Making Chalice of Tears a requirement for completion is a horrible, horrible thing to do to players with disabilities.

[radda.8920]

20 minutes ago, Yggranya.5201 said:

If games were designed around the fact that someone somewhere might be disabled, games would be pretty boring.

 

Instead you should consider the fact that Chalice of Tears is a horrible, horrible thing to do to ANYONE. Sadistic? Yes, yes it is.

it is above all, the almost final work of one of the greatest talents of arena net. I would have much preferred that this man come back instead of colin, it is a genius.

 

His jumping puzzles are really missing in game ... cantha without him, it won't be the same 😞

 

he could have done an extraordinary jumping puzzle in kaineng city.

Edited July 7, 2021 by radda.8920

[Astralporing.1957]

15 hours ago, corwin.8356 said:

Speaking as someone with extensive nerve damage in his hands I saw this on my achievement screen and just sunk. It's almost sadistic.

Oh, it is as sadistic even for those without any disabilities.

 

47 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

it is above all, the almost final work of one of the greatest talents of arena net. I would have much preferred that this man come back instead of colin, it is a genius.

 

His jumping puzzles are really missing in game ... cantha without him, it won't be the same 😞

 

he could have done an extraordinary jumping puzzle in kaineng city.

Well, at least we're not likely to get more of those atrocities, which is a good thing in my book.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I've done that thing I believe three times now because of Aurora...don't look forward to doing it again.  Wish they'd just tick it off if you've completed it prior....

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

56 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

it is above all, the almost final work of one of the greatest talents of arena net. I would have much preferred that this man come back instead of colin, it is a genius.

 

His jumping puzzles are really missing in game ... cantha without him, it won't be the same 😞

 

he could have done an extraordinary jumping puzzle in kaineng city.

pls no more invisible 1 pixel vertical 89 degree slanted footing jumping puzzles... no mountain climber would try to jump on such a non-existent spot... coddler's cove footing space is the bare minimum u can reduce the footing space.. if u go any less, its not jp.. its a poor excuse of texture polygon design for jp or whatever

Edited July 7, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[Abies.8754]

1 hour ago, hanabal lecter.2495 said:

Another disability pity post? Not everything is made for everyone, everything in the world cant cater to your needs and necessities.

Totally rude. Stop being selfish and realise that people with disabilities should be able to have fun and live their life as normal people.
I mean what is wrong with you? The person stated that they  have nerve damage and instead of saying many positive things you went and said that?
I really wish you never have to suffer from disablities but clearly you do not care it seems.
 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Owatatsumi.5038

[radda.8920]

17 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Oh, it is as sadistic even for those without any disabilities.

 

Well, at least we're not likely to get more of those atrocities, which is a good thing in my book.

 

I just finished it in 40 minutes without having touched it for 3 years, you are exaggerating so much ...

 

and he didn't just do this one, he also did the best jumps in the game (he created the SAB, and clock tower among other things ...)

Edited July 7, 2021 by radda.8920

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

1 minute ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

Totally rude. Stop being selfish and realise that people with disabilities should be able to have fun and live their life as normal people.
I mean what is wrong with you? The person stated that they  have nerve damage and instead of saying many positive things you went and said that?
 

Well said and thank you. Some people have no tact. Disgusting.

[Zephire.8049]

Chalice is pretty terrible and needed another pass or two over it to make it better. With other JPs, there are people who do them for fun even after completing them. AFAIK, very, very few people do Chalice for anything other than achievements or the loot at the end, or helping someone else do it for achievements.

 

The design simply isn't user friendly (multiple leaps of faith, insta-down mechanics, ledges that don't match the visual, ranged mobs, stacks of burning, etc.) and requiring players to do it multiple times is bad. Yes there was a meme about doing it again the moment the Returning events were announced but that doesn't mean it had to happen.

 

If you miss out on the initial rush and you don't have the time or ability to do it yourself, you have to wait for something to appear in LFG and be prepared to drop what you're doing to go do it because you don't know when the next chance will appear.

 

Even Not So Secret is better than Chalice and that's saying something.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, Zephire.8049 said:

Chalice is pretty terrible and needed another pass or two over it to make it better. With other JPs, there are people who do them for fun even after completing them.

I'm one of those people that do JPs for fun. It makes me hate Chalice even more.

 

2 minutes ago, Zephire.8049 said:

Even Not So Secret is better than Chalice and that's saying something.

It definitely was until they bugged the whirling gear catapults (which, btw, are still not fixed, after years of being in this state). Although even with that bug it might be still better. Would have to check it out again soon to compare.

[Eraden.8740]

I too have disabilities that make certain activities in the game almost undoable. I do not want the developers to make the game easier for me though. That would ruin the game for normal players. It's up to me to either adapt or do without. Fortunately for me, the community here is really nice and when I needed help, a nice mesmer came along and helped me out. Look to your fellow players if you are having difficulty. The people here are kind and quite helpful!

[Mungo Zen.9364]

Chalice of Tears, working as intended. Keep weeping but the Chalice will never be full…

[Sobx.1758]

30 minutes ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

Totally rude. Stop being selfish and realise that people with disabilities should be able to have fun and live their life as normal people.
I mean what is wrong with you? The person stated that they  have nerve damage and instead of saying many positive things you went and said that?
I really wish you never have to suffer from disablities but clearly you do not care it seems.

Yeah, they want to live their life as normal people, so totally keep treating all of them like children. (it's almost as if that's specifically something a lot of people with disabilities despise, eh?) 

 

Anyways, it feels like the person you responded to mostly called this thread for what it is. If OP just went to that map, he'd see there are a lot of portals going on through this jp, which makes this thread pretty pointless.

[Abies.8754]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Yeah, they want to live their life as normal people, so totally keep treating all of them like children. (it's almost as if that's specifically something a lot of people with disabilities despise, eh?) 

 

Anyways, it feels like the person you responded to mostly called this thread for what it is. If OP just went to that map, he'd see there are a lot of portals going on through this jp, which makes this thread pretty pointless.

It is not special treatment. It is being humane and helping people that cannot do stuff that most people can because they were lucky and do not have disabilities.
If you were at the same spot think how you would feel. Or to be honest, you can't because you will propably never be on same spot. So do not rush into conclusions or trick yourself into believeing you know what those people feel. And yea  they do not want to be treated specially in most cases but they do not want to feel excluded.
Yea the game should not be adjusted but people can at least be considerate and help  or at least keep their oppinions for themselves when they are not able to really understand.
p.s, so yo uare really saying that people who cannot walk and are being helped by other, are treated like children? or people who cannot feed themselves/ cannot write etc. Think a bit more about what you just said.
I really will not reply anymore I have said more than enough.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

It is not special treatment. It is being humane and helping people that cannot do stuff that most people can because they were lucky and do not have disabilities.

As I said, there are people portalling people from checkpoint to checkpoint, what point are you trying to make? How is this even responding to anything I wrote?

 

3 minutes ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

And yea  they do not want to be treated specially in most cases but they do not want to feel excluded.

Portaaaaaaaaaaaals, what point are you trying to make? Don't make content that some people might not be able to complete or they'll feel excluded? Great idea, except that absolutely not. Even moreso when there is nothing that tells him he needs to do this jp, achievement or set of achievements.

 

3 minutes ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

Yea the game should not be adjusted but people can at least be considerate and help  or at least keep their oppinions for themselves when they are not able to really understand.

But I am able to understand and you pretending I don't, which frankly is based on absolutely nothing won't change that.

The game should not be adjusted, exactly. So, again, what point are you trying to make? What is this thread? What is your actual goal here?

 

3 minutes ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

p.s, so yo uare really saying that people who cannot walk and are being helped by other, are treated like children?

(...and more stupidly irrelevant examples)

Did I say people that run portals between those checkpoints are treated like children? Where? I even said that it's a perfectly good option for people that can't or don't want to complete it by themselves. Do you really need to setup some stupid strawmen here to paint me as something I'm not? huh. Maybe next time respond to what I actually wrote, because for now you still didn't.

 

 

[radda.8920]

anyway it's been like this from the start of the game with this community:

raids are too hard> it will no longer exist

HOT it's too hard> nerf

jumping puzzles  are too hard> they hardly exist anymore

metas events that require coordination, it's too hard> nerf, nerf and nerf again too

basically arena should just  add content that require  bus spam 1 and farm , that's the only thing that satisfies the players of this game ^^

Edited July 7, 2021 by radda.8920

[Chichimec.9364]

16 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It's been a requirement for the legendary trinket as well.

My best advice to you is to get a portal from mesmers this week.

Thank you. I found someone on LFG who was portaling people through this jp. Ugh, it was an ugly place and it took the mesmer almost half an hour to get some thirty people through all the checkpoints. I never would have made it through there on my own.

[Abies.8754]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

As I said, there are people portalling people from checkpoint to checkpoint, what point are you trying to make? How is this even responding to anything I wrote?

 

Portaaaaaaaaaaaals, what point are you trying to make? Don't make content that some people might not be able to complete or they'll feel excluded? Great idea, except that absolutely not. Even moreso when there is nothing that tells him he needs to do this jp, achievement or set of achievements.

 

But I am able to understand and you pretending I don't, which frankly is based on absolutely nothing won't change that.

The game should not be adjusted, exactly. So, again, what point are you trying to make? What is this thread? What is your actual goal here?

 

Did I say people that run portals between those checkpoints are treated like children? Where? I even said that it's a perfectly good option for people that can't or don't want to complete it by themselves. Do you really need to setup some stupid strawmen here to paint me as something I'm not? huh. Maybe next time respond to what I actually wrote, because for now you still didn't.

 

 

The point is the other person abeing rude. That is all.  You didnt need to go and defend the one who said "another disability pity post?" which was really rude as the post owner didn't intend to be pitied.

18 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yeah, they want to live their life as normal people, so totally keep treating all of them like children. (it's almost as if that's specifically something a lot of people with disabilities despise, eh?) 

 

you  thought that my point was that previously and keep trying to prove that I said that, when I just said that people with disablities deserve equal treatment on most things. The portals exist  and people should have just went and offered to help( few went and  informed properly the person) instead of saying "game is what it is deal with it" which was rude. 

[Abies.8754]

10 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Portaaaaaaaaaaaals, what point are you trying to make? Don't make content that some people might not be able to complete or they'll feel excluded? Great idea, except that absolutely not. Even moreso when there is nothing that tells him he needs to do this jp, achievement or set of achievements.

 

where exactly did I say that? Did I specifically say that they should not make content that people cannot play? I just said to the rude person that they should be less rude.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

moderator.. pls u might want to close this thread too

[Abies.8754]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

awww so after setting up some stupid strawmen in an attempt to tell me I say or think something I never did, you still have nothing relevant to say to my posts? Then what's the point of quoting me? Just comment on what I said finally and stop pretending anyone needs you as their defender.

Nice manipulative tactic . really. Hope that you change you way of thinking especially about these kind of cases. And I stop the thing here because you are being rude and obviously you msis the point. My initial post was about people that are rude to ones with disabilites. At least I am not defending impoliteness and apathy of other as I care most of  the time.

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

Nice manipulative tactic . really. Hope that you change you way of thinking especially about these kind of cases. And I stop the thing here because you are being rude and obviously you msis the point. My initial post was about people that are rude to ones with disabilites. At least I am not defending impoliteness and apathy of other as I care most of  the time.

Is it manipulative? What's manipulative is you trying to shove a strawman down my throat and pretend it's true (or even relevant to anything in this thread or my post specifically) when you said things like:
"p.s, so yo uare really saying that people who cannot walk and are being helped by other, are treated like children? or people who cannot feed themselves/ cannot write etc. Think a bit more about what you just said." 

This has completely nothing to do with what I said and it's a sad attempt at painting someone as some kind of literal villain, huh. Talk about manipulating.

 

 

And you've responded before I added this to the previous post:

"OP didn't intend it" -ok, so what did he intend? YOU even said above you don't think the game should be changed according to everyone, didn't you? So what was the point?

And they DO have equal treatment ingame, how about you start being more specific instead of throwing out these meaningless broad claims that just sound nice and do nothing more than that?

 

^and I think this will be a more reasonable direction of taking this whole thing into. What are the expectations of OP or yours in regards of this thread?

Edited July 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Abies.8754]

19 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Is it manipulative? What's manipulative is you trying to shove a strawman down my throat and pretend it's true (or even relevant to anything in this thread or my post specifically) when you said things like:
"p.s, so yo uare really saying that people who cannot walk and are being helped by other, are treated like children? or people who cannot feed themselves/ cannot write etc. Think a bit more about what you just said." 

This has completely nothing to do with what I said and it's a sad attempt at painting someone as some kind of literal villain, huh. Talk about manipulating.

 

 

And you've responded before I added this to the previous post:

"OP didn't intend it" -ok, so what did he intend? YOU even said above you don't think the game should be changed according to everyone, didn't you? So what was the point?

And they DO have equal treatment ingame, how about you start being more specific instead of throwing out these meaningless broad claims that just sound nice and do nothing more than that?

Keep going at it really. Says a lot about you, trying to prove a thing out of nothing. You started this  ( without even getting my point at the post I made for OTHER person) and for some reason you are trying to prove  something. Wish there was a block thingy in here. I will not be more specific to you, I am not obliged  to do so. and you should stop making assumptions about what I do and not. You have no idea what others do to help everyone.

My expectation was clearly that people should be less Rude and instead of wasting time being rude, they could offer on helping the person or at least inform them on the portal squads that exist. I personally go and mentor people about skips, shortcuts and ways to do stuff easily on daily basis.
On this post I had nothing to contribute because others already had informed about the portals. I only replied to the one that assumed it was a pity post because that was rude.
Hope I was clear enough.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Owatatsumi.5038

[Sobx.1758]

13 minutes ago, Owatatsumi.5038 said:

Keep going at it really. Says a lot about you, trying to prove a thing out of nothing. You started this  ( without even getting my point at the post I made for OTHER person) and for some reason you are trying to prove  something. Wish there was a block thingy in here. I will not be more specific to you, I am not obliged  to do so. and you should stop making assumptions about what I do and not. You have no idea what others do to help everyone.

Ah, so another dodge. That's good enough for me, at least apparently now you understand what you were doing above, which is why you don't even want to mention anything about that. Cheers.

 

...and you treat people like children NOT "because you want to help them" (which noone ever said not to do in here), but because you DIDN'T help them and still pretended you're better than them and they need your protection here, while at the same time you claim to know the reason this thread was created for, but when asked for it.... Nope, no answer. And that somehow makes me bad, sure.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Abies.8754]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ah, so another dodge. That's good enough for me, at least apparently now you understand what you were doing above, which is why you don't even want to mention anything about that. Cheers.

EDITS exist nowdays no? have fun and good luck 

[Chaba.5410]

15 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Chalice of Tears is a horrible thing to do, full-stop.

Not really.  Some of us like having difficult challenges in a game because completing the challenge feels like a big accomplishment and that's always a great feeling.  A horrible thing is feeling like a game is far too easy.

 

As for the OP's topic of requiring the challenge for some completion, that's a completely different discussion.  Thankfully there are alternative community-led ways of completing the challenge without having to plow through it the intended way.