Balance changes 7/7/2020 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Balance changes 7/7/2020

otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

Guardian
"Feel my Wrath!" is a very prominent skill for party support right now but we feel it's overperforming a bit. We're reducing the party quickness a bit, but compensating the guardian by increasing their personal quickness gain. We're also improving a few of the weaker utility skills to try and make them more appealing in all game modes.

Symbol of Vengeance: Reduced the duration of cripple inflicted from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.
Chapter 1: Searing Spell: Reduced the damage dealt by this skill by 14% (1.1 coefficient to 0.95) in PvE only. Reduced the duration of burning inflicted from 3 seconds to 2.5 seconds.
Chapter 2: Igniting Burst: Reduced the duration of burning inflicted from 6 seconds to 5 seconds.
Chapter 1: Desert Bloom: Reduced the base healing of this skill by 18% in PvE only. Increased the effect of healing power on this skill by 15% (0.96 to 1.1 coefficient) in PvE only.
Chapter 4: Shining River: Reduced the swiftness duration from 5 seconds to 4 seconds. Reduced the base healing by 16% (0.0578 to 0.05) and the effect of healing power on this skill by 14% (0.26 to 0.23 coefficient) in PvE only.
"Feel My Wrath!": Reduced recharge from 35 seconds to 30 seconds. This skill now grants 6 seconds of quickness to the guardian and 3 seconds to other nearby allies. It previously granted 5 seconds of quickness to all affected characters.
Zealous Blade: Fixed a bug that caused improper functionality with combo finishers.
"Hold the Line": Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
"Retreat!": This skill now uses ammunition with 5 seconds between activations and a 30-second count recharge.
Judge's Intervention: Reduced cooldown from 45 seconds to 40 seconds.
Litany of Wrath: Increased damage to healing conversion from 25% to 33%.
Leap of Faith: Increased base healing from 234 to 1,053 in PvP and WvW.
Mighty Blow: Reduced cooldown from 10 seconds to 8 seconds in PvP and WvW.
Glacial Blow: Reduced cooldown from 10 seconds to 8 seconds in PvP and WvW.
Whirling Wrath: Increased melee strike power coefficient from 0.3 to 0.4 in PvP and WvW. Reduced projectile power coefficient from 0.25 to 0.1 in PvP and WvW.
Pure of Heart: Reduced healing coefficient from 0.3 to 0.2 in WvW only.

Comments

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I do not have much input. The only change that has any impact is Feel My Wrath, which is a good change. I find a couple of changes baffling (like LoW), but overall, insignificant to remotely matter.

  • Mea.5491Mea.5491 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As a Burnbrand, I'm not happy about the Burning duration nerfs on some skills. 3 to 2.5 seconds, what's the point of this? Changing it for the sake of changing something.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2, 2020

    The Feel My Wrath change should have been compensated with a minor greater duration on the mantra of potence. This would discourage stacking dragonhunters but make using the mantra more meaningful.

    The changes to Retreat and Hold the Line are minor improvements overall ; while Pure of Heart gets a shave on support firebrands running the Honor Traitline.

    @Mea.5491 said:
    As a Burnbrand, I'm not happy about the Burning duration nerfs on some skills. 3 to 2.5 seconds, what's the point of this? Changing it for the sake of changing something.

    It's because while power quickness benches about as much as a alacrity renegade the condi quickness benches higher.

  • Derm.4932Derm.4932 Member ✭✭✭

    Was hoping for LB3 cast time reduction. PepeHands

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    that 2 sec shave on mighty blow... mmmm. juicy.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Absolute garbage. Jesus, I wish they'd interview this sub one day

  • Hagion.1086Hagion.1086 Member ✭✭

    Man...I just wanted to they change/buff core virtues...

  • kroof.5468kroof.5468 Member ✭✭

    @Hagion.1086 said:
    Man...I just wanted to they change/buff core virtues...

    You and me both ; - ;

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 3, 2020

    @Hagion.1086 said:
    Man...I just wanted to they change/buff core virtues...

    I don’t foresee this ever happening. Not cuz they do not need a buff. But this was requested for over 5 years now and it did not happen. And my confedience in Anet monitoring and/or fixing anything is nonexistent.

  • RUNICBLACK.7630RUNICBLACK.7630 Member ✭✭✭

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    Don't you love how Anet thinks? Who in their right mind would take Retreat / Hold the Line even with FULL 5 seconds shorter cooldown? Hammer is still useless - even if you make its skills 3 second cooldown - no one will run it in PVP. Same applies to GS. Anet clearly doesn't even play their own game.

    Just an observation that while the change to Retreat (making it an Ammo based skill) isn't hugely dramatic it could have an interesting effect for the support type FB in that it gives them another on demand access to Aegis(and that without having to resort to a tome and in addition Mantra of Solace) granted Pure of Heart's healing has been reduced in WvW but I think it still could helpful.

    Life before Death
    Strength before Weakness
    Journey before Destination
    stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Words

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭

    @RUNICBLACK.7630 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    Don't you love how Anet thinks? Who in their right mind would take Retreat / Hold the Line even with FULL 5 seconds shorter cooldown? Hammer is still useless - even if you make its skills 3 second cooldown - no one will run it in PVP. Same applies to GS. Anet clearly doesn't even play their own game.

    Just an observation that while the change to Retreat (making it an Ammo based skill) isn't hugely dramatic it could have an interesting effect for the support type FB in that it gives them another on demand access to Aegis(and that without having to resort to a tome and in addition Mantra of Solace) granted Pure of Heart's healing has been reduced in WvW but I think it still could helpful.

    Yes, it could see use. There are many skills that are used that are not that good. My point is anet 'balance' is a mess and for guard this time it's a lazy cooldown reduction on shouts (omglol), and unnecessary nerfs to PVE healing + ridiculous FMW 'rework'. FMW was fine after the Feb patch with reduced duration.

  • Ragnarox.9601Ragnarox.9601 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 4, 2020

    so they started to divide personal and party buffs, so ANET now repair your mistake and bring back mantra boons back(especially heal and quickness one) before the nerf and divide it by party and personal usability. They are garbage still.

    P.S. I expected buffs to spirit weapons by 5%, you didn't touch them in a long time. But we know you don't play guardians, its class for casuals anyways and not for serious pvp or wvw stuff.

  • Clyde.5178Clyde.5178 Member ✭✭

    I just got into gw2 this month and decided on condi firebrand for fractals and raids, just finished my ascended viper set. Am I screwed?

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    Guardian definitely needs some nerfs. It is the most played class, wherever you go there are overpowered guardians. I'd say it deserves more nerfs so people can start considering playing other classes too. Enough is enough.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Guardian definitely needs some nerfs. It is the most played class, wherever you go there are overpowered guardians. I'd say it deserves more nerfs so people can start considering playing other classes too. Enough is enough.

    Well.. beside the a slight nerf to FB dps not much has changed. FmW is a buff outside of group PvE. Even there, assuming you a running mostly a full guardian dps squad, I do not think the difference will be noticeable. The sharing is down, but considering a 1 sec increased duration for self and 5 sec lower CD, I still think 5 dps guardian comp is still possible. The uptime of quickness on 5 guardian players, without any boon duration, goes from 71% to 60%. On 4 players from 57% to 50%. This is marginal stuff, and buff everywhere outside of group PvE. I do no think Anet thought this through, which is a trend.

    As for guardian being most played class, it is not a performance related thing. It has to do more with lore and aesthetics. People like to play "paladin" archetypes. And has great PvE build diversity. Guardian is probably OP in WvW zerg setting. Outside of that it is either good (PvE) or mediocre (sPvP).

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    These changes do absolutely nothing. I will still never run Great Sword, Feel my Wrath, Hold the line nor Retreat. These "buffs" do nothing when the actual functionality of these needed changes, not minor adjustments. The only good change I saw was Litany, the rest were a joke.

    Where are the trait overhauls like what Necro got? I'd bet 100g that Guardian has, overall, the most and WORST traits to choose from.

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Guardian definitely needs some nerfs. It is the most played class, wherever you go there are overpowered guardians. I'd say it deserves more nerfs so people can start considering playing other classes too. Enough is enough.

    Well.. beside the a slight nerf to FB dps not much has changed. FmW is a buff outside of group PvE. Even there, assuming you a running mostly a full guardian dps squad, I do not think the difference will be noticeable. The sharing is down, but considering a 1 sec increased duration for self and 5 sec lower CD, I still think 5 dps guardian comp is still possible. The uptime of quickness on 5 guardian players, without any boon duration, goes from 71% to 60%. On 4 players from 57% to 50%. This is marginal stuff, and buff everywhere outside of group PvE. I do no think Anet thought this through, which is a trend.

    As for guardian being most played class, it is not a performance related thing. It has to do more with lore and aesthetics. People like to play "paladin" archetypes. And has great PvE build diversity. Guardian is probably OP in WvW zerg setting. Outside of that it is either good (PvE) or mediocre (sPvP).

    It's also one of the most stable professions. It gets tweaked every so often to be sure, but you could take a pre-HoT core build, or an immediately post-release dragonhunter or firebrand build, and there's a good chance it'll still work (I think the only one that was destroyed utterly was the one based around spamming aegis with Tome of Courage to trigger aegis traits). They may not be optimal, but they'll still work.

    Try saying that about, say, Mesmer.

    In an environment where ascended (and even some exotic stats) is a significant investment, this makes guardian a good choice because you're not likely to have gone to all that investment only to have it invalidated in the next patch. It also helps that it has versatility to fill a variety of roles, and some of the gear can potentially be shifted to warrior (banners) or rev (alacrity) if the group needs it. Once you've got a guardian going, then you can start working on a more 'exotic' option on the basis that if said option gets an overhaul which compromises it's viability and/or enjoyability, guardian is there as a fallback.

    So if you're basing your opinion on the balance state of guardians on how many you see in high-end PvE or even WvW, you may be looking at people who are starting off with guardian because it's a safer investment.

  • jan.7915jan.7915 Member ✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Guardian definitely needs some nerfs. It is the most played class, wherever you go there are overpowered guardians. I'd say it deserves more nerfs so people can start considering playing other classes too. Enough is enough.

    Well.. beside the a slight nerf to FB dps not much has changed. FmW is a buff outside of group PvE. Even there, assuming you a running mostly a full guardian dps squad, I do not think the difference will be noticeable. The sharing is down, but considering a 1 sec increased duration for self and 5 sec lower CD, I still think 5 dps guardian comp is still possible. The uptime of quickness on 5 guardian players, without any boon duration, goes from 71% to 60%. On 4 players from 57% to 50%. This is marginal stuff, and buff everywhere outside of group PvE. I do no think Anet thought this through, which is a trend.

    As for guardian being most played class, it is not a performance related thing. It has to do more with lore and aesthetics. People like to play "paladin" archetypes. And has great PvE build diversity. Guardian is probably OP in WvW zerg setting. Outside of that it is either good (PvE) or mediocre (sPvP).

    It's also one of the most stable professions. It gets tweaked every so often to be sure, but you could take a pre-HoT core build, or an immediately post-release dragonhunter or firebrand build, and there's a good chance it'll still work (I think the only one that was destroyed utterly was the one based around spamming aegis with Tome of Courage to trigger aegis traits). They may not be optimal, but they'll still work.

    Try saying that about, say, Mesmer.

    In an environment where ascended (and even some exotic stats) is a significant investment, this makes guardian a good choice because you're not likely to have gone to all that investment only to have it invalidated in the next patch. It also helps that it has versatility to fill a variety of roles, and some of the gear can potentially be shifted to warrior (banners) or rev (alacrity) if the group needs it. Once you've got a guardian going, then you can start working on a more 'exotic' option on the basis that if said option gets an overhaul which compromises it's viability and/or enjoyability, guardian is there as a fallback.

    So if you're basing your opinion on the balance state of guardians on how many you see in high-end PvE or even WvW, you may be looking at people who are starting off with guardian because it's a safer investment.

    I agree with everything but the point about ascended cost. 10h of medium efficient gaming like finishing your bounty achiev isn't a huge investment of time/effort for an endgame gear set.

    Also, I picked guardian because of how gs4 looks.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 Indeed. Guardian is probably your safest bet in PvE. It has multiple meta builds, of which some go back years ago. And I do not foresee that changing. I think guardian is a good role model of where classes need to be PvE wise. Nothing out performing (maybe FmW still), yet everything is fairly strong, works in most PvE situation, good support (even on dps builds) and multiple viable builds. That does not make it OP, just well designed. And, there is room for improvements. Many things do need improvements. And that is what I look for in patch notes, but usually nothing.

    As for PvP. Do not care much anymore. The PvP issues are far deeper than meta balancing. And sure as kitten these minuscule hammer and GS changes will not make any power build sPvP viable.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm a little puzzled at the PvE damage nerfs. Condi Firebrand wasn't edging out other condi builds for a spot in Fractals because it was OP, but because the rest of them are kitten. Scourge is tolerated because of Epi, strips/corrupt and barrier, but any other condi build would just be better off as power. The problem is how Fractals work and how long the ramp up time is on non-burning condition builds - not that FB was OP.

    In Raids where the boss lives longer and burst isn't always king there are lots of condi builds that are competitive. My only guess is that they wanted to nerf the baseline damage a support firebrand can dish out, but who cares, since that isn't why FB is taken as a support.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @jan.7915 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Guardian definitely needs some nerfs. It is the most played class, wherever you go there are overpowered guardians. I'd say it deserves more nerfs so people can start considering playing other classes too. Enough is enough.

    Well.. beside the a slight nerf to FB dps not much has changed. FmW is a buff outside of group PvE. Even there, assuming you a running mostly a full guardian dps squad, I do not think the difference will be noticeable. The sharing is down, but considering a 1 sec increased duration for self and 5 sec lower CD, I still think 5 dps guardian comp is still possible. The uptime of quickness on 5 guardian players, without any boon duration, goes from 71% to 60%. On 4 players from 57% to 50%. This is marginal stuff, and buff everywhere outside of group PvE. I do no think Anet thought this through, which is a trend.

    As for guardian being most played class, it is not a performance related thing. It has to do more with lore and aesthetics. People like to play "paladin" archetypes. And has great PvE build diversity. Guardian is probably OP in WvW zerg setting. Outside of that it is either good (PvE) or mediocre (sPvP).

    It's also one of the most stable professions. It gets tweaked every so often to be sure, but you could take a pre-HoT core build, or an immediately post-release dragonhunter or firebrand build, and there's a good chance it'll still work (I think the only one that was destroyed utterly was the one based around spamming aegis with Tome of Courage to trigger aegis traits). They may not be optimal, but they'll still work.

    Try saying that about, say, Mesmer.

    In an environment where ascended (and even some exotic stats) is a significant investment, this makes guardian a good choice because you're not likely to have gone to all that investment only to have it invalidated in the next patch. It also helps that it has versatility to fill a variety of roles, and some of the gear can potentially be shifted to warrior (banners) or rev (alacrity) if the group needs it. Once you've got a guardian going, then you can start working on a more 'exotic' option on the basis that if said option gets an overhaul which compromises it's viability and/or enjoyability, guardian is there as a fallback.

    So if you're basing your opinion on the balance state of guardians on how many you see in high-end PvE or even WvW, you may be looking at people who are starting off with guardian because it's a safer investment.

    I agree with everything but the point about ascended cost. 10h of medium efficient gaming like finishing your bounty achiev isn't a huge investment of time/effort for an endgame gear set.

    Also, I picked guardian because of how gs4 looks.

    Different people have different ideas of what is expensive. For some people, 10h of farming rather than spending their gaming time doing something they enjoy more is a significant investment. Not an insurmountable one, to be sure, but enough that you don't want to do that and then have it invalidated in the next balance patch.

    At the very least, it's a contributing factor that can hinder some people in picking up new builds as the meta shifts, which means that builds that have been relatively stable for a while are likely to be over-represented. (Another contributing factor along similar lines is that if the build remains stable, you're not having to constantly re-learn your rotations.)

    @otto.5684 said:
    @draxynnic.3719 Indeed. Guardian is probably your safest bet in PvE. It has multiple meta builds, of which some go back years ago. And I do not foresee that changing. I think guardian is a good role model of where classes need to be PvE wise. Nothing out performing (maybe FmW still), yet everything is fairly strong, works in most PvE situation, good support (even on dps builds) and multiple viable builds. That does not make it OP, just well designed. And, there is room for improvements. Many things do need improvements. And that is what I look for in patch notes, but usually nothing.

    Yeah. it hasn't changed much in part because it was well designed to begin with, and in part because it doesn't try to play in niche playstyles to begin with (see, again, mesmer. I like mesmers, but by Lyssa, there's a profession that seems to be almost completely different every year or so...)

    One of the things I consider ironic here is that condi firebrand DPS isn't all that huge. It's competitive when you have allies to add Ashes of the Just to, but most professions can bench higher and warrior doesn't fall short by much (necromancer falls short by a lot, which is a necromancer problem rather than a guardian problem, although they do have Epidemic). Firebrigade probably does sacrifice less DPS overall than chrono, but it doesn't seem to be a huge difference and sometimes there are advantages to having both buffs in one package.

    Power dragonhunter is pretty high up there, but that's not what they're hitting now.

  • Is it only me, or did the cd of Glacial Blow go up from 6 to 8 sec in WvW?

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @wolvblade.2405 said:
    Is it only me, or did the cd of Glacial Blow go up from 6 to 8 sec in WvW?

    It was 10 secs before in PvP. It is 6 secs in PvE and that did not change.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 8, 2020

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Guardian definitely needs some nerfs. It is the most played class, wherever you go there are overpowered guardians. I'd say it deserves more nerfs so people can start considering playing other classes too. Enough is enough.

    NOthing needs a nerf just because it's the most played class. What ridiculous thinking that is.

    As normal, changes are leaving Guardian pretty much where Anet continues to say they want them to be.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Clyde.5178Clyde.5178 Member ✭✭

    Just hit the golem for a bit on condi and can't see any noticeable difference in damage.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 8, 2020

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Guardian definitely needs some nerfs. It is the most played class, wherever you go there are overpowered guardians. I'd say it deserves more nerfs so people can start considering playing other classes too. Enough is enough.

    NOthing needs a nerf just because it's the most played class. What ridiculous thinking that is.

    As normal, changes are leaving Guardian pretty much where Anet continues to say they want them to be.

    What about diversity ? What is ridiculous is the community not accepting offmeta, so I am forced to play guardian pretty much all the time and it starts to be boring. Everybody advises playing guardian just because how strong and versatile that class is not because of "aesthetics" or "lore". WVW: guardians rule, PVP: guardians rule: Fractals: guardians rule, Raids: Guardians rule again.
    Just to backup my words I will leave this video here:

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Guardian definitely needs some nerfs. It is the most played class, wherever you go there are overpowered guardians. I'd say it deserves more nerfs so people can start considering playing other classes too. Enough is enough.

    NOthing needs a nerf just because it's the most played class. What ridiculous thinking that is.

    As normal, changes are leaving Guardian pretty much where Anet continues to say they want them to be.

    What about diversity ? What is ridiculous is the community not accepting offmeta, so I am forced to play guardian pretty much all the time and it starts to be boring. Everybody advises playing guardian just because how strong and versatile that class is not because of "aesthetics" or "lore". WVW: guardians rule, PVP: guardians rule: Fractals: guardians rule, Raids: Guardians rule again.
    Just to backup my words I will leave this video here:

    In guardian forums we do not talk about blob PvP. Blob is blob. Talking about it is blob. In all seriousness, Zerg WvW is not something to talk about for balance. It Is a kitten hot garbage sludge by design.

    Guardian Is of a solid in group, but in no way is the absolute best. In fact, you can run a comp without a single guardian and you would not have any issues. DH has had the same performance output for years.

    Guardian is currently bad in sPvP.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    First minute of the video: Play what works for you, the balance is such that finding the profession that works for you is more important than what's objectively better. (I'm not sure that's quite true, I think some professions are generally hurting at the moment, but guardian isn't so good that it's objectively better for high-end PvE content than the likes of revenant, mesmer, and other professions that can bring both good DPS and good support builds)

    1:00-1:30 If (Nike) was giving advice to a new player starting off... (Let's face it, guardian is simpler to play than a lot of other professions. Being new-player-friendly, however, is not a reason to nerf something.)

    1:30-2:30 Guardian weapons have good internal balance. (This is an indicator of good design, not being broken.)

    2:30-3:30 Guardian has a wide range of roles it can fill. (Being versatile is not an indicator that any given build is overpowered. Having a lot of viable builds instead of being pigeonholed into one or two is, instead, an indicator of good design.)

    3:30-4:00 Guardian is good in all PvE game modes. (Likely because of the versatility factor above. Again, being good everywhere doesn't mean it's overpowered to the point of needing a nerf anywhere.)

    4:00-4:45 Aesthetics. (Helps explain popularity, if a significant portion of the player base agree, but looking good does not mean overpowered.)

    4:45+ Conclusion

    So yeah, I'm not seeing anything in there that supports your argument that guardian needs a big nerf. Nowhere there does Nike say that guardians are significantly more powerful than other professions or that its essential in any content (it really isn't, everything any guardian build brings to high-end PvE has at least one other profession that can bring the same thing, as opposed to some things like banners and certain traits that are unique to specific professions and mean that you usually want at least one of that profession in instanced content). Instead, he's pretty much saying what we've been saying - it's a well designed profession that can serve in a variety of roles and which has a variety of builds.

    Which is the essence of the whole 'guardian is in a good place' line that ArenaNet has been giving for years. It's usually not the thing that's dominant in sPvP (although support firebrand was for a while). It's not the top DPS. It's just something that can provide solid performance in a variety of circumstances.

    If you're looking to argue that guardian is too dominant, you'd be better served by pointing towards the Snowcrows raid setup guides. A lot of them are stacked towards guardians (those that aren't mostly stack mesmers, with one that stacks thieves, and one that splits thieves and revenants). But one thing that you'll also note is that every raid build, without fail, has at least one ranger and at least one warrior, and all but two have at least one revenant. There's a reason for this - because those professions bring unique party stat boosts to the table.

    But what's actually happening is that guardian fulfills one of the original promises of Guild Wars 2: that any profession can fill a variety of roles effectively without being pigeon-holed into one. It's not the only profession that achieves this, but the others that manage this are all more difficult to play and are hence a bit less popular. You shouldn't be asking for guardian to be nerfed because it has versatility - you should be asking for other professions to be brought up to the same level of versatility.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 8, 2020

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Guardian definitely needs some nerfs. It is the most played class, wherever you go there are overpowered guardians. I'd say it deserves more nerfs so people can start considering playing other classes too. Enough is enough.

    NOthing needs a nerf just because it's the most played class. What ridiculous thinking that is.

    As normal, changes are leaving Guardian pretty much where Anet continues to say they want them to be.

    What about diversity ?

    Let's not go down a path that may embarrass you by claiming no one is playing other classes because of Guardian. If you want to claim we don't have diversity ... AND the lack of diversity is the reason people only play Guardian, you have to show BOTH of those things, not just state it like it's a foregone conclusion.

    There will ALWAYS be a top dog in this game (and it's never prevented people from playing other classes either), so it's not a reason to swing the nerf bat at it.

    Like i said ... Guardian is balance-wise, in a good place ... you just don't understand what Anet's balance target is. Actually, just read the post above this one ... pretty much explains it for you.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    What about diversity ?

    Let's not go down a path that may embarrass you by claiming no one is playing other classes because of Guardian. If you want to claim we don't have diversity ... AND the lack of diversity is the reason people only play Guardian, you have to show BOTH of those things, not just state it like it's a foregone conclusion.

    I don't care what others play. I want to play something other than guardian myself and I can't. Because you simply can't replace DH and FB in raids nor fractals nor WVW. Okay I can play another meta class in WVW and that's it.

    There will ALWAYS be a top dog in this game (and it's never prevented people from playing other classes either), so it's not a reason to swing the nerf bat at it.

    Yes and for a very long time it is the Guardian at least in PVE: Tank firebrand in raids , heal firebrand in raids and fractals, condi firebrand pretty much broken where there is a possiblity to reset F1, power firebrand dominating CMs with DH (rip) and if you want to play a dps in raids you just go DH if firebrand is not broken there. Yes you have a alacrigade (replaceable with chronos), there is a bs and druid (not mandatory at all) apart from those you can just fill with guardians in MOST raid encounters. And when I say you can it is what factually I see in all raid groups I know and pugs and it is what I play too.
    In wvw... well you know the story I won't say anything here.
    in sPVP guardian is not the only solid pick ofc, but it is a solid pick anyway.

    Like i said ... Guardian is balance-wise, in a good place ... you just don't understand what Anet's balance target is. Actually, just read the post above this one ... pretty much explains it for you.

    I don't think anyone understands what Anet's balance target is.

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    First minute of the video: Play what works for you, the balance is such that finding the profession that works for you is more important than what's objectively better. (I'm not sure that's quite true, I think some professions are generally hurting at the moment, but guardian isn't so good that it's objectively better for high-end PvE content than the likes of revenant, mesmer, and other professions that can bring both good DPS and good support builds)

    Well it is not good.. it is BEST. PVEwise DH and FB are the best in dps and supportwise they are the best too with only ALAC being a boon they can't EASILY provide pretty much permanently.

    1:00-1:30 If (Nike) was giving advice to a new player starting off... (Let's face it, guardian is simpler to play than a lot of other professions. Being new-player-friendly, however, is not a reason to nerf something.)

    I don't agree. Mastering firebrand is very difficult. However due to the strength it got, mediocre fb players think that firebrand is as mediocre as their skills. I would argue that playing modern power weaver is easier. But there are necro sb warrior and rene that are easier to play than guardian.

    1:30-2:30 Guardian weapons have good internal balance. (This is an indicator of good design, not being broken.)

    What about mantras ? Is that balanced too ?

    2:30-3:30 Guardian has a wide range of roles it can fill. (Being versatile is not an indicator that any given build is overpowered. Having a lot of viable builds instead of being pigeonholed into one or two is, instead, an indicator of good design.)

    Well being a support and ditching out so much damage means it is a bad design. If you don't know why try playing alacheal in casual fractals and ask your firebrand go full offensive stats and you will see your group dps skyrocket.

    3:30-4:00 Guardian is good in all PvE game modes. (Likely because of the versatility factor above. Again, being good everywhere doesn't mean it's overpowered to the point of needing a nerf anywhere.)

    Renegade is good, warrior is good, engi is good too... They do what they are supposed to do but not more. Guardian is overpowered. You never see a raid group with 1 guardian and 9 engies do you ?

    4:00-4:45 Aesthetics. (Helps explain popularity, if a significant portion of the player base agree, but looking good does not mean overpowered.)

    you can't know that, it is a taste thing, if you like it doesn't mean everyone likes it lol.

    4:45+ Conclusion

    So yeah, I'm not seeing anything in there that supports your argument that guardian needs a big nerf. Nowhere there does Nike say that guardians are significantly more powerful than other professions or that its essential in any content (it really isn't, everything any guardian build brings to high-end PvE has at least one other profession that can bring the same thing, as opposed to some things like banners and certain traits that are unique to specific professions and mean that you usually want at least one of that profession in instanced content). Instead, he's pretty much saying what we've been saying - it's a well designed profession that can serve in a variety of roles and which has a variety of builds.

    Well I shared the video to show you smb advising everyone to play guardian. Nuf said.

    Which is the essence of the whole 'guardian is in a good place' line that ArenaNet has been giving for years. It's usually not the thing that's dominant in sPvP (although support firebrand was for a while). It's not the top DPS. It's just something that can provide solid performance in a variety of circumstances.

    Yeah it is not top dps in sPVP, now go ask Anet so it becomes one lol.

    If you're looking to argue that guardian is too dominant, you'd be better served by pointing towards the Snowcrows raid setup guides. A lot of them are stacked towards guardians (those that aren't mostly stack mesmers, with one that stacks thieves, and one that splits thieves and revenants). But one thing that you'll also note is that every raid build, without fail, has at least one ranger and at least one warrior, and all but two have at least one revenant. There's a reason for this - because those professions bring unique party stat boosts to the table.

    Snowcrows raid setups is outdated for a long time. And anyway it doesn't matter much because ppl play with statics and pugs. I guess all your lack of knowledge comes from looking at numbers without analyzing real game situations behind it. Firebrand given mobs to reset f1 can't be beaten by anything, and it provided permaquickness, fury and might with no to minimal BD gear... that is what I call broken: face it. No alacrigrade can do something like that. Mesmer stacking is gone a long time ago. You can go with thieves to 1 bossfight. Yes, I know exactly what bossfight you are talking about. My static isn't doing it and I never see it in pugs. Only thieves show up there, because it is one of the few raid fights they are strong indeed. Apart from Xera there is Mathias too. Well it is one of the few places where mirage is played in a high level.

    But what's actually happening is that guardian fulfills one of the original promises of Guild Wars 2: that any profession can fill a variety of roles effectively without being pigeon-holed into one. It's not the only profession that achieves this, but the others that manage this are all more difficult to play and are hence a bit less popular. You shouldn't be asking for guardian to be nerfed because it has versatility - you should be asking for other professions to be brought up to the same level of versatility.

    I am telling you again, I hate playing guardian but I am forced to play it because it is very strong. DH with his bursts and Firebrand with f1 resets and no bd support capabilities. No other class can do it.

  • Mahou.3924Mahou.3924 Member ✭✭✭

    You are only forced to play Guardian if you are weak-willed and enjoy letting others step on you. Look for like-minded players who don't breathe and pray to the met and all of your questionable to funny "arguments" will fade out over the time.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    First minute of the video: Play what works for you, the balance is such that finding the profession that works for you is more important than what's objectively better. (I'm not sure that's quite true, I think some professions are generally hurting at the moment, but guardian isn't so good that it's objectively better for high-end PvE content than the likes of revenant, mesmer, and other professions that can bring both good DPS and good support builds)

    Well it is not good.. it is BEST. PVEwise DH and FB are the best in dps and supportwise they are the best too with only ALAC being a boon they can't EASILY provide pretty much permanently.

    Not according to the benchmarks I've seen. Now, golem benchmarks assume perfect rotations, which are not always possible in actual raids, so maybe guardian DPS builds are less susceptible to having their rotation disrupted, but they're not the best.

    As for having good support as well... that's part of having versatility. You don't get top DPS and top support out of the same build - DPS-oriented guardians, like DPS roles from other professions, are pretty selfish in their utilities.

    1:00-1:30 If (Nike) was giving advice to a new player starting off... (Let's face it, guardian is simpler to play than a lot of other professions. Being new-player-friendly, however, is not a reason to nerf something.)

    I don't agree. Mastering firebrand is very difficult. However due to the strength it got, mediocre fb players think that firebrand is as mediocre as their skills. I would argue that playing modern power weaver is easier. But there are necro sb warrior and rene that are easier to play than guardian.

    Firebrand is more difficult to master than core guardian or dragonhunter, sure, but support builds in general tend to be more complicated to master. Boon chrono is known for being fairly difficult, which is why people who are good at it are in high demand (and probably part of why fractal PUGs prefer firebrigade - firebrigade is pretty reliable even if people aren't experts, while a bad boon chrono is much more of a risk). Heal druid can be fairly unforgiving. Alacrigade is... probably roughly at the same level of difficulty as firebrand, but it's on revenant, and I would not be recommending revenant as somebody's first main (it's a good choice once you have a bit more knowledge of the game and start branching out, but not a first choice).

    1:30-2:30 Guardian weapons have good internal balance. (This is an indicator of good design, not being broken.)

    What about mantras ? Is that balanced too ?

    Support firebrands generally take a lot of mantras, but this is like support tempests usually taking several shouts - surprisingly enough, the support-oriented elite specialisation also happens to bring a lot of support-oriented utilities. DPS-oriented firebrands tend not to stack mantras so much.

    2:30-3:30 Guardian has a wide range of roles it can fill. (Being versatile is not an indicator that any given build is overpowered. Having a lot of viable builds instead of being pigeonholed into one or two is, instead, an indicator of good design.)

    Well being a support and ditching out so much damage means it is a bad design. If you don't know why try playing alacheal in casual fractals and ask your firebrand go full offensive stats and you will see your group dps skyrocket.

    DPS renegades also dish out a fair chunk of damage. At most, what you're pointing out there is that firebrands sacrifice less DPS to provide quickness than renegades sacrifice to provide full alacrity uptime.

    3:30-4:00 Guardian is good in all PvE game modes. (Likely because of the versatility factor above. Again, being good everywhere doesn't mean it's overpowered to the point of needing a nerf anywhere.)

    Renegade is good, warrior is good, engi is good too... They do what they are supposed to do but not more. Guardian is overpowered. You never see a raid group with 1 guardian and 9 engies do you ?

    How many raid groups with 9 guardians and 1 other profession do you see? Doesn't matter how versatile the guardian is, you're giving up something valuable if you're stacking them that much. You can probably get away with it if you have a good group, because raids don't require optimal groups, but you're definitely handicapping yourself.

    Even putting that aside, Engineer is complicated to play, which is naturally going to reduce both the people who are playing it and the trust people have in someone else playing it if they don't know the engineer player. It's also one of the professions that probably needs to be brought up - at the moment, all it has is DPS and a healing setup that doesn't provide much in the way of offensive support (although stability is indispensable for large-scale WvW... which is, incidentally, also why guardians are so prevalent in WvW zergs).

    Pretty sure, though, that if you could make nine guardians work, you could also make nine mesmers or nine revenants work. Heck, with mesmers, you might even be able to go all ten!

    4:00-4:45 Aesthetics. (Helps explain popularity, if a significant portion of the player base agree, but looking good does not mean overpowered.)

    you can't know that, it is a taste thing, if you like it doesn't mean everyone likes it lol.

    Sure, it's a taste thing, but from what I've seen, there does seem to be a general consensus that the heavy armour sets are among the best and provide the most variety. Certainly they're better regarded among the player base than the trenchcoat-heavy medium class. Meanwhile, guardian does have access to a lot of popular legendary weapons.

    4:45+ Conclusion

    So yeah, I'm not seeing anything in there that supports your argument that guardian needs a big nerf. Nowhere there does Nike say that guardians are significantly more powerful than other professions or that its essential in any content (it really isn't, everything any guardian build brings to high-end PvE has at least one other profession that can bring the same thing, as opposed to some things like banners and certain traits that are unique to specific professions and mean that you usually want at least one of that profession in instanced content). Instead, he's pretty much saying what we've been saying - it's a well designed profession that can serve in a variety of roles and which has a variety of builds.

    Well I shared the video to show you smb advising everyone to play guardian. Nuf said.

    Not when you look at the actual reasons why. Nowhere in Nike's reasoning does he say "guardian is the most powerful profession and you should play it because it's powerful". He spends about half the video talking about how there are a lot of different ways to play the profession which are all viable - which is certainly a good thing to have if you're only going to play one profession. He spends close to a minute in a five minute video talking about flipping aesthetics.

    But the biggest thing you're missing? He spends the first minute basically saying "play what you like the look of". Everything works, he just comes around to guardian as a "but if you really can't decide, here's what might marginally be the best option". He's not saying that Guardian is the best thing ever and that if you play anything else you're just handicapping yourself. Just that if you had to choose one to start off with and none of the others were calling to you, guardian is a good place to start. Mostly because it does have a lot of options within the profession, rather than being pigeon-holed into just one or two.

    Incidentally, another thing that I'd add that Nike is missing? Gear cross-compatibility. Once you've got to Ascended or Legendary, your armour sets and at least some of your weapons can be transferred to a warrior or revenant if that's what your team needs more: sure, gear that's optimised for a guardian build might not be optimal for a warrior or revenant, but it'll do well enough. Meanwhile, guardians and mesmers have a lot of weapons in common, so while shifting from guardian to mesmer will require new armour sets, you can probably move your weapons over. This makes guardian a good stepping stone for four of the most desired professions in high-end PvE, which means that starting off by kitting out a guardian can easily result in a fairly versatile account with relatively little investment compared to starting with another profession.

    (EDIT: There's decent crossover with ranger weapons as well, but there are enough non-shared weapons that it wouldn't be as easy a transition as going from guardian to mesmer. Already having an axe, staff, torch and greatsword with the same stats and probably the same sigils is still a pretty good head start, though.)

    Which is the essence of the whole 'guardian is in a good place' line that ArenaNet has been giving for years. It's usually not the thing that's dominant in sPvP (although support firebrand was for a while). It's not the top DPS. It's just something that can provide solid performance in a variety of circumstances.

    Yeah it is not top dps in sPVP, now go ask Anet so it becomes one lol.

    Nah. I know a few guardian players have complained in the past about guardians not being the OP thing in sPvP, but "rarely dominant but never trash" is actually a good state to be in, and part of the reason why it's been fairly stable balance-wise. Better than being OP one patch and trash the next. Half of the calls I see to nerf guardian come from players of other professions that have just been nerfed from an OP status coming to spread their sour grapes around.

    If you're looking to argue that guardian is too dominant, you'd be better served by pointing towards the Snowcrows raid setup guides. A lot of them are stacked towards guardians (those that aren't mostly stack mesmers, with one that stacks thieves, and one that splits thieves and revenants). But one thing that you'll also note is that every raid build, without fail, has at least one ranger and at least one warrior, and all but two have at least one revenant. There's a reason for this - because those professions bring unique party stat boosts to the table.

    Snowcrows raid setups is outdated for a long time. And anyway it doesn't matter much because ppl play with statics and pugs. I guess all your lack of knowledge comes from looking at numbers without analyzing real game situations behind it. Firebrand given mobs to reset f1 can't be beaten by anything, and it provided permaquickness, fury and might with no to minimal BD gear... that is what I call broken: face it. No alacrigrade can do something like that. Mesmer stacking is gone a long time ago. You can go with thieves to 1 bossfight. Yes, I know exactly what bossfight you are talking about. My static isn't doing it and I never see it in pugs. Only thieves show up there, because it is one of the few raid fights they are strong indeed. Apart from Xera there is Mathias too. Well it is one of the few places where mirage is played in a high level.

    Snowcrows may be outdated, but hey, the fact that a lot of their suggested setups stack guardians would support your argument better than a video in which an experienced player basically says that the professions are close enough that you can do well in any profession (and, in fact, that playing a profession you enjoy and are good at is more important than any inter-profession balance differences) but that if he had to choose he'd go guardian for a bunch of reasons that aren't "because guardian is just more powerful than any other profession." That said, for most of those team builds that stack guardian? You could probably replace the DPS elements with other DPS builds without any really noticeable dip in performance.

    Getting mobs to reset doesn't happen often in raids and strikes (often enough when there are adds in such content, they don't provide experience or loot anyway and therefore don't trigger the radiance trait). Condi quickbrand can be pretty powerful in open world meta events, but people don't gatekeep open world meta events.

    My experience with 10-man instanced content? People like having banners, a druid, permanent quickness, permanent alacrity, and a secondary healer. Beyond that, unless there's some quirk of the content that demands something specific, people generally don't care what you bring to DPS roles.

    Maybe you're having a different experience, but that might be saying more about who you play with than the game's balance state.

    But what's actually happening is that guardian fulfills one of the original promises of Guild Wars 2: that any profession can fill a variety of roles effectively without being pigeon-holed into one. It's not the only profession that achieves this, but the others that manage this are all more difficult to play and are hence a bit less popular. You shouldn't be asking for guardian to be nerfed because it has versatility - you should be asking for other professions to be brought up to the same level of versatility.

    I am telling you again, I hate playing guardian but I am forced to play it because it is very strong. DH with his bursts and Firebrand with f1 resets and no bd support capabilities. No other class can do it.

    Mesmer and revenant both have a variety of builds and the potential to pull off stuff that guardians can't. Ranger too. Other professions are either pigeonholed, have support builds that don't provide much in the way of offensive and/or unique benefits and therefore aren't in as much demand in high-end instanced content, or in the case of necromancer just doesn't bench very high. But these are problems with those professions, not with the guardian.

    Again, it was part of the core promise of GW2 that every profession has a variety of roles it can fill. It seems that you're targeting guardian because it actually succeeds at achieving this. You shouldn't be demanding guardian nerfs because it actually achieves this, you should be looking for other professions to be brought up to that standard.

    And, hey. There's an expansion being worked on. Maybe new elite specialisations will achieve that.

  • jan.7915jan.7915 Member ✭✭

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    What about diversity ?

    Let's not go down a path that may embarrass you by claiming no one is playing other classes because of Guardian. If you want to claim we don't have diversity ... AND the lack of diversity is the reason people only play Guardian, you have to show BOTH of those things, not just state it like it's a foregone conclusion.

    I don't care what others play. I want to play something other than guardian myself and I can't. Because you simply can't replace DH and FB in raids nor fractals nor WVW. Okay I can play another meta class in WVW and that's it.

    There will ALWAYS be a top dog in this game (and it's never prevented people from playing other classes either), so it's not a reason to swing the nerf bat at it.

    Yes and for a very long time it is the Guardian at least in PVE: Tank firebrand in raids , heal firebrand in raids and fractals, condi firebrand pretty much broken where there is a possiblity to reset F1, power firebrand dominating CMs with DH (rip) and if you want to play a dps in raids you just go DH if firebrand is not broken there. Yes you have a alacrigade (replaceable with chronos), there is a bs and druid (not mandatory at all) apart from those you can just fill with guardians in MOST raid encounters. And when I say you can it is what factually I see in all raid groups I know and pugs and it is what I play too.
    In wvw... well you know the story I won't say anything here.
    in sPVP guardian is not the only solid pick ofc, but it is a solid pick anyway.

    Like i said ... Guardian is balance-wise, in a good place ... you just don't understand what Anet's balance target is. Actually, just read the post above this one ... pretty much explains it for you.

    I don't think anyone understands what Anet's balance target is.

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    First minute of the video: Play what works for you, the balance is such that finding the profession that works for you is more important than what's objectively better. (I'm not sure that's quite true, I think some professions are generally hurting at the moment, but guardian isn't so good that it's objectively better for high-end PvE content than the likes of revenant, mesmer, and other professions that can bring both good DPS and good support builds)

    Well it is not good.. it is BEST. PVEwise DH and FB are the best in dps and supportwise they are the best too with only ALAC being a boon they can't EASILY provide pretty much permanently.

    1:00-1:30 If (Nike) was giving advice to a new player starting off... (Let's face it, guardian is simpler to play than a lot of other professions. Being new-player-friendly, however, is not a reason to nerf something.)

    I don't agree. Mastering firebrand is very difficult. However due to the strength it got, mediocre fb players think that firebrand is as mediocre as their skills. I would argue that playing modern power weaver is easier. But there are necro sb warrior and rene that are easier to play than guardian.

    1:30-2:30 Guardian weapons have good internal balance. (This is an indicator of good design, not being broken.)

    What about mantras ? Is that balanced too ?

    2:30-3:30 Guardian has a wide range of roles it can fill. (Being versatile is not an indicator that any given build is overpowered. Having a lot of viable builds instead of being pigeonholed into one or two is, instead, an indicator of good design.)

    Well being a support and ditching out so much damage means it is a bad design. If you don't know why try playing alacheal in casual fractals and ask your firebrand go full offensive stats and you will see your group dps skyrocket.

    3:30-4:00 Guardian is good in all PvE game modes. (Likely because of the versatility factor above. Again, being good everywhere doesn't mean it's overpowered to the point of needing a nerf anywhere.)

    Renegade is good, warrior is good, engi is good too... They do what they are supposed to do but not more. Guardian is overpowered. You never see a raid group with 1 guardian and 9 engies do you ?

    4:00-4:45 Aesthetics. (Helps explain popularity, if a significant portion of the player base agree, but looking good does not mean overpowered.)

    you can't know that, it is a taste thing, if you like it doesn't mean everyone likes it lol.

    4:45+ Conclusion

    So yeah, I'm not seeing anything in there that supports your argument that guardian needs a big nerf. Nowhere there does Nike say that guardians are significantly more powerful than other professions or that its essential in any content (it really isn't, everything any guardian build brings to high-end PvE has at least one other profession that can bring the same thing, as opposed to some things like banners and certain traits that are unique to specific professions and mean that you usually want at least one of that profession in instanced content). Instead, he's pretty much saying what we've been saying - it's a well designed profession that can serve in a variety of roles and which has a variety of builds.

    Well I shared the video to show you smb advising everyone to play guardian. Nuf said.

    Which is the essence of the whole 'guardian is in a good place' line that ArenaNet has been giving for years. It's usually not the thing that's dominant in sPvP (although support firebrand was for a while). It's not the top DPS. It's just something that can provide solid performance in a variety of circumstances.

    Yeah it is not top dps in sPVP, now go ask Anet so it becomes one lol.

    If you're looking to argue that guardian is too dominant, you'd be better served by pointing towards the Snowcrows raid setup guides. A lot of them are stacked towards guardians (those that aren't mostly stack mesmers, with one that stacks thieves, and one that splits thieves and revenants). But one thing that you'll also note is that every raid build, without fail, has at least one ranger and at least one warrior, and all but two have at least one revenant. There's a reason for this - because those professions bring unique party stat boosts to the table.

    Snowcrows raid setups is outdated for a long time. And anyway it doesn't matter much because ppl play with statics and pugs. I guess all your lack of knowledge comes from looking at numbers without analyzing real game situations behind it. Firebrand given mobs to reset f1 can't be beaten by anything, and it provided permaquickness, fury and might with no to minimal BD gear... that is what I call broken: face it. No alacrigrade can do something like that. Mesmer stacking is gone a long time ago. You can go with thieves to 1 bossfight. Yes, I know exactly what bossfight you are talking about. My static isn't doing it and I never see it in pugs. Only thieves show up there, because it is one of the few raid fights they are strong indeed. Apart from Xera there is Mathias too. Well it is one of the few places where mirage is played in a high level.

    But what's actually happening is that guardian fulfills one of the original promises of Guild Wars 2: that any profession can fill a variety of roles effectively without being pigeon-holed into one. It's not the only profession that achieves this, but the others that manage this are all more difficult to play and are hence a bit less popular. You shouldn't be asking for guardian to be nerfed because it has versatility - you should be asking for other professions to be brought up to the same level of versatility.

    I am telling you again, I hate playing guardian but I am forced to play it because it is very strong. DH with his bursts and Firebrand with f1 resets and no bd support capabilities. No other class can do it.

    You know, world first kills are done until there's a new raid out.until then, why the heck do you have to play guardian even if it is the best? I am sure that a static kills everything even with a meme comp for fun. If yours doesn't allow fun, find one that does.

    Can't disagree, I am on and off gw2 and never on top of the meta. Always loved my guardian core with shouts, DH, FB..it was never had.

    @time investment for a new ascended set: you get it by playing enjoyable things too be it PvP, wvw, raids,fractals, festivals..I used a low number of income instead of 39g/hr dragonfall wanking.
    Hot stats suck about gotta give you that that's mediocre design.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arken.3725 said:
    Where are the trait overhauls like what Necro got? I'd bet 100g that Guardian has, overall, the most and WORST traits to choose from.

    I'm not sure you really understand what you're jealous of. Some of these "overhauls" are flat nerfs disguised in a new package after all.

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    You might be right but i'd still like some change-ups.

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @jan.7915 said:

    @time investment for a new ascended set: you get it by playing enjoyable things too be it PvP, wvw, raids,fractals, festivals..I used a low number of income instead of 39g/hr dragonfall wanking.
    Hot stats suck about gotta give you that that's mediocre design.

    Nobody's saying it's an insurmountable barrier, and once you break into high-end PvE instanced content like raids and upper-tier festivals the rate certainly accelerates. Until you do, though, PvP and WvW are fairly slow (most of my ascended gear comes from sPvP, and at this stage I've got about three armour sets out of playing every season since ascended shards were introduced) and festivals are 1) not available all the time, and 2) the most lucrative festival activities are usually still pretty much repetitive farming and people's tolerances to that vary.

    There's also the aspect that spending your account wealth on getting ascended means that you're not spending it on other things you might want.

    Whichever way you spin it, for a lot of players, getting their first set or two of ascended is a significant enough investment that people might not want to risk it being invalidated in the next balance patch.

  • Kulvar.1239Kulvar.1239 Member ✭✭✭

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Guardian definitely needs some nerfs. It is the most played class, wherever you go there are overpowered guardians. I'd say it deserves more nerfs so people can start considering playing other classes too. Enough is enough.

    Most people play Guardian because you can destroy anything using effective DPS weapons, heal through damage with LoW or block big occasional hits, have defensive cooldown to break stun and clean conditions, lot of stability to not be bothered with all the CC foes throw at you, while having cool looking weapons available.