never forget

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, crewthief.8649 said:

They could alleviate so much of the anxiety with better communication, honestly. Obviously, there is a variety of player that is going to complain no matter what, but a fair amount of the moaning could be addressed with better customer relations. You know, what’s the harm in letting players know which metrics they’re looking at? At least then we’d have some context. This is one of the only industries where a business can get away with such poor customer service. Of course, this is also an industry (MMOs)  that has seen significant decline over the past decade or so.

To be honest, I think communication will just exacerbate the problem. The only thing I think that will change is the volume of the feedback, not the quality. In addition, if Anet acknowledges to opening up to using players ideas, then it it's just dead from overwhelming levels of 'great ideas' and you still get lots of unhappy players. The bottomline is that as we can even see here, players think their ideas, good or bad, have some sort of great value to Anet. They don't. I mean, Anet's bandwidth is not even a fraction of what volume of ideas they would have to manage from players. Good intentions, not practical in implementation.  

[crewthief.8649]

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

To be honest, I think communication will just exacerbate the problem. The only thing I think that will change is the volume of the feedback, not the quality. In addition, if Anet acknowledges to opening up to using players ideas, then it it's just dead from overwhelming levels of 'great ideas' and you still get lots of unhappy players. The bottomline is that as we can even see here, players think their ideas, good or bad, have some sort of great value to Anet. They don't. I mean, Anet's bandwidth is not even a fraction of what volume of ideas they would have to manage from players. Good intentions, not practical in implementation.  

Well yeah, I was referencing volume. The chronic complainers will complain no matter what, but I’m not referring to them. Take our conversation, for example, a majority of our discussion has been over what metrics Anet is using to determine if something is “great.” Without further clarity on their part, you and I are left to surmise what constitutes great according to their metrics. It doesn’t have to be that way. There is never a good reason not to communicate clearly with your customer base.

Edited June 6, 2021 by crewthief.8649

[Psycoprophet.8107]

U guys kno ur talking about devs who state in their balance notes that increasing build diversity it one of their main goals then proceed in same patch to make changes that further shoe horn classes into the already few meta builds while making almost 0 changes to actually increase build diversity. Ur best not to waste ur time trying to understand their goals or the changes they make and just try and have some fun with what's there and move on.

[Obtena.7952]

44 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

U guys kno ur talking about devs who state in their balance notes that increasing build diversity it one of their main goals then proceed in same patch to make changes that further shoe horn classes into the already few meta builds while making almost 0 changes to actually increase build diversity. Ur best not to waste ur time trying to understand their goals or the changes they make and just try and have some fun with what's there and move on.

Again, without having the data, you can't conclude they aren't achieving their goals. But yes, the answer is exactly as you put it; just play and have fun. We don't need to know the back office details of game balance to be able to do that. 

[crewthief.8649]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, without having the data, you can't conclude they aren't achieving their goals. But yes, the answer is exactly as you put it; just play and have fun. We don't need to know the back office details of game balance to be able to do that. 

Well, the issue with that is entire builds can be destroyed with one patch, so this process has a tremendous impact on the customer. At least for me, that unpredictability is not fun. While I cannot personally change any of this, I can, as a customer, make kitten sure they know that I am not pleased with the lack of communication.

[crewthief.8649]

2 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

U guys kno ur talking about devs who state in their balance notes that increasing build diversity it one of their main goals then proceed in same patch to make changes that further shoe horn classes into the already few meta builds while making almost 0 changes to actually increase build diversity. Ur best not to waste ur time trying to understand their goals or the changes they make and just try and have some fun with what's there and move on.

That is absolutely an option. Although, for people such as myself, I’ll just leave the game (and I’m not saying that as a threat or something). I have limited time as it is, and plenty of options as to where I choose to spend my disposable income.

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

17 minutes ago, crewthief.8649 said:

That is absolutely an option. Although, for people such as myself, I’ll just leave the game (and I’m not saying that as a threat or something). I have limited time as it is, and plenty of options as to where I choose to spend my disposable income.

 

I hear ya and nothing wrong with leaving and moving on, I have for a while now myself, my point is many of us have been disappointed in the devs inability to not only make decent balance passes but also mechanic charges within any reasonable amount of time if even ever for like the past 8+ yrs so its not gonna change anytime soon lol.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, without having the data, you can't conclude they aren't achieving their goals. But yes, the answer is exactly as you put it; just play and have fun. We don't need to know the back office details of game balance to be able to do that. 

yup, its their game and they'll do with it as they please so if its not fun any more move onto the many other games out there, I did, and u can always cone back later if they temporarily change the game or the classes u play to a state u enjoy, then leave again when they mess mess em up again, no one is forced to play.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

50 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

yup, its their game and they'll do with it as they please so if its not fun any more move onto the many other games out there, I did, and u can always cone back later if they temporarily change the game or the classes u play to a state u enjoy, then leave again when they mess mess em up again, no one is forced to play.

I have a friend that's been trying VERY hard to get me into FF14. The new class they released with a Scythe is making it VERY tempting.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

31 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I have a friend that's been trying VERY hard to get me into FF14. The new class they released with a Scythe is making it VERY tempting.

Its a great game and very fun, but u gotta boost ur self into the expansions and past the base game slog, and it is a very long slog if u don't. Past the base game though its pve and dungeons are way way wayyyyyyy better than gw2 as far as those spacific contents go, I only came to gw2 for pvp which I know play smite lol. If u do try zerker and samurai, both were super fun when I played. Also pso2 new genesis is a f2p mmo releasing weds and swords of legends is releasing later this month or early July, check em out u may find u enjoy those as well, there's a class in swords of legends called reaper that uses a huge scythe and the berserker class looks really fun as well.

I kno from past posts ur a war main so I don't blame u for considering leaving, im surprised there's any of u war mains left considering the devs poor balance and vision of the class, the ruin war more and more as the yrs go and in patch notes continually say its doing great, mind-boggling lol. Good luck in whatever ya do.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

25 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Its a great game and very fun, but u gotta boost ur self into the expansions and past the base game slog, and it is a very long slog if u don't. Past the base game though its pve and dungeons are way way wayyyyyyy better than gw2 as far as those spacific contents go, I only came to gw2 for pvp which I know play smite lol. If u do try zerker and samurai, both were super fun when I played. Also pso2 new genesis is a f2p mmo releasing weds and swords of legends is releasing later this month or early July, check em out u may find u enjoy those as well, there's a class in swords of legends called reaper that uses a huge scythe and the berserker class looks really fun as well.

I kno from past posts ur a war main so I don't blame u for considering leaving, im surprised there's any of u war mains left considering the devs poor balance and vision of the class, the ruin war more and more as the yrs go and in patch notes continually say its doing great, mind-boggling lol. Good luck in whatever ya do.

Oh I've tried it. So very slow at first >< yet I am promised it gets better. Frankly if I did play it, I wouldn't leave the gold saucer once I got there.

 

I'll stay with GW2 through the post EoD content drought, but if they keep making bad balance decisions I may go on a short hiatus at that point.

[Valik Shin.9027]

On 6/6/2021 at 1:22 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

There is no semantics being played ... you said it was OBJECTIVELY not performing great in PvP. You can't say that unless you objectively measured it's performance and it didn't meet the criteria for great performance. So what are your objective criteria and how did you measure it? 

 

So again ... do you know what objective means? It appears you do not because I'm willing to bet my last dollar you haven't measured performance or defined what 'great' PVP performance is. You're just another person that says things they don't understand to make the most noise to get attention. 

i mean have a "good" performance in pvp it's pretty easy to see. If a class represents less than 10% of the slots in random pvp it's probably in a bad place. If none of the top teams use the class it's probably in a bad place. Sure it might not be bad just that another class does it better but that still means it not getting played and weather  a class is played a lot or not should be the only real thing that needs to be looked at. The player base will always find better builds than anet.

[Valik Shin.9027]

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, without having the data, you can't conclude they aren't achieving their goals. But yes, the answer is exactly as you put it; just play and have fun. We don't need to know the back office details of game balance to be able to do that. 

I mean having your favorite class be bad is kinda a big deal with not having fun and shouldn't anet want to make people happy by balancing the way thier players think they should? at least to a degree? I undertsand not ever class will be meta every balance but when mesmer and guardian are time after time a top tier build in every game mode it's very frustrating that other can't shine for a change

[Obtena.7952]

59 minutes ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

I mean having your favorite class be bad is kinda a big deal with not having fun and shouldn't anet want to make people happy by balancing the way thier players think they should? at least to a degree? I undertsand not ever class will be meta every balance but when mesmer and guardian are time after time a top tier build in every game mode it's very frustrating that other can't shine for a change

Ideally, all criteria for player's choosing a class are covered, but reality is at som point does it become unreasonable for any to provide a choice that fulfills every player's criteria?

 

I mean, you want 'fun' ... well, what does that mean and how does Anet provide any choices you want to be 'fun'? That really doesn't mean much. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

i mean have a "good" performance in pvp it's pretty easy to see. If a class represents less than 10% of the slots in random pvp it's probably in a bad place. If none of the top teams use the class it's probably in a bad place. Sure it might not be bad just that another class does it better but that still means it not getting played and weather  a class is played a lot or not should be the only real thing that needs to be looked at. The player base will always find better builds than anet.

Sure and maybe that's how Anet measures it. I don't know. Like I already said ... what is 'good' is probably measured as a 'volume' of played time ... so if Anet says 'Hey Berserker is in a good place", then what makes anyone think it's wrong?

[Valik Shin.9027]

8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure and maybe that's how Anet measures it. I don't know. Like I already said ... what is 'good' is probably measured as a 'volume' of played time ... so if Anet says 'Hey Berserker is in a good place", then what makes anyone think it's wrong?

because they don't get played in pvp maybe? because when they are played in wvw its as a support kitten. I mean it's kinda obvious 

[Valik Shin.9027]

9 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Ideally, all criteria for player's choosing a class are covered, but reality is at som point does it become unreasonable for any to provide a choice that fulfills every player's criteria?

 

I mean, you want 'fun' ... well, what does that mean and how does Anet provide any choices you want to be 'fun'? That really doesn't mean much. 

i mean if your gonna have a class be ok at best why even have the class? why not just delete it. 

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

i mean if your gonna have a class be ok at best why even have the class? why not just delete it. 

Because classes offer different ways to play the game for people; performance is NOT the only reason to choose a class. If you think a class shouldn't exist because it's performance is only OK ... you are playing the WRONG game man. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

because they don't get played in pvp maybe? because when they are played in wvw its as a support kitten. I mean it's kinda obvious 

There isn't anything obvious about your speculation. How do you know they don't get played? what's your data? You know when all berserkers are played in WvW, it's played in a support role? How do you know that?

 

I've already covered how I think Anet measures this, so 'they don't get played in PVP maybe' doesn't make sense if Anet is measuring it and concluding the opposite. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Psycoprophet.8107]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's got ALOT to do with the player, not just the class. 

I think a class having low representation in competitive modes, especially a class that when is just decent usually still shoes good representation due to how popular warrior class is across mmos. Is warrior being played in MATs,when and if they are do they perform well comparatively to its surrounding classes, does it have viable builds that do well in competitive modes that promote the obvious playstyles one would pick a class for? If no is the answer to most those than I'd say class regardless of anets opinion is in a bad spot. Remember anet is a game dev providing a service, sure its their game and they can chose to do as they wish but if its evident that the majority of warrior players who actually "play" the class are very unhappy with it and disagree with the devs who more than likely play the class or have played the class way way more than the devs id think it be good business for anets devs atleast try to make some changes to change the current situation where most war players basically gate its current state.

I'd bet on they dont outa laziness and poor as usual resource management that the game has been suffering from for yrs now.

Regardless there's a lot of obvious tells a dev could see that a class isn't performing well and fact they think war is is very telling, at least to me.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

15 hours ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

i mean have a "good" performance in pvp it's pretty easy to see. If a class represents less than 10% of the slots in random pvp it's probably in a bad place. If none of the top teams use the class it's probably in a bad place. Sure it might not be bad just that another class does it better but that still means it not getting played and weather  a class is played a lot or not should be the only real thing that needs to be looked at. The player base will always find better builds than anet.

I know what you mean but 10% might be a little high with 9 professions to choose from. Split equally each profession would have a little over 11% of the player base.

[artharon.9276]

On 6/5/2021 at 5:33 AM, felix.2386 said:

Berserker has been in a great place with strong support, power, and condition builds that are successful in all content.

- Anet 29th April 2021.

Berserker's support is the best this game offers. I'm sharing boons and heals like free candy and my banners? are you kidding me. They're OP asf. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

17 minutes ago, artharon.9276 said:

Berserker's support is the best this game offers. I'm sharing boons and heals like free candy and my banners? are you kidding me. They're OP asf. 

kitten am I not seeing those busted Zerkers in all comps in MATs or as top DPS support options in wvw Zergs.. 

 

In PvE maybe they are good. Every class can be good there. The warriors cannot be replaced in raids cause of the banners. Might? Druid. Heals? Tempest. Other offensive boons? Herald (although less popular than Renegade). CC? Nothing a necro can't do. 

 

Team fighter Zerker in pvp is a genuinely plausible option. But once you run out of shouts (why not go healbreaker anyway), you are essentially food for any enemy. Outside of Berserk? Good luck getting no heals and no might from Tactics or Defense. In Berserk? Enjoy the toughness penalty and even if you spec for it, may as well for RR and switch from the role of a team fighter to solo, since you are bloated with defenses and may hit like a noodle against anyone who knows how to dodge Arc Divider and has protection. 

 

Nothing op about it aside from busted primal burst dmg in specific meme builds. 

 

Do share the viable support berserker for competitive though. I'd love to use it in PvP or WvW. 

[Kodama.6453]

On 6/8/2021 at 5:53 PM, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

I know what you mean but 10% might be a little high with 9 professions to choose from. Split equally each profession would have a little over 11% of the player base.

It also ignores thematical appeal.

 

Even if all 9 classes would be perfectly balanced, I can guarantee you that not 11% of the players would play engineer. It has always been the least played class (revenant is technically lower on player count, but this is most likely because it is behind a paywall while the other classes are all free to play) and one major factor here is that more players are drawn to the high fantasy and magical thematics of the game than to the steampunk elements.

[artharon.9276]

48 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

kitten am I not seeing those busted Zerkers in all comps in MATs or as top DPS support options in wvw Zergs.. 

 

In PvE maybe they are good. Every class can be good there. The warriors cannot be replaced in raids cause of the banners. Might? Druid. Heals? Tempest. Other offensive boons? Herald (although less popular than Renegade). CC? Nothing a necro can't do. 

 

Team fighter Zerker in pvp is a genuinely plausible option. But once you run out of shouts (why not go healbreaker anyway), you are essentially food for any enemy. Outside of Berserk? Good luck getting no heals and no might from Tactics or Defense. In Berserk? Enjoy the toughness penalty and even if you spec for it, may as well for RR and switch from the role of a team fighter to solo, since you are bloated with defenses and may hit like a noodle against anyone who knows how to dodge Arc Divider and has protection. 

 

Nothing op about it aside from busted primal burst dmg in specific meme builds. 

 

Do share the viable support berserker for competitive though. I'd love to use it in PvP or WvW. 

Did I really sound that serious? wth is a support zerker lol