Mesmer overhaul

[Axl.8924]

Do you think mes will get a overhaul? I heard only mirage with melee range which seems really hard countered by more than 1 class.

 

I heard chrono was broken in SPVP fundamentally and only mirage was viable, and the video i just saw of mirage looked like it was a lil hard countered by classes, due to having to be in melee range constantly for that aoe thing.

 

 

Posted by jazzxman.

 

I kinda wonder sometimes since the design is in melee range and sometimes i dislike that most classes being forced to melee range design, and if its a good idea.

 

I understand the reasoning for it: It forces risk for reward dmg.

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Leonidrex.5649]

17 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Do you think mes will get a overhaul? I heard only mirage with melee range which seems really hard countered by more than 1 class.

 

I heard chrono was broken in SPVP fundamentally and only mirage was viable, and the video i just saw of mirage looked like it was a lil hard countered by classes, due to having to be in melee range constantly for that aoe thing.

 

 

Posted by jazzxman.

 

I kinda wonder sometimes since the design is in melee range and sometimes i dislike that most classes being forced to melee range design, and if its a good idea.

 

I understand the reasoning for it: It forces risk for reward dmg.

 

the thing aboust mesmers ranged weapons is that they are " RANGED "
mesmer always needs to get in close, 
1 staff autos bounce
2 you usually run 1 melee, 1 ranged weapon, to make use of all your kit you gotta go melee
3 shatters are melee so you gotta get close
4 staff autos/gs2/gs4/staff 5 works better at close range/melee 
And honestly that is a good thing, standing at 1-1,5k range and just shooting isnt great, but what IS cool is dipping in and out of range as it gives room for interesting combat for both sides ( if done properly )

Logically chrono CSplit is broken, having a skill that resets all your cooldowns is just bonkers when you stop and think about it, and the rest of the skills, weapons and traits have to suffer for it.

[Axl.8924]

Csplit is something that needs fixed for sure.

 

I-m also glad they nerfed staff for mirage, because reading up it seems its supposedly fine, but before was doing 50k.

 

GS has a little bit of range not much.

 

I hope in future they might solve the issue with power mirage somehow by overhauling it, maybe small one so peeps can choose that.

 

Its pretty terrible when core gets hit because of a elite.

If they are inclined also for people to keep alive the illusions, can they please have more health?

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Axl.8924

[dandamanno.4136]

11 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Csplit is something that needs fixed for sure.

 

I-m also glad they nerfed staff for mirage, because reading up it seems its supposedly fine, but before was doing 50k.

 

GS has a little bit of range not much.

 

I hope in future they might solve the issue with power mirage somehow by overhauling it, maybe small one so peeps can choose that.

 

Its pretty terrible when core gets hit because of a elite.

If they are inclined also for people to keep alive the illusions, can they please have more health?

 

From a PvE perspective I would still like to see Illusions be far beefier than they are currently.

 

Also, clones are the Mesmers resource. Why do they die if your target dies? Does a Warriors adrenaline vanish if the enemy they were building adrenaline on dies? Of course not, they just switch targets and use their burst skill which is as it should be. What about Necro, does its shroud vanish if the targeted enemy dies resulting in them having to build shroud from scratch after each kill? No.

 

If Mesmer clones target dies, clones should simply retarget to the next closest enemy, or ideally to the next target the Mesmer hits with a skill.

[Junkpile.7439]

Core mesmer needs perma stealth. That would make one hit build viable. Now you can only one hit power spec users and often medium and heavy armor users survive. Condi necro for example doesn't die under second.

[XenesisII.1540]

On 7/11/2021 at 3:01 PM, dandamanno.4136 said:

From a PvE perspective I would still like to see Illusions be far beefier than they are currently.

 

Also, clones are the Mesmers resource. Why do they die if your target dies? Does a Warriors adrenaline vanish if the enemy they were building adrenaline on dies? Of course not, they just switch targets and use their burst skill which is as it should be. What about Necro, does its shroud vanish if the targeted enemy dies resulting in them having to build shroud from scratch after each kill? No.

 

If Mesmer clones target dies, clones should simply retarget to the next closest enemy, or ideally to the next target the Mesmer hits with a skill.

 

When you look at it, clones are a terrible mechanic, they should have been designed to be treated like ghost or phantoms or holograms, and treated like ammo/projectiles where no one is able to target and affect them, you can only dodge/block them, they're resources required to trigger more powerful effects which are also usually on long cooldowns and can also be dodged/blocked, which is a double whammy on the shatter mechanic.

 

Every other class mechanic are resources like adrenaline, astral force, deadeye mark, life force, the rest are cooldowns, but all do not have physical forms that can also be fully affected by everything a player can be, which is why they're practically useless in wvw zergs. The preview eod pic they had showed what looked to be ammo/projectiles(like wow frost mage) on top of their head, so hopefully that's the direction they're going in.

Edited July 17, 2021 by XenesisII.1540

[Alpha.1308]

21 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

which is why they're practically useless in wvw zergs. The preview eod pic they had showed what looked to be ammo/projectiles(like wow frost mage) on top of their head, so hopefully that's the direction they're going in.

 

i basically sorta agree

clones/phantasms are fine basically, for the duelist idea they were going for on mesmer

it's strong, almost too strong for them to figure out a good balance for in small-scale pvp

and in pve, mesmers are already like one of the strongest choices, aren't they?

 

if they were treated like guardian spirit weapons, they'd be even more broken in the places they're already strong

unless you bog them down with silly overnerfing 

which... wouldn't be good for anyone 

 

but... yea, don't pigeonhole 3 specs (core, both elites) into using these things

it was a horrible decision 

 

but meanwhile, the thing i disagree with, which isn't really a you thing, because you're not wrong, it's in the picture itself:

 

let's freaking hope they AREN'T projectiles 

holy BUTTS, please, no

 

you think clones/phantasms are bad in wvw?

 

at least shatters themselves can be used for very mediocre damage around you at 0 clones, cleanses/very minor healing from inspiration, and stab/boons in chaos, not to mention distortion, which might get removed in the process of getting rid of clones   

 

but good luck getting projectiles to land

that's also why i'm hoping so much that we don't get a bow like some people kept asking for

at least not one with projectiles....

 

i get it, it's mesmer, even on a bow they don't have to actually use projectiles, it could be mind tethers for all we know

 

but dagger/spear would be a safer bet to have some form of cleaving, despite them also being.... able to be "throwing daggers" or "javelins".... urk....

 

Illusionary Weaponry as a concept has so much potential, and i hope they don't trash on it with "hhaha daggers/spears above ur head go burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"

 

i'm gonna be so disgusted if that's all it's reduced to, after all these years of dealing with this trashy NPC mechanic, all we get in this game with "accidental" projectile reflect all over the freaking map is just projectiles as a class mechanic 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Alpha.1308

[XenesisII.1540]

4 hours ago, Alpha.1308 said:

Illusionary Weaponry as a concept has so much potential, and i hope they don't trash on it with "hhaha daggers/spears above ur head go burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"

 

i'm gonna be so disgusted if that's all it's reduced to, after all these years of dealing with this trashy NPC mechanic, all we get in this game with "accidental" projectile reflect all over the freaking map is just projectiles as a class mechanic 

 

Well projectiles isn't a great fix either, but it's better than clones that don't even survive to do anything at all. And while we could also suggest giving clones more survivability, I know all players not playing mesmer will lose their heads over that change. They could also give phantasmals the guardian spirit weapons treatment, but those aren't that great either.

 

Just really sucks the major mechanic for mesmers which has multiple traits in all lines, is hampered by a terrible resource.

/shrug

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

On 7/11/2021 at 3:50 AM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

Logically chrono CSplit is broken, having a skill that resets all your cooldowns is just bonkers when you stop and think about it, and the rest of the skills, weapons and traits have to suffer for it.

It's like people still don't know ANerf way of doing stuff.
If they nerf CSplit, everything else will stay the same, that's a given.

[Axl.8924]

On 7/18/2021 at 9:19 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

 

Well projectiles isn't a great fix either, but it's better than clones that don't even survive to do anything at all. And while we could also suggest giving clones more survivability, I know all players not playing mesmer will lose their heads over that change. They could also give phantasmals the guardian spirit weapons treatment, but those aren't that great either.

 

Just really sucks the major mechanic for mesmers which has multiple traits in all lines, is hampered by a terrible resource.

/shrug

 

 

What if the projectiles were slow? I was just thinking about this for pvp scenarios, and folks with lots of projectile hate counter projectiles pretty hard.

 

Necro and ele  solve this problem, not sure about how problematic that would be in pve, and not completely sure if this would solve it.

[XenesisII.1540]

6 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

What if the projectiles were slow? I was just thinking about this for pvp scenarios, and folks with lots of projectile hate counter projectiles pretty hard.

 

Necro and ele  solve this problem, not sure about how problematic that would be in pve, and not completely sure if this would solve it.

 

Like I said projectiles aren't a great fix either, because of all the projectile/blocking hate in wvw. I only suggested projectiles to keep that physical range part of the shatter skills, while eliminating some of the other "unfair" variables that could/usual does stop it. Ultimately ground aoes are the easiest and safest aoes to use, hence why necros and ele's and revs are so accepted in zergs.

 

They could just make the shatter skills instant hit without the projectile part, but like everything else involving mesmer, people's heads will explode about that change I'm sure. Either way, we find clones terrible for ammo, and our enemies find it terrible to fight clones, so a modification somewhere in there could make both sides happy for a change.

[Axl.8924]

2 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

 

Like I said projectiles aren't a great fix either, because of all the projectile/blocking hate in wvw. I only suggested projectiles to keep that physical range part of the shatter skills, while eliminating some of the other "unfair" variables that could/usual does stop it. Ultimately ground aoes are the easiest and safest aoes to use, hence why necros and ele's and revs are so accepted in zergs.

 

They could just make the shatter skills instant hit without the projectile part, but like everything else involving mesmer, people's heads will explode about that change I'm sure. Either way, we find clones terrible for ammo, and our enemies find it terrible to fight clones, so a modification somewhere in there could make both sides happy for a change.

Actually why hasn't ANET given a ammo system to shatter 1?

[Genesis.5169]

Launch Chrono and Launch Mirage were fine, all they needed to do was number tweaks.

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

Actually why hasn't ANET given a ammo system to shatter 1?

There's a trait that does that.

[Salt Mode.3780]

The reason why no one knows that F1 shatter trait actually has an ammo system traited is because rarely do mesmer builds run illusions or use that trait in general. 

The biggest problem with mesmer is traits don't have any synergy and most trait requires running dueling spec for the purpose of deceptive evasion.

 

[draxynnic.3719]

4 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

The reason why no one knows that F1 shatter trait actually has an ammo system traited is because rarely do mesmer builds run illusions or use that trait in general. 

The biggest problem with mesmer is traits don't have any synergy and most trait requires running dueling spec for the purpose of deceptive evasion.

 

Yeah, there's a big difference between 'it exists' and 'it's worth using'.

 

Illusions does get used in condition builds, but it tends to compete with Chaos, with whichever is stronger at the time being the one that gets used. It's really not a priority for power builds, though, and it's power builds that you'd want buffed Mind Wrack with.

[Quadox.7834]

On 7/11/2021 at 2:50 AM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

the thing aboust mesmers ranged weapons is that they are " RANGED "
mesmer always needs to get in close, 
1 staff autos bounce
2 you usually run 1 melee, 1 ranged weapon, to make use of all your kit you gotta go melee
3 shatters are melee so you gotta get close
4 staff autos/gs2/gs4/staff 5 works better at close range/melee 
And honestly that is a good thing, standing at 1-1,5k range and just shooting isnt great, but what IS cool is dipping in and out of range as it gives room for interesting combat for both sides ( if done properly )

Logically chrono CSplit is broken, having a skill that resets all your cooldowns is just bonkers when you stop and think about it, and the rest of the skills, weapons and traits have to suffer for it.

Having a skill which makes you invulnerable to all damage and cc for multiple seconds, while being able to attack during it, is also bonkers and broken.

[Quadox.7834]

On 7/11/2021 at 7:36 AM, Axl.8924 said:

Csplit is something that needs fixed for sure.

 

I-m also glad they nerfed staff for mirage, because reading up it seems its supposedly fine, but before was doing 50k.

 

GS has a little bit of range not much.

 

I hope in future they might solve the issue with power mirage somehow by overhauling it, maybe small one so peeps can choose that.

 

Its pretty terrible when core gets hit because of a elite.

If they are inclined also for people to keep alive the illusions, can they please have more health?

 

what needs fixing about CS

[Axl.8924]

1 hour ago, Quadox.7834 said:

what needs fixing about CS

 

The shatters in general feel weird.

 

I don't understand why it doesn't start with ammo system and why continuum split has a 105 sec CD?

 

Seems kinda busted, on the other hand its sounds like such a strong ability to teleport you with full health endurance and back  to when you started area, plus skill recharged all cept that one.

 

 Granted i am probably wrong because i kinda misunderstood what the ability is for.

 

[Genesis.5169]

We just need to go back in time to post nerf HoT chrono, post nerf PoF mirage, with all the old sigils runes and amulets back.

[AXLIB.8425]

1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

The shatters in general feel weird.

 

I don't understand why it doesn't start with ammo system and why continuum split has a 105 sec CD?

 

Seems kinda busted, on the other hand its sounds like such a strong ability to teleport you with full health endurance and back  to when you started area, plus skill recharged all cept that one.

 

 Granted i am probably wrong because i kinda misunderstood what the ability is for.

 

The ability by itself is really strong, but anet nerfed everything else so you have to use cs to have competitive burst with the likes of dh, holo, and reaper, all hit similar if not higher burst with the press of a few buttons.

 

The shatter just feel like a badly designed class mechanic that is also outdated. No other class gets punished for doing something successful (killing the enemies). And your clone often just die before you can shatter them in anywhere outside of Pve, so you don't even get to uses the full shatter. Think of it like warrior loses adrenaline when they take damage so they can't use their level 3 burst, and if they do they also lost most of their sustain, as mesmer barely have any damage migration other clone, stealth and dodge.

 

What's even worse is that not only your damage is tied to shatter and thus clone generation, also your supportive ability in terms of keeping others alive (healing and aegis). I wish anet will some time in the future rework inspiration and chrono's all well that ends well so mesmer can actually be a decent healer. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by AXLIB.8425

[otto.5684]

3 hours ago, Quadox.7834 said:

Having a skill which makes you invulnerable to all damage and cc for multiple seconds, while being able to attack during it, is also bonkers and broken.

And yet Mesmer has been outside of the spvp meta for like 2 years now (yes, even before the Feb 2020 patch, which completely killed mirage). Is the skill overloaded? Yes. Is it causing mesmer to our perform? No. 

[Quadox.7834]

8 minutes ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

The ability by itself is really strong, but anet nerfed everything else so you have to use cs to have competitive burst with the likes of dh, holo, and reaper, all hit similar if not higher burst with the press of a few buttons.

 

The shatter just feel like a badly designed class mechanic that is also outdated. No other class gets punished for doing something successful (killing the enemies). And your clone often just die before you can shatter them in anywhere outside of Pve, so you don't even get to uses the full shatter. Think of it like warrior loses adrenaline when they take damage so they can't use their level 3 burst, and if they do they also lost most of their sustain, as mesmer barely have any damage migration other clone, stealth and dodge.

you can definitely do massive damage on power mirage too so CS is not strictly necessary. Core is lacking though.

[Axl.8924]

11 minutes ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

The ability by itself is really strong, but anet nerfed everything else so you have to use cs to have competitive burst with the likes of dh, holo, and reaper, all hit similar if not higher burst with the press of a few buttons.

 

The shatter just feel like a badly designed class mechanic that is also outdated. No other class gets punished for doing something successful (killing the enemies). And your clone often just die before you can shatter them in anywhere outside of Pve, so you don't even get to uses the full shatter. Think of it like warrior loses adrenaline when they take damage so they can't use their level 3 burst, and if they do they also lost most of their sustain, as mesmer barely have any damage migration other clone, stealth and dodge.

 

mes needs a huge overhaul then if they are so dependent on 1 long cd.

I also don't like pets dying so fast and chrono feels kinda bad with having such a big sort of bridge in getting good numbers out in burst.

 

Its so awkward because by the time i get 2 out the mobs are dead.

 

Why is there this awkward build up of illusions that takes forever and i can't really bring it out fast enough to even dps? everyone's outbursting me.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Quadox.7834]

8 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

And yet Mesmer has been outside of the spvp meta for like 2 years now (yes, even before the Feb 2020 patch, which completely killed mirage). Is the skill overloaded? Yes. Is it causing mesmer to our perform? No. 

Lmao you missed my point, that guy said Continuum Split is "broken" and "bonkers" so I made the point that distortion is also extremely strong and that's why losing distortion and getting continuum split is a good tradeoff for chronomancer.