with fury trait, but that’s not the only reason I merged. Btw take off the 7% dmg mid on fury and the tiny bit of might and that still hits for x2 what you posted from 2014Edit: also guess what if I just didn’t take the traits that give boons on merge, which why would I, they would actually give flat increase to the damage anyways and actually pull up from what I’m calculating as extremely close 9.5k anyways, so not worth complaining

[Dantheman.3589]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

Boy that ain't nothing but photoshop.

I also specified same stats as meta and no assassination signet which you broke.

Nothing but photoshop???- that was taken from a live stream using same stats as you and guess what- who’s care about assassins signet as the metric you also provided was to get no more than 4K ever on that golem and this would still be more than x2 even without signet. In fact it would be like 2.3x what you claim

[Aktium.9506]

I dunno about Rangers in core since they were practically as rare as unicorns on EU. But, yeah we had cancer oneshot garbage back in core with Thief + Mediguard duos.

I don't miss it one bit.

[Avatar.3568]

I hit with my ranger on chevalier, in game not at golem, up to 8-9k, on soulbeast with zerker you can go even up to 17k with maul.

The dmg is still higher than pre Hots, but the sustain too.

[Quadox.7834]

Ranger is a bad example because power ranger was really bad in early core (and ranger in general probably saw the least play out of all 8 profs), for example rapid fire had a 5 second channel and arrow velocity was about a third. War/thief etc work better to compare prob.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot.

That right there is a true skill.

You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer-

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/582032169

This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling

Boy that ain't nothing but photoshop.

I also specified same stats as meta and no assassination signet which you broke.

Nothing but photoshop???- that was taken from a live stream using same stats as you and guess what- who’s care about assassins signet as the metric you also provided was to get no more than 4K ever on that golem and this would still be more than x2 even without signet. In fact it would be like 2.3x what you claim

https://imgur.com/gallery/AjAqbwt

[apharma.3741]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:I'd like to see the Video.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason.

I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so.

Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D

2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target.

2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage

Video I referenced:

Neither of which come close to slapping a

thief

as hard as it did in 2014.

Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare.

Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet.When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k.So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage

NEITHER IS THE 2014 RANGER

Dan, stop. This isn't even about Soulbeast this is about what ranger is capable of. You think running Skirmishing would boost damage most? News Flash; It doesn't. The sorts of tricks like prebuffing might to 25 stacks will give you obscenely boosted damage levels, but they'd also obscenely boost your damage levels back then. But when you look at what the actual capabilities are, no profession right now is doing as much damage as they were before heart of thorns. That's just a fact.

That's the thing you're missing though.

THIS ISN'T CORE ANYMORE DOROTHY

Needs to be in big letters so you all see it, core you had only 5 trait lines and that was it, depending on when you mean in core you also had less traits you could pick but now you get 9 major traits and 9 minor traits while there's also elite specs which add their own increase to some areas so you can't make an apples to oranges comparison and call it a day.

A core ele could be support, hybrid, bruiser, spike damage and it's optimal build was always core. Now if you want to play your optimal like for like role it's not always core. If you want to play support it's tempest and tempest beats the pants off core support ele. Want to play a bruiser or FA spike damage it's weaver and you're doing similar levels of damage to in core, probably a little more on the whole.

So to put it bluntly you can't compare core to core because core now is vastly different to core 2014 or 2015. You should be comparing builds for playstyles and looking for the comparison there except it's quite difficult because many amulets have changed and we didn't have reliable tools for accurately testing damage back then, only maths.

Also anyone want to put a number on what they consider "significant"? Are we talking 10% difference? 30%? Something in between?