Do You Find The Game More Fun To Play Now Or Before Revamp

[UNOwen.7132]

@"viquing.8254" said:Yeah and you are objectivity's incarnation.

Compared to you? Certainly.

If old meta was so good then didn't even need to do a rework.

Correct. It didnt. I hope you didnt make the assumption "they changed it, so that must mean that change was neccessary", because I could write a book about all the unneccessary changes all kinds of online games have made just in the past decade alone. "Change for the sake of change" is the name of the game.

Even if I'm a minority, you, like other people posting here can't speak for the community because there is part of this community who disagre with the game you ty to impose to everyone.

There will always be a part of the community that disagrees. The question is, are they the majority, or the minority? You cant ever please everyone. So instead your goal should be to please as many people as possible. Evidently these patches failed to accomplish it, and instead rather did the opposite.

About old meta if you even played risky build during this time, give proof if you have time because I really start doubting about your activity during this time, (mean at least I appear on top stream game for my part), you should notice than few class had life saving autoproc in their build. Strangely there were overepresented. But prepatch representation was probably fine for you.

First of all, most classes have a "life saving autoproc" in their traitlines. Second of all, they werent neccessary. I mean hell, lets take a look, shall we? When it comes to the most common classes pre-patch, it was primarily thief (1 in every team. Shortbow 5 is overpowered), Weaver (perhaps surprisingly to some), Firebrand, Herald, Spellbreaker, Holosmith, Ranger and Mirage.

Now then, how many of them used "life saving autoprocs"? Well, thief technically had one, but its in the acrobatics traitline. No thief used the acrobatics traitline. It wasnt used. Well, what about Weaver? Had one in Earth, technically. It was not used. Firebrand? Technically valorous defense, but its pretty bad, and valor was usually not used. Herald? Hasnt had such a trait since 2018. Spellbreaker? Has such a trait in the defense traitline. People stopped using the defense traitline. Holosmith? Actually has and uses Emergency Elixir E. Its not as good as some of the others, but it counts. Ranger? Had 2, 1 in Marksmanship, 1 in Soulbeast. Neither was used. And finally, Mirage. Had Desperate Decoy, not used.

So, guess what? Turns out the builds with "life saving autoprocs" in them were not just not overrepresented, they were underrepresented. Only one build used one, and it was not even one of the top 5 most common builds. All the other ones didnt use them. And yet they didnt just die. Guess why? Because you needed to make a mistake to get hit hard.

Seems skill = gutting 40% life per skill while having easy life safer for some people.

Do you even read what you write? Those 2 statements contradict each other. Either you can just do a ton of damage and the enemy cant do anything, or youre safe. Both cant be true at the same time. But thats because youre wrong entirely. The truth is, some skills did hit hard, but they were telegraphed and avoidable. All builds were "safe" in the sense that if you didnt make mistakes, you didnt take much damage.

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"viquing.8254" said:Yeah and you are objectivity's incarnation.

Compared to you? Certainly.Throw me more ego please I eat it every breakfast.

If old meta was so good then didn't even need to do a rework.

Correct. It didnt. I hope you didnt make the assumption "they changed it, so that must mean that change was neccessary", because I could write a book about all the unneccessary changes all kinds of online games have made just in the past decade alone. "Change for the sake of change" is the name of the game.Yeah a meta with 30% thieves, 20% rev, some nec and few other is totally a good meta.

Even if I'm a minority, you, like other people posting here can't speak for the community because there is part of this community who disagre with the game you ty to impose to everyone.

There will always be a part of the community that disagrees. The question is, are they the majority, or the minority? You cant ever please everyone. So instead your goal should be to please as many people as possible. Evidently these patches failed to accomplish it, and instead rather did the opposite.You can try to make it an evidence as long as you want you will never have real activity statisti, on speculation that you can manipulate trying to be right.

About old meta if you even played risky build during this time, give proof if you have time because I really start doubting about your activity during this time, (mean at least I appear on top stream game for my part), you should notice than few class had life saving autoproc in their build. Strangely there were overepresented. But prepatch representation was probably fine for you.

First of all, most classes have a "life saving autoproc" in their traitlines. Second of all, they werent neccessary. I mean hell, lets take a look, shall we? When it comes to the most common classes pre-patch, it was primarily thief (1 in every team. Shortbow 5 is overpowered), Weaver (perhaps surprisingly to some), Firebrand, Herald, Spellbreaker, Holosmith, Ranger and Mirage.

Now then, how many of them used "life saving autoprocs"? Well, thief technically had one, but its in the acrobatics traitline. No thief used the acrobatics traitline. It wasnt used. Well, what about Weaver? Had one in Earth, technically. It was not used. Firebrand? Technically valorous defense, but its pretty bad, and valor was usually not used. Herald? Hasnt had such a trait since 2018. Spellbreaker? Has such a trait in the defense traitline. People stopped using the defense traitline. Holosmith? Actually has and uses Emergency Elixir E. Its not as good as some of the others, but it counts. Ranger? Had 2, 1 in Marksmanship, 1 in Soulbeast. Neither was used. And finally, Mirage. Had Desperate Decoy, not used.You certainly never played burst build, thanks for the hint.So, guess what? Turns out the builds with "life saving autoprocs" in them were not just not overrepresented, they were

underrepresented

. Only one build used one, and it was not even one of the top 5 most common builds. All the other ones didnt use them. And yet they didnt just die. Guess why? Because you needed to make a mistake to get hit hard.

Seems skill = gutting 40% life per skill while having easy life safer for some people.

Do you even read what you write? Those 2 statements

contradict each other

. Either you can just do a ton of damage and the enemy cant do anything, or youre safe. Both cant be true at the same time. But thats because youre wrong entirely. The truth is, some skills did hit hard, but they were telegraphed and avoidable. All builds were "safe" in the sense that if you didnt make mistakes, you didnt take much damage.It was prepatch this is why this mess had to go out.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Yeah and you are objectivity's incarnation.

Compared to you? Certainly.Throw me more ego please I eat it every breakfast.

"Ego". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

If old meta was so good then didn't even need to do a rework.

Correct. It didnt. I hope you didnt make the assumption "they changed it, so that must mean that change was neccessary", because I could write a book about all the unneccessary changes all kinds of online games have made just in the past decade alone. "Change for the sake of change" is the name of the game.Yeah a meta with 30% thieves, 20% rev, some nec and few other is totally a good meta.

The meta was 20% thief, just as it is literally right now. Thats has nothing to do with the "meta". As long as shortbow 5 exists, thief will always be 20%. Actually, now that I look at it, its funny. Youre not describing the old meta (Necro was quite uncommon, and Rev was not that common either). Youre describing the current meta. Well, at least you unwittingly admitted that the meta is garbage.

Even if I'm a minority, you, like other people posting here can't speak for the community because there is part of this community who disagre with the game you ty to impose to everyone.

There will always be a part of the community that disagrees. The question is, are they the majority, or the minority? You cant ever please everyone. So instead your goal should be to please as many people as possible. Evidently these patches failed to accomplish it, and instead rather did the opposite.You can try to make it an evidence as long as you want you will never have real activity statisti, on speculation that you can manipulate trying to be right.

Im sorry that reality doesnt align with what you want to be true. But Im not "manipulating" anything. This is just old, commonly known fact. You can look up the studies if you want, though I know you wont.

About old meta if you even played risky build during this time, give proof if you have time because I really start doubting about your activity during this time, (mean at least I appear on top stream game for my part), you should notice than few class had life saving autoproc in their build. Strangely there were overepresented. But prepatch representation was probably fine for you.

First of all, most classes have a "life saving autoproc" in their traitlines. Second of all, they werent neccessary. I mean hell, lets take a look, shall we? When it comes to the most common classes pre-patch, it was primarily thief (1 in every team. Shortbow 5 is overpowered), Weaver (perhaps surprisingly to some), Firebrand, Herald, Spellbreaker, Holosmith, Ranger and Mirage.

Now then, how many of them used "life saving autoprocs"? Well, thief technically had one, but its in the acrobatics traitline. No thief used the acrobatics traitline. It wasnt used. Well, what about Weaver? Had one in Earth, technically. It was not used. Firebrand? Technically valorous defense, but its pretty bad, and valor was usually not used. Herald? Hasnt had such a trait since 2018. Spellbreaker? Has such a trait in the defense traitline. People stopped using the defense traitline. Holosmith? Actually has and uses Emergency Elixir E. Its not as good as some of the others, but it counts. Ranger? Had 2, 1 in Marksmanship, 1 in Soulbeast. Neither was used. And finally, Mirage. Had Desperate Decoy, not used.You certainly never played burst build, thanks for the hint.

"You completely refuted my argument and made it clear how utterly wrong I was and I dont have any response, but I cant admit that I was wrong. I know, Ill try to deflect with an ad hominem that has nothing to do with anything". No, I did play burst builds. Unlike you, I know none of them ever used auto proc lifesaving traits. As I said, most of them had been phased out or dropped entirely. Engineer was legitimately the only majorly played class using them.

So, guess what? Turns out the builds with "life saving autoprocs" in them were not just not overrepresented, they were

underrepresented

. Only one build used one, and it was not even one of the top 5 most common builds. All the other ones didnt use them. And yet they didnt just die. Guess why? Because you needed to make a mistake to get hit hard.

Seems skill = gutting 40% life per skill while having easy life safer for some people.

Do you even read what you write? Those 2 statements

contradict each other

. Either you can just do a ton of damage and the enemy cant do anything, or youre safe. Both cant be true at the same time. But thats because youre wrong entirely. The truth is, some skills did hit hard, but they were telegraphed and avoidable. All builds were "safe" in the sense that if you didnt make mistakes, you didnt take much damage.It was prepatch this is why this mess had to go out.

Ok, I see you dont. No, it wasnt pre-patch, because it being pre-patch does not mean that the contradiction goes away. The truth is that you clearly havent got the faintest clue about the pre-patch meta, or anything related to it. What youre thinking of is an imaginary world that only exists inside your head. An imaginary world where the cognitive dissonance doesnt bother you, where the traits no one used were actually totally super common, where the gap between meta and non-meta builds was totally wide and not super narrow, where diversity was totally not way higher than it is right now. Im sorry, but reality doesnt care about your imaginary world.

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Yeah and you are objectivity's incarnation.

Compared to you? Certainly.Throw me more ego please I eat it every breakfast.

"Ego". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.It mean : I'm presuaded to know everything and I'm way better, stronger and anything than other.

"You completely refuted my argument and made it clear how utterly

wrong

I was and I dont have any response, but I cant admit that I was wrong. I know, Ill try to deflect with an ad hominem that has nothing to do with anything". No, I did play burst builds. Unlike you, I know none of them ever used auto proc lifesaving traits. As I said, most of them had been phased out or dropped entirely. Engineer was legitimately the only majorly played class using them.Thieves had more than 1 build, other class had either side effects from AI, either really easy to break burst with BS multiple effects.

Ok, I see you dont. No, it wasnt pre-patch, because it being pre-patch does not mean that the contradiction goes away. The truth is that you clearly havent got the

faintest

clue about the pre-patch meta, or anything related to it. What youre thinking of is an imaginary world that only exists inside your head. An imaginary world where the cognitive dissonance doesnt bother you, where the traits no one used were actually

totally

super common, where the gap between meta and non-meta builds was

totally

wide and not super narrow, where diversity was

totally

not way higher than it is right now. Im sorry, but reality doesnt care about your imaginary world.Yeah another superiority complex as you don't like ego, continue, continue.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Yeah and you are objectivity's incarnation.

Compared to you? Certainly.Throw me more ego please I eat it every breakfast.

"Ego". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.It mean : I'm presuaded to know everything and I'm way better, stronger and anything than other.

Then youre just using it incorrectly. I dont know everything, nor am I better than everyone. I do know more than you. But thats not a challenge.

"You completely refuted my argument and made it clear how utterly

wrong

I was and I dont have any response, but I cant admit that I was wrong. I know, Ill try to deflect with an ad hominem that has nothing to do with anything". No, I did play burst builds. Unlike you, I know none of them ever used auto proc lifesaving traits. As I said, most of them had been phased out or dropped entirely. Engineer was legitimately the only majorly played class using them.Thieves had more than 1 build, other class had either side effects from AI, either really easy to break burst with BS multiple effects.

Incorrect. Thief at that point only had D/P and P/D. S/P existed, but D/P countered it, so no one played it anymore. Of course, you will have no trouble listing those "side effects from AI" or "Really easy to break burst". Of course, you cant. Because those dont exist. The simple truth is that people didnt have any major automatic defense in any of their builds. But they still didnt die easily. You know why? Because it was a meta of skill. If you skillfully avoided the enemies damage, well then you didnt take much.

Ok, I see you dont. No, it wasnt pre-patch, because it being pre-patch does not mean that the contradiction goes away. The truth is that you clearly havent got the

faintest

clue about the pre-patch meta, or anything related to it. What youre thinking of is an imaginary world that only exists inside your head. An imaginary world where the cognitive dissonance doesnt bother you, where the traits no one used were actually

totally

super common, where the gap between meta and non-meta builds was

totally

wide and not super narrow, where diversity was

totally

not way higher than it is right now. Im sorry, but reality doesnt care about your imaginary world.Yeah another superiority complex as you don't like ego, continue, continue.

"Superiority Complex". Now that is a word you definitely dont know the meaning of. No, me telling you that you are wrong, which you objectively are, is not a "superiority complex". Its simply telling you the truth. A truth you should accept sooner or later.

[viquing.8254]

Current meta : https://ibb.co/LktfPxx respectively backstab and shadow shot versus old meta link in the vid above.Dunno if you think we are in a tank meta because few class need tweak start playing other class, not everyone has perma protection or damage mitigation.So keep "your" truth for yourself please.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"viquing.8254" said:Current meta : https://ibb.co/LktfPxx respectively backstab and shadow shot versus old meta link in the vid above.

Yeah Im going to call shenanigans. For one, shadowshot does about 70% of backstabs damage, not 90%, and second, thats really high for current backstab, probably a bad full squishy build.

is the proper backstab damage. 3k-4k, tops. And of course, you still call back to the "old meta" but are so dishonest that you forget to mention that that damage was an extreme outlier caused by having 25 might stacks and the enemy having 9 vulnerability stacks and 5 conditions for exposed weakness.

Dunno if you think we are in a tank meta because few class need tweak start playing other class, not everyone has perma protection or damage mitigation.

I know we are in a tank meta because we simply are in a tank meta. Take a look again at the MOTA tournament. Tanks everywhere. You dont need perma protection, I mean hell, not even Holo uses much of it, or even damage mitigation. The damage right now is so pathetically low you are effectively a tank if you just have literally any sustain. Let me remind you of

montage. His builds barely have damage reduction, or none at all in the case of Power Rev. And still, he was basically unkillable, even in a 1v2. The damage simply wasnt there.

So no, its not " a few classes that need tweaks", its every one. There are 2 ways to proceed. First, drastically lower all healing including from healing skills so that damage sticks more.This would make killing without outnumbering possible, but would make the current low-skill meta even more low-skill. Or we admit it was a mistake and return damage so that mistakes can be punished and we go back to the high-skill meta we used to have.

So keep "your" truth for yourself please.

No. I will not let you lie and mislead and be overall dishonest, just because the old meta, which was high-skill and punished mistakes wasnt what you wanted, and you prefer the current low-skill meta where mistakes basically dont exist. Its not "my" truth. Its the truth.

[viquing.8254]

So no, its not " a few classes that need tweaks", its every one.Yeah let's tweak mesmer and warrior for exemple.There is ~4 class to tweak that's not even half of the 9.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"viquing.8254" said:

So no, its not " a few classes that need tweaks", its every one.Yeah let's tweak mesmer and warrior for exemple.

Those 2 obviously need tweaks. Tweaks in the forms of buffs. Theyre not going to be useful otherwise.

There is ~4 class to tweak that's not even half of the 9.

Nope. Even if we only look at meta classes, thats Necro, Rev, Engineer, Ranger, Ele, Firebrand. And thief, but thief is literally just shortbow 5, and theyre not gonna touch that.

But now lets think. Lets say you reduce their healing. Guess whats going to happen? They get replaced by the next classes. Damage remains far too low, and outnumbering remains the only way to kill anyone. So you nerf their healing. And soon enough, you will have nerfed everyones healing. And sure, you "fixed" the meta. Damage sticks. People die even without being outnumbered. But it gets even more low-skill than now. Both sides just spam at each other until someones healing runs out. Same lack of mistakes being punished, lack of timing and same faceroll spam as right now, but without even the macro element to make it interesting. In other words, you "fixed" the meta by breaking if further. Or, alternatively we admit this whole thing was a grave error, and go back to the good meta.

But just to hammer the point across of how much this meta sucks, the fact that the most exciting part of the MOTA finals was interrupting a res glyph, and the fact that the best clips Obindo had for his montage was either him stunbreaking a knockback so the enemy cant decap the point or him knocking an enemy off the point, while his montage had 0 cases of him killing anyone solo is a pretty bad sign. The sidenoder meta is knocking back, because no one ever dies unless outnumbered.

[viquing.8254]

Again Mota is a particular setup for coordinated. Plus considering there isn't every day, they obviously did want to take risks on squishy specs.In regular 5v5, even mAt it's not that tanky at all (apart for the few class that need tweaks.).

[UNOwen.7132]

@"viquing.8254" said:Again Mota is a particular setup for coordinated. Plus considering there isn't every day, they obviously did want to take risks on squishy specs.

You see that exact same set up in regular 5v5. The only advantage you gain from being coordinated is macro-related, but these builds get stronger against worse macro since, remember, you can only die if outnumbered. Also, if the "squishy" builds are as good or better, they would be played. We saw tournaments before, all the way up to worlds. There was no preference for tankier builds. If theyre good, squishy builds arent a risk. They picked the tanky builds because those are the meta.

In regular 5v5, even mAt it's not that tanky at all.

It is exactly as tanky. We saw MaTs, it was the exact same thing. Because as I said, the "tanky" builds arent tanky because they play a lot of damage reduction. They are tanky because damage is so pathetically low that having any sustain means youre practically unkillable. So what benefit would you have from playing a build without sustain? You wont be able to kill them obviously, the damage isnt there. However, they will just knock you off the point and decap. Or maybe they could even kill you if youre really "squishy".

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"viquing.8254" said:Again Mota is a particular setup for coordinated. Plus considering there isn't every day, they obviously did want to take risks on squishy specs.

You see that exact same set up in regular 5v5. The only advantage you gain from being coordinated is macro-related, but these builds get

stronger

against worse macro since, remember, you can only die if outnumbered. Also, if the "squishy" builds are as good or better, they would be played. We saw tournaments before, all the way up to worlds. There was no preference for tankier builds. If theyre good, squishy builds arent a risk. They picked the tanky builds because those are the meta.

In regular 5v5, even mAt it's not that tanky at all.

It is exactly as tanky. We saw MaTs, it was the exact same thing. Because as I said, the "tanky" builds arent tanky because they play a lot of damage reduction. They are tanky because damage is so pathetically low that having any sustain means youre practically unkillable. So what benefit would you have from playing a build without sustain? You wont be able to kill them obviously, the damage isnt there. However, they will just knock you off the point and decap. Or maybe they could even kill you if youre really "squishy".

If damage is low I shouldn(t get hit from 4 to 5k versus many class, the ability to die in 4 hit feel it's more about sustain on particular class than the opposite.Mean I just meet a grenade holo, saying he didn't does damage is pretty inacurrate.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Again Mota is a particular setup for coordinated. Plus considering there isn't every day, they obviously did want to take risks on squishy specs.

You see that exact same set up in regular 5v5. The only advantage you gain from being coordinated is macro-related, but these builds get

stronger

against worse macro since, remember, you can only die if outnumbered. Also, if the "squishy" builds are as good or better, they would be played. We saw tournaments before, all the way up to worlds. There was no preference for tankier builds. If theyre good, squishy builds arent a risk. They picked the tanky builds because those are the meta.

In regular 5v5, even mAt it's not that tanky at all.

It is exactly as tanky. We saw MaTs, it was the exact same thing. Because as I said, the "tanky" builds arent tanky because they play a lot of damage reduction. They are tanky because damage is so pathetically low that having any sustain means youre practically unkillable. So what benefit would you have from playing a build without sustain? You wont be able to kill them obviously, the damage isnt there. However, they will just knock you off the point and decap. Or maybe they could even kill you if youre really "squishy".

If damage is low I shouldn(t get hit from 4 to 5k versus many class, the ability to die in 4 hit feel it's more about sustain on particular class than the opposite.

4-5k for their strongest attack is very little. And sadly thats what it is. 4-5k from their strongest attack. Much less from the rest. The DPS is simply not there to kill anyone. As I said, thats why the sidenoder meta is knockback, even on classes that run little to no damage reduction.

Mean I just meet a grenade holo, saying he didn't does damage is pretty inacurrate.

Grenade Holo is probably the highest end damage build left. It still doesnt do enough damage. You saw Obindo fight explosive holo a few times. Despite his build having no damage reduction, he didnt even come close to dying. If you have literally any sustain, you dont die, not even to explosive holo. I mean, not surprising. 6k grenade barrage and then about 2k DPS, yeah that doesnt kill anyone. And thats the high end.

[Revolution.5409]

The bad players remained bad, before the patch the problem was the damage of the professions now they complain about CC and Bunkers.The problem has never been the previous Meta.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

Ben tried to warn us shit was going to suck.

[choovanski.5462]

I want to kill people with 8k bulls charge hurrr durrr

only then can I show my true skill as a gamer. with perma 25 might and an 8k bulls charge brrr

[Aeolus.3615]

@"HokenPWNZ.7628" said:PvP is broken and unenjoyable. ANET makes nobrain gaming with condispam and %classname focus first%"(3vs3)They must return us all stats(amulets) and remove gold for rankeds(make the bots useless)

very good point, maybe with this change they can try some weeks with the stats back to see what it happens.

note: i dont play meta builds,m i actually like to pvp testing several stats. :\

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

Before patch was better, result shows split community, but at least anet is fine they spend such less effort into the big patch and the follow up. Feels like a big slap into community face ... again, again and again. But for sure there will be a time where another game will come up with a gud combat system and a company behind which will take care so that we can leave the clownfiesta ?‍♂️?

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Again Mota is a particular setup for coordinated. Plus considering there isn't every day, they obviously did want to take risks on squishy specs.

You see that exact same set up in regular 5v5. The only advantage you gain from being coordinated is macro-related, but these builds get

stronger

against worse macro since, remember, you can only die if outnumbered. Also, if the "squishy" builds are as good or better, they would be played. We saw tournaments before, all the way up to worlds. There was no preference for tankier builds. If theyre good, squishy builds arent a risk. They picked the tanky builds because those are the meta.

In regular 5v5, even mAt it's not that tanky at all.

It is exactly as tanky. We saw MaTs, it was the exact same thing. Because as I said, the "tanky" builds arent tanky because they play a lot of damage reduction. They are tanky because damage is so pathetically low that having any sustain means youre practically unkillable. So what benefit would you have from playing a build without sustain? You wont be able to kill them obviously, the damage isnt there. However, they will just knock you off the point and decap. Or maybe they could even kill you if youre really "squishy".

If damage is low I shouldn(t get hit from 4 to 5k versus many class, the ability to die in 4 hit feel it's more about sustain on particular class than the opposite.

4-5k for their strongest attack is

very

little. And sadly thats what it is. 4-5k from their strongest attack. Much less from the rest. The DPS is simply not there to kill anyone. As I said, thats why the sidenoder meta is knockback, even on classes that run little to

no

damage reduction.

Mean I just meet a grenade holo, saying he didn't does damage is pretty inacurrate.

Grenade Holo is probably the highest end damage build left. It still doesnt do enough damage. You saw Obindo fight explosive holo a few times. Despite his build having no damage reduction, he didnt even come

close

to dying. If you have literally any sustain, you dont die, not even to explosive holo. I mean, not surprising. 6k grenade barrage and then about 2k DPS, yeah that doesnt kill

anyone

. And thats the high end.

Or you can open any stream, or facing any decent players and see that Holo isn't the only class with damage AND players die.Mean even on dead class like warrior : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/653316296?t=1h37m27s Ajaxx manage to kill a rev with little assist.Here is another example of nice fight : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/653316296?t=2h11m34sSo players didn't one shot each other, and while fighting he put the rev on 10% on his own. That's the kind of game I want to see, not a spam fiest trolll meta with people one shotting each other which greatly benefit to most mobile class.Btw looking at yours posts history, you just want to do easy kills on thief, this explain much.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Again Mota is a particular setup for coordinated. Plus considering there isn't every day, they obviously did want to take risks on squishy specs.

You see that exact same set up in regular 5v5. The only advantage you gain from being coordinated is macro-related, but these builds get

stronger

against worse macro since, remember, you can only die if outnumbered. Also, if the "squishy" builds are as good or better, they would be played. We saw tournaments before, all the way up to worlds. There was no preference for tankier builds. If theyre good, squishy builds arent a risk. They picked the tanky builds because those are the meta.

In regular 5v5, even mAt it's not that tanky at all.

It is exactly as tanky. We saw MaTs, it was the exact same thing. Because as I said, the "tanky" builds arent tanky because they play a lot of damage reduction. They are tanky because damage is so pathetically low that having any sustain means youre practically unkillable. So what benefit would you have from playing a build without sustain? You wont be able to kill them obviously, the damage isnt there. However, they will just knock you off the point and decap. Or maybe they could even kill you if youre really "squishy".

If damage is low I shouldn(t get hit from 4 to 5k versus many class, the ability to die in 4 hit feel it's more about sustain on particular class than the opposite.

4-5k for their strongest attack is

very

little. And sadly thats what it is. 4-5k from their strongest attack. Much less from the rest. The DPS is simply not there to kill anyone. As I said, thats why the sidenoder meta is knockback, even on classes that run little to

no

damage reduction.

Mean I just meet a grenade holo, saying he didn't does damage is pretty inacurrate.

Grenade Holo is probably the highest end damage build left. It still doesnt do enough damage. You saw Obindo fight explosive holo a few times. Despite his build having no damage reduction, he didnt even come

close

to dying. If you have literally any sustain, you dont die, not even to explosive holo. I mean, not surprising. 6k grenade barrage and then about 2k DPS, yeah that doesnt kill

anyone

. And thats the high end.

Or you can open any stream, or facing any decent players and see that Holo isn't the only class with damage AND players die.Mean even on dead class like warrior :

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/653316296?t=1h37m27s

Ajaxx manage to kill a rev with little assist.

You need to time videos better. The part where he kills a Rev happens about 10-20 seconds later. And surprise, surprise. Its only after he outnumbers the rev with the help of a thief that he can kill the rev, while the entire part prior to that was a dead draw. Its funny how you have the uncanny ability to find videos that disprove your own point.

Here is another example of nice fight : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/653316296?t=2h11m34sSo players didn't one shot each other, and while fighting he put the rev on 10% on his own. That's the kind of game I want to see, not a spam fiest trolll meta with people one shotting each other which greatly benefit to most mobile class.

And the rev immediately went back to 43%, and only died when, surprise surprise, he got outnumbered. Without that, the fight wouldve continued without a death for another 7 minutes. And we get it. You have 0 knowledge or understanding of the old meta. You were not good enough to understand that it wasnt a "one shot meta", and that it was a skill-ful timing based meta while the current one is a spam fest troll meta.

Btw looking at yours posts history, you just want to do easy kills on thief, this explain much.

Hardly. I havent played thief in ages. I do want thief to be a good duelist again, but even then it wouldnt be easy. But sure, if we go ad hominem, looking at everything you have written, you just want a skill-less meta because you keep making major mistakes and cant handle being actually punished for them. A high-skill meta was just too much for you.

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Again Mota is a particular setup for coordinated. Plus considering there isn't every day, they obviously did want to take risks on squishy specs.

You see that exact same set up in regular 5v5. The only advantage you gain from being coordinated is macro-related, but these builds get

stronger

against worse macro since, remember, you can only die if outnumbered. Also, if the "squishy" builds are as good or better, they would be played. We saw tournaments before, all the way up to worlds. There was no preference for tankier builds. If theyre good, squishy builds arent a risk. They picked the tanky builds because those are the meta.

In regular 5v5, even mAt it's not that tanky at all.

It is exactly as tanky. We saw MaTs, it was the exact same thing. Because as I said, the "tanky" builds arent tanky because they play a lot of damage reduction. They are tanky because damage is so pathetically low that having any sustain means youre practically unkillable. So what benefit would you have from playing a build without sustain? You wont be able to kill them obviously, the damage isnt there. However, they will just knock you off the point and decap. Or maybe they could even kill you if youre really "squishy".

If damage is low I shouldn(t get hit from 4 to 5k versus many class, the ability to die in 4 hit feel it's more about sustain on particular class than the opposite.

4-5k for their strongest attack is

very

little. And sadly thats what it is. 4-5k from their strongest attack. Much less from the rest. The DPS is simply not there to kill anyone. As I said, thats why the sidenoder meta is knockback, even on classes that run little to

no

damage reduction.

Mean I just meet a grenade holo, saying he didn't does damage is pretty inacurrate.

Grenade Holo is probably the highest end damage build left. It still doesnt do enough damage. You saw Obindo fight explosive holo a few times. Despite his build having no damage reduction, he didnt even come

close

to dying. If you have literally any sustain, you dont die, not even to explosive holo. I mean, not surprising. 6k grenade barrage and then about 2k DPS, yeah that doesnt kill

anyone

. And thats the high end.

Or you can open any stream, or facing any decent players and see that Holo isn't the only class with damage AND players die.Mean even on dead class like warrior :

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/653316296?t=1h37m27s

Ajaxx manage to kill a rev with little assist.

You need to time videos better. The part where he kills a Rev happens about 10-20 seconds later. And surprise, surprise. Its only after he outnumbers the rev with the help of a thief that he can kill the rev, while the entire part prior to that was a dead draw. Its funny how you have the uncanny ability to find videos that

disprove your own point

.Surprise surprise the rev didn't stay all the time at 90% HP. When he get +1 ing in the second link, he was at 10%. And this this with A WAR.

Here is another example of nice fight :

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/653316296?t=2h11m34s

So players didn't one shot each other, and while fighting he put the rev on 10% on his own. That's the kind of game I want to see, not a spam fiest trolll meta with people one shotting each other which greatly benefit to most mobile class.

And the rev immediately went back to 43%, and only died when, surprise surprise, he got outnumbered. Without that, the fight wouldve continued without a death for another 7 minutes. And we get it. You have 0 knowledge or understanding of the old meta. You were not good enough to understand that it wasnt a "one shot meta", and that it was a skill-ful timing based meta while

the current one

is a spam fest troll meta.In this second vid, even without the +1, the dev still die. No you were not good enough to understand than fighting is more than just burst and rotate.

Btw looking at yours posts history, you just want to do easy kills on thief, this explain much.

Hardly. I havent played thief in ages. I do want thief to be a good duelist again, but even then it wouldnt be easy. But sure, if we go ad hominem, looking at everything you have written, you just want a skill-less meta because you keep making major mistakes and cant handle being actually punished for them. A high-skill meta was just too much for you.A low skill meta where player just have to concentrate 10 sec every 30 sec mean nothing for me. But I understand that some people have concentration issue and fight with a higher duration time look kinda hard for them. So they just want an easy game where they can just burst and walk away.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Again Mota is a particular setup for coordinated. Plus considering there isn't every day, they obviously did want to take risks on squishy specs.

You see that exact same set up in regular 5v5. The only advantage you gain from being coordinated is macro-related, but these builds get

stronger

against worse macro since, remember, you can only die if outnumbered. Also, if the "squishy" builds are as good or better, they would be played. We saw tournaments before, all the way up to worlds. There was no preference for tankier builds. If theyre good, squishy builds arent a risk. They picked the tanky builds because those are the meta.

In regular 5v5, even mAt it's not that tanky at all.

It is exactly as tanky. We saw MaTs, it was the exact same thing. Because as I said, the "tanky" builds arent tanky because they play a lot of damage reduction. They are tanky because damage is so pathetically low that having any sustain means youre practically unkillable. So what benefit would you have from playing a build without sustain? You wont be able to kill them obviously, the damage isnt there. However, they will just knock you off the point and decap. Or maybe they could even kill you if youre really "squishy".

If damage is low I shouldn(t get hit from 4 to 5k versus many class, the ability to die in 4 hit feel it's more about sustain on particular class than the opposite.

4-5k for their strongest attack is

very

little. And sadly thats what it is. 4-5k from their strongest attack. Much less from the rest. The DPS is simply not there to kill anyone. As I said, thats why the sidenoder meta is knockback, even on classes that run little to

no

damage reduction.

Mean I just meet a grenade holo, saying he didn't does damage is pretty inacurrate.

Grenade Holo is probably the highest end damage build left. It still doesnt do enough damage. You saw Obindo fight explosive holo a few times. Despite his build having no damage reduction, he didnt even come

close

to dying. If you have literally any sustain, you dont die, not even to explosive holo. I mean, not surprising. 6k grenade barrage and then about 2k DPS, yeah that doesnt kill

anyone

. And thats the high end.

Or you can open any stream, or facing any decent players and see that Holo isn't the only class with damage AND players die.Mean even on dead class like warrior :

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/653316296?t=1h37m27s

Ajaxx manage to kill a rev with little assist.

You need to time videos better. The part where he kills a Rev happens about 10-20 seconds later. And surprise, surprise. Its only after he outnumbers the rev with the help of a thief that he can kill the rev, while the entire part prior to that was a dead draw. Its funny how you have the uncanny ability to find videos that

disprove your own point

.Surprise surprise the rev didn't stay all the time at 90% HP. When he get +1 ing in the second link, he was at 10%. And this this with A WAR.

I never said they would always stay at 90%? I said they wouldnt die. In the 7+ minute fight in MOTA, both players hit 10% a few times, but as you can tell by the way I called it, in 7+ minutes neither died. The only healthpoint that matters is the last one. The point is that in a 1v1, he wouldnt die, and the first video illustrates it beautifully because that fight went on for a while, the rev hasnt even used all his cooldowns, and it was clear there is no way in sight.

Here is another example of nice fight :

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/653316296?t=2h11m34s

So players didn't one shot each other, and while fighting he put the rev on 10% on his own. That's the kind of game I want to see, not a spam fiest trolll meta with people one shotting each other which greatly benefit to most mobile class.

And the rev immediately went back to 43%, and only died when, surprise surprise, he got outnumbered. Without that, the fight wouldve continued without a death for another 7 minutes. And we get it. You have 0 knowledge or understanding of the old meta. You were not good enough to understand that it wasnt a "one shot meta", and that it was a skill-ful timing based meta while

the current one

is a spam fest troll meta.In this second vid, even without the +1, the dev still die. No you were not good enough to understand than fighting is more than just burst and rotate.

Nope, he wouldnt. As I said, he was back up to 43% with healing incoming, his next defensive cooldowns being close to up, and the warriors offensive cooldowns being pretty depleted. Without the +1, the fight wouldve gone on for another agonising 7 minutes without a death. And no, you were not good enough to understand that the old meta was not at all "burst and rotate". If anything that describes the current meta more, where you outnumber, burst down, then move on to outnumber more. Because thats the only way you kill players.

Btw looking at yours posts history, you just want to do easy kills on thief, this explain much.

Hardly. I havent played thief in ages. I do want thief to be a good duelist again, but even then it wouldnt be easy. But sure, if we go ad hominem, looking at everything you have written, you just want a skill-less meta because you keep making major mistakes and cant handle being actually punished for them. A high-skill meta was just too much for you.A low skill meta where player just have to concentrate 10 sec every 30 sec mean nothing for me. But I understand that some people have concentration issue and fight with a higher duration time look kinda hard for them. So they just want an easy game where they can just burst and walk away.

Yes, we get it. You dont understand that the old meta was a high-skill meta, and the current meta is a super low-skill meta. You dont understand that the old meta wasnt "concentrate 10 seconds every 30 seconds", but long fights where mistakes are lethal. You dont understand that a 30 second fight where you have to think and time the entire time is far more skillful than a 7 minute fight where you turn off your brain, and just spam everything off cooldown while waiting for one of your teammates to outnumber you so you can kill the enemy.

I understand you have trouble with not making major mistakes which got you killed in the previous high-skill meta. So you just want an easy game where you can faceroll the keyboard, constantly make grave mistakes, and never die.

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"viquing.8254" said:Surprise surprise the rev didn't stay all the time at 90% HP. When he get +1 ing in the second link, he was at 10%. And this this with A WAR.

I never said they would always stay at 90%? I said they

wouldnt die

. In the 7+ minute fight in MOTA, both players hit 10% a few times, but as you can tell by the way I called it, in 7+ minutes neither died. The only healthpoint that matters is the last one. The point is that in a 1v1, he wouldnt die, and the first video illustrates it beautifully because that fight went on for a while, the rev hasnt even used all his cooldowns, and it was clear there is no way in sight.

Hmm seems like a turn back for you.If people go to 10% life, we aren't in a tank meta, or you never played a real tank meta.

In this second vid, even without the +1, the dev still die. No you were not good enough to understand than fighting is more than just burst and rotate.

Nope, he wouldnt. As I said, he was back up to 43% with healing incoming, his next defensive cooldowns being close to up, and the warriors offensive cooldowns being pretty depleted. Without the +1, the fight wouldve gone on for another

agonising

7 minutes without a death. And no, you were not good enough to understand that the old meta was not

at all

"burst and rotate". If anything that describes the current meta more, where you outnumber, burst down, then move on to outnumber more. Because thats the only way you kill players.Nop currently you have to take time to make the opponent :1) reach low life.2) +1 ing if you can't finish him.

Whereas before you just run with 3 +1 destroying everything in 20 sec or make people left points at view.

A low skill meta where player just have to concentrate 10 sec every 30 sec mean nothing for me. But I understand that some people have concentration issue and fight with a higher duration time look kinda hard for them. So they just want an easy game where they can just burst and walk away.

Yes, we get it. You dont understand that the old meta was a high-skill meta, and the current meta is a super low-skill meta. You dont understand that the old meta wasnt "concentrate 10 seconds every 30 seconds", but long fights where mistakes are lethal. You dont understand that a 30 second fight where you have to think and time the entire time is far more skillful than a 7 minute fight where you turn off your brain, and just spam everything off cooldown while waiting for one of your teammates to outnumber you so you can kill the enemy.There wasn't "long fight" there were people kitting 5 m around point because the damage were too high.If you think that Ajaxx in the vid "just spam everything off cooldown" to get the rev 10%hp, you will probably never progress in PvP. You should try WvW where you can get high spike thanks to gear&foods.I understand you have trouble with not making major mistakes which got you killed in the previous high-skill meta. So you just want an easy game where you can faceroll the keyboard, constantly make grave mistakes, and never die.I understand you don't have trouble playing thief in the last low-skill meta considering the ladder pre-patch. so you just want your easy kill back and feel strong.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Surprise surprise the rev didn't stay all the time at 90% HP. When he get +1 ing in the second link, he was at 10%. And this this with A WAR.

I never said they would always stay at 90%? I said they

wouldnt die

. In the 7+ minute fight in MOTA, both players hit 10% a few times, but as you can tell by the way I called it, in 7+ minutes neither died. The only healthpoint that matters is the last one. The point is that in a 1v1, he wouldnt die, and the first video illustrates it beautifully because that fight went on for a while, the rev hasnt even used all his cooldowns, and it was clear there is no way in sight.

Hmm seems like a turn back for you.If people go to 10% life, we aren't in a tank meta, or you never played a real tank meta.

In the cele ele meta, one of said cele eles dropping to 10% at any point was not unusual by any means. The problem, just like right now, is that they then heal up immediately, and you will keep fighting them for a few more minutes without ever killing them. A "tank" is just someone who doesnt die. Not someone who doesnt take damage. That would be inachievable anyway.

In this second vid, even without the +1, the dev still die. No you were not good enough to understand than fighting is more than just burst and rotate.

Nope, he wouldnt. As I said, he was back up to 43% with healing incoming, his next defensive cooldowns being close to up, and the warriors offensive cooldowns being pretty depleted. Without the +1, the fight wouldve gone on for another

agonising

7 minutes without a death. And no, you were not good enough to understand that the old meta was not

at all

"burst and rotate". If anything that describes the current meta more, where you outnumber, burst down, then move on to outnumber more. Because thats the only way you kill players.Nop currently you have to take time to make the opponent :1) reach low life.

You dont "take time" for this. You just kill time, and even then making them "reach low life" is meaningless, they immediately heal back up and youre back to square 1.

2) +1 ing if you can't finish him.

You have to +1 because no one can finish anyone without it. Again, you dont take time doing this.

Whereas before you just run with 3 +1 destroying everything in 20 sec or make people left points at view.

Once again, thats the current meta. Before you fought 1v1s and 2v2s and actually had them result in kills. You werent forced to wait for +1s, and hell, unlike now only the thief focused on +1ing, instead of literally everyone.

A low skill meta where player just have to concentrate 10 sec every 30 sec mean nothing for me. But I understand that some people have concentration issue and fight with a higher duration time look kinda hard for them. So they just want an easy game where they can just burst and walk away.

Yes, we get it. You dont understand that the old meta was a high-skill meta, and the current meta is a super low-skill meta. You dont understand that the old meta wasnt "concentrate 10 seconds every 30 seconds", but long fights where mistakes are lethal. You dont understand that a 30 second fight where you have to think and time the entire time is far more skillful than a 7 minute fight where you turn off your brain, and just spam everything off cooldown while waiting for one of your teammates to outnumber you so you can kill the enemy.There wasn't "long fight" there were people kitting 5 m around point because the damage were too high.

Yes, we know that in your fantasy land that was a thing that happened. Sadly in reality, it didnt. In reality, they didnt "kite around the point", they went on the point, fought, and if they lost (which mind you was actually a thing that happened) they either died, or disengaged and rotated elsewhere. Thats good. But no, there were long fights, they were the norm. 30 seconds to a minute fights on point before someone lost. Instead of 7+ minute fights where no one ever loses.

If you think that Ajaxx in the vid "just spam everything off cooldown" to get the rev 10%hp, you will probably never progress in PvP. You should try WvW where you can get high spike thanks to gear&foods.

I hate to tell you this, but that is pretty much what he did, barring any "out of range" considerations. But let me mention something more important. Take a look at what the Rev was doing. Which is making mistakes. He doesnt dodge any of the important skills and wastes his dodges for mobility twice. He misuses his glint heal barely getting anything out of it, and wastes his staff block and evade. And despite making this many critical mistakes, without a +1, he wouldnt have died. That should tell you everything about how low-skill the meta is. No wonder you like it.

I understand you have trouble with not making major mistakes which got you killed in the previous high-skill meta. So you just want an easy game where you can faceroll the keyboard, constantly make grave mistakes, and never die.I understand you don't have trouble playing thief in the last low-skill meta considering the ladder pre-patch. so you just want your easy kill back and feel strong.

Mate, if youre going to use an ad hominem because youve run out of actual arguments but dont want to admit that you were wrong the entire time, at least try a little bit harder? I didnt play Thief pre-patch. I played Core Grenade Engineer. Same thing as now, though I used slightly different traits and skills. But here is the thing. Thief pre-patch was still a +1. It kills just as easily now as it does before, because it only killed in +1s. Nothing changed for thief. So the ad hominem fails on 2 levels.

Fact is, the current meta as you can see by that Rev above is super low-skill. The previous meta was high-skill. You want to be like that rev. You want to be able to make countless mistakes (since you do) and never get punished for them. Thats the ultimate truth behind it. You want a low-skill meta. A meta that caters to players like you, players who keep making mistakes, wasting their dodges, wasting their defenses, mispositioning, failing to time or setup any of their own skills. You want a meta where the mistakes you keep making dont kill you, and the only way you get killed is when you get outnumbered. A meta where you can just faceroll on your keyboard without putting even the slightest thought into your gameplay and still succeed. Sadly for you, seems most players do not want a low-skill meta. Now its up to Anet to fix that.

[viquing.8254]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Surprise surprise the rev didn't stay all the time at 90% HP. When he get +1 ing in the second link, he was at 10%. And this this with A WAR.

I never said they would always stay at 90%? I said they

wouldnt die

. In the 7+ minute fight in MOTA, both players hit 10% a few times, but as you can tell by the way I called it, in 7+ minutes neither died. The only healthpoint that matters is the last one. The point is that in a 1v1, he wouldnt die, and the first video illustrates it beautifully because that fight went on for a while, the rev hasnt even used all his cooldowns, and it was clear there is no way in sight.

Hmm seems like a turn back for you.If people go to 10% life, we aren't in a tank meta, or you never played a real tank meta.

In the cele ele meta, one of said cele eles dropping to 10% at any point was not unusual by any means. The problem, just like right now, is that they then heal up immediately, and you will keep fighting them for a few more minutes without ever killing them. A "tank" is just someone who doesnt die. Not someone who doesnt take damage. That would be inachievable anyway.Which is not the case, I don't see a rev coming back from 10% to 100% HP in 2 sec apart if player don't how to stop attacking during infuse light.Then putting rev apart because I already state that he need some tweak, how many other class are able to come from 10% to full health in seconds huh ?

In this second vid, even without the +1, the dev still die. No you were not good enough to understand than fighting is more than just burst and rotate.

Nope, he wouldnt. As I said, he was back up to 43% with healing incoming, his next defensive cooldowns being close to up, and the warriors offensive cooldowns being pretty depleted. Without the +1, the fight wouldve gone on for another

agonising

7 minutes without a death. And no, you were not good enough to understand that the old meta was not

at all

"burst and rotate". If anything that describes the current meta more, where you outnumber, burst down, then move on to outnumber more. Because thats the only way you kill players.Nop currently you have to take time to make the opponent :1) reach low life.

You dont "take time" for this. You just kill time, and even then making them "reach low life" is meaningless, they immediately heal back up and youre back to square 1.Sure walking in a map instead of fighting is a way more efficient way to spend time. If you like running, WvW is one more time the best mode for you.

2) +1 ing if you can't finish him.

You

have

to +1 because no one can finish anyone without it. Again, you dont take time doing this.Play squish ranger vs squish mes vs squish thief vs squish gard vs squish reaper vs squish ele vs squish engi vs squish war. Show me how none of them :1) Take more than 30 sec to die of having to run away.2) Don't die if they stay in fight.

Apart few build THAT ARE BUILD that are problematics, you must only meet meta tank my poor, hopefully I'm always meeting diversity in my game because your game look so depressing. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Whereas before you just run with 3 +1 destroying everything in 20 sec or make people left points at view.

Once again, thats the

current

meta. Before you fought 1v1s and 2v2s and actually had them result in kills. You werent forced to wait for +1s, and hell, unlike now only the thief focused on +1ing, instead of

literally everyone

.Nop, I don't meet 2 thieves + 1 rev running around killing everything like it was the case pre-patch.

A low skill meta where player just have to concentrate 10 sec every 30 sec mean nothing for me. But I understand that some people have concentration issue and fight with a higher duration time look kinda hard for them. So they just want an easy game where they can just burst and walk away.

Yes, we get it. You dont understand that the old meta was a high-skill meta, and the current meta is a super low-skill meta. You dont understand that the old meta wasnt "concentrate 10 seconds every 30 seconds", but long fights where mistakes are lethal. You dont understand that a 30 second fight where you have to think and time the entire time is far more skillful than a 7 minute fight where you turn off your brain, and just spam everything off cooldown while waiting for one of your teammates to outnumber you so you can kill the enemy.There wasn't "long fight" there were people kitting 5 m around point because the damage were too high.

Yes, we know that in your fantasy land that was a thing that happened. Sadly in reality, it didnt. In reality, they didnt "kite around the point", they went on the point, fought, and if they lost (which mind you was

actually a thing that happened

) they either died, or disengaged and rotated elsewhere. Thats good. But no, there were long fights, they were the norm. 30 seconds to a minute fights on point before someone lost. Instead of 7+ minute fights where no one ever loses.

This :

is my fantasy land ?Highlight me the time where they were fighting on point please, I fail to see it. Sure they went on point, they take atomic damage and they come back fighting around. Dunno where you live but we haven't the same minutes.

If you think that Ajaxx in the vid "just spam everything off cooldown" to get the rev 10%hp, you will probably never progress in PvP. You should try WvW where you can get high spike thanks to gear&foods.

I hate to tell you this, but that is pretty much what he did, barring any "out of range" considerations. But let me mention something more important. Take a look at what the Rev was doing. Which is making mistakes. He doesnt dodge any of the important skills and wastes his dodges for mobility twice. He misuses his glint heal barely getting anything out of it, and wastes his staff block and evade. And despite making

this many critical mistakes

, without a +1, he wouldnt have died.

That

should tell you everything about how low-skill the meta is. No wonder you like it.Wait did you just write that timing is more important than rollface ? And with only rollface you didn't do anything ?Hint : it's the definition of skill.The difference is that before with rollface you could put high pressure with no efforts.

I understand you have trouble with not making major mistakes which got you killed in the previous high-skill meta. So you just want an easy game where you can faceroll the keyboard, constantly make grave mistakes, and never die.I understand you don't have trouble playing thief in the last low-skill meta considering the ladder pre-patch. so you just want your easy kill back and feel strong.

Mate, if youre going to use an ad hominem because youve run out of actual arguments but dont want to admit that you were wrong the entire time, at least try a

little bit

harder? I didnt play Thief pre-patch. I played Core Grenade Engineer. Same thing as now, though I used slightly different traits and skills. But here is the thing. Thief pre-patch was still a +1. It kills just as easily now as it does before, because it only killed in +1s. Nothing changed for thief. So the ad hominem fails on 2 levels.Mate, for the moment I link 2 to 3 times more prooves than you, about my ad hominem, It's not for you but for readers just to make them look at your post history just to get an idea of the hominem.Fact is, the current meta as you can see by that Rev above is super low-skill. The previous meta was high-skill. You want to be like that rev. You want to be able to make countless mistakes (since you do) and never get punished for them. Thats the ultimate truth behind it. You want a

low-skill

meta. A meta that caters to players like you, players who keep making mistakes, wasting their dodges, wasting their defenses, mispositioning, failing to time or setup any of their own skills. You want a meta where the mistakes you keep making dont kill you, and the only way you get killed is when you get outnumbered. A meta where you can just faceroll on your keyboard without putting even the

slightest

thought into your gameplay and still succeed. Sadly for you, seems most players do not want a low-skill meta. Now its up to Anet to fix that.It's not fact, it's your crappy opinion about skill.The only point I agree with you is that most players do not want a low-skill meta, neither a clic to win meta.