Grenade Barrage

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

18 minutes ago, displayname.8315 said:

Still on that 17k hp 0 toughness build.

Still making this about my build. 😑

Had I known being on Thief would be such a distraction I might have censored my character in my clips lol.

I don't think it matters what people play.  This Grenade Barrage with EE from stealth stuff is either healthy or unhealthy.  Hint: It's already been nerfed in PvP.

18 minutes ago, displayname.8315 said:

Complaining about being killed too quickly.

Only when it's an untelegraphed one-shot from stealth.

18 minutes ago, displayname.8315 said:

You are both trying your hardest to reduce fights down to a single hit.

If I were doing that, I wouldn't be running SA.

18 minutes ago, displayname.8315 said:

Either play a WvW build or really how can you complain about that.

My build is fine in 90% of encounters.  If I spec Toughness instead of Vitality on an 11K base-HP Thief, I'm going to have an even harder time with condi-spammers, which are far more common than GB clowns.

[Shroud.2307]

35 minutes ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

 It really doesn't matter what profession I was on in this clip.  I didn't get to do anything.

I don't have anything else to add to this other than that was how I felt when seeing the clip.

It has happened to me before as well, being 1 shot from Stealth. I'm a very average player, but I'm at least confident that I have an extremely strong sense of awareness. It isn't easy to sneak up on me (let's pretend that matters, because even if you don't it doesn't mean I'm going to win, lmao), so if this happens, they definitely Stealthed somewhere out of sight like behind a wall or repeatedly stacked it out of rendering distance.

It's never fun when that happens no matter what it is that hits you, because exactly as you've said, you don't get to do anything. Class and build are irrelevant when there's no player on player interaction (although I guess it does matter if you consider 300sec passives, but that's a topic for another thread I think).

 

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

11 minutes ago, Shroud.2307 said:

It has happened to me before as well, being 1 shot from Stealth. I'm a very average player, but I'm at least confident that I have an extremely strong sense of awareness. It isn't easy to sneak up on me (let's pretend that matters, because even if you don't it doesn't mean I'm going to win, lmao), so if this happens, they definitely Stealthed somewhere out of sight like behind a wall or repeatedly stacked it out of rendering distance.

Thanks to the magic of background recording, I believe you can just glimpse him riding in from the east at the 0:12 mark.  I presume he dismounted and popped his stealth shortly after and walked over.  Notice also how frequently I pan my camera, "looking over my shoulder" as it were.  Helps awareness, but makes for lousy movies.  Still wasn't enough, unfortunately.  I'm just glad no one's said "you should have seen it coming" (yet).

11 minutes ago, Shroud.2307 said:

It's never fun when that happens no matter what it is that hits you, because exactly as you've said, you don't get to do anything. Class and build are irrelevant when there's no player on player interaction (although I guess it does matter if you consider 300sec passives, but that's a topic for another thread I think).

Completely agree.

[displayname.8315]

50 minutes ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

Had I known being on Thief would be such a distraction I might have censored my character in my clips lol.

I don't think it matters what people play.

Heavy, medium, and light does make a difference.  If you were hitting a good balance of stats there would be no clip to talk about.  But not being able to take a hit is a risk reward choice.  I wouldn't complain about stealth bombs when playing a build like that.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

36 minutes ago, displayname.8315 said:

Heavy, medium, and light does make a difference.  If you were hitting a good balance of stats there would be no clip to talk about.  But not being able to take a hit is a risk reward choice.  I wouldn't complain about stealth bombs when playing a build like that.

So you think Grenade + Explosive Entrance is fine in its current state?

[GoldenPants.1870]

Just add a specalization modifier, much like weaver has, that nade barrage does less dmg when traited into scrapper or holosmith.

[Skada.1362]

8 hours ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

"Whataboutism" never won any argument, and in this case, it isn't even particularly on point.  DP DrD may be basic, but it's not easy to play effectively--definitely not as easy as "stealth, push 3 buttons, creep up (go ahead, you have 10 seconds, so take your sweet time), and hit the nuke button"--which is an AOE so can actually nuke multiple targets.  Not to mention all of that is done while in stealth, so the only tell is being nuked from thin air.

So if you want to call pressing 4 buttons or so within the comfort of 10 seconds stealth that is 100% guaranteed to instagib most targets, "skill", then you're not going to find much agreement from me, or anyone serious for that matter.

Newsflash: DrD hasn't been able to reliably instagib anything forever now, and if it does, it certainly isn't going to hang around and duel a second player down.  Mesmer burst also has more tell before the bomb drops.  Stop trying to defend the indefensible.  You lose all credit.

Haha thief COPIUM! d/p daredevil has been the #1 oppressor to WVW roaming since 2015. You'd know this if you actually played the game. Things just became even more obnoxious with the insane changes to shadow arts, making most d/p thieves swap from kitten to SA. There's a reason there are 100 thieves for every engineer in WVW. I just find it funny you would moan about other classes and abilities when you play the #1 cheesiest, and easy (yes its EASY) and lame builds for roaming out there. SA d/p daredevil is by far, BY FAR, the most forgiving yet effective roaming build you can play, in the entire game, in the existance of gw2. Thief COPIUM omegalol xD

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

16 minutes ago, Skada.1362 said:

Haha thief COPIUM! d/p daredevil has been the #1 oppressor to WVW roaming since 2015. You'd know this if you actually played the game. Things just became even more obnoxious with the insane changes to shadow arts, making most d/p thieves swap from kitten to SA. There's a reason there are 100 thieves for every engineer in WVW. I just find it funny you would moan about other classes and abilities when you play the #1 cheesiest, and easy (yes its EASY) and lame builds for roaming out there. SA d/p daredevil is by far, BY FAR, the most forgiving yet effective roaming build you can play, in the entire game, in the existance of gw2. Thief COPIUM omegalol xD

Haha it's 2021, not 2015. And this thread is about Grenade Barrage, not Thief. Sorry if you were beat up by thieves so much that seeing a thief player fall victim to something objectively broken triggers you. omegalol xD

Try an exercise: Pretend for a moment that the instagib'd player in the clip was on anything besides thief.  Would that change whether what happened is busted or healthy?  If you can't answer this straightforwardly, I guess your trauma is too severe. 😉

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

7 minutes ago, Skada.1362 said:

Haha thief COPIUM! d/p daredevil has been the #1 oppressor to WVW roaming since 2015. You'd know this if you actually played the game. Things just became even more obnoxious with the insane changes to shadow arts, making most d/p thieves swap from kitten to SA. There's a reason there are 100 thieves for every engineer in WVW. I just find it funny you would moan about other classes and abilities when you play the #1 cheesiest, and easy (yes its EASY) and lame builds for roaming out there. SA d/p daredevil is by far, BY FAR, the most forgiving yet effective roaming build you can play, in the entire game, in the existance of gw2. Thief COPIUM omegalol xD

Man, it's hard to see a problem within a class if it sits permanently in stealth which you don't even see it on your screen, so that would explain it.
Beside teefs being pepegas in WvW, I do believe that Grenade Barrage does need a nerf bat or rather all Grenades and even Mortar, since you can just spam it for quite high damage. Combine it with spamming it behind you while running away or even stealth and it's quite kitten.
I believe that there's a lot of broken stuff on all classes, but to actually see that you must meet some cheesers here and there and not just do some picky fights against something that you 300% counter for ez bagz.
Like there are builds on Tempest for CC spam that are aids to fight against, there are some core necro bunkers that spits condies faster than your UI can show, there are Teefs that can make you blind for years or just nuke you for 15k+ Vaults 24/7, there are Soulbeasts that are kitten to fight if you don't have any boon rips or condi cleanses(even if you have, it's still aids), there are Mirage builds that you can't touch because of blinds and invulns, etc. etc.

[Skada.1362]

5 minutes ago, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

Haha it's 2021, not 2015. And this thread is about Grenade Barrage, not Thief. Sorry if you were beat up by thieves so much that seeing a thief player fall victim to something objectively broken triggers you. omegalol xD

Try an exercise: Pretend for a moment that the instagib'd player in the clip was on anything besides thief.  Would that change whether what happened is busted or healthy?  If you can't answer this straightforwardly, I guess your trauma is too severe. 😉

I just cant help myself whenever I see a WVW thief complaining about anything. Its like a billionaire complaining he has to spend 5$, its sad yet absolutely hilarious. Whats even more funny is how you dont understand whats going on, all you see is Grenade Barrage in your log as you cry in spawn. Pre stacking 20 + might is where the problem lies my man. 

 

Besides whats the bigger issue for the WVW "roaming scene"? 100s of shadow arts d/p thieves with inflated egos every single match up, or that 1-2 engineers stealth bombing people? Hmmz

Edited October 16, 2021 by Skada.1362

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

4 minutes ago, Skada.1362 said:

I just cant help myself whenever I see a WVW thief complaining about anything. Its like a billionaire complaining he has to spend 5$, its sad yet absolutely hilarious. Whats even more funny is how you dont understand whats going on, all you see is Grenade Barrage in your log as you cry in spawn. Pre stacking 20 + might is where the problem lies my man.

Then I'm sorry you are so blinded by hate you can't see the forest for the trees.  I know how the burst works.  It's not rocket science and it isn't hard.  That you're unironically defending it while throwing lots of unsubstantiated accusations at someone you don't know speaks a lot about your own insecurity.

EDIT: By the way, I'm not the one reacting to your posts.  Someone else is doing that insanely quick. 😆

Edited October 16, 2021 by Twilight Tempest.7584

[Shroud.2307]

10 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Man, it's hard to see a problem within a class if it sits permanently in stealth which you don't even see it on your screen, so that would explain it.
Beside teefs being pepegas in WvW, I do believe that Grenade Barrage does need a nerf bat or rather all Grenades and even Mortar, since you can just spam it for quite high damage. Combine it with spamming it behind you while running away or even stealth and it's quite kitten.
I believe that there's a lot of broken stuff on all classes, but to actually see that you must meet some cheesers here and there and not just do some picky fights against something that you 300% counter for ez bagz.
Like there are builds on Tempest for CC spam that are aids to fight against, there are some core necro bunkers that spits condies faster than your UI can show, there are Teefs that can make you blind for years or just nuke you for 15k+ Vaults 24/7, there are Soulbeasts that are kitten to fight if you don't have any boon rips or condi cleanses(even if you have, it's still aids), there are Mirage builds that you can't touch because of blinds and invulns, etc. etc.

I've thought for quite some time now that Mortar Kit should have a minimum range. Like you can't be inside the AOE when you fire it, so you can still fire it very close to you but can't just spam it at your feet.
Only issue I have with that idea is that the projectiles are slow af and most times you won't hit anything at range, which is why people spam it at their feet in the first place.

I also think Grenades should be more utility focused to give them more of an identity than dameg happenz. Like heavily reduce power coeff on auto attacks and Shrapnel, and instead make Flash Grenade and Freeze Grenade the hard hitters. Could also add some kind of additional effect or synergy to make the autos combo in to the other skills, but idk what that might be.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Shroud.2307

[Skada.1362]

Just now, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

Then I'm sorry you are so blinded by hate you can't see the forest for the trees.  I know how the burst works.  It's not rocket science and it isn't hard.  That you're unironically defending it while throwing lots of unsubstantiated accusations at someone you don't know speaks a lot about your own insecurity.

Im not defending anything, I explained how it worked and where the actual problem lies. If you throw a Grenade Barrage without any other action before hand, it does rather low damage. If you pop your elixirs and pre stack 20 + stacks of might, nades go owie wowie. Again, the only reason im in this thread is because you, as a shadow arts d/p daredevil used words like "braindead and degenerate" to describe another class. Thats freaking comedy gold. xD I've had my fun, ill leave you to moan further with the others, take care m8!

[Shroud.2307]

6 minutes ago, Skada.1362 said:

 If you throw a Grenade Barrage without any other action before hand, it does rather low damage.

No, lol.

I play zerk core Engi more than I play anything else these days. Magnet -> Barrage (+EE and Hydro sigil) is like 16 - 18k most times. Although I'm not likely to hit anyone with that combo in a 1 v 1, it's like shooting fish in a barrel in small scale fights. I basically one shot people off cooldown, and I don't prestack any kind of Might. 

My record Barrage with said build is 21k btw.
EDIT:
I should probably be clear that when I say 21k I mean the combined damage of Barrage, EE, and Hydro sigil. And I specifically use Hydro to proc EE at point blank swap.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Shroud.2307

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

FIFY:

10 minutes ago, Skada.1362 said:

Im not defending anything, I explained how it worked and where the actual problem lies. If you throw a Grenade Barrage without any other action before hand, it does rather low damage. If you pop your elixirs and pre stack 20 + stacks of might, nades go owie wowie. Again, the only reason im in this thread is because you, as a shadow arts d/p daredevil used words like "braindead and degenerate" to describe another class. teefs make me reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Considering I literally didn't get to do anything before being downed, it literally does not matter what class/build I was on, now does it?  You could mentally replace my character with whatever suits your fancy and it would change nothing about the actual point of this thread.

16 minutes ago, Skada.1362 said:

I've had my fun, ill leave you to moan further with the others, take care m8!

You too! You might want to see someone about that teef PTSD!

[Skada.1362]

1 hour ago, Shroud.2307 said:

No, lol.

Yes, lol. Run scrapper or holo with alchemy/explo. Use a sensible gear setup like.. not FULL zerk with scholar runes, then walk up to a random guy in wvw and press only grenade barrage and tell me it does 15k damage. It'll average 6-7k if some of the nades crit.

You could take any class and pick all damage modifier traits available, go full zerk with power infusions, ascended power/fero food, scholar runes, stack might and do 20k bursts easily and it will only prove that STACKING modifiers and might is the real issue this game has. 

Adding EE + 20-25 stacks of might turns good abilities into monster abilities.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Skada.1362

[crewthief.8649]

On 8/29/2021 at 7:32 AM, Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

Blink and you'll miss it:

 

https://streamable.com/6u4xf9

 

My Backstab looks cute next to the Explosive Entrance and Grenade Barrages:

 

https://imgur.com/a/eQMSVrA

 

Considering the burst from stealth deleted two players from nearly full health by applying almost 20K AOE damage in under 0.2 seconds, it must be a very high-risk/high-reward, difficult to execute and land combo, requiring great skill and substantial trait and stat investment.

 

Some things to note:

 

• The burst came from a second Scrapper (Gold Squire) who attacked from stealth, not the Mithril Recruit I was focusing, but the point still stands.
• As a thief, I'm squishy, but not pure glass as far as thieves go: full Ascended Armor, almost all Marauder's stats.
• The Explosive Entrance plus 4 of 6 Grenade Barrages hit me for over 14K.  The remaining two grenades hit during my downstate invulnerability but would have added another ~5-6K.

 

Considering things like the Deadeye - Malicious Oneshot Roamer were nerfed out of existence (something I never touched, having only tried DE for 3 days now), why is this grenade engi stuff happening?

 

It’s incredible to me that single-target backstab does 3k damage, while AoE Grenade Barrage does, what, 13-14k? Honestly, that disparity is indefensible. Even if you’re hitting a full-glass build (with backstab), you’re only gonna get around 8k damage. On what planet is that balanced?

 Honestly, this game is full of nonsense like this. AoEs out-damaging single-target attacks, 1200 range attacks out-damaging melee attacks, etc. Risk versus reward balance philosophy has no place in GW2.

[crewthief.8649]

1 hour ago, Skada.1362 said:

Yes, lol. Run scrapper or holo with alchemy/explo. Use a sensible gear setup like.. not FULL zerk with scholar runes, then walk up to a random guy in wvw and press only grenade barrage and tell me it does 15k damage. It'll average 6-7k if some of the nades crit.

You could take any class and pick all damage modifier traits available, go full zerk with power infusions, ascended power/fero food, scholar runes, stack might and do 20k bursts easily and it will only prove that STACKING modifiers and might is the real issue this game has. 

Adding EE + 20-25 stacks of might turns good abilities into monster abilities.

Always somebody benefiting from the imbalance, more than willing to step up and defend the indefensible. All the while, crying about Thief. 🙄

[Skada.1362]

2 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Always somebody benefiting from the imbalance, more than willing to step up and defend the indefensible. All the while, crying about Thief. 🙄

Learn to read bruh.

[cyberzombie.7348]

6 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

I've thought for quite some time now that Mortar Kit should have a minimum range

In its first iteration it did.

[Xenesis.6389]

7 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

I've thought for quite some time now that Mortar Kit should have a minimum range.

 

The parapet of the wall is the range limit.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 hours ago, displayname.8315 said:

Heavy, medium, and light does make a difference.  If you were hitting a good balance of stats there would be no clip to talk about.  But not being able to take a hit is a risk reward choice.  I wouldn't complain about stealth bombs when playing a build like that.

That combo fully  buffed can instagib everything but a full  minstrel/Sentinel warrior. I've been instagibbed by it on my  warrior and I don't run full glass. He could have had more toughness on that thief and still gotten instagibbed by it.

[displayname.8315]

5 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

It’s incredible to me that single-target backstab does 3k damage, while AoE Grenade Barrage does, what, 13-14k?

I use staff bounds with guaranteed crit and it's 10k almost every time with plenty of toughness and also more vitality than him.

 

Using daredevil to it's full potential makes use of the nearly unending dodge rolls and also staff evades.  Pair it with the runeset named for and created for daredevil.

 

True one shot boys usually play core thief.

[God.2708]

There's little reason to throw around random 'you were just to glassy' claims. The damage calculations are well known.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlFw0YOML2JO6TZtOA-zVIYRUwfGNqA6VCoxPiYU+1enkEqhCzAA-w

Damage is Weapon Strength * Power * Power Mod / Armor

Now, I don't know if toolbelt skills use utility or weapon weapon strength, but we'll use utility weapon strength (690.5), and a clean 3.5k power which is a bit low for the most of these builds.

7,250,250 damage before armor. 3.6k to 2k armor, 2.4k to 3k armor. Throw in the damage modifiers, 5 stacks of vuln for 5%, 10%, 10%, and 220%.

~10,000 damage vs 2k armor, ~6700 vs 3k armor. That's honestly not to crazy, but still remarkably strong for something that really doesn't have a lot of damage stacking behind it.

The real outlier to me is explosive entrance. I have no idea why this ability has a 1.25 power mod and can crit, on a passive trait. Anet went through and nerfed basically every passive trait in the game to not be able to crit. We get a post about shattered aegis like every other week, but engineer is running around with a trait that hits as hard as most weapons big hit skills? Make it not crit like every other trait in the game  had done to it and call it a day.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, God.2708 said:

There's little reason to throw around random 'you were just to glassy' claims. The damage calculations are well known.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlFw0YOML2JO6TZtOA-zVIYRUwfGNqA6VCoxPiYU+1enkEqhCzAA-w

Damage is Weapon Strength * Power * Power Mod / Armor

Now, I don't know if toolbelt skills use utility or weapon weapon strength, but we'll use utility weapon strength (690.5), and a clean 3.5k power which is a bit low for the most of these builds.

7,250,250 damage before armor. 3.6k to 2k armor, 2.4k to 3k armor. Throw in the damage modifiers, 5 stacks of vuln for 5%, 10%, 10%, and 220%.

~10,000 damage vs 2k armor, ~6700 vs 3k armor. That's honestly not to crazy, but still remarkably strong for something that really doesn't have a lot of damage stacking behind it.

The real outlier to me is explosive entrance. I have no idea why this ability has a 1.25 power mod and can crit, on a passive trait. Anet went through and nerfed basically every passive trait in the game to not be able to crit. We get a post about shattered aegis like every other week, but engineer is running around with a trait that hits as hard as most weapons big hit skills? Make it not crit like every other trait in the game  had done to it and call it a day.

More like this: Even higher spike

Something like +20k vs 2.6k armor before all the damage modifiers and vulnerability. From stealth.