DPS meter policy needs to be revised

[Paladine.6082]

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Paladine.6082 said:

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

Your agreement is not needed, since the data was not considered personal by Anet in the first place (Unlike your E-mail, Contact Data, Address, Payment details, Password etc')

The reason why this statement is wrong is already explained in previous posts by @Paladine.6082 so I'm not going to repeat them. Feel free to read the thread.

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

Your agreement is not needed, since the data was not considered personal by Anet in the first place (Unlike your E-mail, Contact Data, Address, Payment details, Password etc')

The reason why this statement is wrong is already explained in previous posts by @Paladine.6082 so I'm not going to repeat them. Feel free to read the thread.

He said that it is illegal to look at the screen in online games. This is not an explanation.

I never said any such thing.

You said multiple times that sharing combat data is illegal because it is private information. To play online games and keep your combat data private you must disconnect players around you and/or turn off their monitors so they can't see you.

I said processing personal data without a legal basis such as consent is illegal. I never said anything about looking at the screen or disconnecting players around you. If you choose to play a game in a public space and others can see your screen that is entirely your fault and is not covered by law - so please stop conflating the issue with made up nonsense.

[Fallesafe.5932]

The armchair-lawyer cringe is reaching dangerous levels in here..

[TheRandomGuy.7246]

@Paladine.6082 said:I said processing personal data without a legal basis such as consent is illegal. I never said anything about looking at the screen or disconnecting players around you. If you choose to play a game in a public space and others can see your screen that is entirely your fault and is not covered by law - so please stop conflating the issue with made up nonsense.

If combat data is personal information then all online games are illegal.If combat data is not personal information then whole law thing is irrelevant.

[Awaltir.5302]

Mental gymnastic in this thread are reaching var above cringe level. Someone already said in this thread and he was right. Signing EULA makes data of you character ( and in this case also combat data) property of ArenaNet. This whole thread is ridiculous. Not to mention I could see this as valid discussion if arcdps was unproved. If anything arcdps eliminates some stigmas like necro being shit. I remember when some people during dungeon farming era made lfg based on Ap you have. I would rather have people judge other players by their performance than things that don't really affects gameplay. I also pug very often and I have never seen someone to ostracize roles of classes that are non meta ( like auramancer) . On the other hand if you enter lfg and don't state what is your role and get kicked after this is also problem of communication on your part.

[Feanor.2358]

@Panda.1967 said:

@Coulter.2315 said:

@Panda.1967 said:

In other MMOs classes have defined roles, Tanks and Healers are accepted to not need to deal high damage. People don't question your DPS when you're not on a DPS class in those games. Here however, the game was designed to not have roles and not need roles, but at the same time was designed to allow for builds that fit into defined roles. Any class can play as a healer, tank, CC, or DPS. If I build for anything other than DPS, then my DPS is obviously going to be low. DPS meters have fueled the mentality of "DPS or bust", very few classes are given a break by the DPS meter community when it comes to this. If I'm on my elementalist I'm expected to be playing as a glass cannon with massive DPS, an expectation that I will not live up to on my elementalist, I run a support build. A DPS meter won't tell anyone that though. They will see that I'm an elementalist with Tempest elite spec and assume "Fresh Air DPS who's not even coming close to the 30k DPS benchmark, time to kick". The single focus "DPS or bust" outlook of a lot of the community is a problem that is fueled and exacerbated by DPS meters.

You could just tell the group you're support. This is just a communication problem, DPS eles are the norm and it is reasonable to assume you're DPS when you join as ele. Once people know you're in the tank/support role they just ignore your DPS like any other game.

I've tried. Do you know what the result was? "Tempests are only DPS, GFTO - Kick" or "Only Druid's are support, go DPS or GTFO - Kick" This happened EVERY SINGLE TIME. Even one time I got the response of "You're a DPS because I say your a DPS - Kick"

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Panda.1967 said:In other MMOs classes have defined roles, Tanks and Healers are accepted to not need to deal high damage. People don't question your DPS when you're not on a DPS class in those games. Here however, the game was designed to not have roles and not need roles, but at the same time was designed to allow for builds that fit into defined roles. Any class can play as a healer, tank, CC, or DPS. If I build for anything other than DPS, then my DPS is obviously going to be low. DPS meters have fueled the mentality of "DPS or bust", very few classes are given a break by the DPS meter community when it comes to this. If I'm on my elementalist I'm expected to be playing as a glass cannon with massive DPS, an expectation that I will not live up to on my elementalist, I run a support build. A DPS meter won't tell anyone that though. They will see that I'm an elementalist with Tempest elite spec and assume "Fresh Air DPS who's not even coming close to the 30k DPS benchmark, time to kick". The single focus "DPS or bust" outlook of a lot of the community is a problem that is fueled and exacerbated by DPS meters.

That is not true. If you're mesmer or druid in raids, people won't expect high dps (even if you can...)However they will expect you to know mechanics and know when to do support/tricks (mesmer) or heal (druid) etc.There's a few scenario where auramancer works well too.There are elite classes dedicated to support or healing now.

Thats part of the problem that's been created from DPS meters, there are more class the that can be support than just Ranger(Druid) and Mesmer(Chrono). But because X class can output 30k DPS with a glass cannon DPS build, it must always be DPS, even though it can be played as a very efficient support. This mentality only surfaced when DPS meters were approved. Yes, people were kicked because of assumptions regarding classes prior, but such incidents were far less common than the issues we see today.

Like, meta didn't exist before dps meters? Like. 4 tempests were never the standard dps for pugs despite the abysmal performance of your average pug tempest? Like, we never had "mes/warrior only" dungeon parties? Get real... DPS meters didn't create meta. If anything, they helped a lot in debunking common myths like "ele is the king of dps, if you're not ele you're trash". Meta is just the current "solution" to the game. It's the mathematically optimal way of play. As such, it always exists. And players always find it, and a part of them always adopt it, because that's how they play games. Trying to pinpoint that phenomenon on a specific tool in a specific game is like trying to pinpoint the cause of gravity on apples.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Awaltir.5302 said:Mental gymnastic in this thread are reaching var above cringe level. Someone already said in this thread and he was right. Signing EULA makes data of you character ( and in this case also combat data) property of ArenaNet. This whole thread is ridiculous. Not to mention I could see this as valid discussion if arcdps was unproved. If anything arcdps eliminates some stigmas like necro being kitten. I remember when some people during dungeon farming era made lfg based on Ap you have. I would rather have people judge other players by their performance than things that don't really affects gameplay. I also pug very often and I have never seen someone to ostracize roles of classes that are non meta ( like auramancer) . On the other hand if you enter lfg and don't state what is your role and get kicked after this is also problem of communication on your part.

This would work only if ArenaNet made an official acknowlegdement that they take full responsibility for ArcDPS, its further developement and they provide full time support for any damage caused by this tool, used by me or other players that monitor my account.

But ArenaNet says they take no such responsibility which meanwhile refusing me an option to not be a part of this tool because every player who monitors me even though I'm not agreeing on this, made the decision to share data from my client without my consent or in many cases even knowledge that I am being monitored. This is unfair situation, not only because arenanet wants to be legally free from any responsibility of consequences of using this tool but also they allow some players to be in advantage of me, because I have only option to believe them, they are using it in good faith, even though I'm not using this tool myself and never agreed in any part of GW2 documentation to use this or similar tools.

[Awaltir.5302]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Awaltir.5302 said:Mental gymnastic in this thread are reaching var above cringe level. Someone already said in this thread and he was right. Signing EULA makes data of you character ( and in this case also combat data) property of ArenaNet. This whole thread is ridiculous. Not to mention I could see this as valid discussion if arcdps was unproved. If anything arcdps eliminates some stigmas like necro being kitten. I remember when some people during dungeon farming era made lfg based on Ap you have. I would rather have people judge other players by their performance than things that don't really affects gameplay. I also pug very often and I have never seen someone to ostracize roles of classes that are non meta ( like auramancer) . On the other hand if you enter lfg and don't state what is your role and get kicked after this is also problem of communication on your part.

This would work only if ArenaNet made an official acknowlegdement that they take full responsibility for ArcDPS, its further developement and they provide full time support for any damage caused by this tool, used by me or other players that monitor my account.

But ArenaNet says they take no such responsibility which meanwhile refusing me an option to not be a part of this tool because every player who monitors me even though I'm not agreeing on this, made the decision to share data from my client without my consent or in many cases even knowledge that I am being monitored. This is unfair situation, not only because arenanet wants to be legally free from any responsibility of consequences of using this tool but also they allow some players to be in advantage of me, because I have only option to believe them, they are using it in good faith, even though I'm not using this tool myself and never agreed in any part of GW2 documentation to use this or similar tools.

I would really want to understand what is really your problem because from your post I did read ( wasn't studding everything in depth here because there are a few stances here that many people represent) But I assume it is that other people can read your combat data without your consent. If this is the case what is your problem except "muh data privacy" . This data is INFORMATION RECEIVED from client. It can't be used to charm you ( no one knows who you are in real life, you are known by ID you use ). This data can't be used to impersonate you. It can only be LITERALLY used to check if you are performing or under performing. If the case is you want to use non-meta or even low quality build you are free to use lfg to make your own lfg. I don't see any reason to make people unable to verify if no one lied in lfg and taking straws on whom is under performing just because feelings of I don't know what because I'm unable to empathize on which level does this hurt you if this is completely harmless.edit: fixed typo charmless to harmless

[Feanor.2358]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Awaltir.5302 said:Mental gymnastic in this thread are reaching var above cringe level. Someone already said in this thread and he was right. Signing EULA makes data of you character ( and in this case also combat data) property of ArenaNet. This whole thread is ridiculous. Not to mention I could see this as valid discussion if arcdps was unproved. If anything arcdps eliminates some stigmas like necro being kitten. I remember when some people during dungeon farming era made lfg based on Ap you have. I would rather have people judge other players by their performance than things that don't really affects gameplay. I also pug very often and I have never seen someone to ostracize roles of classes that are non meta ( like auramancer) . On the other hand if you enter lfg and don't state what is your role and get kicked after this is also problem of communication on your part.

This would work only if ArenaNet made an official acknowlegdement that they take full responsibility for ArcDPS, its further developement and they provide full time support for any damage caused by this tool, used by me or other players that monitor my account.

Why so? What's wrong with their current position on the topic?

[Rhanoa.3960]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Panda.1967 said:

@Coulter.2315 said:

@Panda.1967 said:

In other MMOs classes have defined roles, Tanks and Healers are accepted to not need to deal high damage. People don't question your DPS when you're not on a DPS class in those games. Here however, the game was designed to not have roles and not need roles, but at the same time was designed to allow for builds that fit into defined roles. Any class can play as a healer, tank, CC, or DPS. If I build for anything other than DPS, then my DPS is obviously going to be low. DPS meters have fueled the mentality of "DPS or bust", very few classes are given a break by the DPS meter community when it comes to this. If I'm on my elementalist I'm expected to be playing as a glass cannon with massive DPS, an expectation that I will not live up to on my elementalist, I run a support build. A DPS meter won't tell anyone that though. They will see that I'm an elementalist with Tempest elite spec and assume "Fresh Air DPS who's not even coming close to the 30k DPS benchmark, time to kick". The single focus "DPS or bust" outlook of a lot of the community is a problem that is fueled and exacerbated by DPS meters.

You could just tell the group you're support. This is just a communication problem, DPS eles are the norm and it is reasonable to assume you're DPS when you join as ele. Once people know you're in the tank/support role they just ignore your DPS like any other game.

I've tried. Do you know what the result was? "Tempests are only DPS, GFTO - Kick" or "Only Druid's are support, go DPS or GTFO - Kick" This happened EVERY SINGLE TIME. Even one time I got the response of "You're a DPS because I say your a DPS - Kick"

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Panda.1967 said:In other MMOs classes have defined roles, Tanks and Healers are accepted to not need to deal high damage. People don't question your DPS when you're not on a DPS class in those games. Here however, the game was designed to not have roles and not need roles, but at the same time was designed to allow for builds that fit into defined roles. Any class can play as a healer, tank, CC, or DPS. If I build for anything other than DPS, then my DPS is obviously going to be low. DPS meters have fueled the mentality of "DPS or bust", very few classes are given a break by the DPS meter community when it comes to this. If I'm on my elementalist I'm expected to be playing as a glass cannon with massive DPS, an expectation that I will not live up to on my elementalist, I run a support build. A DPS meter won't tell anyone that though. They will see that I'm an elementalist with Tempest elite spec and assume "Fresh Air DPS who's not even coming close to the 30k DPS benchmark, time to kick". The single focus "DPS or bust" outlook of a lot of the community is a problem that is fueled and exacerbated by DPS meters.

That is not true. If you're mesmer or druid in raids, people won't expect high dps (even if you can...)However they will expect you to know mechanics and know when to do support/tricks (mesmer) or heal (druid) etc.There's a few scenario where auramancer works well too.There are elite classes dedicated to support or healing now.

Thats part of the problem that's been created from DPS meters, there are more class the that can be support than just Ranger(Druid) and Mesmer(Chrono). But because X class can output 30k DPS with a glass cannon DPS build, it must always be DPS, even though it can be played as a very efficient support. This mentality only surfaced when DPS meters were approved. Yes, people were kicked because of assumptions regarding classes prior, but such incidents were far less common than the issues we see today.

Like, meta didn't exist before dps meters? Like. 4 tempests were never the standard dps for pugs despite the abysmal performance of your average pug tempest? Like, we never had "mes/warrior only" dungeon parties? Get real... DPS meters didn't

create

meta. If anything, they

helped

a lot in debunking common myths like "ele is the king of dps, if you're not ele you're trash". Meta is just the current "solution" to the game. It's the mathematically optimal way of play. As such, it always exists. And players always find it, and a part of them always adopt it, because that's how they play games. Trying to pinpoint that phenomenon on a specific tool in a specific game is like trying to pinpoint the cause of gravity on apples.

Players Created META!Players Created METERS!Players STANDARDIZE!These are all PLAYER DRIVEN! THEY ARE ALL GARBAGE!Optimal way of playing is nothing than a BIG JOKE!

[Crinn.7864]

The only information that is "yours" legally is1) data stored on your machine2) personal identity and financial things. (i.e. your name, age, credit card number)

Your characters and their actions are stored on ArenaNet's servers and are property of ArenaNet.ArcDps is a third party program and it's use is only the responsibility of those that use it.ArcDps only looks at the memory of the machine it's being run on, and as such is perfectly legal and is not invading your privacy.ArenaNet is not responsible for third party programs, even ones that interfere with their client. ArenaNet may choose to action players that use such programs, but they are still not liable for such programs.

@Paladine.6082 said:

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Paladine.6082 said:

@TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

@Paladine.6082 said:This information is not required for the game to function, there is no justifiable reason to broadcast this data without consent.

It is required for the game to function.

No it isn't - the server needs to know how much damage you have done to a mob, the client does not - the client needs to know whether or not the mob still has any HP left if yes, keep hitting it, if no, hits no longer do anything. The client has zero need to know what damage each individual person has done each hit to that mob. There is not even any specific reason why the usernames need to be attached to conditions in the client - it might be "nice to have" but it is certainly not required.

What about boons, conditions, animations, hp bars and so on? They don't matter too?

None of these have an impact on DPS unless they are on the mob. If a character needs to be animated to show they have used a specific skill that can be done without the client needing to know how much damage that skill has done - furthermore ALL of this data is received FROM THE SERVER so there is absolutely no reason why it cannot be anonymised. The server can tell each client that Player A used Skill X without telling each client that skill X resulted in a specific amount of damage. The server can send information to each client to say the Mob received X amount of damage so redraw the HP bar - without needing to say WHO caused that damage.

So again, there is no reason why the client cannot receive this data in a privacy respectful way.

I'd love to know how to play PvP without knowing how hard the enemy is hitting me for.

[Cynn.1659]

Just accept the fact that it was said by the devs themselves, that if you join party/squad you agree to have your combat data shared. There is no loophole that arc is using, deal with it, it's not going to change.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Paladine.6082 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Paladine.6082 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:this forum is a perfect example, i can see vesica tempestas.1563, this is not personal data.

It absolutely is personal data.

No it is not, it is a public identifier for an account, not a living person. If I sold my account to another person for example the account name would be the same, it is not a living person.

Can a living individual be identified from the data, or,

from the data and other information in yourpossession, or likely to come into your possession?Yes Go to question 2.

No

The data is not personal data for the purposes ofthe DPA

Incorrect - the username can be associated with a living person it is associated with you - even if you sell it it can still still be associated with a living person - just a different living person in that context and time but still only a single person. And given you are quoting the information from ICO (I am guessing given the reference to DPA) and the UK are under infringement proceedings from the European Commission for failing to correctly interpret 95/46/EC into UK law specifically one what is considered personal information, it hardly makes for a good source. The UK DPA is in breach of EU law lol.

Really, so every single post is displaying personal data is it mr paladine.6082. Your confused about public identifiers and forgetting about context.

oops data breach!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_European_Court_of_Justice

Difference is, I can choose to write this post and send it to public space. I have no control over ArcDPS sharing my DPS numbers. This is the difference.

Actually you do it’s called not grouping with others, since Anet already stated that consent is given as soon as you hit accept on party join/request.

Fun fact players should read the TOS since you don’t own your account or anything related to it, it also tells you what legally is defined as personal/private information since you know lawyers wrote up the TOS to comply with Local and international Laws but hey I know nobody ever reads the ToS or the Privacy Policy.

[Feanor.2358]

@Rhanoa.3960 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Panda.1967 said:

@Coulter.2315 said:

@Panda.1967 said:

In other MMOs classes have defined roles, Tanks and Healers are accepted to not need to deal high damage. People don't question your DPS when you're not on a DPS class in those games. Here however, the game was designed to not have roles and not need roles, but at the same time was designed to allow for builds that fit into defined roles. Any class can play as a healer, tank, CC, or DPS. If I build for anything other than DPS, then my DPS is obviously going to be low. DPS meters have fueled the mentality of "DPS or bust", very few classes are given a break by the DPS meter community when it comes to this. If I'm on my elementalist I'm expected to be playing as a glass cannon with massive DPS, an expectation that I will not live up to on my elementalist, I run a support build. A DPS meter won't tell anyone that though. They will see that I'm an elementalist with Tempest elite spec and assume "Fresh Air DPS who's not even coming close to the 30k DPS benchmark, time to kick". The single focus "DPS or bust" outlook of a lot of the community is a problem that is fueled and exacerbated by DPS meters.

You could just tell the group you're support. This is just a communication problem, DPS eles are the norm and it is reasonable to assume you're DPS when you join as ele. Once people know you're in the tank/support role they just ignore your DPS like any other game.

I've tried. Do you know what the result was? "Tempests are only DPS, GFTO - Kick" or "Only Druid's are support, go DPS or GTFO - Kick" This happened EVERY SINGLE TIME. Even one time I got the response of "You're a DPS because I say your a DPS - Kick"

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Panda.1967 said:In other MMOs classes have defined roles, Tanks and Healers are accepted to not need to deal high damage. People don't question your DPS when you're not on a DPS class in those games. Here however, the game was designed to not have roles and not need roles, but at the same time was designed to allow for builds that fit into defined roles. Any class can play as a healer, tank, CC, or DPS. If I build for anything other than DPS, then my DPS is obviously going to be low. DPS meters have fueled the mentality of "DPS or bust", very few classes are given a break by the DPS meter community when it comes to this. If I'm on my elementalist I'm expected to be playing as a glass cannon with massive DPS, an expectation that I will not live up to on my elementalist, I run a support build. A DPS meter won't tell anyone that though. They will see that I'm an elementalist with Tempest elite spec and assume "Fresh Air DPS who's not even coming close to the 30k DPS benchmark, time to kick". The single focus "DPS or bust" outlook of a lot of the community is a problem that is fueled and exacerbated by DPS meters.

That is not true. If you're mesmer or druid in raids, people won't expect high dps (even if you can...)However they will expect you to know mechanics and know when to do support/tricks (mesmer) or heal (druid) etc.There's a few scenario where auramancer works well too.There are elite classes dedicated to support or healing now.

Thats part of the problem that's been created from DPS meters, there are more class the that can be support than just Ranger(Druid) and Mesmer(Chrono). But because X class can output 30k DPS with a glass cannon DPS build, it must always be DPS, even though it can be played as a very efficient support. This mentality only surfaced when DPS meters were approved. Yes, people were kicked because of assumptions regarding classes prior, but such incidents were far less common than the issues we see today.

Like, meta didn't exist before dps meters? Like. 4 tempests were never the standard dps for pugs despite the abysmal performance of your average pug tempest? Like, we never had "mes/warrior only" dungeon parties? Get real... DPS meters didn't

create

meta. If anything, they

helped

a lot in debunking common myths like "ele is the king of dps, if you're not ele you're trash". Meta is just the current "solution" to the game. It's the mathematically optimal way of play. As such, it always exists. And players always find it, and a part of them always adopt it, because that's how they play games. Trying to pinpoint that phenomenon on a specific tool in a specific game is like trying to pinpoint the cause of gravity on apples.

Players Created META!Players Created METERS!Players STANDARDIZE!These are all PLAYER DRIVEN! THEY ARE ALL GARBAGE!Optimal way of playing is nothing than a BIG JOKE!

Optimal way of playing is a mathematical fact. And you cannot dictate on others what they find fun, despite the heavy usage of capital letters. But yeah, these are all player driven. That was my point. DPS meters have nothing to do with this.

[Anhellbro.7210]

we need offcial big dps metr so i can kick all nubs who AFK in dungeon or dooing 1 1 1 1 1 1 1

[Rhanoa.3960]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Rhanoa.3960 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Panda.1967 said:

@Coulter.2315 said:

@Panda.1967 said:

In other MMOs classes have defined roles, Tanks and Healers are accepted to not need to deal high damage. People don't question your DPS when you're not on a DPS class in those games. Here however, the game was designed to not have roles and not need roles, but at the same time was designed to allow for builds that fit into defined roles. Any class can play as a healer, tank, CC, or DPS. If I build for anything other than DPS, then my DPS is obviously going to be low. DPS meters have fueled the mentality of "DPS or bust", very few classes are given a break by the DPS meter community when it comes to this. If I'm on my elementalist I'm expected to be playing as a glass cannon with massive DPS, an expectation that I will not live up to on my elementalist, I run a support build. A DPS meter won't tell anyone that though. They will see that I'm an elementalist with Tempest elite spec and assume "Fresh Air DPS who's not even coming close to the 30k DPS benchmark, time to kick". The single focus "DPS or bust" outlook of a lot of the community is a problem that is fueled and exacerbated by DPS meters.

You could just tell the group you're support. This is just a communication problem, DPS eles are the norm and it is reasonable to assume you're DPS when you join as ele. Once people know you're in the tank/support role they just ignore your DPS like any other game.

I've tried. Do you know what the result was? "Tempests are only DPS, GFTO - Kick" or "Only Druid's are support, go DPS or GTFO - Kick" This happened EVERY SINGLE TIME. Even one time I got the response of "You're a DPS because I say your a DPS - Kick"

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Panda.1967 said:In other MMOs classes have defined roles, Tanks and Healers are accepted to not need to deal high damage. People don't question your DPS when you're not on a DPS class in those games. Here however, the game was designed to not have roles and not need roles, but at the same time was designed to allow for builds that fit into defined roles. Any class can play as a healer, tank, CC, or DPS. If I build for anything other than DPS, then my DPS is obviously going to be low. DPS meters have fueled the mentality of "DPS or bust", very few classes are given a break by the DPS meter community when it comes to this. If I'm on my elementalist I'm expected to be playing as a glass cannon with massive DPS, an expectation that I will not live up to on my elementalist, I run a support build. A DPS meter won't tell anyone that though. They will see that I'm an elementalist with Tempest elite spec and assume "Fresh Air DPS who's not even coming close to the 30k DPS benchmark, time to kick". The single focus "DPS or bust" outlook of a lot of the community is a problem that is fueled and exacerbated by DPS meters.

That is not true. If you're mesmer or druid in raids, people won't expect high dps (even if you can...)However they will expect you to know mechanics and know when to do support/tricks (mesmer) or heal (druid) etc.There's a few scenario where auramancer works well too.There are elite classes dedicated to support or healing now.

Thats part of the problem that's been created from DPS meters, there are more class the that can be support than just Ranger(Druid) and Mesmer(Chrono). But because X class can output 30k DPS with a glass cannon DPS build, it must always be DPS, even though it can be played as a very efficient support. This mentality only surfaced when DPS meters were approved. Yes, people were kicked because of assumptions regarding classes prior, but such incidents were far less common than the issues we see today.

Like, meta didn't exist before dps meters? Like. 4 tempests were never the standard dps for pugs despite the abysmal performance of your average pug tempest? Like, we never had "mes/warrior only" dungeon parties? Get real... DPS meters didn't

create

meta. If anything, they

helped

a lot in debunking common myths like "ele is the king of dps, if you're not ele you're trash". Meta is just the current "solution" to the game. It's the mathematically optimal way of play. As such, it always exists. And players always find it, and a part of them always adopt it, because that's how they play games. Trying to pinpoint that phenomenon on a specific tool in a specific game is like trying to pinpoint the cause of gravity on apples.

Players Created META!Players Created METERS!Players STANDARDIZE!These are all PLAYER DRIVEN! THEY ARE ALL GARBAGE!Optimal way of playing is nothing than a BIG JOKE!

Optimal way of playing is a mathematical fact. And you cannot dictate on others what they find fun, despite the heavy usage of capital letters. But yeah, these are all player driven. That was my point. DPS meters have nothing to do with this.

I'm not here for Mathematical FACTs. GW2 was not advertised, Here have fun with Math.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@Anhellbro.7210 said:we need offcial big dps metr so i can kick all nubs who AFK in dungeon or dooing 1 1 1 1 1 1 1

if you need a dps meter to figure this out, then you have problems bigger than the afk player.

[Nike Porphyrogenita.8137]

@Rhanoa.3960 said:

@"Nike Porphyrogenita.8137" said:The way immunizations work is you get a weaker strain of a disease in order to build up immunity to the powerful version.

For many years I've been reading awful threads on this forum in order to build up my tolerance for this day. Today is the day I read this thread and was subjected to the full power of toxic cancer.

I'm proud to report I'm fully immune to the genius level 500 iq ideas presented in this thread and have a clean bill of health.

www.deltaconnected.com

GET GOOD

Please SHOW ME WHERE exactly in the

RULES OF CONDUCT

specifically says anyone needs to "GET GOOD?"Show me Exactly where states this is how anyone should play any Profession?

Your so called metaphoric insult goes both ways.

Nice try but I am immune to cancer as I mentioned.

[Awaltir.5302]

@Rhanoa.3960 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Panda.1967 said:

@Coulter.2315 said:

@Panda.1967 said:

In other MMOs classes have defined roles, Tanks and Healers are accepted to not need to deal high damage. People don't question your DPS when you're not on a DPS class in those games. Here however, the game was designed to not have roles and not need roles, but at the same time was designed to allow for builds that fit into defined roles. Any class can play as a healer, tank, CC, or DPS. If I build for anything other than DPS, then my DPS is obviously going to be low. DPS meters have fueled the mentality of "DPS or bust", very few classes are given a break by the DPS meter community when it comes to this. If I'm on my elementalist I'm expected to be playing as a glass cannon with massive DPS, an expectation that I will not live up to on my elementalist, I run a support build. A DPS meter won't tell anyone that though. They will see that I'm an elementalist with Tempest elite spec and assume "Fresh Air DPS who's not even coming close to the 30k DPS benchmark, time to kick". The single focus "DPS or bust" outlook of a lot of the community is a problem that is fueled and exacerbated by DPS meters.

You could just tell the group you're support. This is just a communication problem, DPS eles are the norm and it is reasonable to assume you're DPS when you join as ele. Once people know you're in the tank/support role they just ignore your DPS like any other game.

I've tried. Do you know what the result was? "Tempests are only DPS, GFTO - Kick" or "Only Druid's are support, go DPS or GTFO - Kick" This happened EVERY SINGLE TIME. Even one time I got the response of "You're a DPS because I say your a DPS - Kick"

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Panda.1967 said:In other MMOs classes have defined roles, Tanks and Healers are accepted to not need to deal high damage. People don't question your DPS when you're not on a DPS class in those games. Here however, the game was designed to not have roles and not need roles, but at the same time was designed to allow for builds that fit into defined roles. Any class can play as a healer, tank, CC, or DPS. If I build for anything other than DPS, then my DPS is obviously going to be low. DPS meters have fueled the mentality of "DPS or bust", very few classes are given a break by the DPS meter community when it comes to this. If I'm on my elementalist I'm expected to be playing as a glass cannon with massive DPS, an expectation that I will not live up to on my elementalist, I run a support build. A DPS meter won't tell anyone that though. They will see that I'm an elementalist with Tempest elite spec and assume "Fresh Air DPS who's not even coming close to the 30k DPS benchmark, time to kick". The single focus "DPS or bust" outlook of a lot of the community is a problem that is fueled and exacerbated by DPS meters.

That is not true. If you're mesmer or druid in raids, people won't expect high dps (even if you can...)However they will expect you to know mechanics and know when to do support/tricks (mesmer) or heal (druid) etc.There's a few scenario where auramancer works well too.There are elite classes dedicated to support or healing now.

Thats part of the problem that's been created from DPS meters, there are more class the that can be support than just Ranger(Druid) and Mesmer(Chrono). But because X class can output 30k DPS with a glass cannon DPS build, it must always be DPS, even though it can be played as a very efficient support. This mentality only surfaced when DPS meters were approved. Yes, people were kicked because of assumptions regarding classes prior, but such incidents were far less common than the issues we see today.

Like, meta didn't exist before dps meters? Like. 4 tempests were never the standard dps for pugs despite the abysmal performance of your average pug tempest? Like, we never had "mes/warrior only" dungeon parties? Get real... DPS meters didn't

create

meta. If anything, they

helped

a lot in debunking common myths like "ele is the king of dps, if you're not ele you're trash". Meta is just the current "solution" to the game. It's the mathematically optimal way of play. As such, it always exists. And players always find it, and a part of them always adopt it, because that's how they play games. Trying to pinpoint that phenomenon on a specific tool in a specific game is like trying to pinpoint the cause of gravity on apples.

Players Created META!Players Created METERS!Players STANDARDIZE!These are all PLAYER DRIVEN! THEY ARE ALL GARBAGE!Optimal way of playing is nothing than a BIG JOKE!

Definition of optimal

:most desirable or satisfactory :optimum the optimal use of class time the optimal dosage of medication for a patient conditions for optimal development

There will always be optimal way of doing things because if there is choice there will be one that give best result. Everything in mmo is fun when you do it with group of friends on few first time but then it becomes a chore. By that things there always will be optimal composition either you want it or not. Why do you think it is bad to give people the tool to verify if they joined your lfg with full implication ( ex. "we want meta builds") .

[Rhanoa.3960]

@Nike Porphyrogenita.8137 said:

@Rhanoa.3960 said:

@Nike Porphyrogenita.8137 said:The way immunizations work is you get a weaker strain of a disease in order to build up immunity to the powerful version.

For many years I've been reading awful threads on this forum in order to build up my tolerance for this day. Today is the day I read this thread and was subjected to the full power of toxic cancer.

I'm proud to report I'm fully immune to the genius level 500 iq ideas presented in this thread and have a clean bill of health.

www.deltaconnected.com

GET GOOD

Please SHOW ME WHERE exactly in the

RULES OF CONDUCT

specifically says anyone needs to "GET GOOD?"Show me Exactly where states this is how anyone should play any Profession?

Your so called metaphoric insult goes both ways.

Nice try but I am immune to cancer as I mentioned.

Self Disclosing your health condition is general not a good idea, measure your IQ on a Video Game should probably not be anyone's proudest moment.

[Coconut.7082]

@Rhanoa.3960 said:

@"Nike Porphyrogenita.8137" said:The way immunizations work is you get a weaker strain of a disease in order to build up immunity to the powerful version.

For many years I've been reading awful threads on this forum in order to build up my tolerance for this day. Today is the day I read this thread and was subjected to the full power of toxic cancer.

I'm proud to report I'm fully immune to the genius level 500 iq ideas presented in this thread and have a clean bill of health.

www.deltaconnected.com

GET GOOD

Please SHOW ME WHERE exactly in the

RULES OF CONDUCT

specifically says anyone needs to "GET GOOD?"Show me Exactly where states this is how anyone should play any Profession?

Your so called metaphoric insult goes both ways.

You won't find it in the GW2 RULES OF CONDUCT because it's a bigger, divine rule.Somewhat like the bible of the internet.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Cynn.1659 said:Just accept the fact that it was said by the devs themselves, that if you join party/squad you agree to have your combat data shared. There is no loophole that arc is using, deal with it, it's not going to change.

And I find a big flaw in current way policy is executed and I'm asking for the change. I never accepted that my account is going to be monitored by deltaconnected, arcdps or other players. If ArenaNet refuses taking responsibility for arcdps or deltaconnected actions, I should be able to cut myself from third party which I'm not interested in using.

If ArcDPS is flawless, safe tool, ArenaNet risks nothing acknowledging this tool in Game documents and ask me to accept them again if they take full responsibility and support me with every damage this tool may cause.

But they do not take this responsibility which means they are aware or suspect this tool to eventually cause problems which means, as a player of GW2 and active user of their services, they should allow me access to security measures that allow me to not allow my account being monitored by this tool without my consent.

[Rhanoa.3960]

@Awaltir.5302 said:

@Rhanoa.3960 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Panda.1967 said:

@Coulter.2315 said:

@Panda.1967 said:

In other MMOs classes have defined roles, Tanks and Healers are accepted to not need to deal high damage. People don't question your DPS when you're not on a DPS class in those games. Here however, the game was designed to not have roles and not need roles, but at the same time was designed to allow for builds that fit into defined roles. Any class can play as a healer, tank, CC, or DPS. If I build for anything other than DPS, then my DPS is obviously going to be low. DPS meters have fueled the mentality of "DPS or bust", very few classes are given a break by the DPS meter community when it comes to this. If I'm on my elementalist I'm expected to be playing as a glass cannon with massive DPS, an expectation that I will not live up to on my elementalist, I run a support build. A DPS meter won't tell anyone that though. They will see that I'm an elementalist with Tempest elite spec and assume "Fresh Air DPS who's not even coming close to the 30k DPS benchmark, time to kick". The single focus "DPS or bust" outlook of a lot of the community is a problem that is fueled and exacerbated by DPS meters.

You could just tell the group you're support. This is just a communication problem, DPS eles are the norm and it is reasonable to assume you're DPS when you join as ele. Once people know you're in the tank/support role they just ignore your DPS like any other game.

I've tried. Do you know what the result was? "Tempests are only DPS, GFTO - Kick" or "Only Druid's are support, go DPS or GTFO - Kick" This happened EVERY SINGLE TIME. Even one time I got the response of "You're a DPS because I say your a DPS - Kick"

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Panda.1967 said:In other MMOs classes have defined roles, Tanks and Healers are accepted to not need to deal high damage. People don't question your DPS when you're not on a DPS class in those games. Here however, the game was designed to not have roles and not need roles, but at the same time was designed to allow for builds that fit into defined roles. Any class can play as a healer, tank, CC, or DPS. If I build for anything other than DPS, then my DPS is obviously going to be low. DPS meters have fueled the mentality of "DPS or bust", very few classes are given a break by the DPS meter community when it comes to this. If I'm on my elementalist I'm expected to be playing as a glass cannon with massive DPS, an expectation that I will not live up to on my elementalist, I run a support build. A DPS meter won't tell anyone that though. They will see that I'm an elementalist with Tempest elite spec and assume "Fresh Air DPS who's not even coming close to the 30k DPS benchmark, time to kick". The single focus "DPS or bust" outlook of a lot of the community is a problem that is fueled and exacerbated by DPS meters.

That is not true. If you're mesmer or druid in raids, people won't expect high dps (even if you can...)However they will expect you to know mechanics and know when to do support/tricks (mesmer) or heal (druid) etc.There's a few scenario where auramancer works well too.There are elite classes dedicated to support or healing now.

Thats part of the problem that's been created from DPS meters, there are more class the that can be support than just Ranger(Druid) and Mesmer(Chrono). But because X class can output 30k DPS with a glass cannon DPS build, it must always be DPS, even though it can be played as a very efficient support. This mentality only surfaced when DPS meters were approved. Yes, people were kicked because of assumptions regarding classes prior, but such incidents were far less common than the issues we see today.

Like, meta didn't exist before dps meters? Like. 4 tempests were never the standard dps for pugs despite the abysmal performance of your average pug tempest? Like, we never had "mes/warrior only" dungeon parties? Get real... DPS meters didn't

create

meta. If anything, they

helped

a lot in debunking common myths like "ele is the king of dps, if you're not ele you're trash". Meta is just the current "solution" to the game. It's the mathematically optimal way of play. As such, it always exists. And players always find it, and a part of them always adopt it, because that's how they play games. Trying to pinpoint that phenomenon on a specific tool in a specific game is like trying to pinpoint the cause of gravity on apples.

Players Created META!Players Created METERS!Players STANDARDIZE!These are all PLAYER DRIVEN! THEY ARE ALL GARBAGE!Optimal way of playing is nothing than a BIG JOKE!

Definition of optimal

:most desirable or satisfactory :optimum the optimal use of class time the optimal dosage of medication for a patient conditions for optimal development

There will always be optimal way of doing things because if there is choice there will be one that give best result. Everything in mmo is fun when you do it with group of friends on few first time

but then it becomes a chore.

By that things there always will be optimal composition either you want it or not. Why do you think it is bad to give people the tool to verify if they joined your lfg with full implication ( ex. "we want meta builds") .

This is your problem right here.Not everyone sees playing a VIDEOGAME a Job or Chore.

Thanks for whipping out the Webster Dictionary!

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Cynn.1659 said:Just accept the fact that it was said by the devs themselves, that if you join party/squad you agree to have your combat data shared. There is no loophole that arc is using, deal with it, it's not going to change.

And I find a big flaw in current way policy is executed and I'm asking for the change. I never accepted that my account is going to be monitored by deltaconnected, arcdps or other players. If ArenaNet refuses taking responsibility for arcdps or deltaconnected actions, I should be able to cut myself from third party which I'm not interested in using.

If ArcDPS is flawless, safe tool, ArenaNet risks nothing acknowledging this tool in Game documents and ask me to accept them again if they take full responsibility and support me with every damage this tool may cause.

But they do not take this responsibility which means they are aware or suspect this tool to eventually cause problems which means, as a player of GW2 and active user of their services, they should allow me access to security measures that allow me to not allow my account being monitored by this tool without my consent.

Your account isn’t being monitored by Arcdps, since all that is read is Combat data from the Ram of the player using the Arcdps Meter, you would know this if you knew how Arcdps and Gw2 clients/server work. And you consent to Meters when you join any group, as per Anets Official Stance on Meters

[Awaltir.5302]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Cynn.1659 said:Just accept the fact that it was said by the devs themselves, that if you join party/squad you agree to have your combat data shared. There is no loophole that arc is using, deal with it, it's not going to change.

And I find a big flaw in current way policy is executed and I'm asking for the change. I never accepted that my account is going to be monitored by deltaconnected, arcdps or other players. If ArenaNet refuses taking responsibility for arcdps or deltaconnected actions, I should be able to cut myself from third party which I'm not interested in using.

If ArcDPS is flawless, safe tool, ArenaNet risks nothing acknowledging this tool in Game documents and ask me to accept them again if they take full responsibility and support me with every damage this tool may cause.

But they do not take this responsibility which means they are aware or suspect this tool to eventually cause problems which means, as a player of GW2 and active user of their services, they should allow me access to security measures that allow me to not allow my account being monitored by this tool without my consent.ARCDPS was made by someone and by so it is his as of whom the owner is so Anet can't include it. As for this tool being safe there is no possibility to it not being safe for you as someone who does not use this. There is possibility for those who use it to malfunction on being made to gather your private data as login or some other important parameters if this is on your computer. If you are just readed by ARC in the game by other player it is impossible. Some data are encrypted like login or your personal data while combat data is not. It can't do you any charm since dll does not have ability to encrypt data without key. It can only read data that was made public in client without encryption so Anet is in fact in control WHAT OTHER USERS can read but not what it can read if you have it on your computer.

[Rhanoa.3960]

@Coconut.7082 said:

@Rhanoa.3960 said:

@"Nike Porphyrogenita.8137" said:The way immunizations work is you get a weaker strain of a disease in order to build up immunity to the powerful version.

For many years I've been reading awful threads on this forum in order to build up my tolerance for this day. Today is the day I read this thread and was subjected to the full power of toxic cancer.

I'm proud to report I'm fully immune to the genius level 500 iq ideas presented in this thread and have a clean bill of health.

www.deltaconnected.com

GET GOOD

Please SHOW ME WHERE exactly in the

RULES OF CONDUCT

specifically says anyone needs to "GET GOOD?"Show me Exactly where states this is how anyone should play any Profession?

Your so called metaphoric insult goes both ways.

You won't find it in the GW2 RULES OF CONDUCT because it's a bigger, divine rule.Somewhat like the bible of the internet.

GW2 was never about the DIVINE Rule! Whatever that's suppose to me. They clearly did not go the same route as every other MMO on the Market, this what separated them from the rest of them.