Easily overlooked critical lore about Sohothin

A lot of folks may have complaints about how we were able to defeat Balthazar so easily at the end. While digging through reddit dev comments for wiki editing, I stumbled across one that casually mentions something pretty damn critical:

I think you might have answered your own question, bc Sohothin and Aurene are definitely key factors ;) However, it's important to remember that Balthazar's power level is not at the same level when the other gods stripped him of his power and chained him in the Mists. The power he wields in PoF is what he's regained since absorbing a bloodstone and Taimi's machine. He's still mega-powerful, but the Commander is also pretty freakin' powerful and using a god's own sword against him and having your own pet dragon seem to go a long way.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/74qjlh/path_of_fire_devs_here_ask_us_anything/do0hz8w/?st=j9nk3g6t&sh=4eadf480

Confirmation about Sohothin's origins it seems (and Magdaer by extension): Balthazar either created them, or owned them at some point. Or both.

Thought I'd share this with the rest of you as I add it to the wiki.

Rytlock stated that Balthazar offered to "relight" Sohothin in exchange for Rytlock freeing him. While the devs comment could easily indicate Sohothin was created by Balthazar, it is also possible that the dev meant that the sword was relit with Balthazar's power and not necessarily initially created by him.

@Crinn.7864 said:Rytlock stated that Balthazar offered to "relight" Sohothin in exchange for Rytlock freeing him. While the devs comment could easily indicate Sohothin was created by Balthazar, it is also possible that the dev meant that the sword was relit with Balthazar's power and not necessarily initially created by him.

Being relit by Balthazar shouldn't imply too much, since he didn't have that much power to begin with while he was locked.

I did believed sohothin and magdaer held some connection to balthazar, both swords being powerfuls fire weapons, it could be interpreted that balthazar, the god of war and fire, created them as gifts for ascalon.

Another discussed point was the sword's being "powered up" at the commander's hand, though I do believe the sword got a little powered up after being rekindled by balthazar, I don't think its power at the hands of our protagonist is normal, as in the hands of Rytlock it doesn't seem to visually burst with power, I believe this happened because of the commander's connection with aurene as her champion, which allowed her magic to feed the sword and thus making it able to do those crazy skills and getting that particular powered up skin.

Wait...what? It's one thing if this lore is in the game but somewhat hidden away (like the lore in the lore books), but if we're only finding out about this through a dev mentioning it offhand in a reddit thread, ANet has failed with story delivery big-time.

The entire middle section of PoF (I'm thinking the lack of story instances in the Desolation) screams of "cut content". If I had to guess I'd say this plot point was cut from the game and /u/Anet-Connie didn't realise.

EDIT: Just reread the dialogue for the Beast of War mission. There's this exchange at the part when Rytlock gives the Commander his sword:

Rytlock Brimstone: "I got us into this mess over Sohothin, but you can get us out of it."Rytlock Brimstone: "Thinking back, I now know what Kormir meant. "Undo this wrong. The means are in your grasp." You should have it."Commander: "No. Sohothin is yours."Rytlock Brimstone: "The only thing that matters is stopping Balthazar. When he sees you're not dead, he'll turn his full fury on you and no one else."Rytlock Brimstone: "He won't expect you to have it, which makes this our best hope."

Seems that by this point in the game, our characters are aware that Sohothin is Balthazar's weakness. Pretty disgraceful that this is never communicated to players.

@Tamias.7059 said:Wait...what? It's one thing if this lore is in the game but somewhat hidden away (like the lore in the lore books), but if we're only finding out about this through a dev mentioning it offhand in a reddit thread, ANet has failed with story delivery big-time.

The entire middle section of PoF (I'm thinking the lack of story instances in the Desolation) screams of "cut content". If I had to guess I'd say this plot point was cut from the game and /u/Anet-Connie didn't realise.

the lack in history mode of something related to Mount Jackal is a clue. Each piece of the story features a mount, but this only up to the skimmer.

The thing I want to know is... does the sword just naturally power me up?Because the whole fight with the War Machine and then Balthazar himself I used my own weapons and didn't use Sohothin as I was barely doing anything with it.That and it got me killed too many times before then.

@Tamias.7059 said:Wait...what? It's one thing if this lore is in the game but somewhat hidden away (like the lore in the lore books), but if we're only finding out about this through a dev mentioning it offhand in a reddit thread, ANet has failed with story delivery big-time.

The entire middle section of PoF (I'm thinking the lack of story instances in the Desolation) screams of "cut content". If I had to guess I'd say this plot point was cut from the game and /u/Anet-Connie didn't realise.

+1 to your comment, but in an attempt to play devil's advocate...

Perhaps what the author of that comment meant to say is that Balthazar relighting a sword with "god magic" makes it a part of him, therefore it is now a "god's sword" and that somehow translates to making it his weakness. Like treats like, and all that.

I don't necessarily agree that it's clear enough to count as proper foreshadowing but that was probably the idea in their head that they were hoping would translate to the screen.

This really should have been fleshed out in the story properly. Another oversight it seems.

Thanks for pointing it out Konig

Its Magdaer still MIA?

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Its Magdaer still MIA?Yes, no word since its rescue from the Catacombs. It must take a lot of time to repair a sword like that.

Given the writers' clear interest on their own Elder Dragon plot over anything related to the gods at all, I'd wager this is still a very minor point. The major factor playing into the PC facing Balthazar head on is that the PC, at that time, has finally bonded with Aurene (or rather, Aurene probably learned it herself) and became a proper dragon champion (corrupted in a sense?).

Konig hi-lighting that remark is on the spot...both Sohothin and Magdaer were gifts to Ascalonian royalty given to them before the Exodus of the Gods(from GW1 Wiki), I'd say that this tied in with the statement from the reddit AMA points to them being given to the Ascalonian royalty by Balthazar. Keep in mind, when he relit Sohothin in the Mists he was supposedly already stripped of his powers by the other gods...so how did he relight it?, and with what powers?

He probably had a very small amount of power left. Even a small spark can start a forest fire. I imagine it wouldn’t take much to relight the sword.

Or maybe he was the one in the first place who extinguished it. Took its fire, probably hoping that he would be able to get free. I suppose it didn't work on its own (makes sense to chain a former god of fire with fire-resistant chains). When Rytlock arrived Balthy offered to relight the blade, and as to return the favor Rytlock cut off the chains. (It wasn't an actual deal between Rytlock and Balthazar, it was a favor returned. Rytlock never asked for the price, he probably just assumed what the nameless prisoner wanted.)

What I'm more interested in is how did Sohothin land so close to Balthazar, and why would the Foefire cleansing ritual do this. Did the ritual try to tap into Balthazar's power that was no longer available (new god of fire and war already left along with the others except Kormir), and so the blade was just... sucked to the closest thing, that being Balthazar himself? I wouldn't think Balthy in his chained state would be able to manipulate the ritual as it is performed...

@lakdav.3694 said:Or maybe he was the one in the first place who extinguished it. Took its fire, probably hoping that he would be able to get free. I suppose it didn't work on its own (makes sense to chain a former god of fire with fire-resistant chains). When Rytlock arrived Balthy offered to relight the blade, and as to return the favor Rytlock cut off the chains. (It wasn't an actual deal between Rytlock and Balthazar, it was a favor returned. Rytlock never asked for the price, he probably just assumed what the nameless prisoner wanted.)

What I'm more interested in is how did Sohothin land so close to Balthazar, and why would the Foefire cleansing ritual do this. Did the ritual try to tap into Balthazar's power that was no longer available (new god of fire and war already left along with the others except Kormir), and so the blade was just... sucked to the closest thing, that being Balthazar himself? I wouldn't think Balthy in his chained state would be able to manipulate the ritual as it is performed...

It's also possible that the Fissure of Woe was the intended destination for the Foefire ghosts after they were released from Tyria - after all, having spent their time as ghosts in constant conflict, the FoW seems like a fitting enough final destination.

A direct link between Balthazar and the swords could explain both the opening of a portal to the mists and the landing of Sohothin so close to Balthazar. A lot of the following is just unsupported speculation, so take it with a grain of salt.

In the storystep 'Plan of Attack' Rytlock tells us his research shows that the swords and the ritual he will perform all originated from the gods. It would make sense then that the swords were forged by Balthazar and his magic. When Magdaer was used to create the Foefire, it was Balthazar's magic that made that possible. Perhaps there is even a direct link between the 'God of War' and the state of the Ascalonian ghosts, who will keep on fighting their war until the curse is lifted. (It would then also be interesting to see if Balthazar's defeat will change the current state of the Ascalonian ghosts.)

I'm no expert on literature, but to me it seems the source of a curse often also can lift it. When Rytlock performed the ritual the magic involved in the curse was redirected back to the source. That source was not on Tyria but in the mists, hence the portal to the mists and it opening next to Balthazar. It could even be that the amount of magic that was returned to Balthazar by the ritual was the magic he used to relight Sohothin, explaining how Balthazar could do that after he was striped of everything.

@lakdav.3694 said:Or maybe he was the one in the first place who extinguished it. Took its fire, probably hoping that he would be able to get free. I suppose it didn't work on its own (makes sense to chain a former god of fire with fire-resistant chains). When Rytlock arrived Balthy offered to relight the blade, and as to return the favor Rytlock cut off the chains. (It wasn't an actual deal between Rytlock and Balthazar, it was a favor returned. Rytlock never asked for the price, he probably just assumed what the nameless prisoner wanted.)Balthazar might've been the one to extinguish the blade, but I don't know if he had a great plan of hoping the wielder would come find it and free him. Also, the way the story is told implies that Balthazar offered to reignite the blade without asking for anything in return, and Rytlock chose to free him, but perhaps there was an agreement made that he'd relight the sword in exchange for being freed. Not sure if this makes a difference, as it's a footnote in the whole story.What I'm more interested in is how did Sohothin land so close to Balthazar, and why would the Foefire cleansing ritual do this. Did the ritual try to tap into Balthazar's power that was no longer available (new god of fire and war already left along with the others except Kormir), and so the blade was just... sucked to the closest thing, that being Balthazar himself? I wouldn't think Balthy in his chained state would be able to manipulate the ritual as it is performed...It's also possible that it was a coincidence it landed so close to him. Given narrative structure, this is unlikely, but it's possible. I don't know if the reason why is that important, though, even if he did forge or once own it. Maybe in Season 4, we'll learn more about these twin swords at long last, but I'm betting their significance is over for now, and we won't get new answers for a while.