If Superspeed can now be stacked with a maximum time limit, should Stealth also stack up until a time limit?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Unique, non-boon buff. Perfect counter to stealth heavy builds which abuse it. 

 

The numbers? No idea. Maybe 10 seconds max with an application of a 1 or 2 second reveal before being able to stack it again? 

 

With the change to Superspeed I'd say it would work well. Previously you couldn't stack Superspeed but now you can for a limited duration. Now you can stack stealth for an indefinite duration. 

 

Anyway, what do you say? 

[Sobx.1758]

...you can stack stealth for indefinite duration?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

...you can stack stealth for indefinite duration?

I mean, I've tried it in WvW. Cloaking waters and all my stealth utilities, I can reach some pretty high numbers in stealth uptime. Even without the waters. 

 

Should Stealth be given a set stack duration? Again, not sure on the numbers, what do people want to suggest? 5 seconds of stealth? 10? 15? Isn't anything more than 15 sec permastealth tho? 

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I mean, I've tried it in WvW. Cloaking waters and all my stealth utilities, I can reach some pretty high numbers in stealth uptime. Even without the waters. 

 

Should Stealth be given a set stack duration? Again, not sure on the numbers, what do people want to suggest? 5 seconds of stealth? 10? 15? Isn't anything more than 15 sec permastealth tho?

Stealth is already limited to 5 stacks.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Stealth is already limited to 5 stacks.

Huh, but it stacks duration, not intensity. Or do you mean 5 applications? I'm sure I've done and can do more than 5.

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

15 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Huh, but it stacks duration, not intensity. Or do you mean 5 applications? I'm sure I've done and can do more than 5.

Of course it stacks duration and so the max time of the stealth is limited by the duration of a single stealth application. Then you can reapply/refresh with new stealth applications, which is what you can also currently do with superspeed, so... what you're proposing is already a thing?

Edited June 9, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Grand Marshal.4098]

20 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Of course it stacks duration and so the max time of the stealth is limited by the duration of a single stealth application. Then you can reapply/refresh with new stealth applications, which is what you can also currently do with superspeed, so... what you're proposing is already a thing?

But superspeed has a cap. Stealth doesn't. Stealth can be applied by all sources for a grand total amount of time of stealth, which is all stealth abilities durations combined. Superspeed needs to be refereshed because it cannot exceed it's stacking. Stealth doesn't need to be refreshed after several applications, since it has no limit in duration.

 

Basically, no matter how many times you apply stealth you gain every second out of it. No loss. Superspeed can be lost. That's what I claim. Have a threshold at which stealth applications cannot exceed a certain duration, like superspeed. 

[Sobx.1758]

19 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

But superspeed has a cap. Stealth doesn't. Stealth can be applied by all sources for a grand total amount of time of stealth, which is all stealth abilities durations combined. Superspeed needs to be refereshed because it cannot exceed it's stacking. Stealth doesn't need to be refreshed after several applications, since it has no limit in duration.

This is wrong.

 

Quote

Basically, no matter how many times you apply stealth you gain every second out of it. No loss. Superspeed can be lost. That's what I claim. Have a threshold at which stealth applications cannot exceed a certain duration, like superspeed. 

Seriosuly, did you read and understand what I wrote in the previous posts? This is wrong. No matter how many times you'll repeat something that's wrong, it won't become true. If you think stealth is unlimited and no stealth applications go to waste, go test it out in the game by yourself or something. And this time ACTUALLY DO IT instead of saying you're "pretty sure you've done it". It doesn't seem you did. Or if you did, test it better this time, not sure what else to tell you...

Edited June 9, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I believe you didn't understand my point, or perhaps I didn't explain it properly. I'm not syaing stealth is infinite. I'm saying that with a cap on overall stealth duration, like with superspeed, one will have to sacrifice total stealth duration in order to remain within the duration threshold. Or they can make full use of the feature by reapplying it as long as it's not wasted within the duration cap.

 

This would not allow someone to remain in stealth passively for 30 seconds for example by stacking all sources at once and waiting. It would require active gameplay to maintain stealth duration up, since the cap wouldn't allow for overstacking, therefore making the chances of someone exiting stealth due to mismanagement of skills, mor possible.

 

A smart player will be able to still stealth for long periods of time, but with a duration cap, some skills may/may not have recharged as quickly as someone would need them and would allow for counterplay to permastealth stacking.

[Jumpel.3972]

"Stealth is able to be stacked up to 5 times. When capped, new stacks with a longer duration will be able to replace current stacks with a shorter duration. However the current active stack cannot be replaced."

From wiki : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth

 

Common source of stealth give 3sec (4sec for thief SA) so basically the cap is at 15sec (20sec for SA Thief in theory)

 

That's what Sobx try to explain to you

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

"Stealth is able to be stacked up to 5 times. When capped, new stacks with a longer duration will be able to replace current stacks with a shorter duration. However the current active stack cannot be replaced."

From wiki : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth

 

Common source of stealth give 3sec (4sec for thief SA) so basically the cap is at 15sec (20sec for SA Thief in theory)

 

That's what Sobx try to explain to you

And I believe Grand Marshal is implying a possible time cap on top of the stack cap. Like a 10s total cap, which you could do with 5 stacks of 2s duration stealths.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

"Stealth is able to be stacked up to 5 times. When capped, new stacks with a longer duration will be able to replace current stacks with a shorter duration. However the current active stack cannot be replaced."

From wiki : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth

 

Common source of stealth give 3sec (4sec for thief SA) so basically the cap is at 15sec (20sec for SA Thief in theory)

 

That's what Sobx try to explain to you

Yup, thanks.

 

42 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

And I believe Grand Marshal is implying a possible time cap on top of the stack cap. Like a 10s total cap, which you could do with 5 stacks of 2s duration stealths.

Maybe, but he still thinks -and keeps repeating- that no cap exists in the first place and "there are no wasted stacks", which is not the case. Indirectly, stealth and superspeed work pretty similarly atm, where there is an upper limit (number of stacks for stealth -which in itself limits the maximum time at once- and time limit for superspeed), which can be refilled the moment it falls below it.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yup, thanks.

 

Maybe, but he still thinks -and keeps repeating- that no cap exists in the first place and "there are no wasted stacks", which is not the case. Indirectly, stealth and superspeed work pretty similarly atm, where there is an upper limit (number of stacks for stealth -which in itself limits the maximum time at once- and time limit for superspeed), which can be refilled the moment it falls below it.

I think you and he are speaking about two different things though. Yes the amount of times a duration can stack is 5 times, but there is no cap on the total time, so theoretically if a 5 minute stealth existed as a single source that could be one of those stacks.

 

What Grand Marshal is trying to discuss in a non Forums Lawyer manner, is to change stealth stacking to this:

 

Stealth stacks in duration. Maximum stacks of 5, with longer duration stacks replacing shorter duration stacks excepting the current active stack. Stealth durations may not exceed XX seconds regardless of the duration of the incoming stack.

 

I.E. if the max duration were 10s: if you had a 5 stacks of 4s stealth the third stack would only add 2s of stealth and the last 2 stacks would be wasted, or if you stacked 4 stacks of 2s duration stealth and a 4s duration stealth the last stack would only add 2s of stealth.

[bigo.9037]

I believe the max duration is 15-17s. The problem is it should be much lower. 5-6s with a 5-6 window where you can’t stealth again.

superspeed should work the same. Instead of reveal debuff, you get “exhausted” which makes you unable to receive superspeed for 10s. 
 

but they are not going to do this, and that’s why these things are so spammable.

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I think you and he are speaking about two different things though. Yes the amount of times a duration can stack is 5 times, but there is no cap on the total time, so theoretically if a 5 minute stealth existed as a single source that could be one of those stacks.

Don't delve into theoretical durations, because -as far as I know- it's irrelevant in the current state of the game. Use the existing sources and understand that with your normal stealth applications you have 2-4 seconds per stack, so limiting stacks also limits the time. Right? Right. I don't see the purpose of asking "what if 5 minute from the single source existed" -it just doesn't. And if at some point it will exist then riot. 😆 

 

And he pretty clearly doesn't understand the current limitations seeing how he claims he totally could stack it almost indefinitely at once.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Lighter.5631]

20 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Unique, non-boon buff. Perfect counter to stealth heavy builds which abuse it. 

 

The numbers? No idea. Maybe 10 seconds max with an application of a 1 or 2 second reveal before being able to stack it again? 

 

With the change to Superspeed I'd say it would work well. Previously you couldn't stack Superspeed but now you can for a limited duration. Now you can stack stealth for an indefinite duration. 

 

Anyway, what do you say? 

doesnt matter, problem with stealth is how spammable it is for up keep.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Don't delve into theoretical durations, because -as far as I know- it's irrelevant in the current state of the game. Use the existing sources and understand that with your normal stealth applications you have 2-4 seconds per stack, so limiting stacks also limits the time. Right? Right. I don't see the purpose of asking "what if 5 minute from the single source existed" -it just doesn't. And if at some point it will exist then riot. 😆 

 

And he pretty clearly doesn't understand the current limitations seeing how he claims he totally could stack it almost indefinitely at once.

That was coming from cloaking waters I believe. Not that I've used it before, but I heard that it can get a very high duration stealth. Didn't see anything listed on the cloaking waters page on the wiki, so I can't confirm anything there.

 

My delving into the theoretical was to clarify what I believe Grand Marshal was trying to discuss. So are you willing to discuss that once he confirms the clarification or would you prefer to evade that discussion?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I understand the how the stacking works now, thanks for that. But it still is not enough in my opinion. As such I was recommending on a time limit to stealth application with a "gare period" after reveal, similalry to how another user described it earlier. Sorry if the point didn't come across as intended. 

 

Idea of the post was to provide ideas and suggestions that can make stealth more easily countered. And with the recent change to superspeed, that was a perfect example. Ofc I doubt there would be a drowback with superspeed, but reveal for 1 or 2 seconds after a specific time limit while in stealth would make sense imo. 

[Caitir.6947]

It's kinda funny, because the only time I think stealth is really a problem is when there's some Chrono or Thief hiding out (near) permanently in stealth in a keep to threaten a portal in WvW, but in that one circumstance it just feels absolutely miserable rooting them out, and depending on how evasive they are it can actively lose you participation for doing the right thing. That's basically the one situation where I think Stealth is particularly problematic. 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

i think they should up reveal time and make it so it always applies when you come out of stealth, regardless of whether you attacked someone. also no, ofc you shouldn't be able to remove revealed. its so dumb how deadeye can do that. i'm not sure long duration stealth is a problem, if its set to 10 sec max, or even 6, one shot teefs can still port in and kill you. all that would do is hurt coop play. i guess it would make dealing with teefs in objectives easier but overall i think it would do more harm then good.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Stand The Wall.6987

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

There is a max stealth time limit that you can stack.  However there are different types of stealth, Mesmer stealth is different than Thief/Engineer/smoke field stealth. I believe the Mesmer stealth stacks a lot longer than the others.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Red Haired Savage.5430