Legendary armor is... Locked for some people.

[Cyninja.2954]

9 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

yo, your link is broken, and no matter how I attempt to fix it the only restult is "Access denied" xml 😉

 

aside from the link last time I checked, while Aion did outperform gw2 financially, it was all only on far eastern market, whith virtually no income from western audiences, and GW2 was last product of NCSoft that was actually earning any money on those western audiences.

True, but that is a very small thing to hold on to is it not?

 

If the only reason GW2 sees continued development is:"well NCSoft wants to keep a presence in the western market, even if the game is falling behind all their other IP", it is only a matter of time until shut down.

 

EoD and what it delivers is set in stone by now. The studio is likely working on final details, polish, bugs, etc. How successful the game will be come 2022 and on will be seen.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Trejgon.9367]

1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

True, but that is a very small thing to hold on to is it not?

 

Not really, and let me elaborate on that:

comparatively there is more buck to be made from western audiences than it is from far-eastern (excluding china, china is it's own market) purely by the population and wealth difference. No company is going to abandon such a market unless they are dying on their own (i.e. if collectively none of NCSoft product was earning enough to cover their presence on both markets).

 

The "falling behind other franchises" ceases to have meaning when pretty much all of income from GW2 originates from places where other franchises fails to bring any money. Usually you want to rake in moneys from all the markets you could, which is for example why so many game studios has been recently on a streak of trying to appease china to let them get onto that market as well, despite having huge earnings from markets they were already established at.

 

Until NCSoft can get another franchise to start earning profits from western market, thay are more likely to push for GW2 to increase their profits, than to actually shut the game down. Or at least that was the situation last time I was conducting my own investigation on the subject.

[Astralporing.1957]

14 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Anet needs to stop listening to design decisions like these. These kill game modes.

Not enough player interest (caused by mode being designed for too narrow target group) is what kills game modes

 

[Cyninja.2954]

21 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

Not really, and let me elaborate on that:

comparatively there is more buck to be made from western audiences than it is from far-eastern (excluding china, china is it's own market) purely by the population and wealth difference. No company is going to abandon such a market unless they are dying on their own (i.e. if collectively none of NCSoft product was earning enough to cover their presence on both markets).

You are looking at past and current revenue. Your assumption does not hold up when looking at revenue developments and potential future revenue. You might want to exclude China, since it does not fit your assumption, but that does not mean the revenues and effects from that market are not felt even here in the west.

 

21 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

The "falling behind other franchises" ceases to have meaning when pretty much all of income from GW2 originates from places where other franchises fails to bring any money. Usually you want to rake in moneys from all the markets you could, which is for example why so many game studios has been recently on a streak of trying to appease china to let them get onto that market as well, despite having huge earnings from markets they were already established at.

 

Yes, and that is the main reason that GW2 is seeing support at the moment.

 

On a related note, NCSoft had no problem axing every other MMORPG in the western market which had a poor performance. To believe they will indefinitely spend money on a stagnating or shrinking franchise is foolish.

21 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

Until NCSoft can get another franchise to start earning profits from western market, thay are more likely to push for GW2 to increase their profits, than to actually shut the game down. Or at least that was the situation last time I was conducting my own investigation on the subject.

 

A new franchise or manage to gain traction on an existing one. Final Fantasy is the perfect example for a game which can make a grand turn-around. In case any of the other IP NCSoft holds manage that in the west, their appetite for sponsoring GW2 will diminish.

 

They have invested into Arenanet and GW2. They did so 2-3 years ago when even despite low revenue they green-lit the development of an expansion after they sent a warning shot for more financial frugality towards Arenanet. This investment will now have to bear fruit.

[Dante.1763]

4 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Exactly why we have been asking for an open world set. A long chain across the world doing all kinds of collections achievements kills and even dungeon runs..in order to have something for the majority of players. I hope they do something with the feedback. They should engage more with us imo.

Im on your side 😛

I do want an open world set despite my love of raids. More access to massive qol items like legendaries are a boon, not a bad thing.

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Dante.1763

[Trejgon.9367]

42 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

You are looking at past and current revenue. Your assumption does not hold up when looking at revenue developments and potential future revenue. You might want to exclude China, since it does not fit your assumption, but that does not mean the revenues and effects from that market are not felt even here in the west.

 

No, I excluded china in here because it is literally separate market from the rest of Far East. You can thank China government for that one. And when China is separate market all together, how many coutries are we looking at again? What is their total population? And now compare it to pretty much rest of the globe. That was my point. Now on china vs western market we could have a very long and elaborate talk, but that is besides the point, beause it is not china where NCSoft had most profit from last time I checked (unless they do now, then I will stand corrected).

 

47 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

On a related note, NCSoft had no problem axing every other MMORPG in the western market which had a poor performance. To believe they will indefinitely spend money on a stagnating or shrinking franchise is foolish.

 

Yes, they had no issue axing every other MMORPG, while HAVING STILL OTHER FRANCHISES that were earning money there. No longer a case, unless there is new huge successfull at western markets NCSoft MMO I have failed to notice.

 

49 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

A new franchise or manage to gain traction on an existing one. Final Fantasy is the perfect example for a game which can make a grand turn-around. In case any of the other IP NCSoft holds manage that in the west, their appetite for sponsoring GW2 will diminish.

 

Ok let's be realistic a bit in here, neither Aion, nor Lineage (nor any other NCSoft title that provides big chunk of profits in Korea/Japan) is going to receive overhaul on level of FF14 at this point just to appease Westerners. Considering differnt requirements between the markets, that would just be axing current profits for a hope of profits elsewere.

 

That aside yes - if GW2 will not improve, AND there will be a franchise owned by NCSoft that would make great success at western markets, they will be much less lenient on keeping AN around. But that is all doing alot of assumptions and ifs.

 

53 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

They have invested into Arenanet and GW2. They did so 2-3 years ago when even despite low revenue they green-lit the development of an expansion after they sent a warning shot for more financial frugality towards Arenanet. This investment will now have to bear fruit.

 

And we will see those fruits relatively soon 😉 but even then untill they manage to supplant GW2 with other source of revenue from Western markets I don't think they will shut down AN completely. Cutting costs? yeah sure. Enforcing more aggressive monetization? perhaps. Straight out axing of whole studio with nothing up to replace the revenue stream? I don't think so.

[Cyninja.2954]

16 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

No, I excluded china in here because it is literally separate market from the rest of Far East. You can thank China government for that one. And when China is separate market all together, how many coutries are we looking at again? What is their total population? And now compare it to pretty much rest of the globe. That was my point. Now on china vs western market we could have a very long and elaborate talk, but that is besides the point, beause it is not china where NCSoft had most profit from last time I checked (unless they do now, then I will stand corrected).

By dismissing China you are essentially ignoring a huge impact on the industry and direction games and game development have and are taking. It's not only about revenue but what type of games are being developed. Neither of which are in favor of MMORPGs or GW2 atm.

Quote

Yes, they had no issue axing every other MMORPG, while HAVING STILL OTHER FRANCHISES that were earning money there. No longer a case, unless there is new huge successfull at western markets NCSoft MMO I have failed to notice.

Exactly, which is an issue IF another of their IP should gain traction in the west, no?

Quote

Ok let's be realistic a bit in here, neither Aion, nor Lineage (nor any other NCSoft title that provides big chunk of profits in Korea/Japan) is going to receive overhaul on level of FF14 at this point just to appease Westerners. Considering differnt requirements between the markets, that would just be axing current profits for a hope of profits elsewere.

Sure, if those were on the horizon, I doubt there would have been any funding for GW2. Which does not mean one can simply ignore the competing in house products or just pretend that a fluke or lucky, aka unlucky for GW2 players, might not happen.

Quote

That aside yes - if GW2 will not improve, AND there will be a franchise owned by NCSoft that would make great success at western markets, they will be much less lenient on keeping AN around. But that is all doing alot of assumptions and ifs.

Correct less to near none, given past other in-house MMORPG franchises, an we are on the same page.

Quote

And we will see those fruits relatively soon 😉 but even then untill they manage to supplant GW2 with other source of revenue from Western markets I don't think they will shut down AN completely. Cutting costs? yeah sure. Enforcing more aggressive monetization? perhaps. Straight out axing of whole studio with nothing up to replace the revenue stream? I don't think so.

 

I disagree. There does not need to be another source of income to reach a state where the support for GW2 dries up (unless you are assuming that NCSoft wants to keep a presence in the west at all cost, which we can only speculate on). Unless the game recovers, NCSoft will not continually take risks in funding. They already axed most side projects. It's not an immediate action but rather the result of a continual process.

Let's assume (completely unrelated to any other MMORPG being successful in the western market for NCSoft):

1. the EoD expansion does mediocre (or even well, it's long term which matters)

2. revenue for GW2 remains constant at low levels -> less funding for future GW2 related development

3. less funding results in a decline of content, leading to further revenue decline

4. continue until you reach the point from 2-3 years ago where a decision was made to reinvest into GW2

 

That decision at point 4 will not always come back with a "yes, let's risk it". In fact the more often that decision comes up, the more likely it will eventually result in a "not worth the risk again".

Edited August 4, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Yakuzai.6593]

The thing is, you have to be able to play multi roles/classes in order to be happy and successfull with raiding. You cant expect to everytime find a squad by only playing DPS.... Its like 80% of the playerbase runs around as DPS and rush in LFG for fractals, dungeons, strikes or raids. Now as yo can see the demand is very high for supporters, so its only rational to start gearing at least 1 frequently missing supporter: druid, power alac (diviners), HFB 

It becomes even worse if you play solo and always have to pug with random people. Then your only chance to get comfortable with LFG is to adapt and offer multi classes/roles. By "comfortable" i mean doing your desired activity without loosing to much time to look for it. 

And if you are fresh new player and gearing up another class is too much/taking to long than this is very normal because the initial steps are very steep and respectively cost time and this is only fair because like everyone started low (except whales pumping reallife money into gems and turn it into gold or buying 1000 accounts to share gold to the main acc....sad but true). But after you managed to overcome it, everythin will become much faster.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Yakuzai.6593

[Trejgon.9367]

30 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

By dismissing China you are essentially ignoring a huge impact on the industry and direction games and game development have and are taking. It's not only about revenue but what type of games are being developed. Neither of which are in favor of MMORPGs or GW2 atm.

 

Again, I am NOT "dismissing" china, I am saying that china is separate market to the rest of far east, and therefore not in the scope of argument. China's impact on industry is irrelevant to the revenue streams of NCSoft west.

 

32 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Exactly, which is an issue IF another of their IP should gain traction in the west, no?

 

And according to informations available to me at the moment being that is a pretty big "if"

 

32 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I disagree. There does not need to be another source of income to reach a state where the support for GW2 dries up

 

In theory yes. At the point when GW2 cease bringing profit and start creating losses instead (i.e. revenue provided will get below the cost of running the studio), and even then first course of action would most likely be trying to cut on costs to get positive figures on the profits again. Which I didn't mention in my previous post because from data I have at hand it does not seem as a very likely to happen in predictable future.

 

36 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

4. continue until you reach the point from 2-3 years ago where a decision was made to reinvest into GW2

 

The decision was not to "reinvest" into GW2, decision was to axe everything that is not GW2 and refocus on GW2. And from what I have heard on NCSoft side it was specifically "folks we want you to keep that last MMORPG presence we have on the western markets afloat instead of risking it for some side projects". Which is slightly different.

[Cyninja.2954]

21 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

Again, I am NOT "dismissing" china, I am saying that china is separate market to the rest of far east, and therefore not in the scope of argument. China's impact on industry is irrelevant to the revenue streams of NCSoft west.

 

 

And according to informations available to me at the moment being that is a pretty big "if"

 

 

In theory yes. At the point when GW2 cease bringing profit and start creating losses instead (i.e. revenue provided will get below the cost of running the studio), and even then first course of action would most likely be trying to cut on costs to get positive figures on the profits again. Which I didn't mention in my previous post because from data I have at hand it does not seem as a very likely to happen in predictable future.

 

 

The decision was not to "reinvest" into GW2, decision was to axe everything that is not GW2 and refocus on GW2. And from what I have heard on NCSoft side it was specifically "folks we want you to keep that last MMORPG presence we have on the western markets afloat instead of risking it for some side projects". Which is slightly different.

 

It was a reinvestment. They pumped an additional 112$ million dollars into their western presence starting in 2019. Not all of it went to Arenanet I'd assume.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/dvrox5/ncsoft_made_a_132b_krw_investment_on_ncwest/

https://massivelyop.com/2019/11/14/ncsoft-q3-2019-another-flat-financial-quarter-as-ncsoft-pumps-money-into-ncwest/

 

These investement will not continually repeat and at current western revenue will takes years to recuperate making future such actions or decision unlikely until the money has returned. It's a gamble they took back in 2019 in order to maintain their western presence. Exactly what I mentioned. The decision to take such a risk will not always pass.

 

What you are referring to is them axing side projects BEFORE committing to NCSoft West.

 

EDIT:

Anyway, this is going off topic. There is nothing we as players can do about it besides hope for a great product. No amount of wishful thinking or doom and gloom will change the outcome. I was just clarifying why I disagreed with the assumption that continued support for GW2 from NCSofts side is guaranteed or to be expected if the game does not perform well, while other IP of theirs are growing no matter which market.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Trejgon.9367]

3 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

It was a reinvestment. They pumped an additional 112$ million dollars into their western presence starting in 2019. Not all of it went to Arenanet I'd assume.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/dvrox5/ncsoft_made_a_132b_krw_investment_on_ncwest/

https://massivelyop.com/2019/11/14/ncsoft-q3-2019-another-flat-financial-quarter-as-ncsoft-pumps-money-into-ncwest/

 

These investement will not continually repeat and at current western revenue will takes years to recuperate making future such actions or decision unlikely until the money has returned. It's a gamble they took back in 2019 in order to maintain their western presence. Exactly what I mentioned. The decision to take such a risk will not always pass.

 

ah ok, I was thinking you were refering to something else, didn't see that bit of news back then, my bad then 🙂

[Xanadrine.4352]

5 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

Im on your side 😛

I do want an open world set despite my love of raids. More access to massive qol items like legendaries are a boon, not a bad thing.

 

Thank you Dante 🙂🙂

Edited August 4, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[Dante.1763]

15 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Thank you Dante 🙂🙂

Very welcome.

 

Ive always the mind set of the more the merrier xD

And well, i didnt realize how much i enjoyed legendaries until the armory. QOL of is massive and it shouldnt be a reward for just the few who enjoy x content.

[CashCow.9548]

I think we all deserve a piece of legendary gear.

 

In fact it should be in the 30 day log-in reward box. A piece of gear of your choice. Every month. With zero effort.

 

I mean it's a casual game and I am not even supposed to play it. But I still deserve all the rewards the game offers.

Edited August 4, 2021 by CashCow.9548

[WindBlade.8749]

22 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

https://kr.ncsoft.com/en/ir/irArchive/earningsRelease.do

Q1 earnings

Page 5, Aion has outperformed gw2 for that last two quarters. 

Edit: fixed the link, sorry could not link directly to the download.

that in term of revenue when you say outclassed people understand as number of player, ofc a mobile game get more money than a mmo, and aion use the same kind of monitization, there is no point to use the money gain to say a game is dying you need to look at the playerbase, and Aion seem to have way less players, true we can't be sure of the number of active players but their community is way smaller.

[LSD.4673]

On 8/2/2021 at 1:27 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

TL;DR if you want legendary armor, be it WvW, sPvP (well you need gold so its unlikely you 100% everything in sPvP) or PvE a full ascended set of optmized gear for specific builds (raiding, roaming, open world, zerging, take your pick) is pretty much a prerequisite. Because it takes months and months to get it. Running around in the "wrong" gear waiting for your legendary is pointless.

A full set of exotics is needed, yes. Claiming a full set of ascended is needed is like claiming a full set of attribute infusions is needed -- it's overkill. The numbers come out at just a few percent better performance in most scenarios. 

Get your exotics. Maybe an ascended weapon if you can. 

 

[DodonRay.8740]

İf people can want open world set i have a right to want raid legendary weapon set with little or close to non metarial cost right? :P I dont like open world and endless metarial farms just give us legendary weapons with li only.

Edited August 4, 2021 by DodonRay.8740

[morsdood.1987]

Nobody is locked out of anything, if you want to get into raiding you can look into training groups or training discords and progress from there

[Sobx.1758]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:37 PM, superkaratemonkey.7408 said:

i think a lot of people get too swayed by the community and immediately think raids = toxicity without even giving a try first, then make opinions whilst never even trying raid content. once you start you'll realize it's not even remotely as bad as people make it out to be.

Yup, it really seems this is mostly it. If someone reads through enough threads/posts about issues people claim they have, it's clear a lot of them didn't even try getting into raids and instead repeat false information while demonizing anyone who plays the content.

 

18 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Exactly why we have been asking for an open world set. A long chain across the world doing all kinds of collections achievements kills and even dungeon runs..in order to have something for the majority of players. I hope they do something with the feedback. They should engage more with us imo.

"Exactly why" meaning what in context of the post you've quoted? Because there are no more new raids? Yeah, that surely is the reason here 🙄 

 

13 hours ago, Yakuzai.6593 said:

The thing is, you have to be able to play multi roles/classes in order to be happy and successfull with raiding.

This is false. Multiroling obviously helps, but people playing strictly one role -even dps- also have no problem with participating in random squads.

 

_____

Aww, more reaction emote spamming from people that can't accept facts, how cute 😁

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

On 8/2/2021 at 10:35 AM, Hadi.6025 said:

You have to either grind 60000 hours of Raids in PVE, find a competent group that know what they're doing or get the ugly reskins from WvW. 

Well, let's say it takes you 1000 hours to get good at raids and get consistent clears.  You spend 10 hours a week trying for clears.

The first 20% of that time is spent getting an average of 2 kills a week.  This is 200 hours out of the thousand wind up where you only get 2 kills or 2 LI a week.  This is 40 LI.  Then, let's say this pattern continues.   The next 20% you get an average of 4 kills per week. This is 80 LI.  You now have 120.  Assuming this continues further still, at 80% of t he time for the thousand hours, you're averaging 6 kills a week.  This is 120 LI for a total of 240.  You only need 150 to start your first armor set.  Now at 1k hours, let's just say you finally gain the experience necessary to do a full clear of  wings 1-4.  This is 13 LI a week.  If you never do any of the PoF raids, you'll spend 32 weeks doing this.  At 10 hours a week, that's 320 hours.  You can also finish the collections for the precursor legendary armor in this time. 

Now let's say your exaggeration includes the wait time between raids. 16,800 hours for the first 100 weeks (At 10 hours of training a week) of  "Get gud" and 5,376 hours at 32 weeks of smashing wings 1-4 regularly.   That's still only about 22,176 hours.  Still very far off of your exaggeration. Please at least try to be accurate when you're screaming about raids.  60,000 hours is more accurate to WvW and even that takes only a bit longer than raids. 😔

As for alternative means of acquiring legendary gear;

Raids are PvE.  People need to get over this fact.  There's no PvP in there, there's no WvW in there.  You're not killing other players (Unless you're purposefully failing mechanics), and this content is actually remarkably easy if people give it a try to understand instead of getting frustrated, blaming others, and leaving.  Before you screech about 'toxicity' think for a moment if you've tried the following: Joining your guild on raid trainings, changing your build to be a team player (It's 10 people trying for the same goal, help them out), doing any sort of out of game research, turning d own your graphical settings to still show the boss so you can learn the animations and mechanics ingame.

In WvW, you can afk and cap a camp every 10 minutes for tickets+participation.  Sure you could participate more, but there's no real reason to as the reward structure gives tickets to those who do the bare minimum.

In PvP, you just have to show up to tournaments and occasionally win.  There's always someone worse than you at pvp, so the win is an eventuality.

You have two other options f or legendary gear if you want their functionality.  If you want the skins, you have to do the content they come from.  It's kind of been the rule for every new armor set released in the game especially in regards to PvP and WvW.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

15 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

Very welcome.

 

Ive always the mind set of the more the merrier xD

And well, i didnt realize how much i enjoyed legendaries until the armory. QOL of is massive and it shouldnt be a reward for just the few who enjoy x content.

I deserve champions rest permanent pass that area is so cool . Why shd only gods of PvP enjoy that place? I need an alternate way like 20 worldboss kills shd make that available to me. Same goes for the cool looking goddess of arena wreath and title. And all rewards and title that u get from linking gw1 account shd be available by grinding openworld... Also I should somehow be able to grind the 9 yr birthday rewards even if I'm 2 yrs in gw2 I deserve those birthday rewards why shd only the 9yr loyal players have it .

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

 

I've recently done pug raiding.  Unless you have a static group that lets you play whatever DPS you want while they handle all of the mechanics, then your profession choices are very limited.  This is what you can bring:

 

Chronomancer for Quickness and Tanking

Mirage for Alacrity

Druid for Heals, Might, Immobilize, and most specialty mechanics

Scourge for Epidemic, Boon Removal, Barrier, 

Firebrand for Quickness, Heals, Aegis

Renegade for Alacrity

Warrior for Banners

 

The rest all fall under either specialty mechanics, or DPS.  The damage dealer role is a dime a dozen, and is also usually filled by more of the above wearing berserker/viper gear.  DPS is only recruited after all of those roles have been fulfilled, which leaves around 4-6 spots depending on what people bring and what that specific boss needs.  DPS spots also fill up very quickly, which is why most LFGs are asking for a tank/druid/alacrity/hand kiter/pylon.

 

There's a problem with just getting a static group:  Statics recruit exclusively for the above roles, for the exact same reasons said previously: everyone can do DPS, so they try to get as many role fillers as possible.  It's no biggie if two alacs show up for the night, because one of them just changes to viper gear and is now condi DPS.  

 

So really, the OP is quite correct:  Unless you can do one of the in-demand roles, then you aren't able to raid.  

Notice, how none of it has any relevance to what i said. I never said profession choices are not limited due to player demand. I pointed out that suggesting that OP's power SB build is not useful in raids is factually untrue. It may not be in as wide demand as healing druid is, but it is still useful nonetheless.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

21 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I don't know about you, but i get my apples from nearby store, thank you very much. I'm not young enough anymore to be climbing trees for them, i'm afraid. That's something for kids to do.

 

So, you, kids, keep climbing trees. Leave the apples in stores for the adults though.

Either u understood the point I'm trying to convey or you pretend that u don't... Idk...

 

Ppl shd do x things to get y stuff is all I conveyed in that post. Idk what to reply to your idea of getting stuff...

 

Why didn't anet made everything in-game available for purchase with gems? But then again u know the answer what's the point of developing an mmo with varying content?

 

The whole idea of mmo is to motivate ppl to do all the content an mmo has to offer. 

 

U can't get "marathon winner trophy" by doing horse riding

Edited August 5, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[Astralporing.1957]

11 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

Either u understood the point I'm trying to convey or you pretend that u don't... Idk...

 

Ppl shd do x things to get y stuff is all I conveyed in that post. Idk what to reply to your idea of getting stuff...

 

Why didn't anet made everything in-game available for purchase with gems? But then again u know the answer what's the point of developing an mmo with varying content?

 

The whole idea of mmo is to motivate ppl to do all the content an mmo has to offer. 

No. the whole idea of the MMO is to make people play in a social environment. Nothing more.

 

The point of developing varied content is to give something to different people. Not to make all the people play everything.

 

And in the end, the ultimate truth is that most people simply do not share your like of raids. And you cannot force them to change their mind. I know that liking something most other players do not value can be hard, but all raging against it really does is to make you look like a little kid complaining that the adults do not climb trees for apples, and as such do not consider his climbing skills to be worth noticing.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

7 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No. the whole idea of the MMO is to make people play in a social environment. Nothing more.

 

The point of developing varied content is to give something to different people. Not to make all the people play everything.

 

And in the end, the ultimate truth is that most people simply do not share your like of raids. And you cannot force them to change their mind. I know that liking something most other players do not value can be hard, but all raging against it really does is to make you look like a little kid complaining that the adults do not climb trees for apples, and as such do not consider his climbing skills to be worth noticing.

so the so called adults in your context don't wish to run in marathons and yet they WANT a "marathon trophy"?