Making Chalice of Tears a requirement for completion is a horrible, horrible thing to do to players with disabilities.

[Chaba.5410]

15 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Chalice of Tears is a horrible thing to do, full-stop.

Not really.  Some of us like having difficult challenges in a game because completing the challenge feels like a big accomplishment and that's always a great feeling.  A horrible thing is feeling like a game is far too easy.

 

As for the OP's topic of requiring the challenge for some completion, that's a completely different discussion.  Thankfully there are alternative community-led ways of completing the challenge without having to plow through it the intended way so that players have choices.

[Chaba.5410]

LOL, silly forum software....

[BlueJin.4127]

1 hour ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

Totally rude. Stop being selfish and realise that people with disabilities should be able to have fun and live their life as normal people.
I mean what is wrong with you? The person stated that they  have nerve damage and instead of saying many positive things you went and said that?
I really wish you never have to suffer from disablities but clearly you do not care it seems.
 

Well said. Some people are just too narrow minded and rude if anybody has an issue that doesn’t matter to them. And from my experience, these are the people who throw a big fit when it finally affects them.

 

1 hour ago, Eraden.8740 said:

I too have disabilities that make certain activities in the game almost undoable. I do not want the developers to make the game easier for me though. That would ruin the game for normal players. It's up to me to either adapt or do without. Fortunately for me, the community here is really nice and when I needed help, a nice mesmer came along and helped me out. Look to your fellow players if you are having difficulty. The people here are kind and quite helpful!

Another good point. It’s impossible to cater to every single person, whether it’s due to a disability, time commitment, financial burden, or what-not. It’s always nice to have options, when possible, though.

 

Things like the absurdly bright flashing lights this game likes to spam are a complete different matter. They not only cause pain to people who already have sensitive eyes, they're bad for everybody. And there's absolutely no reason to spam the game with bright flashing lights. I digress, though.

Edited July 7, 2021 by BlueJin.4127

[Abies.8754]

11 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Not really.  Some of us like having difficult challenges in a game because completing the challenge feels like a big accomplishment and that's always a great feeling.  A horrible thing is feeling like a game is far too easy.

 

As for the OP's topic of requiring the challenge for some completion, that's a completely different discussion.  Thankfully there are alternative community-led ways of completing the challenge without having to plow through it the intended way so that players have choices.

I agree on that. having challenging content is nice and fun. 
having it as a requirement for rewards like the legendary amulet/32slot bag and stuff is what might be a bad thing because some people are left out. They could add more achievements on the returning meta achievements and keep the tiers as it is ( So people can do what they prefer, like the story journal meta achievements where we could complete them without doing every single achievement on the map/story).
I.e on the ember bay map, they could keep the achievements as they are, needing 8 to finish the meta achievement and add 1 or 2 more possible achievements that need events like the Jade construct boss or the karka event chain or skritt chests)

Edited July 7, 2021 by Owatatsumi.5038

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

  

7 minutes ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

having it as a requirement for rewards like the legendary amulet/32slot bag and stuff is what might be a bad thing

 

so aurora legendary trinket should not have those collections as well and any legendary collection that requires challenging content as collection achievement shd not have challenging content as well... fractal cm, raids... might be interesting... different perspective...🤔

Edited July 7, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[radda.8920]

12 minutes ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

I agree on that. having challenging content is nice and fun. 
having it as a requirement for rewards like the legendary amulet/32slot bag and stuff is what might be a bad thing because some people are left out. They could add more achievements on the returning meta achievements and keep the tiers as it is ( So people can do what they prefer, like the story journal meta achievements where we could complete them without doing every single achievement on the map/story)

 

it makes no sense to have access to a legendary item without any challenge 😞

 

Yes not everyone will have access to it and this is quite normal, this is what makes the object different. if everyone has it, it would be bland and it wouldn't be legendary

it's kind of like legendary raid armor, if anyone could have it easily, it would destroy the whole purpose of the skin.

 

well, it seems to me to be something banal, what I'm saying. In the majority of the mmos, we do not have access to this type of object without showing some abilities. Which makes it a long-term goal.

Edited July 7, 2021 by radda.8920

[Abies.8754]

1 minute ago, radda.8920 said:

 

it makes no sense to have access to a legendary item without any challenge 😞

 

Yes not everyone will have access to it and this is quite normal, this is what makes the object different. if everyone has it, it would be bland and it wouldn't be legendary

it's kind of like legendary raid armor, if anyone could have it easily it would destroy the whole purpose of the skin.

That is... something I cannot disagree sadly.
Then the only thing that we could do as a community is being helpful as much as possible on those stuff. Not sure wha telse could be done. They could make stuff more grindy and less jump dependent i guess with having more available achievements ( like do x event y times) ( while not removing the jumping puzzle ones for those who like thhem)

[BlueJin.4127]

Better yet, give players options. Quick but hard method, and an alternative easy but long method. This way, players who want challenge can get the challenge they want, but players who don’t want challenge can still earn it in other ways.

Edited July 7, 2021 by BlueJin.4127

[radda.8920]

5 minutes ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

That is... something I cannot disagree sadly.
Then the only thing that we could do as a community is being helpful as much as possible on those stuff. Not sure wha telse could be done. They could make stuff more grindy and less jump dependent i guess with having more available achievements ( like do x event y times) ( while not removing the jumping puzzle ones for those who like thhem)

 

Yes, this jumping puzzle is not even what I call a challenge given the multitude of mesmers every meter.

It can be done in less than one hour by completely relying on the others players  ...

Edited July 7, 2021 by radda.8920

[Abies.8754]

Just now, BlueJin.4127 said:

Better yet, give players options. Quick but hard method, or an alternative easy but long method.

I mean they did that with the story journal meta achievements.
A good example is the Shadow In the Ice. It got tons of annoying strike achievements while at the same time it got the mysteries( annoying repetitive but easier)+ forest/fishing/totem achievements( grindy but way easier).
They could do that on those returning too

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

1 minute ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

Better yet, give players options. Quick but hard method, and an alternative easy but long method.

2 options laid infront of you...

1. Use/follow a mesmer portal to finish the (woeful hard)jp and done with it in 15 mins
2. Grind the map for 14 days to get a rare drop that unlocks the collection item eg:  Account bound "strange rock" to finish the collection

what would u take

[Witch of Doom.5739]

2 minutes ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

Better yet, give players options. Quick but hard method, and an alternative easy but long method. This way, players who want challenge can get the challenge they want, but players who don’t want challenge can still earn it in other ways.

Just popping in to say the same thing.  An easy mode for those of us with hand or vision issues (raising my withered arthritic claw in sympathy) to get a vanilla achievement, harder mode(s) for those who want more of a challenge, with commensurate rewards.

[Astralporing.1957]

14 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

it makes no sense to have access to a legendary item without any challenge 😞

True. But that challenge really should not lie in trying to struggle with bad design.

[Abies.8754]

22 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

2 options laid infront of you...

1. Use/follow a mesmer portal to finish the (woeful hard)jp and done with it in 15 mins
2. Grind the map for 14 days to get a rare drop that unlocks the collection item eg:  Account bound "strange rock" to finish the collection

what would u take

If I was in a spot where I can't stand the JP, I would go the 2nd way.

I would go the first way only if I had people that would be patient enough to help me .( That happened today for me, I helped dozens of people for the Vexxa lab and one person was really slow and asked me few times what to do. I kept redoing the thing for that one person and was happy to help them. They even went and sent me gold , which I returned back  because I wasn't intending on being payed.)
My point is, that idea is nice and solves a lot of issues for people who want to avoid social interactions(yea they exist) or have disablities. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Owatatsumi.5038
Typos

[Astralporing.1957]

4 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

2 options laid infront of you...

1. Use/follow a mesmer portal to finish the (woeful hard)jp and done with it in 15 mins
2. Grind the map for 14 days to get a rare drop that unlocks the collection item eg:  Account bound "strange rock" to finish the collection

what would u take

For Chalice of Tears? I bet that many players would gladly have that second option. On a map i was on there was someone that was doing that JP for 6 straight hours. (and unfortunately for them, there were no mesmers in the jumping puzzle)

[radda.8920]

5 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

True. But that challenge really should not lie in trying to struggle with bad design.

 

This is your personal opinion, next to it there will be other players who will find this  jumping puzzle very pleasant to do (as me).

 

like raiding, a lot of casus find it abominable and too hard, and yet we don't have to adapt the legendary armor to their level.

Edited July 7, 2021 by radda.8920

[Astralporing.1957]

5 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

 

This is your personal opinion, next to it there will be other players who will find this  jumping puzzle very pleasant to do (as me).

 

like raiding, a lot of casus find it abominable and too hard, and yet we don't have to adapt the legendary armor to their level.

Raids are a very good example, seeing as the content is so unpopular it ended up abandoned by devs. Frankly, they might have put a raid in the place of Chalice, and the end effect would be the same - most players getting turned off.

The difference being that in Chalice you can at least catch some portal squads if you're lucky. For the next week anyway. With raids, you;d have to buy runs, and there's not enough sellers anyway.

 

We're not talking here about some side content for niche players. We're talking about an event that is aimed at mainstream of the GW2 community. As such, it should be adapted to that level.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Abies.8754]

3 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

 

This is your personal opinion, next to it there will be other players who will find this  jumping puzzle very pleasant to do (as me).

 

like raiding, a lot of casus find it abominable and too hard, and yet we don't have to adapt the legendary armor to their level.

The thing is to have options so everyone can have the same opportunities.
Legendary Armor in example is something that can be done 3 ways. Raids(Hard), PvP(Medium-hard), WvW(Easy(if you pve objectives)-Medium). If one likes challenges, they are free to raid non stop and get the envoy herald title in this example.
Story Journal Achievements too, need like 30 for completion and there are like 40 available( so people can chose to ingore 10 i.e)
Again if one wants challenge, they can go and clear every single achievement.
I personally like challenges and have done/ am doing , all JPs raids etc. But I can understand the frustration of people that  can't do the same.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

8 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

 

This is your personal opinion, next to it there will be other players who will find this  jumping puzzle very pleasant to do (as me).

this jp can be rated moderate hard not very hard.. but are u sure it felt pleasant to do? with invisible 1 pixel footing spots? u might've felt that u've accomplished something that most others couldn't but...

idk if the journey was pleasant though...

if u felt pleasant in doing something, u shd be tempted to do it over and over again.. do you still feel you like to do this jp again and again even if u wont get any rewards for completing it? if u felt tempted, then u might've felt pleasant in ddoing it... else, u shd rethink that.

 

Raids on the other hand is really pleasant.. i am tempted to kill a raid boss twice even thrice continuously...

Edited July 7, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[radda.8920]

13 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Raids are a very good example, seeing as the content is so unpopular it ended up abandoned by devs. Frankly, they might have put a raid in the place of Chalice, and the end effect would be the same - most players getting turned off.

The difference being that in Chalice you can at least catch some portal squads if you're lucky. For the next week anyway. With raids, you;d have to buy runs, and there's not enough sellers anyway.

 

We're not talking here about some side content for niche players. We're talking about an event that is aimed at mainstream of the GW2 community. As such, it should be adapted to that level.

 

 

 

This is the biggest disappointment I had with gw2, the abandonment of the raids.

A good game must vary his  content to attract several types of players....abandoning raids will just cause a small part of the players to abandon guild wars.

nobody forces you to do raids, you can very well let the HM players to do this content without it impacting your personal game. Especially since you can have the legendary armor with  a different way. It's the same with the legendary amulet, you can go to pvp.

Edited July 7, 2021 by radda.8920

[radda.8920]

19 minutes ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

The thing is to have options so everyone can have the same opportunities.
Legendary Armor in example is something that can be done 3 ways. Raids(Hard), PvP(Medium-hard), WvW(Easy(if you pve objectives)-Medium). If one likes challenges, they are free to raid non stop and get the envoy herald title in this example.
Story Journal Achievements too, need like 30 for completion and there are like 40 available( so people can chose to ingore 10 i.e)
Again if one wants challenge, they can go and clear every single achievement.
I personally like challenges and have done/ am doing , all JPs raids etc. But I can understand the frustration of people that  can't do the same.

 

frustration is part of life , I know that in our society people endure it less and less but we cannot have everything ...

For example, I am very bad at beetle races. I'm an achievement farmer and yet I never managed to get the golden haloween reward. I have to deal with it, I find it too complicated for me and boring to do but I will not come and complain on the forum.

 

In addition you want different way to have the amulet and there is already one in pvp.

 

crystal paladin >

I obviously took less pleasure in doing this jump than in doing a series of raids But it was pretty fun to do it again.

I took 40 minutes, it was fast. And I don't feel that the players around me took much longer

Edited July 7, 2021 by radda.8920

[Abies.8754]

1 minute ago, radda.8920 said:

 

frustration is part of life , I know that in our society people endure it less and less but we cannot have everything ...

For example, I am very bad at beetle races. I'm an achievement farmer and yet I never managed to get the golden haloween award. I have to deal with it, I find it too complicated for me and boring to do but I will not come and complain on the forum.

 

In addition you want different way to have the amulet and there is already one in pvp.

Well I agree and disagree at the same time. The content accessibility is a gray zone that cannot be solved easily obviously.
I stand with my suggestion that they could add long grindy options on the pve leggies like aurora or new amulet( ones that want to finish quickly can do the JP, ones that want to do it easily without relying on others can just grind for longer)

[radda.8920]

3 minutes ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

Well I agree and disagree at the same time. The content accessibility is a gray zone that cannot be solved easily obviously.
I stand with my suggestion that they could add long grindy options on the pve leggies like aurora or new amulet( ones that want to finish quickly can do the JP, ones that want to do it easily without relying on others can just grind for longer)

 

I see what you mean but the problem is that grind is not at all a challenge.

So they would have to find something else, I don't know, maybe  a specific achievement  during a story instance like: kill one boss with a hard mode particle ( with much more complicated mechanics )

[Abies.8754]

2 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

 

I see what you mean but the problem is that grind is not at all a challenge.

So they would have to find something else, I don't know, maybe  a specific achievement  during a story instance like: kill one boss with a hard mode particle ( with much more complicated mechanics )

That could also work. In similar way to Ad Infinitum requiring CMs( t1/t2/t3) but of story ( like the Taimi's Game instance with the mobs, having boons and more HP+Damage i.e)

To conclude( for me), there could be more ways to make content more accessible while still challenging.

[JustTrogdor.7892]

I managed to do it with GW2 TacO and the Prototype Position Rewinder.  I never thought I would try this jumping puzzle because I'm not very good at them and I heard how punishing it is.  Even though there was a Mesmer on the map porting people to each checkpoint I decided to give it a go on my own.  It took me about 40 minutes, most of that time was waiting for the rewinder to come off cool down when I missed a jump.  It felt really cool when I finally made it to the top.   

 

But I can see where this would be extremely difficult for people with physical limitations.  But as noted, there are Mesmers forming squads to get people through it.  So I would suggest joining one and following their directions.   Oh and make sure you give them a nice tip once they get you through it.  🙂

Edited July 7, 2021 by JustTrogdor.7892