Torch for new spec will be weird and boring.

[Knuckle Joe.7408]

22 hours ago, Exzen.2976 said:

Thematically, it just feels weird to have a bow, rifle or pistol on an elementalist. The class literally invokes fireballs, lightning and meteor showers,  why does it need puny little bullets/arrows of a bow, rifle or pistol? 😉

I mean it's different,  ele could imbue the projectiles of these weapons with elemental magic to achieve new effects, like, a meteor shower  might be powerful but it can be unreliable, whereas an arrow imbued with fire magic could be precise and hit weak points on the enemy, while a torch is just ... well, a torch, is it going to imbue a little torch with magic and throw it? 😉

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I didn't read all the comments but the ones I did weren't very specific on the actual issue. 

 

Ele off hands in general. 

 

Dagger, although outdated, has mobility, evasion and decent condi as well as power dmg. 

 

Warhorn on Tempest is all about supporting, or mega buffing oneself for 1v1 situations. 

 

Both pale in comparison to Focus though, and the only reason warhorn is traded in the first place is the abundance of group support it brings. 

 

Focus has it all, area projectile denial, invuln, unblockable cc, cleanses etc. 

 

For a new off hand to appear and having to contest with Focus, it would probably need to feel a particular role. But as I said, dagger OH is more or less the hybrid DPS weapon for OH, whether we like it or not. So if anet doesn't want to repeat themselves, I can see Torch either being super special in a role which I have no clue what it will be, or introduce a 2H weapon like longbow for an array of new skills and a focus on 1 to 2 targets from range, when Staff is more of the multi-target ranged weapon. 

 

In any case, OH need a real boost if they need to compete with Focus. 

[Exzen.2976]

9 hours ago, Knuckle Joe.7408 said:

I mean it's different,  ele could imbue the projectiles of these weapons with elemental magic to achieve new effects, like, a meteor shower  might be powerful but it can be unreliable, whereas an arrow imbued with fire magic could be precise and hit weak points on the enemy, while a torch is just ... well, a torch, is it going to imbue a little torch with magic and throw it? 😉

Not for me mate. If I wanna play with a bow or rifle, I'd roll a ranger or an engi. It just doesn't feel right to me - it strays too far from the elementalist/wizard feel. A hammer or GS that hit from distance, like mes GS or Rev hammer would be OK. I'd personally just prefer a good staff rework. And I like how one-sided you are being with this - yes, the only thing you could do is throw the torch... because eles already just bonk people over the head with their focuses right? I personally think it would be cool to have it as a competitor to focus, maybe more offensive utility, as opposed to focus defensive utility. Maybe add effects on to the next attack, Ele finally gets access to stealth with a smoke field, a teleport maybe. There's a LOT they could do with it to make it really interesting. A bow or rifle would likely just pew pew, which for me is totally meh. Each to their own, but if you're after that kinda thing, maybe youre looking at the wrong class. I could be in the minority though. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Exzen.2976

[Josspai.4356]

To be honest, I'm more concerned about the next utilities than the next weapon. I hope we get some nice ranged AoE skills (because tempest shouts and weaver stances are centered around our character, and I really want to be able to feel like, you know... a ranged magical caster).

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

"Pistol or Rifle would be weird on a Ele/Mage/Light armor class"

Some folks here never seen Outlaw Star.

 

Anyway, I'm still expecting Longbow. Its been highly requested for Ele since before HoT release. I admit that Rifle is probably the next best thing though.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Jski.6180]

5 hours ago, Josspai.4356 said:

To be honest, I'm more concerned about the next utilities than the next weapon. I hope we get some nice ranged AoE skills (because tempest shouts and weaver stances are centered around our character, and I really want to be able to feel like, you know... a ranged magical caster).

Most ppl are as they are going to end up using a scepter if they want to play a burst dmg build though freiash air and going to use staff if they are going for wvw builds. Both weapons wich are effectly the guns or bows of ele class.

 

I am hoping for elemental wells for utilities.

[The Fear.3865]

Ele riffle incoming, no doubt 🙈

[lLobo.7960]

I strongly disagree with your take on how the elite specs work for Ele.

 Weaver is not fire or even fire oriented, and tempest is not water...

 

Elite specs for ele work around the attunements.

Tempest focus on staying longer on attunements and creating long-lasting AoE (with overloads or warhorn). Be it for support (shouts, sharing auras, group healing) or dmg (fire camping burn tempest, FA overload tempest) tempest is about to staying longer in attunements to overload them, sometimes camping attunements (healing tempest, fire condi tempest) sometimes by quickly going back to it (FA tempest).

Weaver focus on steadily rotating attunements. Its buffs are short and maintained by constantly swapping attunements, so if you want to use to the fullest, you need to keep weaving those attunements in the right order to make use of buffs and mixed attunement skills.

 

How is the next elite spec fit into this?

Not sure... my take was that it would remove attunements in a way (likely the weapon skills are gone, but the attunement stays there for traits), while letting the Ele use weapon swap.

 

Torch as the elite spec weapon? I hope not.

What will it bring? PBAoE? Dagger and warhorn provide those. 

What ele needs is a single-target fast-paced long-range weapon. Longbow is IMO the best choice, based on how longbow works for other classes. Rifle is nice, but its, in most cases, too slow. Look at rapid fire from ranger LB in comparison to volleys from warrior and or deadeye rifle. 

Pistols can be really fun too, but it feels they would overlap with scepter too much (single target mid range), and I'd rather they make scepter better than just kill it with a better weapon set. If they make scepter more AoE oriented, then pistols could be the single-target mid range weapon...  

[Orack.9756]

Bow + water element. Like the summon weapon but done way better.

I always find this skill amazing but not really useful. I would kill for a bow on ele to be a magical marksman :3

[Josspai.4356]

15 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Most ppl are as they are going to end up using a scepter if they want to play a burst dmg build though freiash air and going to use staff if they are going for wvw builds. Both weapons wich are effectly the guns or bows of ele class.

 

I am hoping for elemental wells for utilities.

 

I'm hoping for elemental wells too! Lots of different combo fields for us to shoot and blast 😃

In fact I was bored last day and did experiment a bit with some ideas:

 

Healing skill - Well of Water (combo field: water): Target area pulses, healing and removing conditions with each pulse. When it expires, the well grants endurance to allies in the area.

Utility skill - Well of Fire (combo field: fire): Target area pulses, burning and blinding foes with each pulse. When it expires, the well deals damage to foes in the area.

Utility skill - Well of Ice (combo field: ice): Target area pulses, chilling foes and inflicting vulnerability with each pulse. When it expires, the well freezes (=stuns) foes in the area.

Utility skill - Well of Air (combo field: lightning): Target area pulses, breaking stun for allies and inflicting weakness with each pulse. When it expires, the well grants superspeed to allies in the area.

Utility skill - Well of Earth (combo field: smoke): Target area pulses, bleeding and crippling foes with each pulse. When it expires, the well grants barrier to allies in the area.

Elite skill - Well of Arcane (combo field: ethereal): Target area pulses, pulling and slowing foes with each pulse. When it expires, the well launches foes in the area.

 

When traited, wells strip boons from foes and grant boons to allies with each pulse:

Water - Vigor, Fire - Might, Ice - Regeneration, Air - Fury, Earth - Protection, Arcane - Quickness

 

These are just random ideas, I don't know if maybe some of them would be lame or OP cause I suck at balancing, but hey, I think wells would be cool, I mean... Ele IS the classical elemental mage/wizard of this game, give us long-lasting ranged AoE utilities!

Edited August 9, 2021 by Josspai.4356

[The Fear.3865]

28 minutes ago, Josspai.4356 said:

Utility skill - Well of Fire (combo field: fire): Target area pulses, burning and blinding foes with each pulse. When it expires, the well deals damage to foes in the area.

Utility skill - Well of Ice (combo field: ice): Target area pulses, chilling foes and inflicting vulnerability with each pulse. When it expires, the well freezes (=stuns) foes in the area.

Utility skill - Well of Air (combo field: lightning): Target area pulses, breaking stun for allies and inflicting weakness with each pulse. When it expires, the well grants superspeed to allies in the area.

Utility skill - Well of Earth (combo field: smoke): Target area pulses, bleeding and crippling foes with each pulse. When it expires, the well grants barrier to allies in the area.

Elite skill - Well of Arcane (combo field: ethereal): Target area pulses, pulling and slowing foes with each pulse. When it expires, the well launches foes in the area.

 

When traited, wells strip boons from foes and grant boons to allies with each pulse:

Water - Vigor, Fire - Might, Ice - Regeneration, Air - Fury, Earth - Protection, Arcane - Quickness

Core ele already has glyph who does basically the same thing but this would be one skill only, and garbage. 

[Gorani.7205]

Like I have written here previously ... the skin of the new espec weapon is up to personal preference and very subjective.

What we should think about is the new utility skills , the new mechanic of the profession and metrics of the new weapon.

1.  Utility skills

On the table for discussion are a) skill types Ele does not already have and that is not used three times or more already (because I think ANet will try to distribute them evenly. That leaves Deception (evasive and defensive skills), Mantras (Ammo skills), Meditation (quick activation), Physical (offensive skills) and Traps (AoE offensive skills).

2. New mechanic

Core Ele kind of was designed to change your attunements quickly (although core is on the sideline these days), Tempest encouraged you to stay in attuments longer to get the overload mechnaic. Weaver favoured quick(er) changing again, because you got access to the dual attack skills, which are the "stronger" skills on your skill bar's options. The new mechanic, up to this point can be anything, from a F5 mechanic (charged either quick quick swapping or camping in attunements), to in combat weapon swapping or a "super summon" skill, that could act as some kind of "extra elite" skill.

3. Weapon metrics

Check out, what I have written down further up this thread. I think most of the Ele players want a better long ranged option.

[solemn.9608]

If it's not greatsword, longbow or rifle I'm going to have a fit.

Stop this blasphemy about torch immediately.

[Jski.6180]

6 hours ago, The Fear.3865 said:

Core ele already has glyph who does basically the same thing but this would be one skill only, and garbage. 

They are not the same thing as glyph of storms is the only thing kind of close to wells and non of the other glyph are nothing like it. The glyph set is more of an pet set of skills. As well as being much longer cast times and not even fields something that is very much a well effect.

@Josspai.4356

I love the ideals!

 

[SkyCake.4216]

I'm kind of on the "anything other than a 2h weapon will be disappointing" train. Choo choo. 

[Infusion.7149]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:16 AM, solemn.9608 said:

If it's not greatsword, longbow or rifle I'm going to have a fit.

Stop this blasphemy about torch immediately.

More likely to be shortbow than longbow I think. I also think we're more likely to see greatsword on thief or possibly revenant (if they don't get double daggers , mainhand axe, or some power weapon) which are lesser played classes.

Longbow is meta on condi warrior and power soulbeast whereas only condi renegade really uses shortbow in PVE. Rangers that are weapon camping also use shortbow but that is more niche.

 

 

[Glaciate.3901]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:33 AM, Josspai.4356 said:

 

I'm hoping for elemental wells too! Lots of different combo fields for us to shoot and blast 😃

In fact I was bored last day and did experiment a bit with some ideas:

 

Healing skill - Well of Water (combo field: water): Target area pulses, healing and removing conditions with each pulse. When it expires, the well grants endurance to allies in the area.

Utility skill - Well of Fire (combo field: fire): Target area pulses, burning and blinding foes with each pulse. When it expires, the well deals damage to foes in the area.

Utility skill - Well of Ice (combo field: ice): Target area pulses, chilling foes and inflicting vulnerability with each pulse. When it expires, the well freezes (=stuns) foes in the area.

Utility skill - Well of Air (combo field: lightning): Target area pulses, breaking stun for allies and inflicting weakness with each pulse. When it expires, the well grants superspeed to allies in the area.

Utility skill - Well of Earth (combo field: smoke): Target area pulses, bleeding and crippling foes with each pulse. When it expires, the well grants barrier to allies in the area.

Elite skill - Well of Arcane (combo field: ethereal): Target area pulses, pulling and slowing foes with each pulse. When it expires, the well launches foes in the area.

 

When traited, wells strip boons from foes and grant boons to allies with each pulse:

Water - Vigor, Fire - Might, Ice - Regeneration, Air - Fury, Earth - Protection, Arcane - Quickness

 

These are just random ideas, I don't know if maybe some of them would be lame or OP cause I suck at balancing, but hey, I think wells would be cool, I mean... Ele IS the classical elemental mage/wizard of this game, give us long-lasting ranged AoE utilities!

+1 I like this

[Knuckle Joe.7408]

On 8/8/2021 at 4:12 AM, Exzen.2976 said:

Not for me mate. If I wanna play with a bow or rifle, I'd roll a ranger or an engi. It just doesn't feel right to me - it strays too far from the elementalist/wizard feel. A hammer or GS that hit from distance, like mes GS or Rev hammer would be OK. I'd personally just prefer a good staff rework. And I like how one-sided you are being with this - yes, the only thing you could do is throw the torch... because eles already just bonk people over the head with their focuses right? I personally think it would be cool to have it as a competitor to focus, maybe more offensive utility, as opposed to focus defensive utility. Maybe add effects on to the next attack, Ele finally gets access to stealth with a smoke field, a teleport maybe. There's a LOT they could do with it to make it really interesting. A bow or rifle would likely just pew pew, which for me is totally meh. Each to their own, but if you're after that kinda thing, maybe youre looking at the wrong class. I could be in the minority though. 

how am I being one-sided lol. You claim a rifle/longbow strays too much from the wizard feel, yet we have weaver that is a melee fighter with a sword, that doesn't "stray away from the wizard feel" for you, but a longbow does? I mean, a longbow is long range so that suits the class more. Kind of like an arcane archer. Come on, tell me this wouldn't be bonkers for an ele. Explosive arrows, burning arrows, freezing arrows, stunning arrows, so many possibilities with a longbow.

Elementalist in GW2 has never had a strictly "wizard" feel in the game, we are more akin to a battle mage, like sienna from vermintide. If you want a strict wizard feel, with long beards, pointy hats and big robes, well, tough luck.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Knuckle Joe.7408

[WindBlade.8749]

On 8/8/2021 at 1:12 PM, Exzen.2976 said:

Not for me mate. If I wanna play with a bow or rifle, I'd roll a ranger or an engi. It just doesn't feel right to me - it strays too far from the elementalist/wizard feel. A hammer or GS that hit from distance, like mes GS or Rev hammer would be OK. I'd personally just prefer a good staff rework. And I like how one-sided you are being with this - yes, the only thing you could do is throw the torch... because eles already just bonk people over the head with their focuses right? I personally think it would be cool to have it as a competitor to focus, maybe more offensive utility, as opposed to focus defensive utility. Maybe add effects on to the next attack, Ele finally gets access to stealth with a smoke field, a teleport maybe. There's a LOT they could do with it to make it really interesting. A bow or rifle would likely just pew pew, which for me is totally meh. Each to their own, but if you're after that kinda thing, maybe youre looking at the wrong class. I could be in the minority though. 

Time have changed, mages are far away to be long range caster that do nothing else nowdays.

We had ton of variations that exit.

From battle mage spellsword to gunslinger mage or exotic things etc.... we have to on different mage that do kind of everthing with their own theme just look at tempest, it's already not a old mage school anymore. Even more weaver which is battle spell sword mage, it's didn't exist in the fiction in old school but now it's old enough to be considered as a classic outside of gw2 and there is ton of other mage type that exit like that.

 

Specially on gw2 where the point of e-specs is to have a new way to play the game, litteraly the wrong game if you want your class to keep the core way of playing for their specs.

[Exzen.2976]

4 hours ago, Knuckle Joe.7408 said:

how am I being one-sided lol. You claim a rifle/longbow strays too much from the wizard feel, yet we have weaver that is a melee fighter with a sword, that doesn't "stray away from the wizard feel" for you, but a longbow does? I mean, a longbow is long range so that suits the class more. Kind of like an arcane archer. Come on, tell me this wouldn't be bonkers for an ele. Explosive arrows, burning arrows, freezing arrows, stunning arrows, so many possibilities with a longbow.

Elementalist in GW2 has never had a strictly "wizard" feel in the game, we are more akin to a battle mage, like sienna from vermintide. If you want a strict wizard feel, with long beards, pointy hats and big robes, well, tough luck.

The one-sidedness came from the throwing the torch comment you made, which clearly was one sided and I explained by giving you examples. I have stated in my post that my issues with rifle are a preference thing. It's not for me and I would personally prefer torch over rifle or bow. That's all, just a preference. 

 

I didn't mean it to the rest. I have re read my post and it comes across as more abrasive than intended. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Exzen.2976

[Exzen.2976]

31 minutes ago, WindBlade.8749 said:

Time have changed, mages are far away to be long range caster that do nothing else nowdays.

We had ton of variations that exit.

From battle mage spellsword to gunslinger mage or exotic things etc.... we have to on different mage that do kind of everthing with their own theme just look at tempest, it's already not a old mage school anymore. Even more weaver which is battle spell sword mage, it's didn't exist in the fiction in old school but now it's old enough to be considered as a classic outside of gw2 and there is ton of other mage type that exit like that.

 

Specially on gw2 where the point of e-specs is to have a new way to play the game, litteraly the wrong game if you want your class to keep the core way of playing for their specs.

I get your points, I guess it's just a personal preference, I dislike sword Weaver for the same reason.

 

Can't please everyone. I would probably just be in the minority of ppl not remotely interested in a rifle/bow spec, which is a shame since I love playing ele. It may still work well with other weapons, but if not there are other classes/specs to play. 

 

I'm mainly playing devil's advocate, since people have stated torch would be weird and boring but I think it could be quite cool. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Exzen.2976

[nopoet.2960]

That icon might represent a new element altogether and not torch.  Maybe the new class mechanic is access to 5 elements instead of just 4.

[Arheundel.6451]

2 hours ago, WindBlade.8749 said:

Time have changed, mages are far away to be long range caster that do nothing else nowdays.

We had ton of variations that exit.

From battle mage spellsword to gunslinger mage or exotic things etc.... we have to on different mage that do kind of everthing with their own theme just look at tempest, it's already not a old mage school anymore. Even more weaver which is battle spell sword mage, it's didn't exist in the fiction in old school but now it's old enough to be considered as a classic outside of gw2 and there is ton of other mage type that exit like that.

 

Specially on gw2 where the point of e-specs is to have a new way to play the game, litteraly the wrong game if you want your class to keep the core way of playing for their specs.

Ele has been basically the same since launch...they slapped us with this d/d set and it seems we're fated to live and die on melee front ..all the while hahving no blocks, stealth ect etc....just stack toughness and healing power with a sprinkle of evades there and there. There is very little on ele to justify being at melee...

[Eddbopkins.2630]

The more talk there is on the internets about ele, the more i feel it will be rifle. I first thought torch cuz thats thematically a weapon a elementalist can use. Endless fire on a stick seem useable by a magician to me. Aftet seeing the harbinger and the willbender i feel a theme of a class is just a fake concept and anything can go into a new spec even the rediculous. So i think ele new spec/ weapon will be rifle, and use magic bullets in some weird way. However that is so much more work to come up with 20 different skills 5 per attunment vs torch off hand. But well see what the devs have in store for my baby.

[WindBlade.8749]

16 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

The more talk there is on the internets about ele, the more i feel it will be rifle. I first thought torch cuz thats thematically a weapon a elementalist can use. Endless fire on a stick seem useable by a magician to me. Aftet seeing the harbinger and the willbender i feel a theme of a class is just a fake concept and anything can go into a new spec even the rediculous. So i think ele new spec/ weapon will be rifle, and use magic bullets in some weird way. However that is so much more work to come up with 20 different skills 5 per attunment vs torch off hand. But well see what the devs have in store for my baby.

well weaver come up with way more than 20 skill in the end, a way lot kitten ton of more.