Should ascended armors of different weights be equally accessible?

[Virtuality.8351]

Take the Berserker sets for example, which are the most prevalent in PvE. Here are the prices for the material to craft a full set of Zojja's armor in each weight.

Heavy: 245 ~ 255 gMedium: 280 ~ 290 gLight: 270 ~ 275 g

Since too many have mistaken the point of this post for ideas around specific stat combination and/or individual armor set, allow me to rephrase it.

There is a 35 to 45 g disparity between the costs of a full set of ascended armor of each weight, which does not seem to me justified, particularly for new players with their first character of adventurer or scholar classes, who are required to spend more time or gold to obtain their very first set of ascended armor as their entrance ticket to fractals.

Maybe the issue can be solved by lowering the cost of one of the major components in ascended armor: Cured Thick Leather Squares, which the medium armor set costs the most and the heavy armor set costs the least. If the number of Thick Leather Section to make one Cured Thick Leather Square is reduced back from 4 to 3 as it used to be, that would help reduce the disparity of cost between different armor weights.

What's the communities take on this?

[MedievalThings.5417]

The armor weights shouldn't exist, that's part of the problem. Armor weights are a big part of the trinity and Anet overlooked that when they added it to the game. It is also one of the reasons they are having such a hard time balancing things.

That said, Anet meddling in the conversion rates for crafting mats bas been a problem for a while. It is kind of ridiculous that every conversion isn't the same (whether that is 3 fo1 or whatever). The conversion rates should be the same for every mat. And, if they need to increase the drop rate or change the % nodes for a certain type, they should be doing that, not adjusting the conversions.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

The Cured Thick Leather Sections/Squares crafting-reduction was requested a couple of times in the past. I would like to have the droprates of leather materials increased or the amount of NPCs, which can drop leather-materials. Maybe adding the material to a certain NPC category, which usually does not drop it, but does not cause much irritation if it does. Bandits for example, which are literally wearing leather-armor. We have tons of Bandits in many maps, within all level ranges. This could significantly increase the supply of all leather-materials and probably lead to lower prices for the Elonian Leather Squares. Those are highly demanded for all three armor-weights and are used as the key-material for ascended medium armor. Maybe not a huge impact on the Cured Thick Leather Sections, but a combined effect on all ingredients.

[Super Hayes.6890]

The market is structured to control this. Demand for zerker gear in different weight classes will cause the crafting material prices to vary. If you need a fixed price on exotic armor there is always the temple armors in Orr. All three weights are the same karma price at the trade off of less stat options and you cannot salvage them.

[Jagblade.4627]

Voted other, and basically everything the first two guys above me said.

[Virtuality.8351]

@Super Hayes.6890 said:The market is structured to control this. Demand for zerker gear in different weight classes will cause the crafting material prices to vary.

Except that in fact the most significant historical factor of crafting material prices was not difference in demands for ascended berserker gear of different weights, which is more or less constant, but the refinement ratio of the material to craft these items. And if you look back into the market history, it is almost always the medium set that costs the most, if my memory serves right.

If you need a fixed price on exotic armor there is always the temple armors in Orr. All three weights are the same karma price at the trade off of less stat options and you cannot salvage them....which is not what is requested in the original post. It is instead about giving new players who main different classes a more equal starting point to begin Fractals. The temple armor set is just complete irrelevant here.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

There's always the leather farm.

Or, changing the stats in the Mystic Forge.

[ArchonWing.9480]

The massive amounts of leather required was an over-correction that never made any sense to begin with and unfairly penalized medium users. At this point, they're probably not going to do anything about it and the disparity is not what it once was at 25%. Still though, it'd be nice.

[Game of Bones.8975]

There's too much "wrong" with crafting to list them all here.

Since when does it take multiple logs of wood to create one dowel? One log should create multiple planks (3), each plank should in turn create multiple dowels (3+). So you should be able to craft at a minimum 9 dowels per log of wood. But ..... never happen.

With metal ores, you will at least have a lot of slag and impurities that will be removed from the pure end-source. It's possible to start with multiple pounds of ore and end up with a single ingot.

Crystals/gemstones need to be carved down to make the facets align properly and you can't start over if you make a mistake. You need multiple sources to get the final piece you are looking for.

[Super Hayes.6890]

@Virtuality.8351 said:

@Super Hayes.6890 said:The market is structured to control this. Demand for zerker gear in different weight classes will cause the crafting material prices to vary.

Except that in fact the most significant historical factor of crafting material prices was not difference in demands for ascended berserker gear of different weights, which is more or less constant, but the refinement ratio of the material to craft these items. And if you look back into the market history, it is almost always the medium set that costs the most, if my memory serves right.

If you need a fixed price on exotic armor there is always the temple armors in Orr. All three weights are the same karma price at the trade off of less stat options and you cannot salvage them....which is not what is requested in the original post. It is instead about giving new players who main different classes a more equal starting point to begin Fractals. The temple armor set is just complete irrelevant here.

Sorry, not sure how I glossed over the ascended for fractals part. Pretty sure the market imbalance you are referring to started because they messed with it by adding leather requirements for patches when they should have just reduced the amount of leather sources. Leather was dirt cheap before that. It swung hard and became one of the most valuable crafting materials after that. They should leave the market alone and maybe add a one time collection for your first set of ascended fractal armor.

[Khisanth.2948]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:The massive amounts of leather required was an over-correction that never made any sense to begin with and unfairly penalized medium users. At this point, they're probably not going to do anything about it and the disparity is not what it once was at 25%. Still though, it'd be nice.

Trying to make multiple adjustments simultaneously was a stupid move. Reducing amount from salvage while also increasing quantity required for refining ends up with a multiplicative effect and then after screwing that up decided they were going to be more handsoff without fixing the problem that was created first.

[Vavume.8065]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Or, changing the stats in the Mystic Forge.

What does this have to do with it?

[bryony.1576]

Absolutely. The scarcity of leather is ridiculous, and the "leather farm" as people have mentioned is locked away behind LWS3-- this means it is absolutely not accessible to new players. The fact that you need a 4:1 ratio of leather is ridiculous as well.

[Khisanth.2948]

Well there is a bit of hope ... they finally fixed the drop rate of Freshwater Pearls in the June 23 patch.

[Virtuality.8351]

@Super Hayes.6890 said:

@Virtuality.8351 said:

@Super Hayes.6890 said:The market is structured to control this. Demand for zerker gear in different weight classes will cause the crafting material prices to vary.

Except that in fact the most significant historical factor of crafting material prices was not difference in demands for ascended berserker gear of different weights, which is more or less constant, but the refinement ratio of the material to craft these items. And if you look back into the market history, it is almost always the medium set that costs the most, if my memory serves right.

If you need a fixed price on exotic armor there is always the temple armors in Orr. All three weights are the same karma price at the trade off of less stat options and you cannot salvage them....which is not what is requested in the original post. It is instead about giving new players who main different classes a more equal starting point to begin Fractals. The temple armor set is just complete irrelevant here.

Sorry, not sure how I glossed over the ascended for fractals part. Pretty sure the market imbalance you are referring to started because they messed with it by adding leather requirements for patches when they should have just reduced the amount of leather sources. Leather was dirt cheap before that. It swung hard and became one of the most valuable crafting materials after that. They should leave the market alone and maybe add a one time collection for your first set of ascended fractal armor.

It wasn't your fault but instead more of mine. I did not made it clear enough in my first edition of the post. After your reply I updated it and hopefully people would get my point more easily. And yes, it was indeed the said patch that caused this issue. Here I agree with ArchonWing.9480 in another comment above that it was way over-corrected.

[Virtuality.8351]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:There's always the leather farm.

Or, changing the stats in the Mystic Forge.

You can only change stats instead of weight via MF.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Virtuality.8351 said:The 35 to 45 g disparity does not seem to me justified, particularly for new players with their first character of adventurer or scholar classes, who are required to spend more time or gold to obtain their very first set of ascended armor as their entrance ticket to fractals.

Maybe the issue can be solved by lowering the cost of one of the major components in ascended armor: Cured Thick Leather Squares, which the medium armor set costs the most and the heavy armor set costs the least. If the number of Thick Leather Section to make one Cured Thick Leather Square is reduced back from 4 to 3 as it used to be, that would help reduce the disparity of cost between different armor weights.

What's the communities take on this?

Honest answer?

This complaint is insignificant. 20-40 gold are literally 2-3 hours of open world farms. It's a couple of days worth of dailies and some materials. It's NOTHING.

The worst idea possible is to start doctoring around on an individual item and individual price basis in regular intervals. So leather is currently the most expensive, light armor was on release, back then 1 set cost nearly 1k gold. It's not something which is in any way significant or warrants developer attention currently both because it is a minor difference as well as way to big of a hassle to pay constant attention to and the problems of constantly making changes here would be far worse.

[Super Hayes.6890]

@"bryony.1576" said:Absolutely. The scarcity of leather is ridiculous, and the "leather farm" as people have mentioned is locked away behind LWS3-- this means it is absolutely not accessible to new players. The fact that you need a 4:1 ratio of leather is ridiculous as well.

I vote they change that ratio to 3:1 and step back to see if that balances things.

[Super Hayes.6890]

But I still lean toward no changes as the last "fix" really made a mess.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

My bad. Thought the OP was complaining about the cost of a particular stat's armor (Zojja), and I thought there might be a different stat that was less expensive to craft, then change via the Mystic Forge.
As well, as using the Leather Farm, of course.

But, if it's not the cost, and only the difference that is of concern, then...

My apologies.

[Virtuality.8351]

@"Cyninja.2954" said:This complaint is insignificant. 20-40 gold are literally 2-3 hours of open world farms. It's a couple of days worth of dailies and some materials. It's NOTHING.

For a veteran player, perhaps. Yet, please do also keep in mind that this post is all about advocating for new players to provide a more equal footing for them regardless of whichever profession they choose as their first character. Not to mention the profitability of one of the major and perhaps most accessible open world farms, Silverwaste, is highly dependent on player MF value, which new players generally do not have as much, and the disparity could thus for them become more significant than you'd imagine.

The worst idea possible is to start doctoring around on an individual item and individual price basis in regular intervals. So leather is currently the most expensive, light armor was on release, back then 1 set cost nearly 1k gold. It's not something which is in any way significant or warrants developer attention currently both because it is a minor difference as well as way to big of a hassle to pay constant attention to and the problems of constantly making changes here would be far worse.

First of all, the proposal here is not to "[doctor] around an individual item and individual price basis in regular intervals", but instead provides a holistic view over the relation between crafting system and market of ascended armor, which is arguably one of the most important factor that drives market demand for leather. The Berserker set here is only brought up as an example, regarding its prevalence and thus its representability, and it is clearly stated in the OP.

Secondarily, a major part of the charm is that the developers actually care about the experience of players. The more or less "no-grind" design philosophy. The level 80 cap that does not raise with each expansion. The idea "horizontal progression". And it is not just about those grand, systemic stuffs that ArenaNet has promised the players and keeping it since launch. It also comes to things as detail and insignificant as to reduce the chore for players when gathering from the synthesizers in the guild halls by making all plant based ones one-shot and wood two shots.

And the market of critical crafting materials that is traded in tens of thousands daily is certainly nothing trivia, nor is the experience of new players. It is why the developers even took the effort to introduce the guide achievement. The point you made that this issue does not warrant developers attention simply does not stand.

Not to mention that what is requested in the OP is clearly not to "constantly make changes".

[Virtuality.8351]

@"Super Hayes.6890" said:But I still lean toward no changes as the last "fix" really made a mess.

Personally, I lean more toward the idea that, since it is already a mess now, might as well try to "unfix" it ;)

[Virtuality.8351]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:My bad. Thought the OP was complaining about the cost of a particular stat's armor (Zojja), and I thought there might be a different stat that was less expensive to craft, then change via the Mystic Forge.

As well, as using the Leather Farm, of course.

But, if it's not the cost, and only the difference that is of concern, then...

My apologies.

No problem. It is not the difference between the costs of ascended armor of different stat combinations, but instead the costs of ascended armor of different weights. As stated in the OP, the berserker set is only brought up as an example, and perhaps even a representable one due to its prevalence.

As for the leather farm you brought up, well, now that you mention it, the proposal might actually make AFK farming (if that's what you mean by "leather farm" since there has been quite some discussion taking place about it recently.) less desirable due to reduced demand, and hence price, for leather. Personally, I do not care about it that much, but if it does helps...well, then, glad to help?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

AFK farmers can't exist in the Leather Farm due to the mechanics introduced to discourage them (characters are defeated if they sit still in said farm).

[Cyninja.2954]

@"Virtuality.8351" said:[snip]Not to mention that what is requested in the OP is clearly not to "constantly make changes".

Not sure how you would assure no constant changes, given how the used ingredients are subject to the in-game economy. As such we are back to: constant adjusting here for such a minor difference is not needed.

Complaining about an individual armor set because of it being currently slightly more expensive, and yes anything which takes 2-3 hours is insignificant for a MMORPG player, even ones with little time, is just that: doctoring around a single commodity.

Even a new player, if he spent a little research about how to save or make gold, in case he himself is not adept at saving or making gold, can easily acquire this amount within hours. The monthly login rewards alone sum up to 60+ gold if converted or sold, not counting the 60 gold from dailies. Sorry but this is NOT an issue, not even for new players.