Why does BG not have a 2nd linked server?

[jul.7602]

Why is that BG doesn't have a 2nd linked server? It's quite obvious that based on their abysmal KDR, and the spawn camping in EBG,  that BG needs and additional linked server to compete more fairly.

Edited August 4, 2021 by jul.7602

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

Or maybe to compete more fairly, Mag doesn't need a link.

[XenesisII.1540]

Pfft BG needs to be linked with Mag.

 

[Bristingr.5034]

These troll threads are terrible quality.

[LetoII.3782]

19 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Pfft BG needs to be linked with Mag.

 

Trying to spark Armageddon, are we?

[XenesisII.1540]

10 minutes ago, LetoII.3782 said:

Trying to spark Armageddon, are we?

 

Alliances is the armageddon, we need one last lulz before we get to it!

[Stand The Wall.6987]

oh no, the humanity. some dev please save sleepgate and give them special treatment to let everyone else what time it is for the 20th time.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Stand The Wall.6987

[displayname.8315]

https://i.imgur.com/3Lthezk.jpg

 

Save them!  Need more links pronto!  #Beastgate 😭

Edited August 5, 2021 by displayname.8315

[Sanchez.4017]

 

On 8/5/2021 at 7:48 AM, displayname.8315 said:

https://i.imgur.com/3Lthezk.jpg

 

Save them!  Need more links pronto!  #Beastgate 😭

 

Ok, what is there to flex about?
https://imgur.com/a/4Wx2LQs

[displayname.8315]

5 hours ago, Sanchez.4017 said:

 

 

Ok, what is there to flex about?
https://imgur.com/a/4Wx2LQs

You talking bout JQ with their double guild map queue blob that rallies up to 2 times per day almost every day?  You flexin on that farm?  Meh it gets old and just more guild stacking. 

 

Organic fights actually change and you don't end up sitting in a tower avoiding the lord to pad your gamer score.

 

What's the overall btw?  Total kills and avg KDR more interesting.

[MedievalThings.5417]

7 hours ago, Sanchez.4017 said:

 

 

Ok, what is there to flex about?
https://imgur.com/a/4Wx2LQs

It's not a flex.  There are people in the game who actually think KDR is equated to skill, and not representative of what it actually is...a reference number for who had more in the fight.

[displayname.8315]

1 hour ago, Ubi.4136 said:

It's not a flex.  There are people in the game who actually think KDR is equated to skill, and not representative of what it actually is...a reference number for who had more in the fight.

I wouldn't say its simply who had more.  It can be who did well in the evenish fights.  It can also be who fought well outnumbered vs who did the usual 1 push bum rush strategy and got farmed because that's all they know and all they think WvW is.

Edited August 6, 2021 by displayname.8315

[Gotejjeken.1267]

WvW is about PPT no matter what the playerbase thinks.  You don't move up and down tiers via KDR, you move based on warscore which is in turn based on PPT.  

[alcopaul.2156]

when 6 persons can technically defend a paper tower, how much more if it's t3?

 

so, do you always need to max out your squad to map queue? 

 

you can even theoretically make the whole ebg map yours even at prime time of the 3 main servers if you know how to distribute and move your server persons across all maps..

[XenesisII.1540]

30 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

WvW is about PPT no matter what the playerbase thinks.  You don't move up and down tiers via KDR, you move based on warscore which is in turn based on PPT.  

 

Well actually you can get points for kills. So technically you can move up or down the tiers via KDR, although yes it's more likely you would move down if your server only focuses on that.

 

Yes wvw is about ppt scoring. Too bad a good chunk of players/servers don't really care about that anymore, and actively try to avoid T1 in NA. They ppt to position themselves in the mid tiers if anything, which also means they try to avoid ppting too. Population and coverage is the real difference here, if you don't have it there's no point trying, there's no reason to be the top server other than to brag you got bandwagoned.

 

 

 

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

 

Well actually you can get points for kills. So technically you can move up or down the tiers via KDR, although yes it's more likely you would move down if your server only focuses on that.

 

Yes wvw is about ppt scoring. Too bad a good chunk of players/servers don't really care about that anymore, and actively try to avoid T1 in NA. They ppt to position themselves in the mid tiers if anything, which also means they try to avoid ppting too. Population and coverage is the real difference here, if you don't have it there's no point trying, there's no reason to be the top server other than to brag you got bandwagoned.

 

 

 

 

 

Has any server ever tried that though? Just not holding any objectives and rolling over open field with KDR carrying? I would think not because all the other servers have to do is go inside a structure and wait.

 

The community may not like it, but WvW is built around capturing and holding objectives...all things that grant PPT.  The fights actually are literally secondary to this mode, you don't have to fight anyone to win.  

 

I mean this topic I guess is proof of sorts--BG losing badly in KDR to Mag but Mag is the one staying in T2 because they never leave EBG.  I'm not sure theoretically which method makes a server 'better', but I do know by current WvW standards the one who PPT's more is moving up.  

[displayname.8315]

5 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Has any server ever tried that though? Just not holding any objectives and rolling over open field with KDR carrying? I would think not because all the other servers have to do is go inside a structure and wait.

 

The community may not like it, but WvW is built around capturing and holding objectives...all things that grant PPT.  The fights actually are literally secondary to this mode, you don't have to fight anyone to win.  

 

I mean this topic I guess is proof of sorts--BG losing badly in KDR to Mag but Mag is the one staying in T2 because they never leave EBG.  I'm not sure theoretically which method makes a server 'better', but I do know by current WvW standards the one who PPT's more is moving up.  

Fighting for PPT was the jam even for a year or so after they cancelled seasons.  There were OCX, SEA, and EU guilds on most every server, especially the top 2 or 3 tiers.  Fallen and Warlord Massacre from Deep Penetrations(DPS) were my faves.

 

Now tho PPT is just for insomniacs and the leftover Asians.

[XenesisII.1540]

37 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Has any server ever tried that though? Just not holding any objectives and rolling over open field with KDR carrying? I would think not because all the other servers have to do is go inside a structure and wait.

 

 

How would any server try that? they don't have control over every single individual over every time zone on a server. The only way it works is in reverse when people don't show up to slow down ppting. Closest any server probably has to come to this is probably Mag, but even then, they will have closet ppters around. Also you get way more points for holding stuff than killing players.

 

Quote

 

The community may not like it, but WvW is built around capturing and holding objectives...all things that grant PPT.  The fights actually are literally secondary to this mode, you don't have to fight anyone to win.  

 

 

Sure, you don't actually have to fight anyone to win, you can hide from fights all the time, and sneak capture empty structures all you want, but at the end of the day, it's still primarily a "pvp mode". So no, fights aren't secondary, they both go hand in hand., structures are also there to fight over, not some empty building for you to ktrain over and over again. If you think that's what wvw is about you might as well to go back to pve to ktrain stuff there, it's easier and more rewarding.

 

Typically rvr type games don't use a scoring system to determine winners, gw2 is like the first one to do so, all the other ones mostly revolved around territory capture. Which of course we see was a mistake when you don't have even sides over long periods of time, or shorter time limits, which is one of the main things required for a scoring system, see just about every sport for an example.

 

Quote

I mean this topic I guess is proof of sorts--BG losing badly in KDR to Mag but Mag is the one staying in T2 because they never leave EBG.  I'm not sure theoretically which method makes a server 'better', but I do know by current WvW standards the one who PPT's more is moving up.  

 

Mag NA kinda decided to stay in T2, they were talking about it mid week, most of the commanders were looking for fights over the week, they still defended stuff, but they didn't go hog wild on ppting when they could have (there's more than enough commanders in the mag/et link to push for this if they really wanted). For example last couple nights coms were fighting mostly around set and air keep on desert, not even bothering with the rest of the map, they mostly wanted to provoke fights. 

 

Most of the points probably came from EBG cause they've held 2/3rd's of it for the entire week. Not much of a choice for them there cause most servers don't want to fully fight them there, so they get bored and take sides. Really all it takes to win a match these days is hold one or two extra keeps for most of the time. BG did this strategy in t1 for a long time.

 

Yes obviously ppting wins a match, but what's the point of winning?

Edited August 6, 2021 by XenesisII.1540

[Gotejjeken.1267]

58 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

 

How would any server try that? they don't have control over every single individual over every time zone on a server. The only way it works is in reverse when people don't show up to slow down ppting. Closest any server probably has to come to this is probably Mag, but even then, they will have closet ppters around. Also you get way more points for holding stuff than killing players.

 

 

Sure, you don't actually have to fight anyone to win, you can hide from fights all the time, and sneak capture empty structures all you want, but at the end of the day, it's still primarily a "pvp mode". So no, fights aren't secondary, they both go hand in hand., structures are also there to fight over, not some empty building for you to ktrain over and over again. If you think that's what wvw is about you might as well to go back to pve to ktrain stuff there, it's easier and more rewarding.

 

Typically rvr type games don't use a scoring system to determine winners, gw2 is like the first one to do so, all the other ones mostly revolved around territory capture. Which of course we see was a mistake when you don't have even sides over long periods of time, or shorter time limits, which is one of the main things required for a scoring system, see just about every sport for an example.

 

 

Mag NA kinda decided to stay in T2, they were talking about it mid week, most of the commanders were looking for fights over the week, they still defended stuff, but they didn't go hog wild on ppting when they could have (there's more than enough commanders in the mag/et link to push for this if they really wanted). For example last couple nights coms were fighting mostly around set and air keep on desert, not even bothering with the rest of the map, they mostly wanted to provoke fights. 

 

Most of the points probably came from EBG cause they've held 2/3rd's of it for the entire week. Not much of a choice for them there cause most servers don't want to fully fight them there, so they get bored and take sides. Really all it takes to win a match these days is hold one or two extra keeps for most of the time. BG did this strategy in t1 for a long time.

 

Yes obviously ppting wins a match, but what's the point of winning?

 

I mean buildings wouldn't have walls and siege if they weren't meant to be held by non-fighting means.  If it was about 'fighting for PPT' then you'd pretty much just have literal territories that are fought over...oh, yeah you'd be playing PvP.

 

I also disagree with it being easier to k-train things in PvE, it's about equal if you just follow a blob around in WvW.  I'm sure there's guild coordination somewhere but from all my time all I see is clouding and greater numbers win the day most of the time, none of that has to do with skill and makes KDR metrics useless.

 

Anyway, for mag not wanting to PPT they sure do love to camp the heaviest PPT zone in the game in EBG, and hold SMC at all costs.  If you hold SMC it's easy to get the surrounding structures and then also spawn camp with your greater numbers as it makes it very difficult for other servers to come out and fight.   If you go outside EBG it was just mag backcapping BP all week.

 

There's a reason mag tanks and stays in T2, and it isn't because of skill.  

 

[XenesisII.1540]

19 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I mean buildings wouldn't have walls and siege if they weren't meant to be held by non-fighting means.  If it was about 'fighting for PPT' then you'd pretty much just have literal territories that are fought over...oh, yeah you'd be playing PvP.

 

I also disagree with it being easier to k-train things in PvE, it's about equal if you just follow a blob around in WvW.  I'm sure there's guild coordination somewhere but from all my time all I see is clouding and greater numbers win the day most of the time, none of that has to do with skill and makes KDR metrics useless.

 

Anyway, for mag not wanting to PPT they sure do love to camp the heaviest PPT zone in the game in EBG, and hold SMC at all costs.  If you hold SMC it's easy to get the surrounding structures and then also spawn camp with your greater numbers as it makes it very difficult for other servers to come out and fight.   If you go outside EBG it was just mag backcapping BP all week.

 

There's a reason mag tanks and stays in T2, and it isn't because of skill.  

 

 

😑

You have walls and gates and upgrades to them to hold enemy players off them. Just because you choose not to fight, doesn't mean it's secondary, it's a pvp mode, plain and simple.

 

Pve trains equal to wvw trains? really? so in pve at any moment a zerg of 30 npcs can jump your train and wipe it? let's not pretend pve trains are not 100% safer to run than pvp ones.

 

Haven't figured out smc draws the most fights in the game yet huh? The way to beat mag is to actually bring your zerg on ebg and push them out of smc, that even means use the 3rd team to double team them, but guess what, commanders are too lazy and give up before the match even begins. But then who cares, cause a server like BG can still win a match without having their side for a couple days or smc.

 

Mag backcapping bp all week but bg wins the week? Mag who has the highest kdr stays in t2 cause they ain't ppting like BG, which you say is the way to win and move up.....

[Shroud.2307]

 

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The fights actually are literally secondary to this mode, you don't have to fight anyone to win. 

I don't understand why some people are so fixated on the "right way" to play WvW, and then unironically think they've earned bragging rights for winning despite actively avoiding half of what it means to WvW. 

I'm not going to pretend that the score isn't what decides the winner. But if I were to ask you what the point is, would you tell me it's for the reward? Because we all know there is none.

That must then mean that those of you who care about winning only do so you can claim to be better-
yet will turn around and shame those who're proud of KDR.

Sounds to me like a lot of you are making excuses to feel better about yourselves at the expense of others.

[displayname.8315]

End of the match roundup what's the count boys?

 

https://i.imgur.com/qcBSMH0.jpg

 

57k kills not too shabby.

[Jilora.9524]

44 minutes ago, Shroud.2307 said:

 

I don't understand why some people are so fixated on the "right way" to play WvW, and then unironically think they've earned bragging rights for winning despite actively avoiding half of what it means to WvW. 

I'm not going to pretend that the score isn't what decides the winner. But if I were to ask you what the point is, would you tell me it's for the reward? Because we all know there is none.

That must then mean that those of you who care about winning only do so you can claim to be better-
yet will turn around and shame those who're proud of KDR.

Sounds to me like a lot of you are making excuses to feel better about yourselves at the expense of others.

Seeing how the title was give bg a 2nd link because mag owns bg keep it's obvious who was being shamed. I even doubt they are even mag players cuz it's not like mag doesn't always have 1.6 kdr so prob some dudes from et running their mouths. Everyone knows how mag plays when you are linked w them or vs them, It's defend smc and ebg and farm the yb and nsp and cd that never learn to stop feeding. Play how you want. The fact you can dominate kdr and lose the match is the real skill here. Like how to pull that off consistently is impressive.

[Shroud.2307]

1 hour ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Seeing how the title was give bg a 2nd link because mag owns bg keep it's obvious who was being shamed. I even doubt they are even mag players cuz it's not like mag doesn't always have 1.6 kdr so prob some dudes from et running their mouths. Everyone knows how mag plays when you are linked w them or vs them, It's defend smc and ebg and farm the yb and nsp and cd that never learn to stop feeding. Play how you want. The fact you can dominate kdr and lose the match is the real skill here. Like how to pull that off consistently is impressive.

OP is, unfortunately, from Mag. One of the dozen or so personalities that are best put on your block list and never freed from again.

I'm just trying to understand the thoughts of those who think KDR means nothing.
To say that winning means having the highest score and going up a tier isn't wrong. The goal of WvW is to win, and that's how it's done. But those that are saying things like 

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

There's a reason mag tanks and stays in T2, and it isn't because of skill. 

are confusing to me.
You can PPT unprotected structures and win a match by avoiding combat. Logically speaking, there's no skill involved in that, because there's nothing to engage you. 

You can also win KDR by blobbing a couple people and spawn camping, but if you're only killing a handful of people, the overall kills won't add up. It might be a positive ratio, but a low total kill count (eg. the final score KDR could be 5.0, but total kills could be less than 1,000).
Therefore strictly looking at KDR isn't enough information, which is why you also have to consider the total kills. 
Another example of this would be boon blobs. They won't die a whole lot so their KDR will be high, but their kills will be low.

I'm not trying to attack anyone here, I just see these kinds of statements a lot and it makes me scratch my head. Now seemed like a good time to dissect it a little.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

OP is, unfortunately, from Mag. One of the dozen or so personalities that are best put on your block list and never freed from again.

I'm just trying to understand the thoughts of those who think KDR means nothing.
To say that winning means having the highest score and going up a tier isn't wrong. The goal of WvW is to win, and that's how it's done. But those that are saying things like 

are confusing to me.
You can PPT unprotected structures and win a match by avoiding combat. Logically speaking, there's no skill involved in that, because there's nothing to engage you. 

You can also win KDR by blobbing a couple people and spawn camping, but if you're only killing a handful of people, the overall kills won't add up. It might be a positive ratio, but a low total kill count (eg. the final score KDR could be 5.0, but total kills could be less than 1,000).
Therefore strictly looking at KDR isn't enough information, which is why you also have to consider the total kills. 
Another example of this would be boon blobs. They won't die a whole lot so their KDR will be high, but their kills will be low.

I'm not trying to attack anyone here, I just see these kinds of statements a lot and it makes me scratch my head. Now seemed like a good time to dissect it a little.

 

My statement on mag is based on the overall reputation--the reason I believe mag stays T2 or lower is because they like to troll more than anything.  It's just easier to do that out of T1 where you would face similar numbers.  That's just my opinion though.

 

For the PPT vs KDR aspect, simply I don't think WvW is structured competitively enough to warrant looking at KDR at all.  It's extremely imbalanced because of food, gear, and other consumables that aren't in a structured mode like PvP and it supports uneven fights more often than not because that's how you win. 

 

Any KDR advantages can be boiled down to coverage, uneven numbers, or lack of skill but I believe lack of skill isn't really even a factor; you can probably also chalk it up to some servers having more organized groups and guilds than others.

 

Lack of rewards is a huge factor, yes.  I'm not saying PPT is exactly the right way to do things as taking empty structures is indeed boring--I'm saying it is literally the factor for winning under current design.  Is this outdated? Yeah.  No one is escorting yaks or defending camps anymore because structures auto-upgrade and claim buffs make fights against enemy owned territory too unbalanced most of the time, so roaming as we knew it is long gone.  

 

Anyway, long and short is, if they want KDR to matter at all it's going to need to have more impact and be shown somewhere in-game.  Going to third party sites just to see it should show how highly its regarded by anet.