Are we even playing the same game?

[jul.7602]

I'm not even trying to be spiteful, but I feel like the devs are playing a completely different game than the wvw population is. Why are we getting buffs to the most over represented skills and classes in the game, and nerfs to the underutilized classes? Generally speaking, skills that are widely utilized in zergs tend to be perceived as stronger, whereas skills that are less frequently taken are seen to be weaker. For instance, for the past 7 years, every single meta necromancer build has featured well of corruption. Why? Because well of corruption is a strong skill. Does that mean WoC is overpowered relative to other skills, it might well be, but it most certainly is not under performing nor in need of any buffs. Furthermore, didn't the last patch make a huge deal about "returning to a baseline" and "removing powercreep"? Why are we doing the opposite?

I am genuinely curious what type of metrics or experience the developers are basing their decisions off of. For anyone that has played necro or been in any sort of organized squad, how can you come to the conclusion that the most popular skill in the history of necromancers in group combat needs another buff? The same goes for the self-procing shades. We've seen the carnage self procing shades did to the metagame when PoF first came out, and even after the numerous nerfs to that profession, scourges are still one of the most stacked classes in organized squads. Another oddball I see is the incredulous nerf of Feel my wrath. The patch notes state that that ability was far too prominent in organized groups. The vast, vast majority of support firebrands are actually running the stability mantra, with a few of them running renewed focus. Only a small, small portion of firebrands were even running that skill. The only justification I can see for that nerf is if you only look at the raid compositions, which in that case the change should be restricted to PvE.

If Anet wants to balance wvw, they need to check their sources and find a credible experience to base their decisions off of, because this balance patch is a huge step backwards.

[Dawdler.8521]

@jul.7602 said:If Anet wants to balance wvw, they need to check the sources and find a credible experience to bass their decisions off ofYeah like how experienced veterans post here and in the PvP forum that their main class X was killed by an enemy class Y therefor class Y is OP, Anet should definetly listen that kind of credible experience and bring down the bass hammer.

[SWI.4127]

From what I've seen, no, we don't play the same game. They play once a week during EU primetime (which is a dead timezone on NA servers at least). From the few clips I've seen, they run around capping a few objectives while chatting. It's nice that they take time to answer questions from chat, but from what they stream, it seems like the experience of some very casual WvW guilds who just PPT a bit or play once a week for WvW guild missions. They seem to have very little experience actually playing in a squad taking on other squads. Yes I am assuming that they don't play during their own free time, but I don't think that's a very big assumption to make based on the decisions they make about this game mode.

[T G.7496]

Amen.First they tear it all down.Well, OK, that's actually been an improvement.Then they think (for a very long time) about what they should do with their first serious balance patch since.And they decide to reinstate one of the most egregious things in the game; that nobody asked for and nobody wants, and that will for sure contribute to worse skill lag.And then they double down and, as you say, buff two skills that every meta scourge has on their bar. Again, no one has ever, in my experience, suggested that this is a needed change.I main scourge.For the first time in a long time scourge has felt about right. And it has still been a large, defining part of the current meta.What game are the devs playing?

[Stormscar.5489]

They've said in a recent stream that the necro buffs were an oversight of the pve balance team, and that they will hotfix the changes for wvw (idk if full revert or compensatory nerfs).

Today there will also be nerfs of dmg siege causes to players by 25% (including DB, excluding mortars). They're also considering potential bubble changes, including making them stationary again.

[Faenar.8036]

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Yeah like how experienced veterans post here and in the PvP forum that their main class X was killed by an enemy class Y therefor class Y is OP, Anet should definetly listen that kind of credible experience and bring down the bass hammer.

Your post about these ... erhm ... "credible veterans" remind me an old joke:Rock: "Paper too OP, nerf Paper plz! Scissors are fine, no balance needed."Paper: "Scissors too OP, nerf Scissors plz! Rock is fine, no balance needed."Scissors: "Rock too OP, nerf Rock plz! Paper is ok, no balance needed."

Like in all MMOs, balancing 50v50 gameplay based on feedback received in 5v5 or 1v1 always ends in distaster.Not even mentioning these "veterans" crying "My character was ganked, nerf everyone except me".

// edit: forgot somehing in that joke, added it.

[Xenic.1387]

yeah they said on stream that they had a few oversights (number of targets affected with shades, well cd in wvw, etc...) that would be hotfixed about a week after launch. The reason given was this was the first patch release that they did since transitioning to working from home and they just missed this. In the office it would have had more eyes checking it. They also said that there's a lot of changes that impact WvW that weren't mentioned. Like Siege damage vs players being nerfed. dragon banner nerf, no more warclaw stomp, etc...

It's good that they acknowledged this and are correcting it.

[T G.7496]

@Xenic.1387 said:yeah they said on stream that they had a few oversights (number of targets affected with shades, well cd in wvw, etc...) that would be hotfixed about a week after launch. The reason given was this was the first patch release that they did since transitioning to working from home and they just missed this. In the office it would have had more eyes checking it. They also said that there's a lot of changes that impact WvW that weren't mentioned. Like Siege damage vs players being nerfed. dragon banner nerf, no more warclaw stomp, etc...

It's good that they acknowledged this and are correcting it.

Fair enough, I didn't see that.Still beggars belief that changes like the shade and well cd were not spotted - it's not like there were that many changes in the patch.Good to hear about the dragon banner nerf (finally!)... and no more warclaw stomp!? Wow, warclaw is so useful now - well worth introducing XD

[Xenic.1387]

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:

@Xenic.1387 said:yeah they said on stream that they had a few oversights (number of targets affected with shades, well cd in wvw, etc...) that would be hotfixed about a week after launch. The reason given was this was the first patch release that they did since transitioning to working from home and they just missed this. In the office it would have had more eyes checking it. They also said that there's a lot of changes that impact WvW that weren't mentioned. Like Siege damage vs players being nerfed. dragon banner nerf, no more warclaw stomp, etc...

It's good that they acknowledged this and are correcting it.

Fair enough, I didn't see that.Still beggars belief that changes like the shade and well cd were not spotted - it's not like there were

that

many changes in the patch.Good to hear about the dragon banner nerf (finally!)... and no more warclaw stomp!? Wow, warclaw is so useful now - well worth introducing XD

yeah from what they said on the stream, the patch notes were just a highlight. Apparently this is one of the biggest changes they have ever done and just 2nd behind the mega patch.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Well, you and I (presumably) play this game and game mode to have fun.The ANET developers (again, presumably) want to create a game that is fun and enjoyable to play, and to make the players 'happy'. This is their art.The people who pay the ANET developers want a game where every single player can be milked for as much cash as possible, and maximize ROI.

Guess which of those 3 groups gets the last word in?

So yeah, it makes sense that there is a disparity.

We play the game to have fun, but of course what we find 'fun' is subjective, and differs from person to person.The developers want to create something that we the players will enjoy playing, but again, what makes players happy varies from player to player. Regardless of this, they have to produce the game that their BOSSES want, in keeping with the goals they have and generating revenue.

We are all playing the same game - we're just playing it with different expectations.

[XenesisII.1540]

Patch gets posted on tues on boards, 2 days later they're on stream saying stuff was an oversight for wvw. So did the wvw team see the patch notes the same as the rest of us? was there no communication to them about changes before hand? no consulting? Hey I get there's covid and working at home, but there's a ton of ways to get a message to someone, the person not being in the same room as you is not really an excuse. Funny how changes are made without consulting the balance people, guess shouldn't be surprised with this dev team.

Too funny.

Abuse the red rings while you can bois.

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:Well, you and I (presumably) play this game and game mode to have fun.The ANET developers (again, presumably) want to create a game that is fun and enjoyable to play, and to make the players 'happy'. This is their art.

Oh yeah like I'm sure mirage players are so "happy" lately.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@XenesisII.1540 said:Patch gets posted on tues on boards, 2 days later they're on stream saying stuff was an oversight for wvw.

Of course they said it would be a ‘hot fix’ which is code for it to be released about 15 minutes after WvW reset on a Friday in the evening, subsequently breaking multiple things in WvW.

And THAT’s if the remember that a hit fix is even needed in the next several weeks.

So did the wvw team see the patch notes the same as the rest of us? was there no communication to them about changes before hand? no consulting? Hey I get corvid and working at home, but there's a ton of ways to get a message to someone, the person not being in the same room as you is not really an excuse.

It’s almost as if they need a way to electronically communicate with each other.

Abuse the red rings while you can bois.