Do You Find The Game More Fun To Play Now Or Before Revamp

[UNOwen.7132]

@PLS.4095 said:

just because the old meta, which was high-skill and punished mistakes

loooooooolUNOwen, the new Genius !

Im always amused by people who find the truth funny. Do they just find everything funny? Is the truth something they see so rarely they cant help but laugh when they see it?

[Jables.4659]

@KrHome.1920 said:

For me nothing changed. I run exactly the same builds like before but changed the amulet from paladin to marauder.

The meta changed.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"PLS.4095" said:

just because the old meta, which was high-skill and punished mistakes

loooooooolUNOwen, the new Genius !

Im always amused by people who find the truth funny. Do they just find everything funny? Is the truth something they see so rarely they cant help but laugh when they see it?

Oh, no no, we're amused by you and other poeple that believe that "old meta was high-skill" thingie, it's hilarious to say the least.Thank you for giving me such entertainment with your biased posts, it's really fun to read them and others, though sadly I don't have enough popcorn.You people have an akward belief that 'High damage' that was shoved through our throats was "intended and healthy for the game", which is a lie, because giving such big boost to damage/sustain to a lot of skills promoted spamming and cheese mentality into oblivion.True, it falsely made the game "fast paced", but in reality it dumbed down skill required to be effective, because every skill was hitting for a lot of damage, even defensive ones were overstacked with effects, which even more dumbed down combat. In my case, thanks to powercreep I've got worse compared to core, since I've stopped caring about a lot of stuff around me and even I was falling asleep from boredom while playing certain classes at any given time.Another thing, this game is not Osu! or Muse Dash or any high-reaction time required game, it's a MMORPG, meaning internet connection is important factor in the outcome of battles as well. Before big patch there were instances when you could go 100-0 from stealth before enemy model even rendered on the screen, high burst from stealth still happens, but not to this degree.Another thingie: High Damage Skill = Big Shiny Animation Effect + Cast time(atleast >1s) = minimum 10~20s cd; otherwise if high damage skills have almost none animatio n or it's below 1s cast time, it's cooldown should be minimum of 40s atleast. You should work for your kill, it shouldn't be given for free because you facerolled on keyboard like that was the case on pre-balance.P.S. Currently sustain and few outliners need a shaves here and there.

[UNOwen.7132]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"PLS.4095" said:

just because the old meta, which was high-skill and punished mistakes

loooooooolUNOwen, the new Genius !

Im always amused by people who find the truth funny. Do they just find everything funny? Is the truth something they see so rarely they cant help but laugh when they see it?

Oh, no no, we're amused by you and other poeple that believe that "old meta was high-skill" thingie, it's hilarious to say the least.

So youre finding the truth funny. Im not sure why youre saying "no" and then reaffirm what Ive stated. Is this a weird roundabout way of doing the reverse of the "well yes, but actually no" meme? In that case, you need new material.

Thank you for giving me such entertainment with your biased posts, it's really fun to read them and others, though sadly I don't have enough popcorn.

I guess if youre biased, any objective viewpoint seems biased to you.

You people have an akward belief that 'High damage' that was shoved through our throats was "intended and healthy for the game", which is a lie, because giving such big boost to damage/sustain to a lot of skills promoted spamming and cheese mentality into oblivion.

Ah, the same nonsense as always. Lets dissect it, shall we? First the "giving such big boosts to damage/sustain". People like to say this a lot, but here is the funny thing. Thats not the case. If you look back at GW2s history, both damage and sustain were pretty much always about as high as pre-patch, just at different times. We had the dreadful Cele Ele/Engineer meta, which is basically like the current meta but at least with skill involved. Damage-wise, the D/P thief people complained about pre-patch was just pre-HoT thief, but significantly weaker. In fact, what is a lie is the belief that the damage we have now is "intended and healthy for the game." Its not. Quite the opposite, the damage right now is by far lower than it has ever been in the entire history of the game. Even pre-specialisation patch damage was way higher.

Now, the second part. "Promoted spamming and cheese mentality into oblivion". Equally popular, equally wrong. One could look at gaming in general, seeing that across all genres and all metas, the spammy ones are inevitably the ones with low damage, while high damage games and metas never are spammy. But sure, lets entertain the extremely unlikely, but theoretically possible notion that GW2 is just a very unique exception. Lets look at it logically then. So, you argue that damage pre-patch was way too high. Sure, you could argue that. But then logically we should see the top players at the highest level always immediately die or kill, and we wouldnt see any longer fights. Of course, that didnt happen. Thats why you amend your argument to "Well defensive tools were around that let you counteract damage". Ok, that is also valid.

But with those 2 in minds, you argue that the game was "spammy". Failing to notice the giant contradiction there. If there were defensive tools that let you counteract offensive ones easily, then what would happen if you spammed? Well, easy, the enemy uses his defensive tools, you waste all of your damage, and he kills you on the crackback. Which however means that its not spammy, because spam is ineffective. Now, to someone who may be familiar with more games, this is not surprising. Spammy metas are always low-damage metas, where there is no reason to hold back or time skills.

True, it falsely made the game "fast paced", but in reality it dumbed down skill required to be effective, because every skill was hitting for a lot of damage, even defensive ones were overstacked with effects, which even more dumbed down combat. In my case, thanks to powercreep I've got worse compared to core, since I've stopped caring about a lot of stuff around me and even I was falling asleep from boredom while playing certain classes at any given time.

If every skill hits for a lot of damage, and defensive cooldowns were very powerful, how does that dumb down skill? After all, that means you have to carefully navigate through their cooldowns while maximising usage of your cooldowns. That sounds very skillful, its no surprise of course, that is the standard of all skillful genres. MOBAs, Fighting Games, arena brawlers, and indeed even MMOs.

Another thing, this game is not Osu! or Muse Dash or any high-reaction time required game, it's a MMORPG, meaning internet connection is important factor in the outcome of battles as well. Before big patch there were instances when you could go 100-0 from stealth before enemy model even rendered on the screen, high burst from stealth still happens, but not to this degree.

Uh, you do know that almost all high-reaction games are online multiplayer, right? CS:GO, any fighting game, League, etc. Ping will always suck, you shouldnt dumb down and lower the skill of your game just to make sure that even those who have to play with major delay are at no disadvantage at all. On a sidenote, you still need low ping sometimes, for the one exciting and skillful thing that happens in games. Interrupting glyphs. Yeah its a bad sign when that is the highlight of the MOTA.

Another thingie: High Damage Skill = Big Shiny Animation Effect + Cast time(atleast >1s) = minimum 10~20s cd; otherwise if high damage skills have almost none animatio n or it's below 1s cast time, it's cooldown should be minimum of 40s atleast. You should work for your kill, it shouldn't be given for free because you facerolled on keyboard like that was the case on pre-balance.

Except that wasnt the case on pre-balance. If you facerolled on your keyboard the enemy 100% of the time lived, and then you 100% of the time died. You never got any kills for free unless the enemy was terrible. You had to work for your kill. Unlike right now, where the only time you get a kill is when youre outnumbering them, which you obviously didnt work for. Its also funny that you think high cooldowns improves the game in any way. Here is the thing: Increasing cooldown doesnt make the game more interesting or tactical, it just means there are larger periods of time where youre just waiting for cooldowns while slapping them with autos.

P.S. Currently sustain and few outliners need a shaves here and there.

As I have explained, you will have to keep shaving healing everywhere until the meta goes from low-skill as it is right now, to extremely low-skill, as everyone just swaps to instant or near-instant cast skills to spam at the enemy because the damage will stick. It aint the solution. What we need is more damage. Right now damage is far lower than it has ever been in the games history, and with the current meta, we see why the damage was always higher before, because this meta is just Cele Ele meta, but way worse.

[Lighter.5631]

lol dudes still be arguing now is more fun

[mortrialus.3062]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"PLS.4095" said:

just because the old meta, which was high-skill and punished mistakes

loooooooolUNOwen, the new Genius !

Im always amused by people who find the truth funny. Do they just find everything funny? Is the truth something they see so rarely they cant help but laugh when they see it?

Oh, no no, we're amused by you and other poeple that believe that "old meta was high-skill" thingie, it's hilarious to say the least.Thank you for giving me such entertainment with your biased posts, it's really fun to read them and others, though sadly I don't have enough popcorn.You people have an akward belief that 'High damage' that was shoved through our throats was "intended and healthy for the game", which is a lie, because giving such big boost to damage/sustain to a lot of skills promoted spamming and cheese mentality into oblivion.True, it falsely made the game "fast paced", but in reality it dumbed down skill required to be effective, because every skill was hitting for a lot of damage, even defensive ones were overstacked with effects, which even more dumbed down combat. In my case, thanks to powercreep I've got worse compared to core, since I've stopped caring about a lot of stuff around me and even I was falling asleep from boredom while playing certain classes at any given time.Another thing, this game is not Osu! or Muse Dash or any high-reaction time required game, it's a MMORPG, meaning internet connection is important factor in the outcome of battles as well. Before big patch there were instances when you could go 100-0 from stealth before enemy model even rendered on the screen, high burst from stealth still happens, but not to this degree.Another thingie: High Damage Skill = Big Shiny Animation Effect + Cast time(atleast >1s) = minimum 10~20s cd; otherwise if high damage skills have almost none animatio n or it's below 1s cast time, it's cooldown should be minimum of 40s atleast. You should work for your kill, it shouldn't be given for free because you facerolled on keyboard like that was the case on pre-balance.P.S. Currently sustain and few outliners need a shaves here and there.

Competitive modes should be a matter of "The better player wins."

You and your misguided ilk have this nonsense view that is ACTUALLY toxic and dumbed down that "You need to out skill your opponent by 57.8976885% or the fight should be a perpetual and that's fair and what good PvP looks like."

Good PvP games do not look like the state GW2 is in now. Not even mediocre PvP games do not look like the state GW2 is in. This is some of the most hideous this game's PvP had ever been, only truly outdone by Chronomancer's Era and the Era where a team of five Cele Eles, while maybe not the full on meta comp, could get you in like the top 2% in PvP.

And yet despite this so called "better balance". Despite 2v2s and 3v3s introducing much demanded game modes, the population continues to precipitously decline. Masters of the Arena got a fraction of the viewership Mist Challengers did. NA's top 250 is frequently getting dangerously close to hitting gold 2, which is the median meaning top 250 is close to being 50% of the population.

Your superior "work for your kill" perma bunker meta isn't saving the game mode and it's still dying.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"PLS.4095" said:

just because the old meta, which was high-skill and punished mistakes

loooooooolUNOwen, the new Genius !

Im always amused by people who find the truth funny. Do they just find everything funny? Is the truth something they see so rarely they cant help but laugh when they see it?

Oh, no no, we're amused by you and other poeple that believe that "old meta was high-skill" thingie, it's hilarious to say the least.Thank you for giving me such entertainment with your biased posts, it's really fun to read them and others, though sadly I don't have enough popcorn.You people have an akward belief that 'High damage' that was shoved through our throats was "intended and healthy for the game", which is a lie, because giving such big boost to damage/sustain to a lot of skills promoted spamming and cheese mentality into oblivion.True, it falsely made the game "fast paced", but in reality it dumbed down skill required to be effective, because every skill was hitting for a lot of damage, even defensive ones were overstacked with effects, which even more dumbed down combat. In my case, thanks to powercreep I've got worse compared to core, since I've stopped caring about a lot of stuff around me and even I was falling asleep from boredom while playing certain classes at any given time.Another thing, this game is not Osu! or Muse Dash or any high-reaction time required game, it's a MMORPG, meaning internet connection is important factor in the outcome of battles as well. Before big patch there were instances when you could go 100-0 from stealth before enemy model even rendered on the screen, high burst from stealth still happens, but not to this degree.Another thingie: High Damage Skill = Big Shiny Animation Effect + Cast time(atleast >1s) = minimum 10~20s cd; otherwise if high damage skills have almost none animatio n or it's below 1s cast time, it's cooldown should be minimum of 40s atleast. You should work for your kill, it shouldn't be given for free because you facerolled on keyboard like that was the case on pre-balance.P.S. Currently sustain and few outliners need a shaves here and there.

Competitive modes should be a matter of "The better player wins."

You and your misguided ilk have this nonsense view that is ACTUALLY toxic and dumbed down that "You need to out skill your opponent by 57.8976885% or the fight should be a perpetual and that's fair and what good PvP looks like."

Good PvP games do not look like the state GW2 is in now. Not even mediocre PvP games do not look like the state GW2 is in. This is some of the most hideous this game's PvP had ever been, only truly outdone by Chronomancer's Era and the Era where a team of five Cele Eles, while maybe not

the

full on meta comp, could get you in like the top 2% in PvP.

And yet despite this so called "better balance". Despite 2v2s and 3v3s introducing much demanded game modes, the population continues to precipitously decline. Masters of the Arena got a fraction of the viewership Mist Challengers did. NA's top 250 is frequently getting dangerously close to hitting gold 2, which is the median meaning top 250 is close to being 50% of the population.

Your superior "work for your kill" perma bunker meta isn't saving the game mode and it's still dying.

You write "better player wins" and then complain about that I want "You need to outskill your opponent...". XD I can't.In other words, you want a free kill without enemy being able to fight back, right? XDAnd good PvP games fix unbalance problems fast af, unlike GW2 which caters to casuals a bit too much and let them have their 'rewards' for facerolling on keyboard, which made them drunk on it.Allowing 2 or more of the same class in ranked was a mistake from A-net.Ah yes, Chronomancer, which like Mirage and Firebrand and few others are a MISTAKE from the very release. These e-speces shouldn't even be released, their very core design screams core+, which shouldn't happen. I'm fine Chronomancer being nerfed to the ground, it should be reworked like many others from scratch and after tests and confirming that it actually is a "different playstyle without powercreep" compared to core class, get released.Ah yes, problem of population, yet that decline started long ago, maybe even before HoT was released. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people started to get fed-up with HoT powercreep and eventually quit at PoF powercreep which was even worse than HoTs. You also forgot that PvP is practically the same since GW2 release, nothing new so far, people will get bored of course.A-net is far too slow with PvP/WvW updates, so people will leave, even if balance is better, it's simply boring at this point.And lastly, current "bunker meta" isn't even close to what was happening with Chronobunker meta. Somehow you didn't mention it, I wonder why~~ There are few outliners if it goes for sustain/damage ratio, but Mesmer is currently more or less balanced, same as war.

[mortrialus.3062]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"PLS.4095" said:

just because the old meta, which was high-skill and punished mistakes

loooooooolUNOwen, the new Genius !

Im always amused by people who find the truth funny. Do they just find everything funny? Is the truth something they see so rarely they cant help but laugh when they see it?

Oh, no no, we're amused by you and other poeple that believe that "old meta was high-skill" thingie, it's hilarious to say the least.Thank you for giving me such entertainment with your biased posts, it's really fun to read them and others, though sadly I don't have enough popcorn.You people have an akward belief that 'High damage' that was shoved through our throats was "intended and healthy for the game", which is a lie, because giving such big boost to damage/sustain to a lot of skills promoted spamming and cheese mentality into oblivion.True, it falsely made the game "fast paced", but in reality it dumbed down skill required to be effective, because every skill was hitting for a lot of damage, even defensive ones were overstacked with effects, which even more dumbed down combat. In my case, thanks to powercreep I've got worse compared to core, since I've stopped caring about a lot of stuff around me and even I was falling asleep from boredom while playing certain classes at any given time.Another thing, this game is not Osu! or Muse Dash or any high-reaction time required game, it's a MMORPG, meaning internet connection is important factor in the outcome of battles as well. Before big patch there were instances when you could go 100-0 from stealth before enemy model even rendered on the screen, high burst from stealth still happens, but not to this degree.Another thingie: High Damage Skill = Big Shiny Animation Effect + Cast time(atleast >1s) = minimum 10~20s cd; otherwise if high damage skills have almost none animatio n or it's below 1s cast time, it's cooldown should be minimum of 40s atleast. You should work for your kill, it shouldn't be given for free because you facerolled on keyboard like that was the case on pre-balance.P.S. Currently sustain and few outliners need a shaves here and there.

Competitive modes should be a matter of "The better player wins."

You and your misguided ilk have this nonsense view that is ACTUALLY toxic and dumbed down that "You need to out skill your opponent by 57.8976885% or the fight should be a perpetual and that's fair and what good PvP looks like."

Good PvP games do not look like the state GW2 is in now. Not even mediocre PvP games do not look like the state GW2 is in. This is some of the most hideous this game's PvP had ever been, only truly outdone by Chronomancer's Era and the Era where a team of five Cele Eles, while maybe not

the

full on meta comp, could get you in like the top 2% in PvP.

And yet despite this so called "better balance". Despite 2v2s and 3v3s introducing much demanded game modes, the population continues to precipitously decline. Masters of the Arena got a fraction of the viewership Mist Challengers did. NA's top 250 is frequently getting dangerously close to hitting gold 2, which is the median meaning top 250 is close to being 50% of the population.

Your superior "work for your kill" perma bunker meta isn't saving the game mode and it's still dying.

You write "better player wins" and then complain about that I want "You need to outskill your opponent...". XD I can't.In other words, you want a free kill without enemy being able to fight back, right? XD

In other, better PvP games the fight always ends in a victor. You don't have this problem where builds can endlessly reset to full HP over and over again. You send two complete noobs into a fight, the fight will end in a victor. You send two master professional player into a fight the fight eventually ends in a victor. They have offensive characters, defensive characters ranged kiting characters, even healing characters and they still don't consistent rot plaguing they game mode where there's tons of stuff that just cannot die without getting dog piled by multiple opponents at once because by design their self healing is superior to any one player's damage output.

[Arheundel.6451]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"PLS.4095" said:

just because the old meta, which was high-skill and punished mistakes

loooooooolUNOwen, the new Genius !

Im always amused by people who find the truth funny. Do they just find everything funny? Is the truth something they see so rarely they cant help but laugh when they see it?

Oh, no no, we're amused by you and other poeple that believe that "old meta was high-skill" thingie, it's hilarious to say the least.Thank you for giving me such entertainment with your biased posts, it's really fun to read them and others, though sadly I don't have enough popcorn.You people have an akward belief that 'High damage' that was shoved through our throats was "intended and healthy for the game", which is a lie, because giving such big boost to damage/sustain to a lot of skills promoted spamming and cheese mentality into oblivion.True, it falsely made the game "fast paced", but in reality it dumbed down skill required to be effective, because every skill was hitting for a lot of damage, even defensive ones were overstacked with effects, which even more dumbed down combat. In my case, thanks to powercreep I've got worse compared to core, since I've stopped caring about a lot of stuff around me and even I was falling asleep from boredom while playing certain classes at any given time.Another thing, this game is not Osu! or Muse Dash or any high-reaction time required game, it's a MMORPG, meaning internet connection is important factor in the outcome of battles as well. Before big patch there were instances when you could go 100-0 from stealth before enemy model even rendered on the screen, high burst from stealth still happens, but not to this degree.Another thingie: High Damage Skill = Big Shiny Animation Effect + Cast time(atleast >1s) = minimum 10~20s cd; otherwise if high damage skills have almost none animatio n or it's below 1s cast time, it's cooldown should be minimum of 40s atleast. You should work for your kill, it shouldn't be given for free because you facerolled on keyboard like that was the case on pre-balance.P.S. Currently sustain and few outliners need a shaves here and there.

Competitive modes should be a matter of "The better player wins."

You and your misguided ilk have this nonsense view that is ACTUALLY toxic and dumbed down that "You need to out skill your opponent by 57.8976885% or the fight should be a perpetual and that's fair and what good PvP looks like."

Good PvP games do not look like the state GW2 is in now. Not even mediocre PvP games do not look like the state GW2 is in. This is some of the most hideous this game's PvP had ever been, only truly outdone by Chronomancer's Era and the Era where a team of five Cele Eles, while maybe not

the

full on meta comp, could get you in like the top 2% in PvP.

And yet despite this so called "better balance". Despite 2v2s and 3v3s introducing much demanded game modes, the population continues to precipitously decline. Masters of the Arena got a fraction of the viewership Mist Challengers did. NA's top 250 is frequently getting dangerously close to hitting gold 2, which is the median meaning top 250 is close to being 50% of the population.

Your superior "work for your kill" perma bunker meta isn't saving the game mode and it's still dying.

You write "better player wins" and then complain about that I want "You need to outskill your opponent...". XD I can't.In other words, you want a free kill without enemy being able to fight back, right? XD

In other, better PvP games the fight always ends in a victor. You don't have this problem where builds can endlessly reset to full HP over and over again. You send two complete noobs into a fight, the fight will end in a victor. You send two master professional player into a fight the fight eventually ends in a victor. They have offensive characters, defensive characters ranged kiting characters, even healing characters and they still don't consistent rot plaguing they game mode where there's tons of stuff that just cannot die without getting dog piled by multiple opponents at once because by design their self healing is superior to any one player's damage output.

Other PvP games have also better counterplay options in general and far less passive sustain like here...those are the reasons why you are here and not there

[UNOwen.7132]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"PLS.4095" said:

just because the old meta, which was high-skill and punished mistakes

loooooooolUNOwen, the new Genius !

Im always amused by people who find the truth funny. Do they just find everything funny? Is the truth something they see so rarely they cant help but laugh when they see it?

Oh, no no, we're amused by you and other poeple that believe that "old meta was high-skill" thingie, it's hilarious to say the least.Thank you for giving me such entertainment with your biased posts, it's really fun to read them and others, though sadly I don't have enough popcorn.You people have an akward belief that 'High damage' that was shoved through our throats was "intended and healthy for the game", which is a lie, because giving such big boost to damage/sustain to a lot of skills promoted spamming and cheese mentality into oblivion.True, it falsely made the game "fast paced", but in reality it dumbed down skill required to be effective, because every skill was hitting for a lot of damage, even defensive ones were overstacked with effects, which even more dumbed down combat. In my case, thanks to powercreep I've got worse compared to core, since I've stopped caring about a lot of stuff around me and even I was falling asleep from boredom while playing certain classes at any given time.Another thing, this game is not Osu! or Muse Dash or any high-reaction time required game, it's a MMORPG, meaning internet connection is important factor in the outcome of battles as well. Before big patch there were instances when you could go 100-0 from stealth before enemy model even rendered on the screen, high burst from stealth still happens, but not to this degree.Another thingie: High Damage Skill = Big Shiny Animation Effect + Cast time(atleast >1s) = minimum 10~20s cd; otherwise if high damage skills have almost none animatio n or it's below 1s cast time, it's cooldown should be minimum of 40s atleast. You should work for your kill, it shouldn't be given for free because you facerolled on keyboard like that was the case on pre-balance.P.S. Currently sustain and few outliners need a shaves here and there.

Competitive modes should be a matter of "The better player wins."

You and your misguided ilk have this nonsense view that is ACTUALLY toxic and dumbed down that "You need to out skill your opponent by 57.8976885% or the fight should be a perpetual and that's fair and what good PvP looks like."

Good PvP games do not look like the state GW2 is in now. Not even mediocre PvP games do not look like the state GW2 is in. This is some of the most hideous this game's PvP had ever been, only truly outdone by Chronomancer's Era and the Era where a team of five Cele Eles, while maybe not

the

full on meta comp, could get you in like the top 2% in PvP.

And yet despite this so called "better balance". Despite 2v2s and 3v3s introducing much demanded game modes, the population continues to precipitously decline. Masters of the Arena got a fraction of the viewership Mist Challengers did. NA's top 250 is frequently getting dangerously close to hitting gold 2, which is the median meaning top 250 is close to being 50% of the population.

Your superior "work for your kill" perma bunker meta isn't saving the game mode and it's still dying.

You write "better player wins" and then complain about that I want "You need to outskill your opponent...". XD I can't.In other words, you want a free kill without enemy being able to fight back, right? XD

In other, better PvP games the fight always ends in a victor. You don't have this problem where builds can endlessly reset to full HP over and over again. You send two complete noobs into a fight, the fight will end in a victor. You send two master professional player into a fight the fight eventually ends in a victor. They have offensive characters, defensive characters ranged kiting characters, even healing characters and they still don't consistent rot plaguing they game mode where there's tons of stuff that just cannot die without getting dog piled by multiple opponents at once because by design their self healing is superior to any one player's damage output.

Other PvP games have also better counterplay options in general and far less passive sustain like here...

those are the reasons

why you are here and not there

Better counterplay than full blocks, invulns, and so on? No, not really. And as for far less passive sustain, also no. Lifestealing alone ensures that.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Population is booming since patch, so must be better lol, right.....

[Aeolus.3615]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Mesmers can still instantly kill me, power revs randomly do stupid damage, condi thieves can almost instantly kill me, holosmiths can randomly instantly kill me, and sic'em soulbeasts can randomly instantly kill me and burn guards can randomly instantly kill me.

I think that's it, everything else does relatively balanced damage or too little for the set up, telegraphs, cast times, or risk(scepter weaver) involved.

Don't worry, people don't know how to do damage because it was so easy pre-patch that they just had to randomly push buttons, I try to explain this to them but it look hard looking at the number of pages. ¯(°_o)/¯

i kinda feel the same, sometimes i ended killing players w/o paying atention to watch i was doing cause high damage was given(being condi or raw power), but atm i kinda feel that some CC skills need a portion of its damage back, and others need the gw1 treatment, for example, skill that interrupt if blocked target gets KD, skilld that KD and target block tartget gets cripled, etc.

Some classes where i tough was impossible to do high damage, ive seen players killing in a few sec other classes, i guess i fit in those that doesnt know how to make damage within certain builds/classes.. :\

[mortrialus.3062]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"PLS.4095" said:

just because the old meta, which was high-skill and punished mistakes

loooooooolUNOwen, the new Genius !

Im always amused by people who find the truth funny. Do they just find everything funny? Is the truth something they see so rarely they cant help but laugh when they see it?

Oh, no no, we're amused by you and other poeple that believe that "old meta was high-skill" thingie, it's hilarious to say the least.Thank you for giving me such entertainment with your biased posts, it's really fun to read them and others, though sadly I don't have enough popcorn.You people have an akward belief that 'High damage' that was shoved through our throats was "intended and healthy for the game", which is a lie, because giving such big boost to damage/sustain to a lot of skills promoted spamming and cheese mentality into oblivion.True, it falsely made the game "fast paced", but in reality it dumbed down skill required to be effective, because every skill was hitting for a lot of damage, even defensive ones were overstacked with effects, which even more dumbed down combat. In my case, thanks to powercreep I've got worse compared to core, since I've stopped caring about a lot of stuff around me and even I was falling asleep from boredom while playing certain classes at any given time.Another thing, this game is not Osu! or Muse Dash or any high-reaction time required game, it's a MMORPG, meaning internet connection is important factor in the outcome of battles as well. Before big patch there were instances when you could go 100-0 from stealth before enemy model even rendered on the screen, high burst from stealth still happens, but not to this degree.Another thingie: High Damage Skill = Big Shiny Animation Effect + Cast time(atleast >1s) = minimum 10~20s cd; otherwise if high damage skills have almost none animatio n or it's below 1s cast time, it's cooldown should be minimum of 40s atleast. You should work for your kill, it shouldn't be given for free because you facerolled on keyboard like that was the case on pre-balance.P.S. Currently sustain and few outliners need a shaves here and there.

Competitive modes should be a matter of "The better player wins."

You and your misguided ilk have this nonsense view that is ACTUALLY toxic and dumbed down that "You need to out skill your opponent by 57.8976885% or the fight should be a perpetual and that's fair and what good PvP looks like."

Good PvP games do not look like the state GW2 is in now. Not even mediocre PvP games do not look like the state GW2 is in. This is some of the most hideous this game's PvP had ever been, only truly outdone by Chronomancer's Era and the Era where a team of five Cele Eles, while maybe not

the

full on meta comp, could get you in like the top 2% in PvP.

And yet despite this so called "better balance". Despite 2v2s and 3v3s introducing much demanded game modes, the population continues to precipitously decline. Masters of the Arena got a fraction of the viewership Mist Challengers did. NA's top 250 is frequently getting dangerously close to hitting gold 2, which is the median meaning top 250 is close to being 50% of the population.

Your superior "work for your kill" perma bunker meta isn't saving the game mode and it's still dying.

You write "better player wins" and then complain about that I want "You need to outskill your opponent...". XD I can't.In other words, you want a free kill without enemy being able to fight back, right? XD

In other, better PvP games the fight always ends in a victor. You don't have this problem where builds can endlessly reset to full HP over and over again. You send two complete noobs into a fight, the fight will end in a victor. You send two master professional player into a fight the fight eventually ends in a victor. They have offensive characters, defensive characters ranged kiting characters, even healing characters and they still don't consistent rot plaguing they game mode where there's tons of stuff that just cannot die without getting dog piled by multiple opponents at once because by design their self healing is superior to any one player's damage output.

Other PvP games have also better counterplay options in general and far less passive sustain like here...

those are the reasons

why you are here and not there

I'm NOT here any anymore. I only pop on the forums to express my opinion about how misguided everything regarding the megabalance has been.

[viquing.8254]

We already link vids about what old meta look like, now just let people get an opinion about what they prefer instead of spamming forum with "absolute truth" lol.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"viquing.8254" said:We already link vids about what old meta look like, now just let people get an opinion about what they prefer instead of spamming forum with "absolute truth" lol.

Cherry-picked videos that even then fail to show what you want them to show. We know.

But sure, lets also show them what the new meta looks like, shall we? Behold. The pinnacle of gameplay. The most skillful thing to happen all game. Synchronised dancing.

[avey.4201]

4 months, can cast every utility, and every skill on both weapon sets while they face tank zerk damage but can't down someone rezzing, or kill the downspatch is out nothings changed, auto target broken lately too, fixed? nahtime to let dead games die, dead companies too, anet can kiss my smol grey rump

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Let's be real here tho most of us aren't really regularly playing this game right? I mean were here hoping for it to improve if by some small chance/miracle or are most still logging in everyday?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Let's be real here tho most of us aren't really regularly playing this game right? I mean were here hoping for it to improve if by some small chance/miracle or are most still logging in everyday?

2 games a day keeps the will to play more away :)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Let's be real here tho most of us aren't really regularly playing this game right? I mean were here hoping for it to improve if by some small chance/miracle or are most still logging in everyday?

2 games a day keeps the will to play more away :)

Haha seriously? I'm not kidding that's actually what I do lol. Some nights i dont at all but nights i do that's right on.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Let's be real here tho most of us aren't really regularly playing this game right? I mean were here hoping for it to improve if by some small chance/miracle or are most still logging in everyday?

2 games a day keeps the will to play more away :)

Haha seriously? I'm not kidding that's actually what I do lol. Some nights i dont at all but nights i do that's right on.

same, gotta get that 10AP/day amIrite?

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"viquing.8254" said:We already link vids about what old meta look like, now just let people get an opinion about what they prefer instead of spamming forum with "absolute truth" lol.

Cherry-picked videos that even then fail to show what you want them to show. We know.

Did you want me to go for another 4 pages of yes/no ?

[mortrialus.3062]

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:We already link vids about what old meta look like, now just let people get an opinion about what they prefer instead of spamming forum with "absolute truth" lol.

Cherry-picked videos that even then fail to show what you want them to show. We know.

Did you want me to go for another 4 pages of yes/no ?

Your two's argument is like a perfect demonstration of how this meta plays and why it sucks.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:We already link vids about what old meta look like, now just let people get an opinion about what they prefer instead of spamming forum with "absolute truth" lol.

Cherry-picked videos that even then fail to show what you want them to show. We know.

Did you want me to go for another 4 pages of yes/no ?

Idk, you could try having actual arguments, thatd help your case.

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:We already link vids about what old meta look like, now just let people get an opinion about what they prefer instead of spamming forum with "absolute truth" lol.

Cherry-picked videos that even then fail to show what you want them to show. We know.

Did you want me to go for another 4 pages of yes/no ?

Idk, you could try having actual arguments, thatd help your case.No problem. I will write it as long as you want.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@UNOwen.7132 :"Ofc you can't link something that dont exit" => @UNOwen.7132 2020. When I say something about A vid I linked after. But somehow only people arguing against you have to prove something because you are the universal truth.

Sure, I concede that it exists. Assuming you are that Nium guy. You know.Where are yours ? It's fun talking about actual argument but if you can't prove you played carrying op class pre-patch, well at least give us your class played ratio. So we can see that you aren't another thief main like you wrote it while saying thief has the worst damage...

Mesmer isn't that far under many builds. But from someone who think that rev sustain is fine I haven't much hope.Yes, thats why it was literally not played at all in the MOTA or seen at all in the leaderboards. Mesmer is

totally

fine. No its really far under all other builds. But hey, somebody should tell Misha he couldve played Mesmer in the MotA because some random kitten said that Mesmer is "totally fine". I doubt you believe this rubbish yourself.Yeah it's not played in Mota, like DH wasn't played in At during HoT golden time but was over-present in leaderboard.I already explain why it wasn't in mota.Your subjective opinion concern only you, I already see plethora of people in game forum trying to make their view as universal truth. When I look the ladderboard pre-patch I see 40% thieves top 20. Sure it was much better lol.

You didnt. You saw as many thieves as you do now. Because thief is one of the few classes that havent changed much. But you saw all 9 classes, with multiple entries each, in the leaderboard. On the other hand, how many warriors and mesmers are in the top 100 now? Do we have the token 1 or 2 now, or is it still 0?No I don't see 4 thief/game like it was.

Pre-patch power mirage was viable, such a news, teach me with your high mesmer vision why we never saw it, even on leadderboard while now there is a least 1 top 100. This is factual data but you somehow can't accept it.

We saw power core Mesmer, even in AT finals. Power Mirage wasnt played as much because it was honestly just outclassed. But we did also see a power mirage on the leaderboard. On the other hand, do tell me who that power mirage in the top 100 is. Because I doubt there is one.Lol, it was a meme and wasn't pre-patch at all but way before. Last season around 70th.

I'm pretty dishonnest liking vids of me prepatch, can we see you now or you are too afraid everyone see your rating, builds or opponents ?

Strawman. Nice. Guess being dishonest is just second nature to you. No, what was dishonest is that you linked a thief with 25 might stacks, said that he did 14k damage when he did 11k damage, and then acted as if that damage was the norm rather than the extreme exception.And the said thief had a HUDGE setup to get this 25 might, and weakness application. Ho wait ... No, he just push 3 buttons. :D

About bot, launching a rupt during a keyskill or bursting after a temporisation IS established or predictable pattern.

What does the bot do about rotations? What does it do when multiple players are around it? With builds it cant actually see or know? It can never be as good as a player. Well, not with the current level of technology at least. For that matter, it cant even handle switchups in rotations well. Prior to the patch the bots struggled, as people carefully timed their skills and had to setup whatever they did. Which meant a lot of variations in gameplay. Too much for a shoddily written bot to handle. Now that that is out of the window and people just use everything off cd, its much more predictable and as a result, much easier for the bot to handle.You are saying that skill is about wining a fight in even number and now you come back about bot rotation ? hmm not logic."People carefully timed their skills before the patch", lmao, thanks for this sentence, you make my day.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"PLS.4095" said:

just because the old meta, which was high-skill and punished mistakes

loooooooolUNOwen, the new Genius !

Im always amused by people who find the truth funny. Do they just find everything funny? Is the truth something they see so rarely they cant help but laugh when they see it?

Oh, no no, we're amused by you and other poeple that believe that "old meta was high-skill" thingie, it's hilarious to say the least.

So youre finding the truth funny. Im not sure why youre saying "no" and then reaffirm what Ive stated. Is this a weird roundabout way of doing the reverse of the "well yes, but actually no" meme? In that case, you need new material.I find it pretty funny yeah too yeah.

Thank you for giving me such entertainment with your biased posts, it's really fun to read them and others, though sadly I don't have enough popcorn.

I guess if youre biased, any objective viewpoint seems biased to you.I guess that people thinking they are objective seems to spam endless post on forums. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

You people have an akward belief that 'High damage' that was shoved through our throats was "intended and healthy for the game", which is a lie, because giving such big boost to damage/sustain to a lot of skills promoted spamming and cheese mentality into oblivion.

Ah, the same nonsense as always. Lets dissect it, shall we? First the "giving such big boosts to damage/sustain". People like to say this a lot, but here is the funny thing. Thats not the case. If you look back at GW2s history, both damage and sustain were pretty much always about as high as pre-patch, just at different times. We had the dreadful Cele Ele/Engineer meta, which is basically like the current meta but at least with skill involved. Damage-wise, the D/P thief people complained about pre-patch was just pre-HoT thief, but significantly weaker. In fact, what is a lie is the belief that the damage we have now is "intended and healthy for the game." Its not. Quite the opposite, the damage right now is

by far

lower than it has ever been in the entire history of the game. Even pre-specialisation patch damage was way higher.Just play the game, out of condi rev we aren't in a unkillable meta at all.Now, the second part. "Promoted spamming and cheese mentality into oblivion". Equally popular, equally wrong. One could look at gaming in general, seeing that across all genres and all metas, the spammy ones are inevitably the ones with low damage, while high damage games and metas never are spammy. But sure, lets entertain the extremely unlikely, but

theoretically

possible notion that GW2 is just a very unique exception. Lets look at it logically then. So, you argue that damage pre-patch was way too high. Sure, you could argue that. But then logically we should see the top players at the highest level always immediately die or kill, and we wouldnt see any longer fights. Of course, that didnt happen. Thats why you amend your argument to "Well defensive tools were around that let you counteract damage". Ok, that is also valid.

But with those 2 in minds, you argue that the game was "spammy". Failing to notice the

giant

contradiction there. If there were defensive tools that let you counteract offensive ones easily, then what would happen if you spammed? Well, easy, the enemy uses his defensive tools, you waste all of your damage, and he kills you on the crackback. Which however means that its not spammy, because spam is ineffective. Now, to someone who may be familiar with more games, this is not surprising. Spammy metas are always low-damage metas, where there is no reason to hold back or time skills.Killing a guy by spamming 2 clics (with the possibility of spamming 5) or with 5 clics didn't make the 2 clics less brainless you know.Not only the damage was too high but also the number of effects from many skills were way to high, which complety destroy other way to play.

True, it falsely made the game "fast paced", but in reality it dumbed down skill required to be effective, because every skill was hitting for a lot of damage, even defensive ones were overstacked with effects, which even more dumbed down combat. In my case, thanks to powercreep I've got worse compared to core, since I've stopped caring about a lot of stuff around me and even I was falling asleep from boredom while playing certain classes at any given time.

If every skill hits for a lot of damage, and defensive cooldowns were very powerful, how does that dumb down skill? After all, that means you have to carefully navigate through their cooldowns while maximising usage of your cooldowns. That sounds very skillful, its no surprise of course, that

is

the standard of all skillful genres. MOBAs, Fighting Games, arena brawlers, and indeed even MMOs.If every skills hits does a lot of damage and defensive cooldowns were very powerful, class specificity disapear and everyone end playing the same class. Give me another MMos with suposed good PvP were player die in 4 sec please, I'm pretty curious.

Another thing, this game is not Osu! or Muse Dash or any high-reaction time required game, it's a MMORPG, meaning internet connection is important factor in the outcome of battles as well. Before big patch there were instances when you could go 100-0 from stealth before enemy model even rendered on the screen, high burst from stealth still happens, but not to this degree.

Uh, you do know that almost all high-reaction games are online multiplayer, right? CS:GO, any fighting game, League, etc. Ping will always suck, you shouldnt dumb down and lower the skill of your game just to make sure that even those who have to play with major delay are at no disadvantage at all. On a sidenote, you still need low ping sometimes, for the one exciting and skillful thing that happens in games. Interrupting glyphs. Yeah its a bad sign when

that

is the highlight of the MOTA.Which aren't MMo, If I want this type of gameplay I go to theses games.

Another thingie: High Damage Skill = Big Shiny Animation Effect + Cast time(atleast >1s) = minimum 10~20s cd; otherwise if high damage skills have almost none animatio n or it's below 1s cast time, it's cooldown should be minimum of 40s atleast. You should work for your kill, it shouldn't be given for free because you facerolled on keyboard like that was the case on pre-balance.

Except that

wasnt

the case on pre-balance. If you facerolled on your keyboard the enemy 100% of the time lived, and then you 100% of the time died. You

never

got any kills for free unless the enemy was terrible. You had to work for your kill. Unlike right now, where the only time you get a kill is when youre outnumbering them, which you obviously didnt work for. Its also funny that you think high cooldowns improves the game in any way. Here is the thing: Increasing cooldown doesnt make the game more interesting or tactical, it just means there are larger periods of time where youre just waiting for cooldowns while slapping them with autos.Lol, Go back to the vid, see the "hard work" to get kill. It's just target, count the evade, burst then switch to next target should the burst fail or not. Such fun.

P.S. Currently sustain and few outliners need a shaves here and there.

As I have explained, you will have to keep shaving healing everywhere until the meta goes from low-skill as it is right now, to

extremely

low-skill, as everyone just swaps to instant or near-instant cast skills to spam at the enemy because the damage will stick. It aint the solution. What we need is more damage. Right now damage is far lower than it has ever been in the games history, and with the current meta, we see why the damage was always higher before, because this meta is just Cele Ele meta, but way worse.The meta was carrying and lowskill.

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Your superior "work for your kill" perma bunker meta isn't saving the game mode and it's still dying.Because you objectively thinks that it wasn't dying prepatch and it was enjoyable ?Mean we should had a mota prepatch and after patch just for loling comparison.

[mortrialus.3062]

@"mortrialus.3062" said:Your superior "work for your kill" perma bunker meta isn't saving the game mode and it's still dying.Because you objectively thinks that it wasn't dying prepatch and it was enjoyable ?Mean we should had a mota prepatch and after patch just for loling comparison.

And you think megabalance saved it?