The Virtuoso: Traits Discussion

[Tseison.4659]

Okay....so for those who haven't had a chance to watch the stream, I provided a link to it and there should be more information on the traits in detail on the Guild Wars 2 wiki. To begin, what are some of you guys thoughts on the traits so far? In my opinion, there are a few that I believe need to be changed and a few that have me questioning why they're even in there.

 

Traits that I like

• Deadly Blades (inflicts vulnerability on critical hits)
• Quiet Intensity, however, I would've rather instead of gaining ferocity based on vitality, to gain ferocity based on precision or power.
• Mental Focus⭐
• Bladeturn Refrain (grants aegis)⭐
• Duelist's Reversal⭐
• Psychic Riposte⭐
• Infinite Forge⭐

 

Traits that are "okay"

• Phantasmal Blades⭐

 

Traits that I don't like

• Jagged Mind, sorry but this trait is a reflection of Sharper Images and they should make Sharper Images affect Blade attacks as well.
• Bloodsong, again, Virtuoso doesn't strike me as a condition focused elite spec.
• Sharpening Sorrow, again, not enough conditions with this new elite spec so the increased expertise is nice but for a power build not many of us will invest into it just to have a higher vulnerability duration.

 

Overall, the presentation for us seemed lacking in comparison to the Harbinger and Willbender. Yes it probably seemed rush because they skimmed over some skills and then showed us the traits, but there's not many traits that made me more excited to play the Virtuoso or even think they're getting anything new aside from a cloneless build. Other than that, I'll have to test everything myself in the BETA, but so far the traits I'd be taking are marked as a ⭐ and are traits I'd be using with the Domination and Dueling/Chaos treeline(s).

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Tseison.4659

[Roda.7468]

Do we have screencaps?  I didn't memorize the specifics. :x

[Levetty.1279]

 I laughed when he started talking about the Grandmaster traits being very powerful and saying they might need to change them, the only one that is decent is the blades on conditions. Deceptive evasion with extra requirements and an icd and a trait that will give you 3 blades if you don't bother to summon any after 9 seconds in a fight are the exact opposite of powerful.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Traits are lackluster af. The major adept and major master on the first row are kind of cool, everything else is meh. 
And if you compare it with the other 2 elite specs traits it's just sad.

[Alpha.1308]

35 minutes ago, Tseison.4659 said:

what are some of you guys thoughts on the traits so far

sad and uninspired, just like the rest of the balance in this class

amazingly well thought out thematically, but this class gets absolutely trashed on when it comes to ideas on balance by the dev team 

they're seemingly too afraid of how strong NPC mechanics can end up being, yet they refuse to fix it so they'd have an easier time working around them, because at this point it's too much effort to overhaul the whole thing 

 

 

23 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

I laughed when he started talking about the Grandmaster traits being very powerful

right? holy butts

 

23 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

9 seconds in a fight

imagine not creating 3 blades in 9 seconds to begin with on the deceptive-evasion-with-more-steps (which i actually think is "alright" tbf, but that's fine, after 10 years of absolutely mediocre traitlines on this class, you'd think the "grandmasters" would actually be "grandmasters", even the freaking necro gets yet again more ferocity, and not even on a grandmaster i don't think, if i remember correctly, like it's just pathetic at this point) 

 

also imagine literally hurting yourself and your team because DODGE ROLLING just made you smack your allies or yourself from reflect ahahahahaha

what the absolute garbage is this projectile thing with this class, they better not be reflectable/destructable, which i'm assuming they are, because why not have more liabilities on the class already bound to NPCs

Edited August 13, 2021 by Alpha.1308

[Curunen.8729]

Same boat, few interesting/inspired options. Effective, maybe - will see how it goes, but nothing that stands out as exciting.

 

I suppose when you have Grandmaster supposed gameplay defining traits such as Elusive Mind that... clear 2 condis... it's not too surprising.

 

I'm probably going to go power, top line with aegis, quickness and the top blade generation trait, and domination/x.

 

The middle GM trait should be changed to something completely different.

 

Tbh thanks to legendary armory I'm more excited to try out harbinger and whatever the new ele spec is. For mesmer I can't see myself playing virtuoso more than an occasional novelty, but won't change maining mirage from a thematic and gameplay perspective.

[AXLIB.8425]

With the virtuoso trait and the new balance patch, i really want to delete my mesmer right now 

[Tseison.4659]

4 minutes ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

With the virtuoso trait and the new balance patch, i really want to delete my mesmer right now 

My thoughts exactly...I already was pissed when they gave Harbinger our old Signet of Inspiration boon share effect...

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Seems I got one of the traits right, on some other thread - phantasmal blade, seems bad tho.

Tbf, mirage was also patheticly bad on beta, so there's hope.

[AXLIB.8425]

Just now, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Seems I got one of the traits right, on some other thread - phantasmal blade, seems bad tho.

Tbf, mirage was also patheticly bad on beta, so there's hope.

there certainly isn't much hope when you take a glance at the other two spec got revealed which are also in beta

[Tseison.4659]

Just now, AXLIB.8425 said:

there certainly isn't much hope when you take a glance at the other two spec got revealed which are also in beta

AND we still  have yet to see the other elite specs the other professions are getting which I can already predict will be ten times better than what we're getting...

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Just now, AXLIB.8425 said:

there certainly isn't much hope when you take a glance at the other two spec got revealed which are also in beta

Willbender will get "nerfed" that's for sure.
Harbinger has some stuff that will get hammered too.

Us...can only get better, there's nothing to nerf.

[AXLIB.8425]

2 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Us...can only get better, there's nothing to nerf.

Virtuoso is a mesmer class, of course there is a reason to nerf, much better than the other two as well, especially when there are on dodge effect with trait and we all know how mirage went

[Levetty.1279]

7 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Willbender will get "nerfed" that's for sure.
Harbinger has some stuff that will get hammered too.

Us...can only get better, there's nothing to nerf.

The problem is when you compare Virtuoso to the other specs new tools and compare how excited he was talking about the new traits vs how he was already talking about nerfing the mediocre Virtuoso  traits it becomes pretty obvious the major difference in design philosophies.

 

Willbender and Harbinger: Make a fun new elite and try and balance around that

Virtuoso: Remove everything that people complained about in PvP and then throw a damage modifier on there so maybe they can do well in PvE.

[Zoser.7245]

My fear of a Domination 2.0 with a mix of Dueling 2.0 trait line has become real.  Well,  as it was already mentioned, this is a specialization is only for some meme moments against noobs,  easy PvE events and social activities with nice outfits.  That is all. The worst is think that it could be designed like this on purpose to avoid complains against devs due to the clones and mesmer mechanic. The Virtuoso is your solution, easily killable, easy to chase with no mobility and easy to nerf its damage if necessary and some complains come in that sense. Perfect. Perfecto!!!!

 

The perfect specialization for devs, mods and players of other professions and specializations. One less problem, and something ignorable out there.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Zoser.7245

[Xaylin.1860]

As I mentioned in the other thread, the traits are extremly disappointing. It is mostly a Mesmer-centered copy of Duelling with some Domination sprinkled in. I'm sure I'll have fun playing Virtuoso. But the traits are mostly throwaways which leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth. It is also very predictable what pVirtuosos and cVirtuosos will go for. Additionally, I was hoping for some more CC-gameplay which traits support not at all. Pitty.

[Levetty.1279]

26 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Willbender will get "nerfed" that's for sure.
Harbinger has some stuff that will get hammered too.

Us...can only get better, there's nothing to nerf.

Elite skill has already been nerfed btw. Compare damage from the initial reveal to when he mouses over it in the trait reveal.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Levetty.1279

[Roda.7468]

Honestly looking back at the vod, I really appreciate the INTENT with the design of the traits (offering 3 different gameplay roles with the 3 different tracks), but some just kinda lack any oomf factor, especially in a vacuum, some feel uninspired (looking at you, trait that forces us to play close range as a long range spec in a game that already has a massive blind spot to high-tier ranged gameplay), and some just look bad (afk/downtime grandmaster?? A grandmaster trait that has literally zero interaction? What???)

 

I'll see when I can get my hands on it, hopefully it can get some interesting polish during the wait for the expac.

[Tseison.4659]

The more I rewatch the video on the traits, I truly think they should've just made the Virtuoso into a Minstrel x Support Elite Spec.

[Roda.7468]

4 minutes ago, Tseison.4659 said:

The more I rewatch the video on the traits, I truly think they should've just made the Virtuoso into a Minstrel x Support Elite Spec.

Honestly, with how much mesmer specs change.  I say give it a year and a half from launch.  It might go there, dip out, come back again, turn into something completely different, etc.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

5 minutes ago, Tseison.4659 said:

The more I rewatch the video on the traits, I truly think they should've just made the Virtuoso into a Minstrel x Support Elite Spec.

I absolutely hate musical classes but comparing to what I saw, I would also had prefer that.

[AXLIB.8425]

28 minutes ago, Tseison.4659 said:

The more I rewatch the video on the traits, I truly think they should've just made the Virtuoso into a Minstrel x Support Elite Spec.

lol that what i wanted anyway, since a proper support (not offensive hybrid) is something mesmer actually lacked, not another power dps, and certainly not a generic dps with no interesting skill, mechanic, and weapon, while having a trait line that are very similar to existing core traits or just useless trait.

 

At least with a support spec we are more likely to get more than 3 weapon skills for once.

Edited August 13, 2021 by AXLIB.8425

[Levetty.1279]

41 minutes ago, Tseison.4659 said:

The more I rewatch the video on the traits, I truly think they should've just made the Virtuoso into a Minstrel x Support Elite Spec.

Or they could just stop nerfing the support spec we already have.

[Zoser.7245]

32 minutes ago, Roda.7468 said:

Honestly, with how much mesmer specs change.  I say give it a year and a half from launch.  It might go there, dip out, come back again, turn into something completely different, etc.

Well... Watching the Chronomarncer and its history, the first step will be to destroy it completely and make it even more useless. And then convert it in a maid for other professions/specializations or maybe a mediocre healer. All it's possible. Yes. 🙄

[Xaylin.1860]

49 minutes ago, Roda.7468 said:

Honestly looking back at the vod, I really appreciate the INTENT with the design of the traits (offering 3 different gameplay roles with the 3 different tracks), but some just kinda lack any oomf factor, especially in a vacuum, some feel uninspired (looking at you, trait that forces us to play close range as a long range spec in a game that already has a massive blind spot to high-tier ranged gameplay), and some just look bad (afk/downtime grandmaster?? A grandmaster trait that has literally zero interaction? What???)

 

I'll see when I can get my hands on it, hopefully it can get some interesting polish during the wait for the expac.

Of course, the intent is good. But what's the result? The playstyles all replicate existing playstyles. And while we don't know yet, all the Blade traits either mean that Blades won't interact with Illusion traits or will have a double-interaction. Which is pretty bad either way.

 

Now, to me, the worst is the Bleeding. Sharper Images aside, what is to become of Mirage? It does have one gimmicky feature that doesn't really interact with the base class. But what will the role of Mirage become when Virtuoso pushes it out of condition play?

 

But why not go through them.

 

Minors

• Deadly Blades - Totally unnecessary. You will want Vulnerability for Fragility. If you run Domination, you will not want even more Vulnerability. For Virtuoso without Domination, there is no reason to have Vulnerability. Unless you count having a cover condition for Bleeding.
• Quiet Intensity - One of the few useful traits and way more self-sufficient than Danger Time.

 

Majors

 

Adept - The junction traits

• Bladeturn Refrain - Caters Duelists Reversal so you don't need Scepter or OH Sword. Mostly filler.
• Mental Focus - The modifier is more versatile than Egotism and Vicious Expression. Still a filler.
• Jagges Mind - Mesmer-Sharper Images. I mean... really? Isn't it bad enough that DD and SI have overlap?

 

Master - The Fury possy

The Fury possy was created so Virtuoso doesn't have to pick Duelling to cater Quiet Intensity.

 

• Duelists Reversal - Nice trait. Indefinitely better than Furious Interruption. Probably will be nerfed.
• Phantasmal Blade - Damage proc. Fury added so you don't have to rely on blocks for Fury.
• Sharpening Sorrow - Fury for condi builds. Expertise is nice, Fury is rather short duration.

 

Grandmaster - Not so Virtuoso afterall

• Riposting Blade - Literally Deceptive Evasion with Damage proc.
• Infinite Forge - Filler. Basically passive Signet of Illusions.
• Bloodsong - Deadly Ambush/Heartpiercer clone.

 

Overall, the traits aren't bad and the traitline is quite self-sufficient in itself. However, only two traits have 'new' effects for Mesmers: Quiet Intensity and Bloodsong. While not a 100% match, you could probably slap Virtuoso (Bladesongs and Dagger and the Utilities) on Duelling and it would play about the same. It is so incredibly uninspired and lazy. And it also showed within the presentation.