How is DE in sPvP?

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

I'm curious how deadeye is in sPvP. I'm guessing it is kinda bad do to the crazy amounts of aegis/generic blocks/projectile blocks/reflect, but figured id ask since i really like the playstyle of it right now.

I know in WvW it's definitely worse than my necromancer overall but it is still fun to play and it's good enough.

[Burnfall.9573]

@"SlitheSlivier.1908" said:I'm curious how deadeye is in sPvP. I'm guessing it is kinda bad do to the crazy amounts of aegis/generic blocks/projectile blocks/reflect, but figured id ask since i really like the playstyle of it right now.

I know in WvW it's definitely worse than my necromancer overall but it is still fun to play and it's good enough.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"SlitheSlivier.1908" said:I'm curious how deadeye is in sPvP. I'm guessing it is kinda bad do to the crazy amounts of aegis/generic blocks/projectile blocks/reflect, but figured id ask since i really like the playstyle of it right now.

I know in

WvW

it's definitely worse than my necromancer overall but it is still fun to play and it's good enough.

Didn't answer the question at all....But i appreciate the link. And the name of the vid made me laugh. I still have more favorable 1v1 matchups on necro b/c the kitten tons of blocks don't matter as much... something will get through, and my attacks aren't projectiles so my attacks aren't subjected to the other half of blocks that are specifically against projectiles.

[Avatar.3568]

There are good DE's but more bad de's

[Tayga.3192]

It's kind of bad but does good damage

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

I picked up a marauder DE for shits and giggles at the end of the season, it doesn't oneshot as good as I hoped, but it does good damage at long range and is fun to play so I'm satisfied.

[myboybuzzy.5809]

I got into plat on de last season. For conquest just abuse shadow portal, and run s/d as your off hand. The counters to rifle are los and blocks, which s/d handles great. Also only use deaths judgment when you know they are out of dodges, it is the most telegraphed skill in the game and easily dodged with a long cast time anand self reveal. You'll just be wasting time...

But the main thing is understand your role. You are still a thief which means your job is to create outnumbered situations. Some great ways to do this is just eliminate a particular player or two from the match, delete necros, kill people in roads, and of course the standard decap and +1. A lot of the time motioning a decap is enough to pull a player off the team fight, so you can quickly come back and flip the fight. For 3v3 I'd say it probably isnt a good choice, but I may play with it for the memes.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@myboybuzzy.5809 said:I got into plat on de last season. For conquest just abuse shadow portal, and run s/d as your off hand. The counters to rifle are los and blocks, which s/d handles great. Also only use deaths judgment when you know they are out of dodges, it is the most telegraphed skill in the game and easily dodged with a long cast time anand self reveal. You'll just be wasting time...

But the main thing is understand your role. You are still a thief which means your job is to create outnumbered situations. Some great ways to do this is just eliminate a particular player or two from the match, delete necros, kill people in roads, and of course the standard decap and +1. A lot of the time motioning a decap is enough to pull a player off the team fight, so you can quickly come back and flip the fight. For 3v3 I'd say it probably isnt a good choice, but I may play with it for the memes.

Interesting to mention s/d. I was thinking of dropping my sb for d/d, largely for the dagger stealth attack. I forgot sword has some unblockable tho. Do you use the sword teleport to gap close or typically save initiative and let them come to you?

[UNOwen.7132]

Its bad. Its just worse than regular thief, with you either giving up the mobility of shortbow 5 (and as a result being outmanouvered by every single roamer in the game), or you give up a melee set to swap to, in which case any projectile denial or LoSing messes you up, as does the enemy just porting on you. Either way, you lose.

[Bazsi.2734]

I made it work in plat 2. I'm pretty sure if I were to play anything else, I would have been able to reach plat 3. Imo playing DE is a handicap right now.

[Falan.1839]

It can meme bad players and some favourable matchups pretty bad, but good teams will usually know how to counter you unless their comp lacks mobility really hard.

[Qaju.2058]

If you were a good DE roamer in WvW you will probably get to P1 P2 fine.

Stronghold is the closest to WvW, but it's only in unranked.

Ranked revolving around capture points gives DE an handicap.The way the point economy works is défavorable to you trying to linger in off point for 1v1 even if you know you could win it.Take too long and you waste pts, and mostl likely you'll get +1 by time you think you would win that 1v1 on far or home.

I view ranked PvP as Player Vs Points and not classic PvP which would be in WvW.

On the plus side it's balanced and enjoyable to watch others get nerfs, brought back in line.

I'd go as far as even expect a shortening on the animation and cast time of Death's Judgement. DJ doesn't have a cc component. It's the only and main source of damage on DE. Anet had said the philosophy of hard hitting skills should revolve around 2.0 coefficient. Yes I know the malice buff per stack and that's why it never was at 2 but 1.65 Yet it got from 1.65 to 1.11. with big patch. It doesn't warrant having the long sound and laze effect anymore. Cut the kneel down to laze animation by half.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@aleron.1438 said:If you were a good DE roamer in WvW you will probably get to P1 P2 fine.

Stronghold is the closest to WvW, but it's only in unranked.

Ranked revolving around capture points gives DE an handicap.The way the point economy works is défavorable to you trying to linger in off point for 1v1 even if you know you could win it.Take too long and you waste pts, and mostl likely you'll get +1 by time you think you would win that 1v1 on far or home.

I view ranked PvP as Player Vs Points and not classic PvP which would be in WvW.

On the plus side it's balanced and enjoyable to watch others get nerfs, brought back in line.

I'd go as far as even expect a shortening on the animation and cast time of Death's Judgement. DJ doesn't have a cc component. It's the only and main source of damage on DE. Anet had said the philosophy of hard hitting skills should revolve around 2.0 coefficient. Yes I know the malice buff per stack and that's why it never was at 2 but 1.65 Yet it got from 1.65 to 1.11. with big patch. It doesn't warrant having the long sound and laze effect anymore. Cut the kneel down to laze animation by half.

with full malice ( 5 not 7 ) makes DJ almost 2.0, its about 1.94+. long cast time? it has 1/2s on top of DE having quickness and it ends up as 0,33s cast time skill.

EDIT on top of that rifle has better base weapon damage then others, example1047 GS1095 Rifle952 axeThis means rifle deals 15% more dmg then axe from weapon strength alone.4,5% more then GS.. etc etc its not just 2.0 coof that maters

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"aleron.1438" said:If you were a good DE roamer in WvW you will probably get to P1 P2 fine.

Stronghold is the closest to WvW, but it's only in unranked.

Ranked revolving around capture points gives DE an handicap.The way the point economy works is défavorable to you trying to linger in off point for 1v1 even if you know you could win it.Take too long and you waste pts, and mostl likely you'll get +1 by time you think you would win that 1v1 on far or home.

I view ranked PvP as Player Vs Points and not classic PvP which would be in WvW.

On the plus side it's balanced and enjoyable to watch others get nerfs, brought back in line.

I'd go as far as even expect a shortening on the animation and cast time of Death's Judgement. DJ doesn't have a cc component. It's the only and main source of damage on DE. Anet had said the philosophy of hard hitting skills should revolve around 2.0 coefficient. Yes I know the malice buff per stack and that's why it never was at 2 but 1.65 Yet it got from 1.65 to 1.11. with big patch. It doesn't warrant having the long sound and laze effect anymore. Cut the kneel down to laze animation by half.

with full malice ( 5 not 7 ) makes DJ almost 2.0, its about 1.94+. long cast time? it has 1/2s on top of DE having quickness and it ends up as 0,33s cast time skill.

The DE will not have quickness, unless facing a Mesmer. Maleficent Seven is the correct GM trait, for one, but also youre not gonna have max malice and stealth up with BQOBK without running out of quickness. Anyway, the skill is so insanely telegraphed that unless its bugged, you shouldnt be hit by it unless youre AFK. Making it less telegraphed isnt unwarranted, but Id go further and say take out more damage from it and give it to the regular skills, and maybe, just maybe, DE can go back to being "just below viable". I guess it kinda ruins the point of malice, but honestly at this point malice is just there to proc Maleficent seven so you can keep using the only good skill the weaponset has.

EDIT on top of that rifle has better base weapon damage then others, example1047 GS1095 Rifle952 axeThis means rifle deals 15% more dmg then axe from weapon strength alone.4,5% more then GS.. etc etc its not just 2.0 coof that maters

How likely you are to hit with a skill is the thing that matters most. DJ doesnt hit, arguably by design. I can get why, its actually decent damage, but its just lame how railroaded the weapon is and how much it sucks at that one thing it does.

[babazhook.6805]

Clarity needed on your question. Far to many are talking about RIFLE when they talk about DE. DE can use any other weapon set outside of Staff .

Just by way of example, I find many of the DE utility skills (binding shadow and mercy as example) useful in a number of builds and prefer them over what in the Daredevil line for those utilities. The thief has seen INI costs rise across the board even as damage lowered and no line offers more in the way of added INI to any build.

[Aihao.5824]

watched out some 3v3 games on twich, so symbolbrand has more dmg than de. that's ridiculous.De has no survivability, rifle countered by block/reflect, and rifle doesnt give burst like it was before patch. De less mobile then dd, so ur decapping/+1 role goes worse. Maybe u'll have some advantages at 1v1, but some builds are unkillable even with berserker amulet, just cuz of running around pylons.Pvp is about bunker clashing and doing faceroll.

[SlitheSlivier.1908]

@babazhook.6805 said:Clarity needed on your question. Far to many are talking about RIFLE when they talk about DE. DE can use any other weapon set outside of Staff .

Just by way of example, I find many of the DE utility skills (binding shadow and mercy as example) useful in a number of builds and prefer them over what in the Daredevil line for those utilities. The thief has seen INI costs rise across the board even as damage lowered and no line offers more in the way of added INI to any build.

I was initially talking about rifle, but I'm open to anything. Knowledge is power.

[Qaju.2058]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@aleron.1438 said:If you were a good DE roamer in WvW you will probably get to P1 P2 fine.

Stronghold is the closest to WvW, but it's only in unranked.

Ranked revolving around capture points gives DE an handicap.The way the point economy works is défavorable to you trying to linger in off point for 1v1 even if you know you could win it.Take too long and you waste pts, and mostl likely you'll get +1 by time you think you would win that 1v1 on far or home.

I view ranked PvP as Player Vs Points and not classic PvP which would be in WvW.

On the plus side it's balanced and enjoyable to watch others get nerfs, brought back in line.

I'd go as far as even expect a shortening on the animation and cast time of Death's Judgement. DJ doesn't have a cc component. It's the only and main source of damage on DE. Anet had said the philosophy of hard hitting skills should revolve around 2.0 coefficient. Yes I know the malice buff per stack and that's why it never was at 2 but 1.65 Yet it got from 1.65 to 1.11. with big patch. It doesn't warrant having the long sound and laze effect anymore. Cut the kneel down to laze animation by half.

with full malice ( 5 not 7 ) makes DJ almost 2.0, its about 1.94+. long cast time? it has 1/2s on top of DE having quickness and it ends up as 0,33s cast time skill.

EDIT on top of that rifle has better base weapon damage then others, example1047 GS1095 Rifle952 axeThis means rifle deals 15% more dmg then axe from weapon strength alone.4,5% more then GS.. etc etc its not just 2.0 coof that maters

If you think that DJ only gives 0.5 reaction time to an enemy, you're sorely mistaken and I welcome you to play a DE in PvP or WvW. What you see on a tooltip on wiki isn't the real picture.

No one takes BQoBK anymore. Everyone dodges/blocks/avoids the first DJ.Were you to even still use it, and even setup a [binding > mark > DJ 1malice] or even dare a [binding > mark > #2 > DJ at 3 malice] to ensure a burst opener on a knocked down opponent; at the current numbers; you ain't downing anyone and you'll be out of initiative real fast with no protection to save your ass.

I honestly don't understand why you brought up gs or axe into this. Rifle may have higher weapon strength but it's #1 is horrific Both axe and GS have higher coefficient, higher dmg tooltips, and faster cast times hit animations than rifle 1. And not by small value differences...

And honestly I'd be fine if they lower the damage numbers of DJ if it makes it 1/4 cast, no lazing no sound and ditch reveal. It can have 169 (0.4 coefficient) like AA#1 with just the malice buff for only bonus for all I care or even cursed bullet. It would allow a faster gameplay.

Or keep the current DJ values and cast but give it unblockable again with the caveat counterplay that if the target evades, you lose all the malice and have to restack it from scratch.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"aleron.1438" the reason why I brought weapon str is due to the fact its important to weapon calculation, quick example.LvL 3 eviscerate has 2.0 coof, its inline with their strong skill having 2.0 . but it has weapon strength of 952.952 x 2 = 1904meanwhile DJ on 5malice has "less " then 2.0, its only 1.9425 , but the weapon strength is 1095.1095 x 1.9425 = 2127as you can see base damage of DJ at 5 malice is about 11,7% bigger then base damage of warriors eviscerate at level 3 adrenaline.