Low Population

[razaelll.8324]

40 minutes ago, SexyMofo.8923 said:

Get your eyes checked out.  You’re delusional. Bots and a wack matchmaking algorithm makes you think the game is alive when it’s been buried by this community for years. 

Still you can queqe and in 2 minutes to get to actualy PLAY the game instead of waiting for 2 hours to find a group and doing nothing as it is in WoW atm

What @Locuz.2651 was saying is completely true. GW2 pvp is much more active than the one in WoW currently so no he is not delusional , but just you being a bit too aggressive for no reason. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[Thornwolf.9721]

On 5/22/2021 at 3:12 AM, razaelll.8324 said:

Because:

1. If people want to play a mmorpg, gw2 has the closest thing to balanced pvp and it has the best pvp for a mmorpg,

2. Gw2 respects your time much much more than the other big mmos and its very casual friendly.

3.the class design and the combat system are very dynamic and interactive.

4.Good amount of build divirsity and different mechanics which makes the pvp more engaging and interesting.

 

Fun and unfun are subjective so please dont use them as argument because what is fun for you might be unfun for someone else and the opposite.

 

Have a great day.

I brought a few of my friends, they played and got the expansions and got their mounts and so on. But two of them have quit after their first taste of PvP because "This is garbage, the story is crap and the PvE is boring as hell. There is nothing redeeming here." and nothing I try to do can sway them to keep trying. 

I've never once in my time as a gamer had this reaction to a game, regardless of type. These guys are typically more open to learn curves. But they got a taste of what WvW was and while they love RvR the game balance is crap. If these two can react in such a way then I wonder how many more have reacted similarly. The simple answer is the game only has two modes that feel as if they truly engage the player, and to me thats WvW and PvP. Both of which suffer because the game lacks vision and direction, and those who develop it have no clue about what PvP or WvW is and how to make it fun.

Personally, fun over perfect balance (Which is impossible) But even a dead monkey could see that the AoE/Boon spam is out of control and needs to be addressed as well specific E-specs completely outshine core/their sister E-spec and make it so that both core and their sister E-spec are trash in comparison. 

[razaelll.8324]

7 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

I brought a few of my friends, they played and got the expansions and got their mounts and so on. But two of them have quit after their first taste of PvP because "This is garbage, the story is crap and the PvE is boring as hell. There is nothing redeeming here." and nothing I try to do can sway them to keep trying. 

I've never once in my time as a gamer had this reaction to a game, regardless of type. These guys are typically more open to learn curves. But they got a taste of what WvW was and while they love RvR the game balance is crap. If these two can react in such a way then I wonder how many more have reacted similarly. The simple answer is the game only has two modes that feel as if they truly engage the player, and to me thats WvW and PvP. Both of which suffer because the game lacks vision and direction, and those who develop it have no clue about what PvP or WvW is and how to make it fun.

Personally, fun over perfect balance (Which is impossible) But even a dead monkey could see that the AoE/Boon spam is out of control and needs to be addressed as well specific E-specs completely outshine core/their sister E-spec and make it so that both core and their sister E-spec are trash in comparison. 

Everybody is entitled to have their own opinions about the game ... 

 

I also brought some friends with me when i join gw2 and left wow and we are still playing together and enjoying the game so It is down to what actually a person is looking for. Gw2 provide the things i look for thats why i enjoy it ...

 

As i said its not perfect and i mentioned also things which bother me, but that does not mean that the game cannot bring you joy it all depends on what you are looking for in my opinion.

Edited May 28, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[Thornwolf.9721]

On 5/22/2021 at 10:46 AM, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Gw2's combat and build system are what's fun about the game...low and behold though that's what people want removed...people want to remove the builds. They don't actually want diversity because if they did, they would try to understand how it actually works. People think they know how it works but if that's true they are Charles FREKEN Darwin because diversity and evolution are part of the same thing...but nope everyone's got their own definition here on how to make the game "more diverse" by removing "every build there is" so that we can also have "more balance" as if any of that makes sense.

 

So am i jaded? yea...i've been with this franchise since it began over near 20 years ago now. I've experienced every single patch there ever was, and you can clearly see how patches differ from back then and now...you can see how the game design differences between both games effect the people that play them. I feel like I'm not alone in feeling jaded about the game, and I think a lot of veterans really don't play much anymore because the builds that make guild wars 2 the unique game that it is, is being stripped away by balance patches, and system design that goes against the game design it originally was.

 

 

"Why learn when I can just whine and have my counter, or a build I don't understand removed entirely." The issue is A-net listens and provides knee jerk reactions rather than hard looks and work on their classes/combat. The game essentially has become "PvE or bust" for many patches and as someone who likewise who has been with this franchise since I was a small human, I can say guild wars 2 gets no where near the love its predecessor did.

I wouldn't be surprised if the goal was to kill PvP and WvW and each patch is their attempt to do so, because honestly why spend the time deving for them when you can make a simple map with reused assets and glowing enemies to fight. Why make maps, game modes, expansion content for competitive modes when most of the team is anything but? They dont play their game. Most dev's dont. The difference here is that we know full well they have no clue on how to make changes to fix these modes specifically and have little interest in doing so; As a rev player who refuses to use Renegade I see my classes other aspects get nerfed, changed or altered SPECIFICALLY to make it pigeon holed into renegade for the best results. Every patch. 

Now you can run other builds but it just seems like ren is better, but this is an issue many classes face. Its an issue that also hurts PvP because Renegade is a more powerful version of rev in that game mode specifically BECAUSE of its high area denial and burst potential. But its all AoE so it adds to the boon/AoE spam which is degenerative in general because its all about who does it better, the Mirage changes are also a good showcase that they have no clue how to fix it without breaking it. All they needed to do was remove infinite horrizon and replace the trait and give them two dodges but leave them as they were, which was one of the big changes that harmed the spec. But rather than fix IH they just took a dodge and then dumpstered their damage, their answer now is to return the bunker condi build which plagued the game to its former glory? Why? How? WHAT?

Some specs need reworks, some classes need overhauls to some traitlines... there should be NO variant that doesn't work in this game based on its combat/traitline system. But their intention is not for diversity, their intention is to make sure everyone plays the same thing and do it the same way, with the same intent. I doubt they even QA or have QA test group at all or anything of the sort, because clearly no one actually tests the changes they make.

[Thornwolf.9721]

2 minutes ago, razaelll.8324 said:

Everybody is entitled to have their own opinions about the game ... 

 

I also brought some friends with me when i join gw2 and left wow and we are still playing together and enjoying the game so It is down to what actually a person is looking for. Gw2 provide the things i look for thats why i enjoy it ...

I enjoy RvR. And currently no other game offers it, If there was an alternative that had RvR like warhammer online did? I doubt I'd still be playing. WvW stands alone as guild wars 2's most unique game mode; Because the only alternative is ESO's warmode which is garbage. 

The PvE/Story is not really worth investing time into outside of achievements and making legendaries. Hell I used to be a lore nerd, now I just go afk when they talk about story because I can't be bothered to care. They sacrificed everything for the living story, for their narrative and the few times it was good was short lived. (The prologue to the Icebrood saga and Joko.) I suppose Veteran players will see it differently, as will competitive players. Raids/strikes/DRM's? I don't really care about those modes, nor do my friends so the game thusfar panders harder to the PvE when they should really focus on their PvP for a while and give some content over there. Y'know spread the love? No mode should go without new content, or suffer through neglect yet EVERYTHING but PvE has been going through this.

and thats not inspiring for the games future in the least. 

[Zaxares.5419]

The low population is basically a Catch-22 problem for PvP. The low population means that matches tend to be seriously out of whack (you get Silvers/Golds being matched up against Platinums and they just turn into one-sided stomping fests), so players stop playing because it's not fun, which makes the original problem worse. As others have mentioned, this issue is particularly acute in ATs, where you basically have 1-2 teams with Legendary/Plat3 tier players just steamrolling all opposition for easy gold/Mystic Coins, and the only reason the lower teams are even there at all because there's so few teams that even if you lose all of your matches, you'll probably still get at least 1 Coin. But an AT still requires roughly an hour's time investment, and that's too poor a return for most players to bother with.

[Yannsen.9736]

We all agree about the symptoms of the disease (for good a bad reasons).  I've tried to identify a few paths to explore trying to exit this 'vicious circle and my intent is not to repeat these ones. If you guys have any ideas to submit maybe we will be listened (dreams .... 🙂) sooner or later!

IMo the 1st question to answer is: how to quickly and drastically increase the population?   

Edited June 3, 2021 by Yannsen.9736

[Ivarian.9018]

It is unfortunately too late for GW2 PVP to get rezzed and I don't believe the expac will change anything. Maybe it will bring a bunch of busted new classes to force people to purchase it but I don't believe Anet will suddenly bring proper balance to this game mode with even more classes. The best we can hope is that they will destroy all previous classes and focus on balancing the new ones only.

 

Anyway, a good indicator of the PVP population rn was the start of this new season. It took 3 days to fill the 250 seats of the leaderboard in EU with the lowest rating being in the bronze level...

[Salt Mode.3780]

You know whats funny when you look at the patch notes and none of it has to do with nerfing boons how they are applied and the durations for them. The true power creep isn't in how much dmg the new E-Specs can do it is how they can abuse boon application to a point where classes that were made for that very reason no longer is needed in that role (sPvP and WvW). 

Most of the complaints have been boons but again instead of looking into the issue the Devs think its dmg modifiers or ratios that needs adjusting. 

When a class can apply 25 stacks of vulnerability at the same time 25 stacks of might, doesn't matter how you nerf the ratios IT WILL HURT.

Perfect example would be: Who remembers the day when staff guardians are needed in WvW for might stacks as well as Ele blasting in fire combo fields. Actually a better question is aside from thieves, rangers (smoke field for stealth) and Ele who uses combo fields actively compared to before.

[Thornwolf.9721]

17 hours ago, Yannsen.9736 said:

We all agree about the symptoms of the disease (for good a bad reasons).  I've tried to identify a few paths to explore trying to exit this 'vicious circle and my intent is not to repeat these ones. If you guys have any ideas to submit maybe we will be listened (dreams .... 🙂) sooner or later!

IMo the 1st question to answer is: how to quickly and drastically increase the population?   

1. New maps, which is like new content. More like Red less like EB. Sure the vocal minority will hate actual dynamic maps but it will help the game-mode over all in WvW especially if its canthan themed. A change of scenery helps way more than people assume...
2. New siege, race based preferably to make your race bring something fun to the table.
3. Reworks to the war-claw to allow for a jousting sort of thing, so it can function like actual cavalry 
4. Guild battles/Alliance battles just like in guild wars 1 as its own mode.
5. more PvP maps
6. fixes to the lag, sever latency and other such stuff that make WvW insufferable at times
7. Reworks to traitlines, and revisions to changes. Warrior should do damage on its CC as that could be the classes special thing to set it apart, since its a physical combatant all physical CC skills should do more than just CC. Other classes just need hard reworks to their core traitlines to bring them to the level where they can compete
8. get a QA test group so you can TEST THESE CHANGES
9. more water. Underwater is part of the game, its one of the most fun aspects of the game and we need more of it.
10. My dynamic events/NPC's we an "Hire" (club like baby seals) to defend our objectives, more meaningful objectives to make the gameplay loop more fun.

[otto.5684]

On 5/22/2021 at 12:21 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

 

I can tell you how to achieve diversity in guild wars 2. 

 

Step 1. Find "overperforming" build

Step 2. Pick something to complain about. It can be anything, sustain, damage, tankiness, mobility. Thy sky's the limit

Step 3. Nerf it until it's "in line" with other builds

Step 4. Continue until everything is a homogenous mud pile

Step 5. Wonder why there is no diversity in the game. 

 

I wonder when people will realize that it's definitionally impossible to have diversity without outliers. 

Not necessarily true. Nerfing something to be inline is not the same as nerfing to become unplayable. Take FB. Post Feb 2020 patch it was grossly OP. Anet some good adjustments, like increasing CD on axe 2. But then made changes that can only be explained by intentionally making FB unplayable, including nerfing all mantras to the point of being useless in spvp. Example, mantra of truth was oppressive with 4 secs duration of blindness, cripple and weakness. You would think the balance was to remove the weakness. Instead Anet reduced the duration to 1 sec rendering the skill obsolete. Same story with mantra of solace and elite. What is even worse, after Anet removed the final charge they did not even bother to adjust the other stats. The healing mantra literally does no healing.

 

And guess what? FB sucks and no one currently plays it. You know what is the issue? The current balance team are either incompetent or are intentionally ruining specific builds/classes. I no longer have the patience for this bull kitten, and thus I no longer pvp.

[Yannsen.9736]

great response from Thornwolf with multiple tangible proposals. Love it ! Very Wvw oriented but still

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Yannsen.9736

[Archer.4362]

for me to make pvp attractive again so that people return is simple.

 

- People ask for more maps, it is easy, that the old versions of the maps can be used without modifying the scenarios and the deleted maps like the one that had water combat.

 

- go back to the traits before the expansions, there was more diversity, there was no one who carried the same build and they were all viable.

 

- more diversity of amulets and sigils.

 

sorry my bad english.

[Tinkerer.2167]

17 minutes ago, Archer.4362 said:

for me to make pvp attractive again so that people return is simple.

 

- People ask for more maps, it is easy, that the old versions of the maps can be used without modifying the scenarios and the deleted maps like the one that had water combat.

 

- go back to the traits before the expansions, there was more diversity, there was no one who carried the same build and they were all viable.

 

- more diversity of amulets and sigils.

 

sorry my bad english.

? No, lol, they mostly ran the same builds. As someone who was top 5 in the website leaderboards in 2013-2014, the builds were exactly the same in the top end. Caed ran meta, Tany ran meta ranger, Marvin ran meta engi, Hibify ran meta engi, etc etc ... The kitten was exactly the same.

 

Metas will always exist no matter what type of trait system and the old trait system will just limit things with how specialization trees work. 

 

The only difference is there was more emphasis on amulet back then, because celestial was so busted it could power builds like ele, engi, shout war, etc.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Tinkerer.2167

[felix.2386]

low population because the balance is garbage and anet doesnt care.

you think really its the map that matter? the balance now is literally garbage.

i barely say this, but this time it's real.

 

all the plat people i know doesnt really care about new map and they stop playing because the meta is literally hot garbage.

Edited June 5, 2021 by felix.2386

[razaelll.8324]

4 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

low population because the balance is garbage and anet doesnt care.

you think really its the map that matter? the balance now is literally garbage.

i barely say this, but this time it's real.

 

all the plat people i know doesnt really care about new map and they stop playing because the meta is literally hot garbage.

Play something else then

[Pimsley.3681]

On 6/4/2021 at 6:41 AM, Yannsen.9736 said:

We all agree about the symptoms of the disease (for good a bad reasons).  I've tried to identify a few paths to explore trying to exit this 'vicious circle and my intent is not to repeat these ones. If you guys have any ideas to submit maybe we will be listened (dreams .... 🙂) sooner or later!

IMo the 1st question to answer is: how to quickly and drastically increase the population?   

 

Been playing since 2012, took a few years off but back on because despite the imperfect balance, I really love the game mechanics. No need to grind for gear, no monthly fees. I spend most of my time playing PVP, bought both xpacs for PVP. 

 

Heck I even buy gems to support the developers. 

 

The challenge I guess is how to get people back and how to get other gamers to discover GW2 PVP. 

[Pimsley.3681]

On 6/6/2021 at 12:40 AM, Archer.4362 said:

for me to make pvp attractive again so that people return is simple.

 

- People ask for more maps, it is easy, that the old versions of the maps can be used without modifying the scenarios and the deleted maps like the one that had water combat.

 

- go back to the traits before the expansions, there was more diversity, there was no one who carried the same build and they were all viable.

 

- more diversity of amulets and sigils.

 

sorry my bad english.

 

Your English is great!

 

I agree with you especially on the diversity of amulets and sigils. Instead of reworking certain classes or toxic builds, they took the shortcut of just eliminating certain amulets entirely. They overlooked the effect that had on classes that depend or needed those amulets but were not abusing them. 

 

Frankly, I enjoyed PVP more before the xpacs. I played stuff like power necro, power staff ele, condi engie, etc...

[Crab Fear.1624]

On 6/5/2021 at 4:48 PM, razaelll.8324 said:

Play something else then

I think that is what 90% of what players are doing

 

hence, the low population