Do You Find The Game More Fun To Play Now Or Before Revamp

[KrHome.1920]

The thread is missing a "Neither nor" vote to pick.

For me nothing changed. I run exactly the same builds like before but changed the amulet from paladin to marauder.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:@"UNOwen.7132"My my, it's lovely how some players here try to describilise other by writting for them and do the questions and answers I'm sad for you, really.

Im not writing for you, Im just quoting you in the correct context. You did all of that yourself.

First having impact can be different to having muliple effects. Look at sniper ambush. Highly telgraphed and only does damage.

Can be, but doesnt have to be. But you dont want it to be possible, because you dont like telegraphed high impact skills.

Secondly one more time more precisely :I have no problem with few telegraphed skill being impactfull.

Thats not what you said before. But sure, Ill accept your backtracking.

Then I dunno what you were playing prepatch but it look kinda tanky and full of sustain looking at how you laugh, probably not all time on grenade engi. I totally understand that by playing this tank tou can't kill anything post patch.Hint : go play squich build then enjoy the game.

Hahahahahaha, no. What I played pre-patch, and post-patch, is a squishy burst build. Thing is, everything I said is still true. Pre-patch, a thief would never be able to burst me for more than 40% of my hp. I mean thats not exactly surprising. A thief burst was 8k damage, tops. An Engineers base health is 16000, slap on the health from Marauders and boom, thats not even 40%. And no, the reason everyone cant kill anyone is because damage is too low and survivability is too high. Lets take an example. Im a squishy burst build. My Grenade Barrage can do up to 8k damage in a single swoop. The necro Im fighting has effectively 50k health. You see an issue, dont you?

Its not much better against anyone else. The Holo has prot and barrier, the Firebrand can constantly heal back up and has toughness aegis and block, the revenant has glint heal, toughness, shield and so on. The Tempest can straight up avoid being crit alltogether and has healing up the wazoo. The Ranger has protection, passive healing and plenty of active defenses. The thief is the only one who might be killable, and yet that wont happen either because the thief wont be there in an even fight.

So, tell me. How exactly do you think any of these builds is going to die without being outnumbered? Spoiler: They arent. We saw that in MOTA.

I have the same rank prepatch and post patch. Who are you before yelling about other level because I don't remember seeing you in game aprt whinig on forum.

You appear to be playing on NA. Then again, I dont care for your rank, I care for what yo usay, and how wrong it is.

Prepatch was 10 min fighting(moving) around points. Post patch is 10 min fighting on point.Tdlr.

Blatantly 100% incorrect. Pre-patch was short, high skill fights. No "10 min fighting around points". In fact, you move around points the most post-patch because outnumbering is the only way anyone is ever going to die.

I also see that you didnt address the diversity thing. I guess you realised that post-patch diversity went way down. So, allow me to do the proper tl;dr:

Post-patch skill and diversity went way down. Even fights dont end as noone can be killed without being outnumbered. Instead of carefully timing and setting up your big skills, you just faceroll and spam everything off cooldown because damage is too low for you to be able to afford to delay any of it. Instead of every class and multiple builds being viable per class, 2 classes straight up arent viable and the other 7 have fewer builds viable than before. Instead of a wide variety of interesting comps, you have 2 cookie cutter comps that nearly everyone uses. PvP has come down entirely to who can move around the map better and even fights are a thing of the past because you need to outnumber to kill. The patch is a significant downgrade under every metric.

Edit: Just to hammer the point across, check out this montage by obindo from the MOTA. Youve seen montages before. However, before the patch, how many montages can you think of where the fights never end in the guy downing his enemy? The only time he downs someone in the montage is when he outnumbers them. Otherwise its just endless on point fights where no one dies. And thats at the very top level. Pretty decisive.

[otto.5684]

@"KrHome.1920" said:The thread is missing a "Neither nor" vote to pick.

For me nothing changed. I run exactly the same builds like before but changed the amulet from paladin to marauder.

Would not that be major failure on Anet part though? Major wasted effort.

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132

Nop, clearly not, sind launch a top 13k on me just with backstab, if you add the 2k5 steal it grow to ~15k. You'r lucky the said video was just removed.We don't all play carried build with protection uptime or damage reduction traits you know.

I'm probably pretty strong to kill you'r unkilable class then.

What we saw in MOTA is a particular setup build for coordinated 5v5. And thoses players are trained to not die. Even pre-patch you would not have much more kills that thoses we saw in this MOTA. The only difference would be that instead of players fighting/dancing on point, they would be more running/dancing around points.

I'm talking about duelling versus goku and boyce when talking about war 2 pages ago but I'm on NA sure...Funny how you have good memory to imagine supposed backtracking but not on this kind of things. Maybe you need to stop reading one post over two and stop living in a evil butterfly world with tanks everywhere.

What we saw in your vid is obindo playing one build with good sustain facing other builds with good sustain wich are one of the few teak anet had to finish balancing.Even with that, when you look like at 2:00 he is at 50%HP.It's not difficult to imagine that versus a mes who boon clear and rupt he can get even more low.And It's even more easy to imagine than when I'm facing other rev without obindo skill, they could die.

[Enduronex.4865]

It's less fun now because there are 10,000 CCs and no stability, Revives are more powerful than three zerkers cleaving, so many classes do boat loads of AOE condi that (you can't dodge) require resistance or a boat load of cleanses or invulns to ignore such that lazy composition beats skill in so many cases, and Swiss tournaments are such that if one member of your party quits before the final match, none of your party members get gold or QP effectively wasting 45 min of you and your remaining party members' time.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:@"UNOwen.7132"

Nop, clearly not, sind launch a top 13k on me just with backstab, if you add the 2k5 steal it grow to ~15k. You'r lucky the said video was just removed.We don't all play carried build with protection uptime or damage reduction traits you know.

Im lucky the video that never existed got removed? Yeah, right. Here is the fun thing: I can prove, with ease, that he didnt. Or rather, not without you having a ton of vulnerability and him having a ton of might stacks. Even on a light armour class with 0 toughness, you would not even come close to 13k. Remember, Backstab only got nerfed by 25%, and it hits for 4-5k at most nowadays. So how do you think 25% extra damage would up that by 300%?

I'm probably pretty strong to kill you'r unkilable class then.

Didnt you just say that you never met the meta full of tanks? How are you killing them if youre never facing them?

What we saw in MOTA is a particular setup build for coordinated 5v5. And thoses players are trained to not die. Even pre-patch you would not have much more kills that thoses we saw in this MOTA. The only difference would be that instead of players fighting/dancing on point, they would be more running/dancing around points.

Fascinating theory, 100% incorrect as usual. Again, compare it to old MATs, and the difference is once again staggering. You saw more kills. However, more importantly, you saw more people being forced to disengage rather than just staying in the fight for 7 minutes. And disengaging from a point is still losing. Fights ended without needing to outnumber. They do not now.

I'm talking about duelling versus goku and boyce when talking about war 2 pages ago but I'm on NA sure...

What are you even talking about here?

Funny how you have good memory to imagine supposed backtracking but not on this kind of things. Maybe you need to stop reading one post over two and stop living in a evil butterfly world with tanks everywhere.

I dont imagine anything, I know it. You backtracked, and are too cowardly to admit it. And mate, just because youre lucky enough to not see the meta which is objectively just builds that survive everything everywhere, doesnt mean that the meta doesnt exist and isnt hot garbage. It does, and it is.

What we saw in your vid is obindo playing one build with good sustain facing other builds with good sustain wich are one of the few teak anet had to finish balancing.

Thats all of the meta builds right now. And no, its not "one of the few tweaks anet had to finish before balancing", its an inevitable result of making damage the lowest it has ever been in the games history. When damage is low, these are the fights you will get. Also, fun fact, Holo doesnt have particularly high sustain. And even a low sustain class would still have fights like that, because healing skills exist.

Even with that, when you look like at 2:00 he is at 50%HP.

He also hit 50% several times in the 7+ minute duel that never ended against the other rev in the MOTA. 50% is meaningless. Healing skills exist.

It's not difficult to imagine that versus a mes who boon clear and rupt he can get even more low.

He was getting 2v1d, and he barely fell below 50%. Sure, if one of them was a Mesmer, maybe the 2v1 wouldve killed him. But oh wait. Thats him being outnumbered. Remember how I said the only way you kill someone is to outnumber them? Yeah the clip shows why.

And It's even more easy to imagine than when I'm facing other rev without obindo skill, they could die.

Not without outnumbering, remember, still was a 2v1. That is the sad truth of the current gamemode. 1v1s, 2v2s, any fair fight is meaningless and never ending. Damage is too low for anyone to kill anyone in that kind of setup. The only way anyone dies in the current meta is if you outnumber. The game is down entirely to macro, and moving between points efficiently is the only thing that matters. Actual fighting is skill-less faceroll. Its the worst meta GW2 has ever seen. Its Cele Ele meta amped up to 11. And just lowering sustain wont solve that. The only thing that can solve it is to admit that lowering damage far below what the game has ever seen was a terrible idea, and revert most of the patch.

[viquing.8254]

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Im lucky the video that never existed got removed? Yeah, right. Here is the fun thing: I can prove, with ease, that he didnt. Or rather, not without you having a ton of vulnerability and him having a ton of might stacks. Even on a light armour class with 0 toughness, you would not even come close to 13k. Remember, Backstab only got nerfed by 25%, and it hits for 4-5k at most nowadays. So how do you think 25% extra damage would up that by 300%?Yeah in case you didn't know vids get removed on twitch after a certain period of time.Just to make you feel bad I just found the video I was talking about on his youtube channel, enjoy your no-clue about PvP and the 14k backstab :17:38

Ho and you can even see how everyone spend his life low life in the funny old meta, just look at misha life bar.

I feel bad for your, like really. Again go play PvP instead of posting non-sense here please.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Im lucky the video that never existed got removed? Yeah, right. Here is the fun thing: I can prove, with ease, that he didnt. Or rather, not without you having a ton of vulnerability

and

him having a ton of might stacks. Even on a light armour class with 0 toughness, you would not even come close to 13k. Remember, Backstab only got nerfed by 25%, and it hits for 4-5k at most nowadays. So how do you think 25% extra damage would up that by 300%?Yeah in case you didn't know vids get removed on twitch after a certain period of time. Ask to other player who regulary watch his stream or to him directly.Just to make you feel bad I just found the video I was talking about on his youtube channel,

enjoy your no-clue about PvP

and the 14 backstab :17:38

How unfortunate, you manage to find the one video that proves my point. Look a bit closer. Thats not 14k. Thats 11k. The 4 from the leeching venom (or shadow siphoning, Im not 100%) 415 superimposed over the 11k backstab. And that was 11k with 9 stacks of vulnerability on the Mesmer, 25 stacks of might on the thief and 5 conditions on the target to amp up Exposed Weakness. So I guess, even with a ton of vulnerability and a ton of might stacks, 14k isnt doable. Whoops. So yeah, you just proved yourself completely wrong.

Ho and you can even see how everyone spend his life low life in the funny old meta, just look at misha life bar.

Except you cant see that. You see that sometimes people take real damage or even go down, but theyre supposed to. What you dont see however is everyone being at 15% all the time, or even half the time, or even a tenth of the time. You disproved yourself again.

I feel bad for your, like really. Again go play PvP instead of posting non-sense here please.

Says the guy who smuggly presented a video thinking it proves his point, when in truth is completely disproves his point. So please, go play PvP in your magical off-meta world instead of posting nonsense about how the old meta was totally so bad and this new meta (which you never see) is totally great and not hot garbage.

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132 said:Says the guy who smuggly presented a video thinking it proves his point, when in truth is completely disproves his point. So please, go play PvP in your magical off-meta world instead of posting nonsense about how the old meta was totally so bad and this new meta (which you never see) is totally great and not hot garbage.Lol?Continues to live in denial and stop trying to teach non-sense to other player.I didn't even answer to your last answer on how obindo got 50% hp before being +1ing, just buy a pair of glasses.Can also M. genius tell us where did the might come from ?

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Says the guy who smuggly presented a video thinking it proves his point, when in truth is completely

disproves

his point. So please, go play PvP in your magical off-meta world instead of posting nonsense about how the old meta was totally so bad and this new meta (which you never see) is totally great and not hot garbage.Lol?Continues to live in denial and stop trying to teach non-sense to other player.

The only living in denial is you. The only one saying nonsense is you. Just like you just posted a video thinking it proves your point when it completely disproves it. And just like what comes next, which is ...

I didn't even answer to your last answer on how obindo got 50% hp before being +1ing, just buy a pari of glasses.

You need to stop being smug, youre far too wrong far too often to be able to pull it off. Because you are indeed, once again wrong. He only hits 50% (11k) after Toker attacks. Before that the lowest he got is 14k, which is 63%. Whoops?

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:Can also M. genius tell us where did the might come from ?

Most people would not ask to have what is easily visible explained to them. But sure, Ill humour you. 8 from the Revenant. The remaining 17 stolen from the Mesmer. As for how the Mesmer got 17 stacks of might, looks like he also stole some of it. Of course, that wouldnt happen if he wasnt +1ing.

[viquing.8254]

Mean @"UNOwen.7132" :"Haha you lie, give me prove"Prove given."Haha it's a prove that is against you, we didn't see a thief engaging for 14k+".Just let people watch the vid, just because I don't want to discuss about evidence anymore. Mean it surely hurt to be wrong but you know sometimes you better not persist in unknlodege than trying to hand up to the tree.Same for the look at how people spend all game low life and the moment they aren't low life is when they aren't in fight or play the few class that could stay 20 sec before retreat.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:Mean @"UNOwen.7132" :"Haha you lie, give me prove"Prove given."Haha it's a prove that is against you, we didn't see a thief engaging for 14k+".

You do know that proof has to be A, true, and B, support what youre saying to be proof, right? And it doesnt. It is indeed proof against your statement, showing that not only is thief very far from hitting 75% even with 25 might AND 9 vuln AND 5 condis (he hits for about 60%), but it shows that the damage in the average situation is much lower and fails to hit even 50%. So Im sorry, but you are wrong.

Just let people watch the vid, just because I don't want to discuss about evidence anymore. Mean it surely hurt to be wrong but you know sometimes you better not persist in unknlodege than trying to hand up to the tree.

Of course you dont want to. There isnt much to discuss. The only thing you could truthfully say is "I was completely wrong, the old meta isnt even remotely at all like what I have been saying". But then you dont really want to say that, do you? Because then youd have to concede that you have no good arguments against hte old meta. And then youd have to admit that it indeed was better.

Same for the look at how people spend all game low life and the moment they aren't low life is when they aren't in fight or play the few class that could stay 20 sec before retreat.

More living in denial. Look again. They are constantly fighting, constantly taking damage. But that damage they take gets them down to 75%, or 50%, or hell even 35% but not even to 25% let alone you mythical 15%. Now, why is that? Because, while people could actually do damage, and mistakes were punishable, you still needed to make mistakes to take serious damage quickly (or be outnumbered). So, what happens if you dont keep screwing up? Of course, you dont get hit that hard. Turns out, as stated above, you were simply wrong.

[viquing.8254]

It was a fucking one shot high pressured meta who shutdown diversity and made even the best player get pressured by random aoe like proven in the vid where sind take sometimes 75% HP while not even being targeted.Now if you like it, glad you but It wasn't the case for me, neither for the 43 % people vote in this thread, plus if you take in account that mainly unhappy people complain in forum, this ratio is probably even higher overall in game.The real "was it better before or now" should be anet stats about players activity which will probably never be communicated to us.

[TeqkOneStylez.8047]

The game was better pre heart of thorns./End thread

[UNOwen.7132]

@"viquing.8254" said:It was a kitten one shot high pressured meta who shutdown diversity and made even the best player get pressured by random aoe like proven in the vid where sind take sometimes 75% HP while not even being targeted.

It was a high pressure meta, yes. Thats good. You want that, that makes for skillful and fun gameplay. However, it was not a "oneshot meta" (as you can see in the video with the absence of oneshots). Despit what bad players want you to believe. And no, you didnt get "pressured by random AoE", the old meta actually had less AoE, and the times where Sind takes a lot of damage, its from being focused down.

Now if you like it, glad you but It wasn't the case for me, neither for the 43 % people vote in this thread, plus if you take in account that mainly unhappy people complain in forum, this ratio is probably even higher overall in game.

Yes, we have noted it. And I have already told you why. Because the old meta was skillful, and unforgiving for mistakes. The new meta is skillless and extremely forgiving for mistakes to the point where mistakes dont really matter. Since you apparently "always ran around at 15%" (something that, as you can see in that video, is absolutely abnormal for the old meta), you kept making mistake after mistake after mistake. You didnt like the fact that your mistakes get punished. And now that the meta lets you make mistakes over and over without any risk of being punished, youre happy.

43% is a minority. And let me tell you this, its probably fewer ingame. Because the people who are most likely to use the forums are those who have been complaining for a long time. And until recently, the people complaining were people like you. In reality, Its probably closer to 30% of people who prefer the current meta, because it is hot garbage.

The real "was it better before or now" should be anet stats about players activity which will probably never be communicated to us.

No, but you can still make observation. Queue-time, top of leaderboard, and so on. And yeah, it all points to fewer people playing now than before the balance patch.

[viquing.8254]

It wasn't more skilled, mean you just have to concentrate during the 10 sec high pressure then moving while now you stay in fight way longer. Such skill : count 2 evade while pressuring, burst, switch to next target, wow I feel so strong kill people in chain. I play to fight not to walk on a map.You consider having carried high pressure as skill, me not. And some class were given passive and easy tools to forgive mistake while other no. Let me show how you face sind with a power mesmer just for the laugh please.43% is not 20%/80% difference.People going in forum are mainly thoses unhappy with the current meta, other just play the game and enjoy it. It certainly not 30% overall.In game top leaderboard show player who didn't play for a long time who come back yeah. But you see what you want to see.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"viquing.8254" said:It wasn't more skilled, mean you just have to concentrate during the 10 sec high pressure then moving while now you stay in fight way longer. Such skill : count 2 evade while pressuring, burst, switch to next target, wow I feel so strong kill people in chain. I play to fight not to walk on a map.

It was considerably more skilled. Because mistakes mattered. And longer fights arent more skillful fights (quite the opposite, usually). Right now, mistakes dont matter. You dont die even if you screw up. All you do now is faceroll all your skills while waiting for your side to outnumber their side to be able to actually kill them.

Hell we already established that you were completely, 100%, without any doubt wrong about the previous meta, and that everything you used to describe it couldnt be further from the truth. Once again, the same is true here.

You consider having carried high pressure as skill, me not. And some class were given passive and easy tools to forgive mistake while other no. Let me show how you face sind with a power mesmer just for the laugh please.

I consider having to actually play around the enemy, having to time your skill and having your mistakes be punished high skill. You consider being able to make mistakes ad infinitum without being punished, facerolling your keyboard and not timing anything while just waiting to outnumber them high skill. I wonder which one is closer to the truth.

Back then? I wouldve died. Because mistakes mattered. And I would make considerably more mistakes. Now? Id have a much better shot, because its not like he can really kill me after a single mistake. I can keep messing up and I will still be fine. Ill probably still lose, but whereas before the patch I would lose 100/100 games, this patch Id go as far as to dare say I would win 20/100 games. Maybe even more.

43% is not 20%/80% difference.

A majority is a majority.

People going in forum are mainly thoses unhappy with the current meta, other just play the game and enjoy it. It certainly not 30% overall.

Incorrect. People who use forums, or subreddits, are predominantly people who have already been using them for a long time. And indeed, those with a complaint about the meta are the ones who have used the forums the most before. Combine that, and you in fact get the fact that the people using the forum are the ones who were unhappy with the previous meta, or previous metas. People who were happy before but unhappy now might enter, but since most of them werent on the forums before, they wont be as many. It might not be exactly 30%, but it is 100% lower than the 43% here. 30% seems like a safe bet, might be even lower.

In game top leaderboard show player who didn't play for a long time who come back yeah. But you see what you want to see.

Not really. Most of those players you think "didnt play for a long time" actually were playing the whole time. You just never saw them before because a lot of the players who took up leaderboard spots that are now empty (and allowed them to move upwards) left.

[ZeteCommander.4937]

@viquing.8254 said:It wasn't more skilled, mean you just have to concentrate during the 10 sec high pressure then moving while now you stay in fight way longer. Such skill : count 2 evade while pressuring, burst, switch to next target, wow I feel so strong kill people in chain. I play to fight not to walk on a map.You consider having carried high pressure as skill, me not. And some class were given passive and easy tools to forgive mistake while other no. Let me show how you face sind with a power mesmer just for the laugh please.43% is not 20%/80% difference.People going in forum are mainly thoses unhappy with the current meta, other just play the game and enjoy it. It certainly not 30% overall.In game top leaderboard show player who didn't play for a long time who come back yeah. But you see what you want to see.

Maybe it's a coincidence that fewer people are willing to do video and live ?The current version is to please new players, low skill floors, slow battle pace, delete the builds complained by new players, such as mirage, and only keep the most brainless builds

[mortrialus.3062]

@viquing.8254 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Im lucky the video that never existed got removed? Yeah, right. Here is the fun thing: I can prove, with ease, that he didnt. Or rather, not without you having a ton of vulnerability

and

him having a ton of might stacks. Even on a light armour class with 0 toughness, you would not even come close to 13k. Remember, Backstab only got nerfed by 25%, and it hits for 4-5k at most nowadays. So how do you think 25% extra damage would up that by 300%?Yeah in case you didn't know vids get removed on twitch after a certain period of time.Just to make you feel bad I just found the video I was talking about on his youtube channel,

enjoy your no-clue about PvP

and the 14k backstab :17:38

Ho and you can even see how everyone spend his life low life in the funny old meta, just look at misha life bar.

I feel bad for your, like really. Again go play PvP instead of posting non-sense here please.

I was pretty open about Shadow Arts Core DP having too high of a burst at the time and even made a thread about it. But my point still stands that you can address that build on an individual level without throwing the baby away with the bathwater.

Also in that rev montage he played power rev multiple times and could not manage to kill a single target on his own.

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:It wasn't more skilled, mean you just have to concentrate during the 10 sec high pressure then moving while now you stay in fight way longer. Such skill : count 2 evade while pressuring, burst, switch to next target, wow I feel so strong kill people in chain. I play to fight not to walk on a map.

It was

considerably

more skilled. Because mistakes mattered. And longer fights arent more skillful fights (quite the opposite, usually). Right now, mistakes dont matter. You dont die even if you screw up. All you do now is faceroll all your skills while waiting for your side to outnumber their side to be able to actually kill them.Right now I kill people even on a subpar class.Hell we already established that you were

completely

, 100%, without any doubt wrong about the previous meta, and that everything you used to describe it couldnt be further from the truth. Once again, the same is true here.Yeah continue dreaming about your lovely supposed skilled meta who will probably never come back if you want. It didn't change anything for me.

You consider having carried high pressure as skill, me not. And some class were given passive and easy tools to forgive mistake while other no. Let me show how you face sind with a power mesmer just for the laugh please.

I consider having to actually play around the enemy, having to time your skill and having your mistakes be punished high skill. You consider being able to make mistakes ad infinitum without being punished, facerolling your keyboard and not timing anything while just waiting to outnumber them high skill. I wonder which one is closer to the truth.I consider having MU where meta build are highly stronger than others as bad yeah, particulary when most of the output was easy to get.Back then? I wouldve died. Because mistakes mattered. And I would make considerably more mistakes. Now? Id have a

much

better shot, because its not like he can really kill me after a single mistake. I can keep messing up and I will still be fine. Ill probably still lose, but whereas before the patch I would lose 100/100 games, this patch Id go as far as to dare say I would win 20/100 games. Maybe even more.

43% is not 20%/80% difference.

A majority is a majority.

People going in forum are mainly thoses unhappy with the current meta, other just play the game and enjoy it. It certainly not 30% overall.

Incorrect. People who use forums, or subreddits, are predominantly people who have already been using them for a long time. And indeed, those with a complaint about the meta are the ones who have used the forums the most before. Combine that, and you in fact get the fact that the people using the forum are the ones who were unhappy with the

previous

meta, or previous metas. People who were happy before but unhappy now might enter, but since most of them werent on the forums before, they wont be as many. It might not be exactly 30%, but it is

100%

lower than the 43% here. 30% seems like a safe bet, might be even lower.Forum people are ALWAYS mostly whiners.Mean even you pre patch post some whine posts.

In game top leaderboard show player who didn't play for a long time who come back yeah. But you see what you want to see.

Not really. Most of those players you think "didnt play for a long time" actually were playing the whole time. You just never saw them before because a lot of the players who took up leaderboard spots that are now empty (and allowed them to move upwards) left.

Once you start to be in LB, you start to know people. Again don' t talk avout something you didn't know.

@ZeteCommander.4937 said:

@viquing.8254 said:It wasn't more skilled, mean you just have to concentrate during the 10 sec high pressure then moving while now you stay in fight way longer. Such skill : count 2 evade while pressuring, burst, switch to next target, wow I feel so strong kill people in chain. I play to fight not to walk on a map.You consider having carried high pressure as skill, me not. And some class were given passive and easy tools to forgive mistake while other no. Let me show how you face sind with a power mesmer just for the laugh please.43% is not 20%/80% difference.People going in forum are mainly thoses unhappy with the current meta, other just play the game and enjoy it. It certainly not 30% overall.In game top leaderboard show player who didn't play for a long time who come back yeah. But you see what you want to see.

Maybe it's a coincidence that fewer people are willing to do video and live ?The current version is to please new players, low skill floors, slow battle pace, delete the builds complained by new players, such as mirage, and only keep the most brainless builds

Yeah it's certainly less thrilling to stream something where you didn't chain kills because you play something who had forgiven tools while splitting half life bar in few seconds.Note that they always have to do some tweaks I never deny that.

[viquing.8254]

Double post

[Master Ketsu.4569]

There is a missing option: It was better for the first month after the feb balance patch, but has gotten to the point where things are now slightly worse due to meta shifts evolving more and more towards AoE spam specs. Overall most skills and abilities are actually in a better spot, but because AoE spam has no real counter it has become dominant.

A big problem is that all the balance changes afterwards have been numbers-nerfs, rather than acknowledging that most remaining issues have their roots in poorly designed mechanics. Like I would not be surprised in the slightest if the next balance patch is along the lines of "Increased cooldown of Symbol of Vengeance to 12" "Increased energy cost of Call to anguish to 40" or other similar lazy changes that do not address the actual cause.

I've already said my piece on why I think "jusT InCrEasE TeH CoOLDoWnz!111oneone!!" doesn't work here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97262/why-increasing-cooldowns-does-not-reduce-spam-and-can-even-make-spam-worse#latest

And I've already called out busted mechanics as the root of many balance issues here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/106433/7-examples-and-fixes-showing-most-remaining-balance-issues-are-due-to-busted-design-mechanics#latest

So I'll just leave it at that.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:It wasn't more skilled, mean you just have to concentrate during the 10 sec high pressure then moving while now you stay in fight way longer. Such skill : count 2 evade while pressuring, burst, switch to next target, wow I feel so strong kill people in chain. I play to fight not to walk on a map.

It was

considerably

more skilled. Because mistakes mattered. And longer fights arent more skillful fights (quite the opposite, usually). Right now, mistakes dont matter. You dont die even if you screw up. All you do now is faceroll all your skills while waiting for your side to outnumber their side to be able to actually kill them.Right now I kill people even on a subpar class.

You have also repeatedly noted that youre not facing the meta. Killing off-meta builds is not impressive. Fact is, if you were facing meta, you would fail to kill anyone, unless outnumbering.

Hell we already established that you were

completely

, 100%, without any doubt wrong about the previous meta, and that everything you used to describe it couldnt be further from the truth. Once again, the same is true here.Yeah continue dreaming about your lovely supposed skilled meta who will probably never come back if you want. It didn't change anything for me.

The only one dreaming is you. It wasnt a "supposed skilled meta", it was an objectively skilled meta, just like this one is an objectively unskilled meta.

You consider having carried high pressure as skill, me not. And some class were given passive and easy tools to forgive mistake while other no. Let me show how you face sind with a power mesmer just for the laugh please.

I consider having to actually play around the enemy, having to time your skill and having your mistakes be punished high skill. You consider being able to make mistakes ad infinitum without being punished, facerolling your keyboard and not timing anything while just waiting to outnumber them high skill. I wonder which one is closer to the truth.I consider having MU where meta build are highly stronger than others as bad yeah, particulary when most of the output was easy to get.

No, you dont. Because thats the current state, and youre defending it like your life depends on it. You think its good when meta builds are highly stronger than others and diversity goes down the drain, otherwise you would be calling for the old meta to return. Seeing how the gap was much more narrow and diversity was much, much higher. You also prefer a highly unskilled meta where mistakes cant be punished over a skilled meta.

Back then? I wouldve died. Because mistakes mattered. And I would make considerably more mistakes. Now? Id have a

much

better shot, because its not like he can really kill me after a single mistake. I can keep messing up and I will still be fine. Ill probably still lose, but whereas before the patch I would lose 100/100 games, this patch Id go as far as to dare say I would win 20/100 games. Maybe even more.

43% is not 20%/80% difference.

A majority is a majority.

People going in forum are mainly thoses unhappy with the current meta, other just play the game and enjoy it. It certainly not 30% overall.

Incorrect. People who use forums, or subreddits, are predominantly people who have already been using them for a long time. And indeed, those with a complaint about the meta are the ones who have used the forums the most before. Combine that, and you in fact get the fact that the people using the forum are the ones who were unhappy with the

previous

meta, or previous metas. People who were happy before but unhappy now might enter, but since most of them werent on the forums before, they wont be as many. It might not be exactly 30%, but it is

100%

lower than the 43% here. 30% seems like a safe bet, might be even lower.Forum people are ALWAYS mostly whiners.Mean even you pre patch post some whine posts.

Theyre mostly the "whiners" you have been there for a while. People like you. So considering that even with that, you are the minority, the actual number is significantly lower.

In game top leaderboard show player who didn't play for a long time who come back yeah. But you see what you want to see.

Not really. Most of those players you think "didnt play for a long time" actually were playing the whole time. You just never saw them before because a lot of the players who took up leaderboard spots that are now empty (and allowed them to move upwards) left.

Once you start to be in LB, you start to know people. Again don' t talk avout something you didn't know.

Evidently you dont, seeing how you missed something this obvious.

@ZeteCommander.4937 said:

@viquing.8254 said:It wasn't more skilled, mean you just have to concentrate during the 10 sec high pressure then moving while now you stay in fight way longer. Such skill : count 2 evade while pressuring, burst, switch to next target, wow I feel so strong kill people in chain. I play to fight not to walk on a map.You consider having carried high pressure as skill, me not. And some class were given passive and easy tools to forgive mistake while other no. Let me show how you face sind with a power mesmer just for the laugh please.43% is not 20%/80% difference.People going in forum are mainly thoses unhappy with the current meta, other just play the game and enjoy it. It certainly not 30% overall.In game top leaderboard show player who didn't play for a long time who come back yeah. But you see what you want to see.

Maybe it's a coincidence that fewer people are willing to do video and live ?The current version is to please new players, low skill floors, slow battle pace, delete the builds complained by new players, such as mirage, and only keep the most brainless builds

Yeah it's certainly less thrilling to stream something where you didn't chain kills because you play something who had forgiven tools while splitting half life bar in few seconds.

Its funny that you think the old meta was somehow forgiving, yet at the same time super high damage where you could be blown up immediately. Most people would realise that those 2 things are completely contradictory. But I guess the cognitive dissonance doesnt bother you. No, its just less thrilling to stream when the meta is highly unskilled, mistakes dont matter, fights dont end unless outnumbered, and macro is the only thing that matters.

Note that they always have to do some tweaks I never deny that.

The only tweak that can fix this garbage meta is an (almost) full revert.

[viquing.8254]

Yeah and you are objectivity's incarnation.If old meta was so good then didn't even need to do a rework.Even if I'm a minority, you, like other people posting here can't speak for the community because there is part of this community who disagre with the game you ty to impose to everyone.About old meta if you even played risky build during this time, give proof if you have time because I really start doubting about your activity during this time, (mean at least I appear on top stream game for my part), you should notice than few class had life saving autoproc in their build. Strangely there were overepresented. But prepatch representation was probably fine for you.Seems skill = gutting 40% life per skill while having easy life safer for some people.