Making Chalice of Tears a requirement for completion is a horrible, horrible thing to do to players with disabilities.

[Obtena.7952]

If it's an consolation, there are LOTS of good people out there helping others get this done ... but I suspect that will be short lived to this week, so get out there and ask for help.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

I just got it via a squad with a few mesmers.  I'm sure there will be some all week long, esp. on the weekend.  The ones in mine were especially patient with us and didn't leave anyone behind. 

 

 

 

[Witch of Doom.5739]

47 minutes ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

What of it?  Nerve damage doesn't relieve you from using your brain. Unless they actually have some type of mental disability. I was porting people for 4 hours on first day. Some of the squad that were helping people with the jumping puzzle would require from you to only press F without moving. LITERALLY all you had to do is to place F couple of times and listen to commanding mesmer's instructions. 
It's an amazing opportunity to make friends. Get yourself a guild or a single friendly mesmer to help you with this JP. That's what community in MMOs is for. 

I got the impression that the OP was trying to do it himself/herself at first, which is what I always try first too.  I spent literally hours and hours on this JP and didn't succeed on my own, ending up relying on (and tipping) two extremely helpful Mesmers.  While I'm beyond grateful for their help, stubborn me wishes I'd been able to do it solo but I just couldn't.

[Bingus.4236]

"You can easily find people to help you cheat it" is not exactly the best defence.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

17 minutes ago, Witch of Doom.5739 said:

I got the impression that the OP was trying to do it himself/herself at first, which is what I always try first too.  I spent literally hours and hours on this JP and didn't succeed on my own, ending up relying on (and tipping) two extremely helpful Mesmers.  While I'm beyond grateful for their help, stubborn me wishes I'd been able to do it solo but I just couldn't.

Same.  I tried all afternoon and logged out at a safe spot near the start.  When I logged back in the squad was just starting up.  I was going to keep checking all week to see if I could get into one.  So grateful for the mesmers doing this, happy to tip for their help.

 

9 minutes ago, Bingus.4236 said:

"You can easily find people to help you cheat it" is not exactly the best defence.

I think it speaks highly  of the helpful community here.

[Vidit.7108]

I think requiring this specific jumping puzzle was a bad choice. I'm not disabled and have never completed it on my own (or the halloween one), and i would not have completed it this week without a mesmer.
Reading the topic here there are two terrible ideas going around. Frist that the legendary amulet needs sufficient challenge befitting the reward. Second that it doesn't matter how hard it is because you can get a mesmer in ember bay to do it for you this week. 
To the first group of people who think this is about challenge, then let's go ahead and disable all skills and portals at every jumping puzzle in the game. Only the best players should ever have legendaries right? Then I suppose everyone should also have to solo tequalt to complete their precursor collections they can't have anyone helping them if legendary equipment is about rewarding the bests players. If Anet wanted it to be about skill then we would never have had the mystic forge and random drops as our only way for obtaining precursors for years.
To the second group, I spent months checking lfg for a mesmer to do this jumping puzzle after trying many times on my own with guides and not making it. It's not fair to go around expecting mesmers to put the time commitment into helping you for everything, past this week I doubt many will be making regular trips to find people working on their legendary amulet or aurora. This idea is taking for granted that this week there are a lot of really nice mesmers willing to help other players out. I don't find this suggestion that it's currently not a problem to be very considerate of the fact that will be a problem again in near the future.

I do think they should have given it a few extra achievements like they do for annual festivals. I hope that any disabled player who finds this jp too hard in the future is still able to find someone to port them up there and their topic bemoaning the difficulty is visited by some more considerate people

[AgentMoore.9453]

8 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

I am so curious how this will age.

Well, hopefully. In my experience, I've always been able to get help when I ask for it (even with that awful Vabbi meta), and if I see someone struggling, I have often stopped to assist them myself. I understand that the help being offered is going to taper in volume the further away we get from this event week, but the achievements are going to stay, and therefore people will keep doing them and therefore, hopefully, the help will continue among those able to offer it.

 

5 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Some of us like having difficult challenges in a game

For sure, which is why I'd never ask them to take something out of the game just because it's rough for me. I think Chalice of Tears is a Bad Feels experience, but I certainly don't speak for everyone. I only said it's a 'horrible thing to do full-stop' to make the point that people with disabilities aren't the only ones to feel dismay where this puzzle is concerned. Thank you for all three of your replies.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

I never want to see the Chalice of Tears again. Bless the mesmers who helped along the way. The check is in the mail. 🙂

[Math.5123]

All you need to do is download taco and follow a dotted line. That's it. 

 

This game is already easy as is. Stop catering to exceptions rather than the rule.

[Ultramex.1506]

The JP design is horrible, with or without disabilities, at least they learned their mistakes with the Siren's Landing JP

 

Oh and I don't consider terrible, awful design = challenge

Game is easy doesn't mean we need to justify BS. 

[The Boz.2038]

Siren's JP is beautiful.

[Astralporing.1957]

10 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

 

I see what you mean but the problem is that grind is not at all a challenge.

Again, Chalice is not a challenge. Unless you consider it a challenge to your sanity. In fact, i'd put it towards grind scale far more. You just keep repeating that jump until you won't slide. And you do that for all the next jumps, until at some point they all accidentally line up so you won't fall until the next check point.

That's how i did it. I haven't "overcome the challenge". I definitely didn't improve doing it. If i were to try it again, i would do it exactly the same way, at the very same level of skill. Or perhaps next time i would simply pay a mesmer.

 

And the fact that most of the people defending it also point out how easy it is to cheat with friendly mesmers, clearly shows what they really think about that.

 

It's not a challenge. It's a roadblock.

 

 

 

[Ashantara.8731]

On 7/7/2021 at 7:17 AM, Stalkingwolf.6035 said:

wasnt there checkpoints you have to achieve?

 

Yes, and they will port you step by step. It's impossible to lay a port from the start at the bottom of the volcano to the very top of it anyway, I would assume.

 

I understand that this JP poses a huge obstacle to some with certain disabilities, but you can't ask for only simple achievements (especially for a legendary trinket) because of that. It would not be fair to the majority of players who like difficult tasks to feel they have earned the great reward at the end.

[HigsBoson.9205]

As someone who has recently had hand and wrist issues due my day job I can completely understand how some elements (sPvP with ele + keybinds, some JPs) of GW2 would cause increased pain/problems to someone with or without a disability. 

I switched to playing PvE and some WvW with a controller to ease some pain and turns out GW2 is quite controller freindly.

 

I completed CoT last night using the controller, 90% of the attempt was solo with the last 10% (slightly before the long glide near the end) coming across a helpful Memser.  

I did this on my Mesmer and helped some players along the way.

 

OP if you're able to try a controller I highly recommend giving it a go. It has allowed me to continue playing my all time favorite game while being on the mend.

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by HigsBoson.9205
Words

[Zaxares.5419]

I agree that it's not a pleasant move for anybody who has serious trouble with movement, but I echo the advice of everybody in this thread; make sure you hang out in the map for the next few days and join one of the Mesmer squads doing point to point portal tours through it.

[titje.2745]

17 hours ago, hanabal lecter.2495 said:

Another disability pity post? Not everything is made for everyone, everything in the world cant cater to your needs and necessities.

that’s why games can be a nice place. irl I can’t afford a Ferrari. In games you can also obtain nice things to make you happy. I think often like this. The prices are much lower in a game. Someone is happy with a expensive watch. I can be happy with a nice mount. irl it’s not always fair for everyone. So ingame it should be, except when things are very difficult. But in guildwars 2 it is very balanced. Because difficult things can be completed by pro’s who carry not so good players. If I want something ingame that’s expensive it takes just longer before I can buy it. irl many things are just impossible to buy. At least for me. But if I stay healthy then i am rich ❤️   And as others said. With mesmers this is also possible for you. 

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

Yes, and they will port you step by step. It's impossible to lay a port from the start at the bottom of the volcano to the very top of it anyway, I would assume.

 

I understand that this JP poses a huge obstacle to some with certain disabilities, but you can't ask for only simple achievements (especially for a legendary trinket) because of that. It would not be fair to the majority of players who like difficult tasks to feel they have earned the great reward at the end.

People keep bringing up the legendary amulet, while forgetting that the amulet is not the goal here. Amulet is the means.

 

The achievement may reward legendary at the end, but it is not a legendary colelction quest. It is a "let's get people occupied and interested in the game" quest. And Chalice requirement does not align with that goal at all.

[Abies.8754]

12 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

What of it?  Nerve damage doesn't relieve you from using your brain. Unless they actually have some type of mental disability. I was porting people for 4 hours on first day. Some of the squad that were helping people with the jumping puzzle would require from you to only press F without moving. LITERALLY all you had to do is to place F couple of times and listen to commanding mesmer's instructions. 
It's an amazing opportunity to make friends. Get yourself a guild or a single friendly mesmer to help you with this JP. That's what community in MMOs is for. 

I will repeat what I already clarified yesterday.
The issue is when people are throwing negativity on these cases instead of offering to help or advise ( Like you did in a way, you did not start being rude and negative like some people in here. I am helping people on daily JPs too myself and I know that there are ways to help.)
One can share their oppinion without being impolite. That is all.

And many suggestions have been stated on this post already which might be good.

[Danikat.8537]

12 hours ago, Bingus.4236 said:

"You can easily find people to help you cheat it" is not exactly the best defence.

I don't see it as cheating. It's a multiplayer game, it's supposed to require help from other players sometimes.

 

Some people can complete dungeons solo, but that doesn't mean everyone should be expected to do dungeons solo or that it's cheating to ask for a group when you know other people have done it solo. Some people figure out new and more effective builds and how to use them and other use them by following their instructions, but that's not considered cheating, it's a widely accepted part of playing the game.

 

In this case mesmers help players through something they're having trouble with, at other times those players will help other people with things they're struggling with and cannot do solo. That's not cheating, it's playing a multiplayer game together with other people, the way it's designed.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

11 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

All you need to do is download taco and follow a dotted line. That's it. 

 

This game is already easy as is. Stop catering to exceptions rather than the rule.

Knowing where to go is not the same as successfully getting there. Believe me, I tried.  Many many many many times.  Congrats to all the folks with skillsets in this JPs wheelhouse.  I'm not one of them, I'm ok with that.  I'm glad for the help I got and encourage people to look for it if you need it.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Kaliwenda.3428

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I have no doubt that being part of an active guild can help with the OP's issue.  5 players with mesmers in my guild teamed up to portal anyone in the guild who wanted to do the puzzle to each checkpoint and then the top.  The hard part was the coordinating so everyone was ready at the same time.  That sort of cooperation was very fun -- much more fun for me than it would have been to do the puzzle solo -- and without any of the weeping, wailing and the gnashing of teeth that GW2 Jumping Puzzles can be for those with less than stellar manual dexterity.

[Ashantara.8731]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

People keep bringing up the legendary amulet, while forgetting that the amulet is not the goal here. Amulet is the means.

 

The achievement may reward legendary at the end, but it is not a legendary colelction quest. It is a "let's get people occupied and interested in the game" quest. And Chalice requirement does not align with that goal at all.

 

I look at it differently. To me, the goal is the amulet - sorry.

[Ashantara.8731]

20 hours ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

Totally rude. Stop being selfish and realise that people with disabilities should be able to have fun and live their life as normal people.

 

While I agree on that sentiment in general (and yes, that response was totally ignorant), I think that there will always be something that not everyone can do - that goes for people without disabilities as well (including myself). That doesn't mean that it should be kept from people who can.

 

However, it would probably have been a good idea to design the achievement system for the Return series in a way that provides people with alternatives...