Follow Up to May 11 Balance Preview

[hash.8462]

With this patch a 30 second boon limit has been added to all boons but regeneration (as far as I can see, it seems to be soft capped to 60 seconds)...

Since there is already an anomaly to the rule, can we also have swiftness working at the same way of regeneration or at least give it a cap of 60 seconds?

 

[Heika.5403]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You do realize that this difference (Adept vs Master vs Grandmaster) had only any meaning in the original trait system, where you could pick incomplete traitlines, and slot lower tier skills into higher tier slots? Now, when you use the whole traitline, and can pick only traits with that tier, it no longer matters whether the trait is adept, master or grandmaster. All that matters is how strong it is compared to other 2 skills in the same tier of the same traitline.

 

In other words, there's no point in considering whether Diabolic Inferno and Fiendish Tenacity are "worth being a grandmaster trait". What should be considered is how they compare to each other, and to Permeating Pestilence. And, of course, whether they are worthy of being a trait at all.

 

Then put everywhere traits at the level of the adept ones and adept minor ones and watch the result. So I'm not agree. Analyzing the different tiers it is clear that they are there and continue to exist. And changes like Diabolic Inferno and Fiendish Tenacity hurt a lot. Those added to the resistance change affect the whole Corruption line highly making it a lot weaker. Including the torment in competitive modes. 

 

Anyways, when the next expansion is released, we will watch if the tier importance is still there or not for Arenanet.  If they release the new specializations with the most useful and/or powerful traits in the Grandmaster tiers, then it will be a confirmation that they still maintain the importance and relevance of the tier in the trait lines. They themselves commented in their day that they continued to maintain that philosophy so that the player could see better or understand the value of each tier in their choice.  The time will show it.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Heika.5403

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

57 minutes ago, hash.8462 said:

With this patch a 30 second boon limit has been added to all boons but regeneration (as far as I can see, it seems to be soft capped to 60 seconds)...

Since there is already an anomaly to the rule, can we also have swiftness working at the same way of regeneration or at least give it a cap of 60 seconds?

 

Stability, and Aegis as well. I think there is one more that skirted the boon cap.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Some thoughts on Warrior:

First off, thank you to ANet for your continued support for this game and for listening to your community's feedback!  We appreciate your dedication to the game and your fans!

 

Also, a shout out to Lan Deathrider and some of the others who have posted some very excellent and thoughtful suggestions--you guys raised excellent points and I hope they get adopted.

 

My suggestions are primarily oriented toward PvP and WvW, but I think would benefit PvE as well.  

 

1.) Buff Defense Trait Line

This has been a common theme in earlier posts, and I wholeheartedly agree.  Warrior suffers from lack of sustain (esp against condi) in PvP settings, and reworking the 300s CD traits to provide resolution would be a great way to address this.  And, since Hardened Armor will theoretically give 10% dmg reduction while resolution is active, this could greatly improve Warrior's survivability.  I'd also like to see a little better condition clear for warrior--Improving Cleansing Ire to clear 2 conditions per bar of adrenaline, for instance, would be a nice touch.

 

Buffing Defense would be huge for warrior, as it would grant improved viability to Core, Berserker, and (potentially) Spellbreaker.  Thus, you could indirectly "buff" all three variations of warrior without necessarily reworking Berserker's/SB's skills/traits, etc.  Buffing Defense would be a very efficient way of improving warrior as a whole.

 

2.) Reduce Shake It Off's CD from 75 to 60s/charge

Shake It Off is virtually essential on every PvP warrior's utility bar, both as a stun break as well as "emergency cleanse" for all the condi spam that is rampant there.  The current 75s/charge CD is really punitive; reducing it modestly to 60s would grant Warrior a little more survivability in the face of CC locks and condi spam while still forcing the player to be judicious in its use.  Again, this is an efficient change in that it would boost all specializations.

 

3.) Rework Mace

Mace currently has several serious deficiencies: lack of damage, lack of mobility, and lack of cleave.  I propose the following changes:

 

Skull Crack:  now has a 300 range leap.  Still 1/2/3 second stun increasing with level of adrenaline

 

Auto Attack Chain:  reduce activation time of 3rd attack from 3/4s to 1/2s

 

Move Crushing Blow to Mace 2:  keep dmg the same, but reduce CD from 12s to 6s.  This is similar to Hammer 2's 4s CD.  Reduce vulnerability from 10 stacks/20 stacks (if foe is disabled) to 5/10.  Still gives 3/6 stacks might.  Alternatively, could replace vulnerability with weakness so it could better synergize with Cull the Weak

 

Combine Counterblow and Pommel Bash into Mace 3:  New Counterblow works just like before, but instead of applying vulnerability it dazes x 1s.

 

[New Skill Mace 4]:  Leap to target and slam mace on the ground, damaging all foes in the area an inflicting cripple and weakness.  Leap range: 300.  Radius of attack: 180.  This grants off-hand mace mobility, cleave dmg, and applies weakness to synergize with Cull the Weak.

 

Tremor:  Now a cone-shaped AOE with range 300 that knocks down foes (3s) and blocks attacks/projectiles (1/2s).  I'm imagining a shockwave of earth rippling forward from the warrior that knocks down players and blocks incoming attacks.  Should be easier to hit players with it.  Also keeps with Mace's conception of being a defensive/CC weapon.

 

These changes keep the same amount of CC and blocks while adding a bit more punch.  This should help Mace become more than a niche CC stick and actually a versatile weapon that can contribute to many builds.  Mace/Shield would be a natural fit for Spellbreaker since each CC strips boons.  The added damage to mainhand mace would make Mace more desirable for hybrid Condi-berserker pvp builds.  And the improved access to Crushing blow (and the might generated from it) would work very well with Core Warriors running Might Makes Right--consider Mace/shield with shield mastery (1 stack of might/block) plus hitting with Crushing blow for 3-6 stacks of might.

 

Such a rework of mace would create a lot of new builds for all three specializations to play with, thus again "buffing" all of them without actually improving any particular specialization.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

46 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Some thoughts on Warrior:

First off, thank you to ANet for your continued support for this game and for listening to your community's feedback!  We appreciate your dedication to the game and your fans!

 

Also, a shout out to Lan Deathrider and some of the others who have posted some very excellent and thoughtful suggestions--you guys raised excellent points and I hope they get adopted.

 

My suggestions are primarily oriented toward PvP and WvW, but I think would benefit PvE as well.  

 

1.) Buff Defense Trait Line

This has been a common theme in earlier posts, and I wholeheartedly agree.  Warrior suffers from lack of sustain (esp against condi) in PvP settings, and reworking the 300s CD traits to provide resolution would be a great way to address this.  And, since Hardened Armor will theoretically give 10% dmg reduction while resolution is active, this could greatly improve Warrior's survivability.  I'd also like to see a little better condition clear for warrior--Improving Cleansing Ire to clear 2 conditions per bar of adrenaline, for instance, would be a nice touch.

 

Buffing Defense would be huge for warrior, as it would grant improved viability to Core, Berserker, and (potentially) Spellbreaker.  Thus, you could indirectly "buff" all three variations of warrior without necessarily reworking Berserker's/SB's skills/traits, etc.  Buffing Defense would be a very efficient way of improving warrior as a whole.

 

2.) Reduce Shake It Off's CD from 75 to 60s/charge

Shake It Off is virtually essential on every PvP warrior's utility bar, both as a stun break as well as "emergency cleanse" for all the condi spam that is rampant there.  The current 75s/charge CD is really punitive; reducing it modestly to 60s would grant Warrior a little more survivability in the face of CC locks and condi spam while still forcing the player to be judicious in its use.  Again, this is an efficient change in that it would boost all specializations.

 

3.) Rework Mace

Mace currently has several serious deficiencies: lack of damage, lack of mobility, and lack of cleave.  I propose the following changes:

 

Skull Crack:  now has a 300 range leap.  Still 1/2/3 second stun increasing with level of adrenaline

 

Auto Attack Chain:  reduce activation time of 3rd attack from 3/4s to 1/2s

 

Move Crushing Blow to Mace 2:  keep dmg the same, but reduce CD from 12s to 6s.  This is similar to Hammer 2's 4s CD.  Reduce vulnerability from 10 stacks/20 stacks (if foe is disabled) to 5/10.  Still gives 3/6 stacks might.  Alternatively, could replace vulnerability with weakness so it could better synergize with Cull the Weak

 

Combine Counterblow and Pommel Bash into Mace 3:  New Counterblow works just like before, but instead of applying vulnerability it dazes x 1s.

 

[New Skill Mace 4]:  Leap to target and slam mace on the ground, damaging all foes in the area an inflicting cripple and weakness.  Leap range: 300.  Radius of attack: 180.  This grants off-hand mace mobility, cleave dmg, and applies weakness to synergize with Cull the Weak.

 

Tremor:  Now a cone-shaped AOE with range 300 that knocks down foes (3s) and blocks attacks/projectiles (1/2s).  I'm imagining a shockwave of earth rippling forward from the warrior that knocks down players and blocks incoming attacks.  Should be easier to hit players with it.  Also keeps with Mace's conception of being a defensive/CC weapon.

 

These changes keep the same amount of CC and blocks while adding a bit more punch.  This should help Mace become more than a niche CC stick and actually a versatile weapon that can contribute to many builds.  Mace/Shield would be a natural fit for Spellbreaker since each CC strips boons.  The added damage to mainhand mace would make Mace more desirable for hybrid Condi-berserker pvp builds.  And the improved access to Crushing blow (and the might generated from it) would work very well with Core Warriors running Might Makes Right--consider Mace/shield with shield mastery (1 stack of might/block) plus hitting with Crushing blow for 3-6 stacks of might.

 

Such a rework of mace would create a lot of new builds for all three specializations to play with, thus again "buffing" all of them without actually improving any particular specialization.

Thanks for the callout!

A lot of warriors have been putting thought into what the class needs and not necessarily what we want. There is a long running (now) request thread we've been putting together: 

 Bear in mind those aren't "we want this because we want unicorn magic" type of things, they are "we need these things for actual viability" type of things.

It isn't a "Lan's Wishlist" thread either, but a warrior community effort.

[hash.8462]

8 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Stability, and Aegis as well. I think there is one more that skirted the boon cap.

You are right, but Might and Stability are intensity-stacking boons so have not been affected by this change (they can go over 30s but need to be long enough by themselves to do so), Aegis is duration-stacking but is removed by the 1st hit so is nearly impossible to really stack it in combat.

Of all others duration-stacking boons the ones that can easily stack over 30s are Regeneration, Fury and Swiftness...

The problem is that swiftness is not a combat exclusive boon, but is also used to run when out of combat and there are a lot of skills and other sources that provide swifness over the 30s cap with just 1 use.

Rising the cap for swiftness would just be a quality of life change, would not affect combat at all.

[Monarch.7241]

Another bad update, another nail in the coffin. Why u had to remove retaliation and resistance whatsoever...? Are you for real ? How do you plan to balance that one out, by nerfing the damage of almost all the classess again...? Retaliation was the only source of countering hight damage outputs and giving a chance in duel to counter and turn the tides in your favor.

 

And seriously, do you rly think anybody cares about non damaging conditions...? You just straight out remove the useful stuff from this game, eliminating big chunks of diversal options to build on and replace it with something that nobody likes, will use, or even plan to have any benefit from in future whatsoever. The changes on retaliation and resistance are indept senseless to the point of nobody with his right mind will be wanting to even consider picking that thing, its just there, presented to justify its existence, some work being done on it, and nothing more. Do you truly believe the veteran community will be happy about those changes...?

Theres so many things that begs for attention and rework, and everybody ignores (mostly season one and two terrain and effects related) because nobody plays those anymore, because they dont get any sctructural fixes or any sort of devs attention, but sure, why dont we just remove something useful and replace it with something that has no ideological reason to even exist. Adress me atleast one boss or spell or pvp situation that pushes the case about this 'non damaging conditions' situation (ik there are none, dont even try it, lol) and the removing of retaliation and changing the resistance state, and I can give u hundreds situations where retaliation and resistance in the old fashioned desigh is actually essential. It has to be UPGRADED, not REMOVED. Atleast 4 rev builds and one guardian fully depend on Resistance and/or Retaliation, and you guys just took that out of the picture entirely like its nothing. Do you know that this is the main source of survivability for some builds in some of the zones that everybody just neglects...? And that will allow people to do what exactly ? Keep trying to solo stuff there, when those two boons are gone ? Do u rly think this will push people into playing together as a group in those zones...? The answer is no, quite the opposite. From the very few people going there tryharding to achieve something alone in the very low populated zones, because nobody is going there (because those zones are harder than the most due to most recent changes) and fully committing to solo semi tanky builds, you will have entire empty zones exactly because of that change.

 

Do you seriously consider that its enjoyable for new and old players to watch how their favorite classess are getting hammered with 'upcomming balance patches' that bring nothing new to the table, but take things off entirely, things that you use, rely on and like (thief traps for example, stated 'barely useable, nobody needs and uses that' but every single deception thief (experienced) was using it hard and depending on it in gangbang scenarios to enable surprize attacks, mostly in wvw, but also in some ranked pvp matches too ? In the current state of those changes it looks more like someone got mad because he got beaten so hard by certain proffesion and then this someone decides to write a balance patch that hammer that exact same proffession in particular (which is very childish way to deal with it ofc, but this is how it looks since the last 3 or 4 years) by replacing the strong parts in it that adjustify it as proffesion and replace those parts with significantly weaker (and unpleasant/boring/not useful at all) ones. 

 

Theres a reason why The Burning Crusade expansion in World of Wacraft was the best out there in the entire mmorpg genre (and still remains unbeaten as such), it was well tought, well planned, well executed (even in its unfinished state) and structured logically (not chaotically happening just to have something new 'in the water').

Another thing is having so few options available to use. This game looks more like some nintendo game, than a Computer Game. Why we have just 3 Utilities, 1 Heal skill and one Elite ? Are we playing a Playstation Game or we play a Computer Game? People like smashing more things, not less. Big numbers, big things. The game was far more balanced Profession wise in 2017 and 2018 than it is now, and automated traitlines ladies and gentlemans was part of the way to avoid bringing more skills to the skill bar. I might not be a GW1 Player, but when I started the game with the HoT expansion, I invested time to understand why this is necessary, why that is a must to have and so on and so on. Key features are being removed here... Things that allow more versatile builds to pop up. I personally like alot more the Rift Talent tree and how it makes the hero so unique, more than any other, but since this is not a Game made to suit my likings I will stop here. Long story short, alot can be made about the traits too.... like.... adding more new tiers. Call it Artisan Tiers if you like, the name doesnt matter at all. Another senseless nerfs that I see is the Holo elite skill range.... welp, I dont see any reason to use it now. Before it was used for its long Range and knockback, now its just...there.... Same goes for Revenant staff 5 (the Charge Forward). I no longer use the weapon because of the Charge distance travelled reductions, now I use swords instead. Why ? Senseless nerfs. First it was stated it will be pvp only, and now the short Charge is affecting pve too, why is that ? And btw this is skill that is ment to be mostly used in pvp for rooooaaamiiingg/escaping, having short Charge Forward on this skill 5 is just dumb.

 

This game has the potential to develop so much more into something truly magnificent and beautiful, but the way we walk right now leads in quite the the opposite direction... Its not something thas going on from a while, its something thats slowly gained momentum in the past few years. Listening to defeated crybabies that even life doesnt want to, about the direction of the game and where it should be heading, wont push the Game in the right state, ya know ? Just saying... 
 

A comical representation of whats going on in the last 3-4 years: 
 

Some basic player 'wannabe good at the game' but weak hotheaded hater undercover:
Hes a straight out bronzer, but wanna try ranked, he feels so stronk as guardian even when hes running terrible weapon setup and traits, nah men hes Goardian, hes stronK. He joins Ranked for first time, he sees thief, thief says 'hi', the thief busts some moves right in his face like some freaking tornado but with blades, blasts blinds on him, toys him around like a puppet, cripple, daze, steals his boons, fear, and stuff like that (some basic thief style mockery) and does 'stealth' for 3 seconds, the hater says 'amg im so ded', goes into panic mode, paralyses himself, the thief punches him in the face with some miserable 1-2k damage per hit, and then the hater dies. Later on he goes to every single humanly possible forum gw2 related (reddit, gw2forums and such) on the planet Earth crying about how stronk the thief proffesion is, because 'nurf dat thief boii hes stealthing for 3 secconds' and 'i kanddd do that he so OP, pliz nurf', completely ignoring the fact that this thief is probably a grandmaster player, god tier and he is just stepping in ranked for the first time.

You cant force People to actually learn the Game if you constantly please them, they know enough, ya see ? If they spam in the forum for a bit, they will get what they want eventually, no need to learn the Game... And this is how ranked and fractal communities became filled with so many arogant, lazy and foolish people. They dont wanna learn how to deal with the stuff around them, they know, if they cry about it, mommy will hear and mommy will help.
Guess whos the mommy in the story.
"-Adapt or die."

Edited May 13, 2021 by Monarch.7241

[RUS.9265]

Spent a whole day to used to a new rifle for warrior. What mastermind was behind the idea of changing slots? It wasn't neccesary

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, RUS.9265 said:

Spent a whole day to used to a new rifle for warrior. What mastermind was behind the idea of changing slots? It wasn't neccesary

Yeah I had that problem last night. Kept hitting 2 for an immobilize then 3 for volley and got the inverse lol.

[Astralporing.1957]

16 hours ago, Monarch.7241 said:

Retaliation was the only source of countering hight damage outputs and giving a chance in duel to counter and turn the tides in your favor by returning the damage back to its source... (or negating it)

Retaliation had neither anything to do with the scale of damage you were receiving, nor did it return damage to its source. Retal caused a flat value damage (based on your stats - specifically, on Power) in response to an attack. As such, it scaled with your power value and with the number (but not strength) of attacks you received. A person doing low damage attack received the exact same damage from Retal as someone doing a strong one. A person doing a multiple strike attack received more damage than someone doing a single big damage burst - even if that single massive damage attack dealt way more damage to you than the set of "thousand papercuts" did.

 

In short, while Retal was a boon that punished attackers, it was not reflection of any kind.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[DragoTheWise.7256]

I posted this in reply to a thread over at the engi section, but I wanted to give full feedback to devs on this pinned thread. PvE Support Scrapper still falls short compared to HB as a competitor to quickness/support/healing. There are a few things that need to be added/changed IMO to make it a more competitive choice:

 

• Base duration of quickness- The new trait needs to be at least 4 sec. Even with full boon duration, you have to spam things off of CD including function gyro just to squeeze by for quickness. Compare that to HB which is no where near as complex. There should still be thought and skill behind when the skills are used... not just spamming to keep quickness up even at 100% boon duration. This is compounded by the odd nature of Gyroscopic Acceleration... some quickness has a delay while others (mostly tool belt skills) are instant making the quickness application inconsistent in timing. The other option is to add more sources of quickness, but that may be tricky right now.
• Gyroscopic Acceleration- It would be nice to change this trait to grant the superspeed at the beginning instead at the end. It just makes it a bit awkward to use with the quickness application. While a CD for lets say Bulwark gyro is 20 secs, you have to add a few more seconds to the actual application of quickness since the superspeed is applied at the end of the skill's final pulse. In the case of Bulwark that is an extra 5 seconds of waiting. But then we have blast gyro on a 25 CD but with only a 3 sec wait before the quickness is applied. Just really inconsistent.
• Bulwark Gyro Change- Make bulwark gyro pulse out barrier instead of the redirection buff. The unique buff has some odd properties that in some raid instances will instantly kill you- Example, if the redirection buff is somehow applied to a reaper during Dhuum, you will receive a ton of damage even from just one mob attacking the reaper. Better not have it up during a failed VG green or Deimos Mind Crush either or you will be instantly dead. Barrier would be more consistent and not be prone to this odd mechanics.
• We need a reliable source of fury- Right now, we don't have one. Technically, there is the rifle turret + turrets trait that would pulse out fury but no one ever takes it, plus, at least right now would have to take up a valuable gyro slot which means less quickness and it would take up a healing trait for just one skill. Could take pack runes but that would need to be augmented by another person in the group. Finally, Toss Elixir B is unreliable. At this point it should follow elixir H's toss to have a consistent outcome. Perhaps slightly lower the boon duration of the randomized boons to allow it to apply all the boons listed. 
• Medical dispersion field needs to be consistent- Some skills will work with it even if the engi is at full health, some don't work at full health and the engi must be below full health for that healing to go out and there are even some traits that don't work at all with it. IMO, it should work with all abilities even if the engi is at full health, at least for PvE. This trait has had a lot of issues in the past and really just needs a full scrub of the trait to make sure it works properly.
• Allow Supply Crate to be a competitive option- We are pretty much stuck with mortar kit for the support role (technically, could use sneak for extra quickness, but it isn't that strong of a contender). I think that the CD for supply drop should be reduced in PvE.. Or just really match the current CD in WvW For whatever reason, the WvW version is 90 CD but the PvE and PvP one is 120?! Regardless, the CD reduction would make a good choice to consider using this elite to couple with the Experimental Turrets trait. In addition, the CD should start after the turrets are placed, not after they are detonated/timeout. Such a long CD for something that may only be used for a short time due to the movement of this game. Unfortunately, rifle turret doesn't spawn with the crate so there currently still isn't any fury generation via experimental turrets unless you of course take up a slot for the turret. Perhaps add rifle turret to the elite as well for at least PvE?
• Base engi needs a one handed support weapon- A bit of a stretch to implement compared to the other notes I have here, but still important to point out. There really should be an additional one-handed weapon to be given to base engi that has a supportive function. Having only pistol to couple with this role is just useless in PvE. Granted we have our kits, but something a bit more substantial to give a little extra boon generation (maybe another source of 5-man quickness?) and/or utility and healing would be a great addition to the build.

 

I appreciate the devs trying to give something to support scrapper to make it a good choice to bring in as a support, but it just has a number of issues that keep it back from really competing with HB in PvE. We don't know what sort of elite spec is coming up but I feel it isn't support oriented if the devs are adding more support options to what we have already. In the end, inconsistency is really hurting support scrapper.

 

I truly hope that my feedback is considered in order to make support scrapper in PvE a competitive option.

[Monarch.7241]

14 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Retaliation had neither anything to do with the scale of damage you were receiving, nor did it return damage to its source. Retal caused a flat value damage (based on your stats - specifically, on Power) in response to an attack. As such, it scaled with your power value and with the number (but not strength) of attacks you received. A person doing low damage attack received the exact same damage from Retal as someone doing a strong one. A person doing a multiple strike attack received more damage than someone doing a single big damage burst - even if that single massive damage attack dealt way more damage to you than the set of "thousand papercuts" did.

 

In short, while Retal was a boon that punished attackers, it was not reflection of any kind.

It doesnt mean it should be removed whatsoever. No matter what a reason u try to pull of, the result will be the same, Retal = vital boon to counter hard hitters in pvp, and huge helps in solo actions in pve, period. Reflecting the damage taken and causing the player to receive damage aswell seems like a huge oversight in my opinion too...

Edited May 13, 2021 by Monarch.7241

[Astralporing.1957]

20 minutes ago, Monarch.7241 said:

who cares about SCALING ! Does it return the damage ? YES!

No. It does not return the damage. It deals damage that is in no way related to what you did receive

 

Quote

Do you receive the hit when retaliation is on? NO! 

Yes, you do. Retal does not stop you from receiving the damage. It just punishes the attacker with the damage from retal buff.

 

Quote

 

Does it return it with percentage increase ? YES!

No, it does not. It deals a set amount of damage. specifically (0.075 * Power) + (0.03 * (Level^2)) + 8 damage

At level 80 it will be (0.075 * Power) + 200 damage. Notice, that the Power here is the Power value of the person that gave the buff, not the person being hit or the one doing the original attack that triggered retal.

 

Quote

 

read the description of retaliation first, then comment mumbo jumbo. You dont even put an effort to read what is retaliation about, but u rush to comment over it...? Rly ???

You might want to read that description yourself, because it is clear you have no idea about how it actually worked at all.

 

Edit: Better yet, read the wiki article about it. because the ingame description is misleading:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliation

Edited May 13, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Monarch.7241]

10 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No. It does not return the damage. It deals damage that is in no way related to what you did receive

 

Yes, you do. Retal does not stop you from receiving the damage. It just punishes the attacker with the damage from retal buff.

 

No, it does not. It deals a set amount of damage. specifically (0.075 * Power) + (0.03 * (Level^2)) + 8 damage

At level 80 it will be (0.075 * Power) + 200 damage. Notice, that the Power here is the Power value of the person with the buff, not the person doing the original attack that triggered retal.

 

You might want to read that description yourself, because it is clear you have no idea about how it actually worked at all.

 

Edit: Better yet, read the wiki article about it. because the ingame description is misleading:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliation

It is misleading because some fanboii decided to change it on the fly by reading comments in the forums from salty boys like you, who are unhappy from being defeated hard by it and not changing the tooltip it have, which btw is the original tooltip of the boon. Still not a legit reason for it to be removed, and yes it is vital boon that must not be removed, it has to be boosted. Removing retaliation is like removing aegis or quickness. It is never a necessary move to add something new by removing something old. 

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, Monarch.7241 said:

It is misleading because some fanboii decided to change it on the fly by reading comments in the forums from salty boys like you, who are unhappy from being defeated hard by it and not changing the tooltip it have, which btw is the original tooltip of the boon.

What? You do realize, i hope, that Retaliation has always worked this way?

[Monarch.7241]

4 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

What? You do realize, i hope, that Retaliation has always worked this way?

dream on, I play the game since 2015 and ranked since I remember having a toon that I like. even so the original value of the retaliation was 285% of the damage you receive. Later on it was nerfed, and probably then the things started to escalate with the nerfs, on it, because all of a sudden all retal bunkers disappeared and the very few still existing was too low in numbers to be noticed, but still a significant boost for a team to heavily change the outcome of the fight.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Monarch.7241

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, Monarch.7241 said:

dream on, I play ranked since 2015.

And you haven;t noticed how it worked till now? My, i am impressed.

Btw: the wiki link i posted above has a "version history" block that will tell you how exactly did that boon change throughtout the whole GW2 past.

[Monarch.7241]

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And you haven;t noticed how it worked till now? My, i am impressed.

Btw: the wiki link i posted above has a "version history" block that will tell you how exactly did that boon change throughtout the whole GW2 past.

wiki can have whatever it wants, wiki is not a complete source. Most of the changes are not mentioned anywhere, and in order wiki to has some information about anything, someone has to first write it there.... This includes him to notice the change or see it in any change log and so on.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Monarch.7241

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, Monarch.7241 said:

wiki can have whatever it wants, wiki is not a complete source. Most of the changes are not mentioned anywhere, and in order wiki to has some information about something, someone has to first write it there.... This includes him to notice the change or see it in any change log and so on.

The first more detailed information about how retal works (including the mention that the damage dealt by it is fixed) appeared in wiki version of the article in 2nd of september 2012. By november 2012, practically all the info about the mechanic was already known (there was no damage formula written yet, but there was already enough info known to be able to calculate it anyway). It already worked then practically similarily to how it's been working at the time it got removed. That was 3 years before you started playing.

The only major change that happened since 2015, btw, was a significant reduction to retal damage in PvP modes (it got reduced from 2/3 of PvE value to 1/2 of it in July 2020). Notice, that, while this change affected the damage dealt by retal in PvP modes, it was only a numbers change - the way Retal worked was not affected in the slightest.

 

In short, Retal never worked the way you thought it did.

[Monarch.7241]

46 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The first more detailed information about how retal works (including the mention that the damage dealt by it is fixed) appeared in wiki version of the article in 2nd of september 2012. By november 2012, practically all the info about the mechanic was already known (there was no damage formula written yet, but there was already enough info known to be able to calculate it anyway). It already worked then practically similarily to how it's been working at the time it got removed. That was 3 years before you started playing.

The only major change that happened since 2015, btw, was a significant reduction to retal damage in PvP modes (it got reduced from 2/3 of PvE value to 1/2 of it in July 2020). Notice, that, while this change affected the damage dealt by retal in PvP modes, it was only a numbers change - the way Retal worked was not affected in the slightest.

 

In short, Retal never worked the way you thought it did.
 

Dream on again, it has such a tooltip for a reason, and the reason is in that it was designed to work in the way it is written to work. NO dev builds a spell/trait to state that it work in one way and to be written to work in another. This is just straight out absurd. And again, this is what wiki states, the information of what wiki states is based on what someone managed to observe and fill in. Not every change is in the change log, mostly the crucial ones are there, do u rly believe wiki has more complete data for the changes than the change log ? Pretty doubtful. (kindly said)
Wiki may state that pink Elephants live on the Moon since 2019y. or even that the Planet Earth is actually flat, the facts remain the same, Retaliation is a useful boon that must not have been removed at all, the entire line of changes made in the recent years to make retaliation to work with other traits has been added to the game to allow bigger diversity for the players and this was just washed away with just one move. Nothing can replace the old resistance boon too, same reason.
 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Monarch.7241

[Astralporing.1957]

I give up. By 2015, when you started playing, how Retal worked was already basically a common knowledge. All of us that were in this game from the very beginning and paid even a sliver of attention to what's going on knew it.

 

I mean, you claimed it protected you from damage, when it was obvious it was not (all you had to do to see that was to either get attacked while having retal, or attack someone that had retal, and pay attention to hp bars). You claim it reflected a multiplier of damage you received (285%, right? I wonder, btw, where did you get that value from, because i have no idea?) when paying any attention to the damage floaters would tell you immediately the damage value is fixed. Those two things are really very easy to notice.

 

How you could miss all that for 6 years, i can't even imagine. Especially in SPvP, which in theory is far more demanding than PvE and should require you to pay attention.

[Monarch.7241]

39 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

(285%, right? I wonder, btw, where did you get that value from, because i have no idea?)

You have no idea because youre newcommer, that pretends to be old player, thats why you have no idea. People like you bow to gw2wiki like its a prophecy or the holy bible or something oblivious to the fact its just a site, and in order to have some information in it about anything, someone has to write it in.

 

Edit : You may laugh, but you can't deny it without end up lying.
 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Monarch.7241

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Monarch.7241 said:

You have no idea because youre newcommer, that pretends to be old player, thats why you have no idea. People like you bow to gw2wiki like its a prophecy or the holy bible or something oblivious to the fact its just a site, and in order to have some information in it about anything, someone has to write it in.

Well, someone did write that information in. In 2012. And that information shows, that in 2012 retal worked the same way it did in 2021 - the same way i said it worked, but quite unlike how you claimed it did. Which means at the moment you started playing the game it already worked like that for 3 years. You just didn't notice.

 

Sure, you can say that anyone can write whatever in wiki, but the only way that information would turn out true after 9 years would be either if it was true even then, or if that person was a genuine prophet. Multiple prophets, actually, because that article was edited by more than one user.

 

 

2 hours ago, Monarch.7241 said:

Edit : You may laugh, but you can't deny it without end up lying.

Now that's some quality argument [/sarcasm]

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Jski.6180]

Power creep update for classes anet likes we are in a "last 4 years" phase of anet it seems.

[Monarch.7241]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, someone did write that information in. In 2012. And that information shows, that in 2012 retal worked the same way it did in 2021 - the same way i said it worked, but quite unlike how you claimed it did. Which means at the moment you started playing the game it already worked like that for 3 years. You just didn't notice.

 

Sure, you can say that anyone can write whatever in wiki, but the only way that information would turn out true after 9 years would be either if it was true even then, or if that person was a genuine prophet. Multiple prophets, actually, because that article was edited by more than one user.

 

 

Now that's some quality argument [/sarcasm]

 

 

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, someone did write that information in. In 2012. And that information shows, that in 2012 retal worked the same way it did in 2021 - the same way i said it worked, but quite unlike how you claimed it did. Which means at the moment you started playing the game it already worked like that for 3 years. You just didn't notice.

 

Sure, you can say that anyone can write whatever in wiki, but the only way that information would turn out true after 9 years would be either if it was true even then, or if that person was a genuine prophet. Multiple prophets, actually, because that article was edited by more than one user.

 

 

Now that's some quality argument [/sarcasm]

 

someone did write what in 2012 exactly ? Now you trying to tell what exactlty, that retaliation is working as it intended in 2012 ? Get outta here. You not only ended up lying but as a fool too. Proud and ignorant fool, but still a fool.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Monarch.7241