Raise the sell price limit on the trading post

[Tiilimon.6094]

It's just how it is, people have money and are willing to spend a lot of it on prestige items, that brings the prices up as they got the dosh to burn. The ones who benefit from this are obviously folks who don't have money but get that rare drop and can then buy a few legendaries and all the mount skins they want.

I personally know a couple guys who are quite rich and they don't flip anything at all, they simply don't spend it on anything and it keeps piling up as they play the game.

I would also be quite rich if I didn't spend all my gold on buying funny things for beginners and griffons for pals.

[Sobx.1758]

@blp.3489 said:My question is, who benefits from items being so rare that they are valued at over 10k gold?

It's an mmorpg, there are always rare drops included because that's what mmorpgs do. This one is simply a cosmetic, I don't know why anyone would complain about it. If everyone has everything by defualt then what's even the point?

People that complain about the rarity of some silly infusions: are you consistently complaining about any and every rare boss drop in other mmorpgs? Did it ever change anything for you or for the game itself?

[robertthebard.8150]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well. In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well.

Which has nothing to do with raising/removing the price cap.

In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

Please explain how this inflation was due to increasing/removing a price cap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

You're failing to identify how removing a price cap causes inflation.

Also be aware that the GW2 economy has been fairly stable.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well.

Which has nothing to do with raising/removing the price cap.

In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

Please explain how this inflation was due to increasing/removing a price cap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

You're failing to identify how removing a price cap causes inflation.

Also be aware that the GW2 economy has been fairly stable.

It wasn't. It was due to not having one at all, a point I am fairly certain I made in my first post, that got lost in the "but I want this, so I have to support it no matter what". The limitation is removed by simply not being there in the first place, and this is the end result. The same will be true for this. Players needing to raise the cash for these heavily inflated prices will raise the prices on whatever they can in order to raise the currency they need. This already happens, look at any item with tons of listings, and check out the price ranges they hit.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well.

Which has nothing to do with raising/removing the price cap.

In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

Please explain how this inflation was due to increasing/removing a price cap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

You're failing to identify how removing a price cap causes inflation.

Also be aware that the GW2 economy has been fairly stable.

It wasn't. It was due to not having one at all, a point I am fairly certain I made in my first post, that got lost in the "but I want this, so I have to support it no matter what". The limitation is removed by simply not being there in the first place, and this is the end result. The same will be true for this. Players needing to raise the cash for these heavily inflated prices will raise the prices on whatever they can in order to raise the currency they need. This already happens, look at any item with tons of listings, and check out the price ranges they hit.

Well then prove that this cap is necessary in GW2. It just seems that a hyperbole is being used to create fear that removing the cap will somehow cause issues when 99.99% of the items in the game don't even break 5K and have remained fairly stable over the years.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well.

Which has nothing to do with raising/removing the price cap.

In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

Please explain how this inflation was due to increasing/removing a price cap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

You're failing to identify how removing a price cap causes inflation.

Also be aware that the GW2 economy has been fairly stable.

It wasn't. It was due to not having one at all, a point I am fairly certain I made in my first post, that got lost in the "but I want this, so I have to support it no matter what". The limitation is removed by simply not being there in the first place, and this is the end result. The same will be true for this. Players needing to raise the cash for these heavily inflated prices will raise the prices on whatever they can in order to raise the currency they need. This already happens, look at any item with tons of listings, and check out the price ranges they hit.

Well then prove that this cap is necessary in GW2. It just seems that a hyperbole is being used to create fear that removing the cap will somehow cause issues when 99.99% of the items in the game don't even break 5K and have remained fairly stable over the years.

Why does maintaining the status quo require proof? Prove that removing or raising this cap will improve the quality of life for everyone playing. The burden of proof isn't on me, I have the devs in my corner, as it were, since they put it in when they designed the market.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:There are currently 97 buy orders at 10K gold from 67 accounts for the chak egg. Clearly there are people that feel that it's worth at least that much.I know that at least some of those people, if they were to get their egg, would immediately try to resell it for double the price outside the tp. It's not that they think this item is worth that much, but that they know that some other people would buy it for even more.In fact, a large part of the current price being considered to be above TP range is because its rarity is so low that a relatively small number of wealthy players can place enough 10k bids to remove all egg sacs from the market, and then just try to resell at whatever price they think of.

It's not only about "people thinking that it's worth that much". It's about people selling at those extraorbitant prices having no competition worth mentioning. In order for the market to truly arrive at the price equilibrium, you would need enough supply that a few tp barons wouldn't be able to completely control those.

[Sobx.1758]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:There are currently 97 buy orders at 10K gold from 67 accounts for the chak egg. Clearly there are people that feel that it's worth at least that much.I know that at least some of those people, if they were to get their egg, would immediately try to resell it for double the price outside the tp. It's not that they think this item is worth that much, but that they know that some

other

people would buy it for even more.In fact, a large part of the current price being considered to be above TP range is because its rarity is so low that a relatively small number of wealthy players can place enough 10k bids to remove all egg sacs from the market, and then just try to resell at whatever price they think of.

It's not only about "people thinking that it's worth that much". It's about people selling at those extraorbitant prices having no competition worth mentioning. In order for the market to truly arrive at the price equilibrium, you would need enough supply that a few tp barons wouldn't be able to completely control those.

Ok. How would raising the tp cap influence that in a negative way?If anything, people could set the price they think it's actually worth instead of letting the "first come first serve" maxed-out-buy-bids try to effectively scam potentially unaware/new-ish players.

Now, putting this aside, I'll ask again: how is this high price important at all when it's just affecting barely a few -obnoxiously eyegauging- cosmetic items?

[Sobx.1758]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well.

Which has nothing to do with raising/removing the price cap.

In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

Please explain how this inflation was due to increasing/removing a price cap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

You're failing to identify how removing a price cap causes inflation.

Also be aware that the GW2 economy has been fairly stable.

It wasn't. It was due to not having one at all, a point I am fairly certain I made in my first post, that got lost in the "but I want this, so I have to support it no matter what". The limitation is removed by simply not being there in the first place, and this is the end result. The same will be true for this. Players needing to raise the cash for these heavily inflated prices will raise the prices on whatever they can in order to raise the currency they need. This already happens, look at any item with tons of listings, and check out the price ranges they hit.

The item will still be worth what people are ready to pay for it, not "as much as the price limit is". I don't know where you (and some other people in this thread) come from with this claim, but it's FALSE and people that already go around the TP limit prove that by having their own opinion about the worth of these items even when not being held back by some artificial price cap.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well.

Which has nothing to do with raising/removing the price cap.

In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

Please explain how this inflation was due to increasing/removing a price cap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

You're failing to identify how removing a price cap causes inflation.

Also be aware that the GW2 economy has been fairly stable.

It wasn't. It was due to not having one at all, a point I am fairly certain I made in my first post, that got lost in the "but I want this, so I have to support it no matter what". The limitation is removed by simply not being there in the first place, and this is the end result. The same will be true for this. Players needing to raise the cash for these heavily inflated prices will raise the prices on whatever they can in order to raise the currency they need. This already happens, look at any item with tons of listings, and check out the price ranges they hit.

Well then prove that this cap is necessary in GW2. It just seems that a hyperbole is being used to create fear that removing the cap will somehow cause issues when 99.99% of the items in the game don't even break 5K and have remained fairly stable over the years.

Why does maintaining the status quo require proof? Prove that removing or raising this cap will improve the quality of life for everyone playing. The burden of proof isn't on me, I have the devs in my corner, as it were, since they put it in when they designed the market.

You made the claim that removing/increasing the price cap would cause prices for everything to increase. I'm simply asking you to back up that claim.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:There are currently 97 buy orders at 10K gold from 67 accounts for the chak egg. Clearly there are people that feel that it's worth at least that much.I know that at least some of those people, if they were to get their egg, would immediately try to resell it for double the price outside the tp. It's not that they think this item is worth that much, but that they know that some

other

people would buy it for even more.

And? If the price cap was higher then they would be more inclined to sell it on the TP. That is or course if they don't mind the TP taxes. My responses to the other poster has been against their doomsday claims that increasing/removing the cap would cause issues on the economy.

In fact, a large part of the current price being considered to be above TP range is because its rarity is so low that a relatively small number of wealthy players can place enough 10k bids to remove all egg sacs from the market, and then just try to resell at whatever price they think of.

And if the the price cap were higher, or didn't exist at all, then they couldn't do that with bids (or it would be much more difficult). We're essentially looking at like three items in the game where their value exceeds the current TP price cap. The majority of players in the game will never have that much gold and those that do have to go outside of the TP because the price cap restricts trading the items at what they're actually worth.

It's not only about "people thinking that it's worth that much". It's about people selling at those extraorbitant prices having no competition worth mentioning. In order for the market to truly arrive at the price equilibrium, you would need enough supply that a few tp barons wouldn't be able to completely control those.

Which has nothing to do with the price cap's increase/removal.

[Ashen.2907]

@Vavume.8065 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:There are items that drop in game that are worth more than 10k gold.

I don't think any item should be worth over 10k gold.

The value of an item is based on what someone is willing to pay for it. Artificial limits take self determination away from people.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well.

Which has nothing to do with raising/removing the price cap.

In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

Please explain how this inflation was due to increasing/removing a price cap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

You're failing to identify how removing a price cap causes inflation.

Also be aware that the GW2 economy has been fairly stable.

It wasn't. It was due to not having one at all, a point I am fairly certain I made in my first post, that got lost in the "but I want this, so I have to support it no matter what". The limitation is removed by simply not being there in the first place, and this is the end result. The same will be true for this. Players needing to raise the cash for these heavily inflated prices will raise the prices on whatever they can in order to raise the currency they need. This already happens, look at any item with tons of listings, and check out the price ranges they hit.

Well then prove that this cap is necessary in GW2. It just seems that a hyperbole is being used to create fear that removing the cap will somehow cause issues when 99.99% of the items in the game don't even break 5K and have remained fairly stable over the years.

Why does maintaining the status quo require proof? Prove that removing or raising this cap will improve the quality of life for everyone playing. The burden of proof isn't on me, I have the devs in my corner, as it were, since they put it in when they designed the market.

You made the claim that removing/increasing the price cap would cause prices for everything to increase. I'm simply asking you to back up that claim.

I already have. However, since prices in game aren't in the billions for items, even going off the grid to sell them, I'd say this system is working rather well. So, since you're pushing for a change, how about you support your claim that it won't happen. It's going to be a hard row, though, since we have statements in this thread that people are trading on third party websites to bypass both the limit and the taxes. I'm frankly surprised that ANet allows that, which they must, if people are going to post about it publicly, most MMOs discourage that kind of thing.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well.

Which has nothing to do with raising/removing the price cap.

In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

Please explain how this inflation was due to increasing/removing a price cap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

You're failing to identify how removing a price cap causes inflation.

Also be aware that the GW2 economy has been fairly stable.

It wasn't. It was due to not having one at all, a point I am fairly certain I made in my first post, that got lost in the "but I want this, so I have to support it no matter what". The limitation is removed by simply not being there in the first place, and this is the end result. The same will be true for this. Players needing to raise the cash for these heavily inflated prices will raise the prices on whatever they can in order to raise the currency they need. This already happens, look at any item with tons of listings, and check out the price ranges they hit.

Well then prove that this cap is necessary in GW2. It just seems that a hyperbole is being used to create fear that removing the cap will somehow cause issues when 99.99% of the items in the game don't even break 5K and have remained fairly stable over the years.

Why does maintaining the status quo require proof? Prove that removing or raising this cap will improve the quality of life for everyone playing. The burden of proof isn't on me, I have the devs in my corner, as it were, since they put it in when they designed the market.

You made the claim that removing/increasing the price cap would cause prices for everything to increase. I'm simply asking you to back up that claim.

I already have. However, since prices in game aren't in the billions for items, even going off the grid to sell them, I'd say this system is working rather well. So, since you're pushing for a change, how about you support your claim that it won't happen. It's going to be a hard row, though, since we have statements in this thread that people are trading on third party websites to bypass both the limit and the taxes. I'm frankly surprised that ANet allows that, which they must, if people are going to post about it publicly, most MMOs discourage that kind of thing.

You haven’t. Nothing you have stated has backed up any correlation between a price cap raising and it being the cause to inflation of items.

[Zeivu.3615]

I stand by fixing the drop rates. I have said it once and I will say it again: The only game with worse drops is Anthem. Loot in general in this game has so little meaning. No reason to go for anything worth while. I also say they get rid of the damn gold find you get for logging in. It isn't helping.

[Vavume.8065]

@Ashen.2907 said:

The value of an item is based on what someone is willing to pay for it. Artificial limits take self determination away from people.

Up to the cap of 10k. I could complain that WvW rank is also capped at 10k, since in reality I'm way beyond that, would I prefer they remove that cap? sure, do I think they are going to? probably not, can I continue to play and have fun with the cap? yes.

[Tiilimon.6094]

But the point is that you are very well able to trade in higher amounts of gold than 10k, it's only the trading post that disallows it. That's what the opening poster would like to see changed, but people come up with wild theories about this cap causing inflation of common goods.

We are also still waiting for some example of such a thing happening elsewhere, as there is a poster who says that this happens in the majority of MMO games so it should be quite simple to validate these claims.

Dunno why you even bring up completely off topic stuff like WvW rank, could as well talk about Achievement Points and it's cap and it sounds just as silly in a discussion about a tradable currency in the game.

[Vavume.8065]

@Tiilimon.6094 said:

Dunno why you even bring up completely off topic stuff like WvW rank, could as well talk about Achievement Points and it's cap and it sounds just as silly in a discussion about a tradable currency in the game.

It's not off topic... the point was there are many caps in the game, and the players do not decide what the cap is, Anet does.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well.

Which has nothing to do with raising/removing the price cap.

In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

Please explain how this inflation was due to increasing/removing a price cap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

You're failing to identify how removing a price cap causes inflation.

Also be aware that the GW2 economy has been fairly stable.

It wasn't. It was due to not having one at all, a point I am fairly certain I made in my first post, that got lost in the "but I want this, so I have to support it no matter what". The limitation is removed by simply not being there in the first place, and this is the end result. The same will be true for this. Players needing to raise the cash for these heavily inflated prices will raise the prices on whatever they can in order to raise the currency they need. This already happens, look at any item with tons of listings, and check out the price ranges they hit.

Well then prove that this cap is necessary in GW2. It just seems that a hyperbole is being used to create fear that removing the cap will somehow cause issues when 99.99% of the items in the game don't even break 5K and have remained fairly stable over the years.

Why does maintaining the status quo require proof? Prove that removing or raising this cap will improve the quality of life for everyone playing. The burden of proof isn't on me, I have the devs in my corner, as it were, since they put it in when they designed the market.

You made the claim that removing/increasing the price cap would cause prices for everything to increase. I'm simply asking you to back up that claim.

I already have. However, since prices in game aren't in the billions for items, even going off the grid to sell them, I'd say this system is working rather well. So, since you're pushing for a change, how about you support your claim that it won't happen. It's going to be a hard row, though, since we have statements in this thread that people are trading on third party websites to bypass both the limit and the taxes. I'm frankly surprised that ANet allows that, which they must, if people are going to post about it publicly, most MMOs discourage that kind of thing.

You haven’t. Nothing you have stated has backed up any correlation between a price cap raising and it being the cause to inflation of items.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it wasn't provided. How much are items being sold for on 3rd party sites now? How many people actually know about them, let alone use them. I found out about them because of this thread. I still haven't felt the need to go look. What happens if the cap is raised, and those items can be listed on the TP instead? For the most part, nothing is going to change for some people, because they'll still "cheat the system" by selling off site. For others, they'll start listing those items for what they think people think they're worth, and people that want them, even if they think they're too high, will start jacking up the prices of what they're selling in order to get the funds for those items. The irony is that, in an effort to control the prices, those with the funds, the "TP Barons", will buy up everything they can that's below what they're trying to get the prices to and relist them. This will include items listed by people that are just jacking up the price to acquire funds for that one thing they want.

So they'll be like "check it out, all those items I overpriced sold, I can jack up the price a bit more". This isn't some power fantasy for how trading through an AH system works, this is playing more than one MMO, and knowing it's how it works when there's a centralized place to sell these items, instead of an ESO type system, where there's not, and players still have to actually win a vendor to sell their goods. I started with Rappelz. In the Neverwinter MMO, it took exactly two weeks for this trend to start. swtor is no better. There was a single pair of gloves listed for 9 million credits. In swtor, these gloves had no special properties, at all. They are effectively a skin, with modification slots. They didn't have any extra slots, just a name, and a look.

Now maybe you think it's past time that items were hitting this threshold here. I disagree. I believe that the economy holding on to any semblance of anything like normalcy is a direct result of the cap. Why? Because in the games I've listed as problematic, that cap doesn't, or didn't exist. I haven't played Neverwinter in a year, or more, so I don't know what it looks like today, but when I left, items were listed for "rare" prices, with 200 individual listings of the item, and frankly, if they're dropping often enough for there to be 200 of them, and they're a desirable item, then they aren't all that rare, since it's likely most people already have it, and already have it on all their alts that can use it. The "Need vs Greed" argument was rampant back then, and I'd be willing to bet it still is, because people that already have it, but want to sell it are still going to roll Need, instead of Greed. We don't have that argument here, thankfully, but if we did, there'd sure be a lot of players that get exposed, and not in a way that they'd enjoy.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Vavume.8065 said:

@Tiilimon.6094 said:

Dunno why you even bring up completely off topic stuff like WvW rank, could as well talk about Achievement Points and it's cap and it sounds just as silly in a discussion about a tradable currency in the game.

It's not off topic... the point was there are many caps in the game, and the players do not decide the cap, Anet does.

Which doesn’t mean that players cannot make requests for the cap to be increased/removed by giving reasons to support such a change. This is even more so when no reason has been provided by Anet as to why the cap exists in the first place. If there was a reason given, can someone please link it as I have yet to see one.

[Vavume.8065]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

Which doesn’t mean that players cannot make requests for the cap to be increased/removed by giving reasons to support such a change.

Obviously...

[Vavume.8065]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vavume.8065 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

Which doesn’t mean that players cannot make requests for the cap to be increased/removed by giving reasons to support such a change.

Obviously...

If it was so obvious then why did you make your post?

Figure it out for yourself, I'm not here to answer your questions...

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Vavume.8065 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Vavume.8065 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

Which doesn’t mean that players cannot make requests for the cap to be increased/removed by giving reasons to support such a change.

Obviously...

If it was so obvious then why did you make your post?

Figure it out for yourself, I'm not here to answer your questions...

Ok....

[Ayrilana.1396]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Basically anything a new player might need in the game drops in such quantities, that there will always be a cheap source even if the TP maximum prices were pushed up to a billion.There are already plenty of individuals playing the game who could just buy all t6 materials off the trading post and reprice em as they like to 10k, but they will have to stay online 247 to keep buying things as they are listed, and they can't stop the cheaper stuff that people are instantly selling to people who order em for low prices.

If you don't sell or buy items over 10k, this change would never affect you at all in any way tbh.

People generally are afraid of things they don't seem to understand, and I see a lot of that sort of fear in this thread.

Except it will eventually affect everything in the game. When you don't cap what players can sell for, they sell for what they think someone will pay. As players start generating more funds, other items start going up, and it doesn't take very long at all before a Minor Fire Sigil is a few hundred gold. I've seen base items listed in a game's AH for billions of the game's currency. Not capped, maxed out gear, but the base items. That's not a typo either, billions. By the time they started trying to add significant sinks for the currency, it was way too late.

So no, I'd rather not see the currency devalued so badly that new players looking for odds and ends see those prices, look at what they generate a day, and just quit.

What you're suggesting would never happen.

What I'm suggesting has already happened. It's even happened to more than just the one MMO. They just recently changed publishers, who took a look at the in game economy, and wiped the servers. I'm not buying "But this is GW 2, people aren't that greedy here", or similar, in a thread insisting that the max sell price for items be raised above what it is now.

Please provide examples and include

all

of the information to back them up.

It makes zero sense for the cap to impact items in this game unless it was already limiting them. Raising the cap isn't going to magically cause minor sigil prices to suddenly inflate.

Saying that it would essentially ignores basic economic theory. It doesn’t change the demand for an item. It doesn’t change the supply for an item. It certainly doesn’t impact the available gold that players have to spend on the item. But by all means... please provide the logic behind how raising the cap would cause all prices to inflate.

I'll just make is simple, they'll use the same rationale they're using here: It's worth what people will pay. As the prices for "desirable" items increases, and people start feeling that influx of currency, they will raise prices on other things as well.

Which has nothing to do with raising/removing the price cap.

In Rappelz, when I first started, empty pet cards were running around a million rupee each, that's the ingame currency. This was 15 years ago. The last time I played, those same cards were 10 million each. These aren't extravagant end game pets, but basic pets. The extravagant pets were much much higher. Empty dragon cards running in the 100s of millions. This, with a 0.00001% chance to actually tame it, if it were that even that good. Basic equipment was listing for billions. This, with the high probability, if you're not using the cash shop to win, of the item breaking during enchantment, and being unusable unless you can repair it, which also has to be purchased from the cash shop, or other players listing those items on the AH. Yeah, you're not getting those items cheap.

Please explain how this inflation was due to increasing/removing a price cap.

The net result, with no real sinks, was that everything on the AH started getting more and more expensive, to the point where, if you don't have a few billion rupee, you're not buying anything significant. Players that weren't generating enough income could just hit their wallet, and list things on the AH, slightly undercutting someone else, and get to where they too could list things for high prices too. We don't have to worry about the equipment here, but one can already see wildly fluctuating prices on the TP, what happens when that cap is removed? We already have people using third party sites to facilitate these trades, and frankly, since the taxes would increase with the sale price, those will continue anyway, so it doesn't really accomplish what the OP thinks it will. People desiring to avoid the tax will move to the third party sites, and the rest will "lose" money on their transactions. This isn't even my 10th MMO, let alone my first. I've seen what an unchecked economy can do to a game, and I'd prefer to not see it again.

You're failing to identify how removing a price cap causes inflation.

Also be aware that the GW2 economy has been fairly stable.

It wasn't. It was due to not having one at all, a point I am fairly certain I made in my first post, that got lost in the "but I want this, so I have to support it no matter what". The limitation is removed by simply not being there in the first place, and this is the end result. The same will be true for this. Players needing to raise the cash for these heavily inflated prices will raise the prices on whatever they can in order to raise the currency they need. This already happens, look at any item with tons of listings, and check out the price ranges they hit.

Well then prove that this cap is necessary in GW2. It just seems that a hyperbole is being used to create fear that removing the cap will somehow cause issues when 99.99% of the items in the game don't even break 5K and have remained fairly stable over the years.

Why does maintaining the status quo require proof? Prove that removing or raising this cap will improve the quality of life for everyone playing. The burden of proof isn't on me, I have the devs in my corner, as it were, since they put it in when they designed the market.

You made the claim that removing/increasing the price cap would cause prices for everything to increase. I'm simply asking you to back up that claim.

I already have. However, since prices in game aren't in the billions for items, even going off the grid to sell them, I'd say this system is working rather well. So, since you're pushing for a change, how about you support your claim that it won't happen. It's going to be a hard row, though, since we have statements in this thread that people are trading on third party websites to bypass both the limit and the taxes. I'm frankly surprised that ANet allows that, which they must, if people are going to post about it publicly, most MMOs discourage that kind of thing.

You haven’t. Nothing you have stated has backed up any correlation between a price cap raising and it being the cause to inflation of items.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it wasn't provided. How much are items being sold for on 3rd party sites now? How many people actually know about them, let alone use them. I found out about them because of this thread. I still haven't felt the need to go look. What happens if the cap is raised, and those items can be listed on the TP instead? For the most part, nothing is going to change for some people, because they'll still "cheat the system" by selling off site. For others, they'll start listing those items for what they think people think they're worth, and people that want them, even if they think they're too high, will start jacking up the prices of what they're selling in order to get the funds for those items. The irony is that, in an effort to control the prices, those with the funds, the "TP Barons", will buy up everything they can that's below what they're trying to get the prices to and relist them. This will include items listed by people that are just jacking up the price to acquire funds for that one thing they want.

It's not a matter of not liking your answer but the fact that you never provided one that actually backed up your claim.

So they'll be like "check it out, all those items I overpriced sold, I can jack up the price a bit more". This isn't some power fantasy for how trading through an AH system works, this is playing more than one MMO, and knowing it's how it works when there's a centralized place to sell these items, instead of an ESO type system, where there's not, and players still have to actually win a vendor to sell their goods. I started with Rappelz. In the Neverwinter MMO, it took exactly two weeks for this trend to start. swtor is no better. There was a single pair of gloves listed for 9 million credits. In swtor, these gloves had no special properties, at all. They are effectively a skin, with modification slots. They didn't have any extra slots, just a name, and a look.

You do realize that players can put their sell posts below those overpriced orders? That the supply for 99% of the items in the game cannot be controlled by players? I can currently list a pair of gloves that are of white quality on the TP for 10K gold. This doesn't mean that the price actually inflated to that amount. You're completely ignoring that players are free to undercut my listing with their own sell orders or that mine will never sell because there are so many lower than it.