My honest feelings about map mob difficulty in PoF

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Oh I need to explain the point to you. The point was after seeing him/her possibly getting upset to not let the same guys upset them again since it was kinda their fault for bringing this thread back from the dead. 

Cool, clear now. The "came running back" seemed rather backhanded, which is why I thought you're trying to suggest something else.

Quote

And the dude you asked for examples from when he was talking about perm in combat was dragonfall which I knew exactly what he meant. The undead sections aggro range of worms archers and fleshreavers. It's also why I had the 1000 kill achieve from that section and only about 500 kills from the other 2 sections and if you played that map you wouldn't have to ask him to explain how some might find that section more annoying nor I to explain a pretty basic paragraph just cause I name dropped you from memory of how hard you were on the opposite side of the op.

If you're trying to say I didn't/don't play those maps then you're wrong. If I just saw that problem in general in those zones, I wouldn't repeatedly ask that question. So I keep asking in hopes of finally having that described more accurately, seeing how I don't have a problem with gathering/engaging/remounting there. And that's my point in asking that question.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jilora.9524]

13 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Cool, clear now. The "came running back" seemed rather backhanded, which is why I thought you're trying to suggest something else.

If you're trying to say I didn't/don't play those maps then you're wrong. If I just saw that problem in general in those zones, I wouldn't repeatedly ask that question. So I keep asking in hopes of finally having that described more accurately, seeing how I don't have a problem with gathering/engaging/remounting there. And that's my point in asking that question.

I guess if you look for technical ways to get offended. Came running back. Rejoined the thread. etc. Same with if you played that map meaning idk if you did or didn't not you def didn't well at least Dragonfall but if you did I would think you might of noticed that the undead sections aggro range seemed much larger then the nature and fire sections because I sure did but maybe you really didn't again idk. But just because someone didn't notice an issue doesn't mean I or someone else can't.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Jilora.9524

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

you def didn't well at least Dragonfall

You say you don't know and then you make up a claim like this, so not sure if I'm "looking for something" here or is it you just making up random stuff.

3 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

But just because someone didn't notice an issue doesn't mean I or someone else can't.

Yes, that's exactly why I keep asking.

 

Anyways, clearly nothing new in this thread for now.

[Jilora.9524]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You say you don't know and then you make up a claim like this, so not sure if I'm "looking for something" here or is it you just making up random stuff.

Yes, that's exactly why I keep asking.

 

Anyways, clearly nothing new in this thread for now.

Why would you remove the idk if you did or you didn't. Meaning I knew you played PoF but i didn't know for sure about dragonfall. Man it's hard to converse if you remove parts of sentences so you can get upset or see hidden insults.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Pockethole.5031 said:

Her, but anyway.
I am NOT demanding everyone to play how they want.
I'm offering a SOLUTION to play how they want, should the mob difficulty be lowered.
Your tight kitten just read it as offensive because I offered my criticism towards your religion that is the game. Don't take it personally, because it has absolutely nothing to do with your being. And for the (hopefully) last time I know how to play.

Please note that it doesn't work the other way around: since it's more difficult to just breathe and exist in the desert with all the mobs, because everything is annoying (or hard, these words have same meaning to me in this context) a casual player is forced to be hardcore. While hardcore players are like "yay, combat, I want to gather some wood and I need to kill 5 mobs from around it, hell yes I love this torture!" that means casual players... are simply not enjoying the same experience.
Why is that so hard to understand?
If it was easier to do all that, the hc players could increase the difficulty of it - should they wish so - by wearing blue gear. But there is no easy way out for casual players to make the experience more enjoyable as things are.
Now do you get it? This isn't fair for all of the playerbase. And you don't have to defend Anet's choices or whatever. I'm just offering my kittening feedback, and it's up to them if they want to take it. 

I would be so glad if they could implement open world difficulty choice system. Nobody would need to get their pants in a twist about this subject ever again, granted the system would work flawlessly.

And again. I know how to play. You can keep saying it, if you want to attempt annoying me, but I'm still as good player as I will ever be. I look at other people's builds (yes, open world), I also make my own, and all I'm missing is ascended gear, griffon, skyscale and beetle. And even if I did get all that, it wouldn't make the mobs much less annoying. The desert maps will still feel repulsive.
And at this point I start a dialog with imaginary opponent.
"Then the problem is you"
No, there are clearly other people who take issue with mob density/aggro range. The overall annoyance of it. 


If you refuse to give more casual playerbase their own space, then you're ignorant, or gatekeeper, or even toxic. I guess it depends on the person who thinks casual players don't matter.

And if you didn't read anything I wrote, then you're just fighting here for the sake of itself. And I'm not here for that reason.

 

Tl;dr: triggered.

 

Anyhow, all for reducing aggro range to HoT levels which should help with your issues.

[Sobx.1758]

15 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Why would you remove the idk if you did or you didn't. Meaning I knew you played PoF but i didn't know for sure about dragonfall. Man it's hard to converse if you remove parts of sentences so you can get upset or see hidden insults.

Why do you pretend "idk" matters there, when you make the claim "you def didn't well at least Dragonfall". Might be my misunderstanding, but by "def", I understand "definitely". And that nullifies any "idk" you try to weave in for whatever reason. That's why I didn't include "idk" -because due to words you've used, that "idk" meant nothing. If you "don't know", then don't try to tell me I "definitely" didn't do something. Hopefully that makes sense to you, because that's what "definitely" means. If that's not what you've meant by including "def" in that sentence, then I don't understand what you've meant. Anyways, yes, I did play there and despite that I'm still asking the question I did before to understand what exactly was the problem for the people I was responding to.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jilora.9524]

16 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Why do you pretend "idk" matters there, when you make the claim "you def didn't well at least Dragonfall". Might be my misunderstanding, but by "def", I understand "definitely". And that nullifies any "idk" you try to weave in for whatever reason. That's why I didn't include "idk" -because due to words you've used, that "idk" meant nothing. If you "don't know", then don't try to tell me I "definitely" didn't do something. Hopefully that makes sense to you, because that's what "definitely" means. If that's not what you've meant by including "def" in that sentence, then I don't understand what you've meant. Anyways, yes, I did play there and despite that I'm still asking the question I did before to understand what exactly was the problem for the people I was responding to.

omg. You removed "not". You took offense to me saying if you played that map assuming for some reason I meant you didn't not idk if you did or didn't. At that time Idk if you did or didn't play dragonfall and only knew you played PoF from memory of the thread 1 year ago. Like again stop taking words away from sentences and maybe you won't see things that aren't there.

[Linken.6345]

6 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

omg. You removed "not". You took offense to me saying if you played that map assuming for some reason I meant you didn't not idk if you did or didn't. At that time Idk if you did or didn't play dragonfall and only knew you played PoF from memory of the thread 1 year ago. Like again stop taking words away from sentences and maybe you won't see things that aren't there.

To be fair that sentence sound kinda like your going back and forth and make no sence.

So it is easy to miss understand it.

[Jilora.9524]

1 minute ago, Linken.6345 said:

To be fair that sentence sound kinda like your going back and forth and make no sence.

So it is easy to miss understand it.

I don't know if you did or didn't not that you definitely didn't is confusing? Sure ok. I give up then. 

[Linken.6345]

yea you dont know if they did

or did not

Then you throw in that they  definitely didn't do it.

Thats 3 twists and turns stoping with that they for sure couldent possibly have played the map

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, Jilora.9524 said:

I don't know if you did or didn't not that you definitely didn't is confusing? Sure ok. I give up then. 

See, for example I actually have no idea what your question here is exactly supposed to mean.

I didn't try to cut something out to pretend you said something you didn,t. It's like @Linken.6345 said, your post is hard to understand. Maybe it's about the lack of punctuation, maybe about your choice of words -whatever it is, it's easy to unintentionally interpret it in multiple ways. Try making shorter, more coherent sentences and we'll be k. I already explained how and why I understood what you wrote in your previous posts, that's all there is to it.

[Obtena.7952]

On 8/27/2021 at 4:54 PM, Pockethole.5031 said:

So I'm the clown that comes back after all this. And I'm the clown that still thinks the same.

Unfortunately, the answers that were given previously in the thread are still relevant. I don't understand the point of your necro of your thread ... unless you just want to be piled on with the same responses you had before. I'm certain that whatever we get in EoD, the mob density and aggro will be appropriate to the STORY that the zone is part of. IF that's difficult to you to handle, I can only assume you still choose to not learn how to play to deal with the mobs or not have situational awareness of the areas you are in to avoid them.

 

The zones in question in this thread are not gardens for people to walk through and look at the flowers. They are populated appropriately to give the feel of the zones they are INTENDED to be, like the STORY suggests. We are talking about warzones here ... so if you want to believe you shouldn't have to encounter mobs that have heightened awareness with trigger fingers ... you obviously aren't understanding the story they are intended to portray. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[radda.8920]

16 hours ago, Pockethole.5031 said:

Her, but anyway.
I am NOT demanding everyone to play how they want.
I'm offering a SOLUTION to play how they want, should the mob difficulty be lowered.
Your tight kitten just read it as offensive because I offered my criticism towards your religion that is the game. Don't take it personally, because it has absolutely nothing to do with your being. And for the (hopefully) last time I know how to play.

Please note that it doesn't work the other way around: since it's more difficult to just breathe and exist in the desert with all the mobs, because everything is annoying (or hard, these words have same meaning to me in this context) a casual player is forced to be hardcore. While hardcore players are like "yay, combat, I want to gather some wood and I need to kill 5 mobs from around it, hell yes I love this torture!" that means casual players... are simply not enjoying the same experience.
Why is that so hard to understand?
If it was easier to do all that, the hc players could increase the difficulty of it - should they wish so - by wearing blue gear. But there is no easy way out for casual players to make the experience more enjoyable as things are.
Now do you get it? This isn't fair for all of the playerbase. And you don't have to defend Anet's choices or whatever. I'm just offering my kittening feedback, and it's up to them if they want to take it. 

I would be so glad if they could implement open world difficulty choice system. Nobody would need to get their pants in a twist about this subject ever again, granted the system would work flawlessly.

And again. I know how to play. You can keep saying it, if you want to attempt annoying me, but I'm still as good player as I will ever be. I look at other people's builds (yes, open world), I also make my own, and all I'm missing is ascended gear, griffon, skyscale and beetle. And even if I did get all that, it wouldn't make the mobs much less annoying. The desert maps will still feel repulsive.
And at this point I start a dialog with imaginary opponent.
"Then the problem is you"
No, there are clearly other people who take issue with mob density/aggro range. The overall annoyance of it. 


If you refuse to give more casual playerbase their own space, then you're ignorant, or gatekeeper, or even toxic. I guess it depends on the person who thinks casual players don't matter.

And if you didn't read anything I wrote, then you're just fighting here for the sake of itself. And I'm not here for that reason.

 

keep training in queensdale and come back to the desert when you have learned to dodge, to adapt your build, to play with others, to move efficiently in space

It seems to me to be a good solution, if you are not good enough for these areas yet, improve yourself like everyone else

 

If you refuse to give more casual playerbase their own space, then you're ignorant, or gatekeeper, or even toxic. I guess it depends on the person who thinks casual players don't matter.

 

this game is already 95% designed for casual players. you must not have played many other mmo, not to notice it ... the desert areas of POF are finishable by using 3 keys of your keyboard

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by radda.8920

[Jilora.9524]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

See, for example I actually have no idea what your question here is exactly supposed to mean.

I didn't try to cut something out to pretend you said something you didn,t. It's like @Linken.6345 said, your post is hard to understand. Maybe it's about the lack of punctuation, maybe about your choice of words -whatever it is, it's easy to unintentionally interpret it in multiple ways. Try making shorter, more coherent sentences and we'll be k. I already explained how and why I understood what you wrote in your previous posts, that's all there is to it.

What? I really got to break everything down.

You cut the sentences in half or removed words. Doing that at any point can change meaning or context.

I didn't know if you played the map or not. Not that I definitely knew you played the map. Or that I assumed you didn't play the map.

Yeah maybe it's a missing comma. Did you really read it as didn't not basically 2 nots in a row because a comma wasn't there?

Does this fix it?

I did not know if you did or did not, not that you def did not.

Or maybe your most recent bafflement.

Adding is confusing with a ? means did you find the words prior confusing? 

I don't know if you did or didn't, not that you definitely didn't. Is that sentence confusing to you?

That was my last attempt. 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Jilora.9524

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

What? I really got to break everything down.

You cut the sentences in half or removed words. Doing that at any point can change meaning or context.

I didn't know if you played the map or not. Not that I definitely knew you played the map. Or that I assumed you didn't play the map.

Yeah maybe it's a missing comma. Did you really read it as didn't not basically 2 nots in a row because a comma wasn't there?

Does this fix it?

I did not know if you did or did not, not that you def did not.

Or maybe your most recent bafflement.

Adding is confusing with a ? means did you find the words prior confusing? 

I don't know if you did or didn't, not that you definitely didn't. Is that sentence confusing to you?

That was my last attempt.

Do you understand that you don't need to keep re-axplaining the same thing? You've already explained what you've meant, I just told you why I understood it the way I did. So no, you don't need to break everything down.

And despite playing those maps quite extensively, I still didn't have/see a problem with being constantly kept in-combat unless it was one of the overly long lasting conditions and I somehow lacked condi clear -but pretty sure I already mentioned something about that in the past.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jilora.9524]

9 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Do you understand that you don't need to keep re-axplaining the same thing? You've already explained what you've meant, I just told you why I understood it the way I did. So no, you don't need to break everything down.

And despite playing those maps quite extensively, I still didn't have a problem with being constantly kept in-combat unless it was one of the overly long lasting conditions and I somehow lacked condi clear -but pretty sure I already mentioned something about that in the past.

Yeah ok. Just tryna add punctuation and explanations for the confused because there are 2 of you. See I keep explaining because you write stuff like try writing smaller more coherent sentences which makes me try to explain in smaller coherent sentences. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Jilora.9524

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Yeah ok. Just tryna add punctuation and explanations for the confused because there are 2 of you. See I keep explaining because you write stuff like try writing smaller more coherent sentences which makes me try to explain in smaller coherent sentences. 

I was saying that about the previous posts I misunderstood.

[Xephir.7635]

I used to think POF maps were hard, but now that I know my classes in and out, know more about mechanics, dont spam my dodge button, and attack efficiently, I can say they are not hard. But yes sometimes you are fighting some mob and here comes this Shark or this effing Hydra and surprise attacks you, which is annoying since they get aggroed from so far away.

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, Jilora.9524 said:

What? I really got to break everything down.

You cut the sentences in half or removed words. Doing that at any point can change meaning or context.

I didn't know if you played the map or not. Not that I definitely knew you played the map. Or that I assumed you didn't play the map.

Yeah maybe it's a missing comma. Did you really read it as didn't not basically 2 nots in a row because a comma wasn't there?

Does this fix it?

I did not know if you did or did not, not that you def did not.

Or maybe your most recent bafflement.

Adding is confusing with a ? means did you find the words prior confusing? 

I don't know if you did or didn't, not that you definitely didn't. Is that sentence confusing to you?

That was my last attempt. 

 

For me I cant see why not just saying.

I did not know if you did or did not. 

And end it there why add the extra fluff behind it?

[Jilora.9524]

14 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

For me I cant see why not just saying.

I did not know if you did or did not. 

And end it there why add the extra fluff behind it?

Sure maybe I added too much or could have said it differently

Basically because it started with me saying if you played that map.

He took that as I  meant he didn't.

So I meant I didn't know if you did or didn't not that you def didn't. Missing a comma or could've broke into 2 sentences..

You both broke that sentence down the same way.

Idk if you did or didn't not that, you def didn't at least dragonfall instead of

Idk if you did or didn't, not that you def didn't at least dragonfall

I mean not everyone thinks the same way. In my mind it made sense and in your minds it didn't. I just will never be able to see how you both got you def didn't play dragonfall out of it and I doubt we will ever agree so it's ok.

 

[Pockethole.5031]

4 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

 

keep training in queensdale and come back to the desert when you have learned to dodge, to adapt your build, to play with others, to move efficiently in space

It seems to me to be a good solution, if you are not good enough for these areas yet, improve yourself like everyone else

 

 

Me: have all HoT masteries (and 100% map completion on old Tyria and HoT maps), mounts up to Jackal, knows her kitten around open world
The masteries btw: https://imgur.com/a/od9kLx2 

Everyone else: lol learn to play noob

Me: ???

You people just refuse to read what I write because it's easier to gatekeep and judge that I'm worthless instead of acknowledging my points and actually struggle to come up with a decent argument, because you know I'm not wrong.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Pockethole.5031

[voltaicbore.8012]

It's a shame that this remains in an "us vs them" discussion when I think most of us are actually in agreement about the core issue: the way PoF mobs are currently placed, patrol, and aggro is pretty annoying.

I believe there is a way to respect the sense of a desperate situation in Elona (as @Obtena.7952put it) while still toning down the annoyance. For instance, a few steps from Amnoon's walls, gathering nodes are often surrounded by scarabs and sand lion packs. Easy to survive, sure, but they're annoying, and that annoyance doesn't seem to serve any compelling purpose. There's a lot of comparable low level annoyance going around the PoF maps, and I don't think we'd lose much (if anything) by removing that sort of thing from many places.

However, I think it's entirely fair to disagree with the assessment that the mobs are too hard. I just don't think that is objectively true. On a tanky condition build and exotic gear across several classes, I could win these annoying chained fights pretty easily with keyboard turning and skill clicking. I don't play that way normally, but tested that out just to see if the slower pace and reaction time would make the region unplayable. The only thing I didn't do was measure my actions per second/minute, but I'd be shocked if that turned out to be unattainably high for almost every player.

I don't mean this as a personal affront to you, @Pockethole.5031, but I'm certain there must be something going on that is preventing you from taking reasonable advantage of the combat system. The other game I play the most at the moment is Black Desert, and NA players generally have terrible desync issues in that game. I recently found out that mine were particularly egregious, thanks to a fellow guildmate dueling me and recording the fight. I watched their playback, and it was like watching an entirely different fight. It went a long way to explain why I kept missing key moves, while also failing to counter key incoming attacks. So in the end it may not even be a personal skill thing at all - maybe it's ping, desync, or simply not knowing things like certain of your own skills interfering with each other due to priority.

In keeping with that, without a full picture of what's going on, I'm NOT saying it's a skill issue on your end. It could be a number of different issues. All I can say is that on a good stable connection with several self-imposed handicaps, I did not fight the fights as nearly as hazardous as you consistently describe them. I also believe the level of gameplay I subjected myself to is attainable by most players. I take issue with the contention that anyone who can easily handle PoF mobs is some kind of combat-drunk elitist who should run through easier zones in blue gear.

[ASP.8093]

10 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

It's a shame that this remains in an "us vs them" discussion when I think most of us are actually in agreement about the core issue: the way PoF mobs are currently placed, patrol, and aggro is pretty annoying.

I like it. It feels "lived in."

 

Being able to cherrypick which enemies you're gonna fight while a bunch more passively stand around a mere 100 feet away has never really sat well with me.

[Obtena.7952]

27 minutes ago, Pockethole.5031 said:

You people just refuse to read what I write because it's easier to gatekeep and judge that I'm worthless instead of acknowledging my points and actually struggle to come up with a decent argument, because you know I'm not wrong.

That's just being sensational and ironically, ignoring the points OTHERS have made to you on why they disagree.

 

Honestly, I believe you do think what you say about how you feel, but the zone design and mobs are fine as it is because:

 

1. Aggro range reflects the situation in the maps you are talking about

2. Mob placement and activity reflects the situation in the maps you are talking about. 

3. These things aren't a problem at a level of play or situational awareness of the zones that should be accessible to the vast majority of the playerbase. 

 

Again, these are not pleasant gardens you stroll through to watch the gardens grow ... they are warzones and in some cases, contain multiple factions of enemies. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

20 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

It's a shame that this remains in an "us vs them" discussion when I think most of us are actually in agreement about the core issue: the way PoF mobs are currently placed, patrol, and aggro is pretty annoying.

No, not really. It makes sense to me in those zones and as such, they're part of why they feel more immersive. I don't see it as annoying and simply didn't notice being locked in combat/unable to mount like some of the other people claim they are. So I disagree, because my experience is different from the descibed as something prevalent in those zones.