Bow - the privileged weapon

[bethekey.8314]

Projectiles have a maximum range. Most projectiles disappear at their maximum range. Bows keep going well beyond their maximum range.

As a result, shortbow, categorized as a mid-range weapon, actually has a massive range greater than 1200. Its stated range is 900.

Why are bows not bound by the same rules as other weapons?

[Miguron.3067]

Well i think you are Just seeing the projectile, Have you tested this ?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Arcing projectiles have always done such ie shooting from elevated areas lead to greater range. Its good they dont just disappear at max range while in flight.

[bethekey.8314]

@Miguron.3067 said:Well i think you are Just seeing the projectile, Have you tested this ?

Yes.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Arcing projectiles have always done such ie shooting from elevated areas lead to greater range. Its good they dont just disappear at max range while in flight.

I mostly play engineer. Elixir F is an arcing projectile. Elixir F disappears at max range. So that's wrong.

Regardless of being wrong, it doesn't justify the behavior.

Explain why bows being privileged over other weapons/skills is good.

[pikachu.2510]

@bethekey.8314 said:

Explain why bows being privileged over other weapons/skills is good.

Fireball on Eles states 1200 range but does go a bit further than that

[bethekey.8314]

@pikachu.2510 said:Fireball on Eles states 1200 range but does go a bit further than that

Cool. Toss it in with bows for things that should be brought in line.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@bethekey.8314 said:

@Miguron.3067 said:Well i think you are Just seeing the projectile, Have you tested this ?

Yes.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Arcing projectiles have always done such ie shooting from elevated areas lead to greater range. Its good they dont just disappear at max range while in flight.

I mostly play engineer. Elixir F is an arcing projectile. Elixir F disappears at max range. So that's wrong.

Regardless of being wrong, it doesn't justify the behavior.

Explain why bows being privileged over other weapons/skills is good.

Lmao no it isn't wrong, 7 yr player here but thanks. Simple gw2 projectile search answers ur question. Most projectiles travel further when activated from a elevated hight. So umm.Many have asked ur same question and many been answered the same, projectiles or most have them have always traveled further when shot from heights. bows in particular since that's ur issue have always acted like this and won't change.

[Abyssisis.3971]

I personally think it’s to make up for all the obstructed and buggy line of sight issues ranged weapons have to deal with.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

its pretty wonky but anet are likely to leave the issue unresolved and probably not even talk about it. tbh i don't find it to big of a deal seeing as how teleports / leaps pretty much eliminate any advantage range provides.

[Leonidrex.5649]

its not proj arcing, LB for example goes way over intended range on flat ground, heck it goes over its range when shooting UP or down.1500 range should be 1500 range and thats it

[Disney.7826]

Stop posting false information.

Also, elixir F doesnt even exist

[Jobber.6348]

I think it has to do with windup animation + player movement.

The projectile doesn't really leave the bow until the cast of the skill/auto is complete, and the player is free to move a tad before this happens.It could be a huge buggy mess where the bow calculates the projectile leaving from the new position of the player.

This doesn't happen to rifles because rifles don't have a draw animation to "buffer" on.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

Rev hammer AA used to go a bit past 1200 range too, but they removed that years ago. Honestly, I don't see why the rest can't be brought in line as well, if anything just for consistency. Ports eliminating the advantage range has is another issue, it's annoying to be out of max range but not really out of max range. Ultimately a very minor thing, but annoying none the less.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Rev hammer AA used to go a bit past 1200 range too, but they removed that years ago. Honestly, I don't see why the rest can't be brought in line as well, if anything just for consistency. Ports eliminating the advantage range has is another issue, it's annoying to be out of max range but not really out of max range. Ultimately a very minor thing, but annoying none the less.

dont do down the road

steal is 1200, and set.

swipe is 600 and set.

next we make all ports follow this rule and not work out of range.

just, don't

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Rev hammer AA used to go a bit past 1200 range too, but they removed that years ago. Honestly, I don't see why the rest can't be brought in line as well, if anything just for consistency. Ports eliminating the advantage range has is another issue, it's annoying to be out of max range but not really out of max range. Ultimately a very minor thing, but annoying none the less.

dont do down the road

steal is 1200, and set.

swipe is 600 and set.

next we make all ports follow this rule and not work out of range.

just, don't

There are reasons why Steal is set at 1200 range, and nobody said anything about making targetted ports range restricted. That already happened once with Phase Traversal and it was immediately reverted, so don't try to argue slippery slope nonsense when the topic is ranged weapons.

There would be no harm in making ranged weapons follow their range listings or just update the tooltip to show the maximum possible range; it's about making sure people know what ranges they are safe from range attacks not just knee jerk nerfing. Also ports working out of range don't still hit you when they're out of listed range like some projectiles, so there's another hole in your comparison.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Rev hammer AA used to go a bit past 1200 range too, but they removed that years ago. Honestly, I don't see why the rest can't be brought in line as well, if anything just for consistency. Ports eliminating the advantage range has is another issue, it's annoying to be out of max range but not really out of max range. Ultimately a very minor thing, but annoying none the less.

dont do down the road

steal is 1200, and set.

swipe is 600 and set.

next we make all ports follow this rule and not work out of range.

just, don't

There are reasons why Steal is set at 1200 range, and nobody said anything about making targetted ports range restricted. That already happened once with Phase Traversal and it was immediately reverted, so don't try to argue slippery slope nonsense when the topic is ranged weapons.

There would be no harm in making ranged weapons follow their range listings or just update the tooltip to show the maximum possible range; it's about making sure people know what ranges they are safe from range attacks not just knee jerk nerfing. Also ports working out of range don't still hit you when they're out of listed range like some projectiles, so there's another hole in your comparison.

it was reverted because people are way too used to it.

learn the ranges.

deal.

It was reverted because it became instantly awful and meant just using Impossible Odds was always a better option. Targetted ports already have to have a target, making them range restricted would render them strictly inferior to ports like Blink. Anet also lied about the reasoning by calling it a bug and nobody bought it. Try again.

Does it have a listed range?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@bethekey.8314@Leonidrex.5649@"CutesySylveon.8290"

Say it yourselves this time. Fill in the blanks:

"Just _"

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@bethekey.8314@Leonidrex.5649@"CutesySylveon.8290"

Say it yourselves this time. Fill in the blanks:

"Just _"

I play ranger, doesnt change a fact that " proj arcing " is a bullshit excuse for broken skills that go over intended range.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"Leonidrex.5649"

Long range short range is all the same thing when one possesses LOS mastery.

[Abyssisis.3971]

If you want to fix bow skills going beyond intended range, then maybe we also need to fix melee skills being able to cleave though objects as well.

[Cynz.9437]

This is as old as this game lol.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:Rev hammer AA used to go a bit past 1200 range too, but they removed that years ago. Honestly, I don't see why the rest can't be brought in line as well, if anything just for consistency. Ports eliminating the advantage range has is another issue, it's annoying to be out of max range but not really out of max range. Ultimately a very minor thing, but annoying none the less.

dont do down the road

steal is 1200, and set.

swipe is 600 and set.

next we make all ports follow this rule and not work out of range.

just, don't

There are reasons why Steal is set at 1200 range, and nobody said anything about making targetted ports range restricted. That already happened once with Phase Traversal and it was immediately reverted, so don't try to argue slippery slope nonsense when the topic is ranged weapons.

There would be no harm in making ranged weapons follow their range listings or just update the tooltip to show the maximum possible range; it's about making sure people know what ranges they are safe from range attacks not just knee jerk nerfing. Also ports working out of range don't still hit you when they're out of listed range like some projectiles, so there's another hole in your comparison.

it was reverted because people are way too used to it.

learn the ranges.

deal.

It was reverted because it became instantly awful and meant just using Impossible Odds was always a better option. Targetted ports already have to have a target, making them range restricted would render them strictly inferior to ports like Blink. Anet also lied about the reasoning by calling it a bug and nobody bought it. Try again.

Does it have a listed range?

1200, but targetted ports besides Steal are usable outside of their max range as gap closers. They don't hit people beyond their max ranges tho. Both of these are two different topics anyway. It wouldn't hurt anything to have projectiles hit at their listed ranges, and if they don't want to do that then update the tooltips so people know when they're safe at set ranges.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Abyssisis.3971 said:If you want to fix bow skills going beyond intended range, then maybe we also need to fix melee skills being able to cleave though objects as well.

That would actually be a really good thing.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Leonidrex.5649"

Long range short range is all the same thing when one possesses LOS mastery.

Not really, we just had a video post in the Lich section of a guy getting hit around the pillar for like 5k. LoS for projectiles is about as reliable as Pathing for ports, which is to say they aren't for either party.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Leonidrex.5649"

Long range short range is all the same thing when one possesses LOS mastery.

Not really, we just had a video post in the Lich section of a guy getting hit around the pillar for like 5k. LoS for projectiles is about as reliable as Pathing for ports, which is to say they aren't for either party.

Lich vs. normal projectiles is not at all the same thing. The auto 1s off of Lich at close range while kiting around small diameter LOS does tend to be somewhat magical and reach around to hit. As a Ranger main I've been noticing this during LOS wars for years, as I'm sure others have as well. Shroud 1 doesn't do same thing, Ele spells do not do same thing. Normal projectiles do not do the same thing. The Lich projectiles are somehow "Sticky" or I don't know how else to word it. That or possibly the origin point of Lich 1 auto is happening more towards the point of where the Lich's arm reaches way out, rather than from the center of the Lich vector itself. <- If the later is true, this means people are trying to judge their LOS safety from where the Lich's center body is behind an LOS but in reality his arm is reaching around or through an LOS to create where the auto 1 is actually coming from, which is why people get hit easily during close ranged LOS. It's similar to when melee skills go through obstacles to things on the other side.

Even when a Lich is a 1500 range from you, across the other side of mid Legacy, somehow their autos just hit. Like you can strafe left and right sporadically and confuse the AI of normal projectiles like say a LB 1 auto or a SB 1 auto or even Unloaded or Rapid Fire, but somehow the Lich auto 1 just hits. Again, the only way I can think to word it is it's "Sticky". And it isn't following you in the same way Shroud 1 would, it just somehow hits almost like at the end of its pathing, it explodes like a Fireball with an AoE or something, even though the graphics don't show it.

LOSing vs everything else works fine.