How about making Regeneration stack intensity?

Maybe I'm just happening upon the wrong people or something, but most people I see say that Regeneration has a trivial impact, and can be basically disregarded in build considerations. But what if it worked more like the damaging conditions, where getting it from multiple sources doesn't just prolong the tiny ticks of green, but actually piles up and allows for an appreciable amount of health recovery? Classes with lots of Regeneration sources would have a tad bit more "spike" healing, which is typically preferred, and Regeneration applications wouldn't be overwhelmingly wasted in group scenarios.

Yes please, this would be awesome.

Not sure, I can see Druid or Ele stacking so much regeneration, so much heal per tick, that it would be absolutely unkillable in PvP.

@Alatar.7364 said:Not sure, I can see Druid or Ele stacking so much regeneration, so much heal per tick, that it would be absolutely unkillable in PvP.

In that consideration, I would say cap it to 3 or 5 stacks. This would, of course, require some tweaking to how much Regeneration gives. (Starting thought, lower base by 50-60% and rely on healing power to make up the difference? I wouldn't mind seeing some modeling with it and might play with some numbers as samples.)

The big problem with Regeneration right now in group play is that the duration stacking can push out useful, more powerful regen in favor of someone else's longer, less useful one. In situations where Regen can be dropped consistently (like with Inspiring Battle Standard), those can interfere with attempts from more powerful healers to perform.And Regen in general just isn't a strong healing effect, healing three digits in scenarios that exhibit four to five digits of damage. Giving it the opportunity to, in short and coordinated bursts, tip toward four-digit healing could stand as a suitable reward for grouping up and keeping coordinated.

Then there's just the argument of parity. Poison stacks and is the natural counter to Regen, so why not stack Regen (to a limited degree)?

Why not make it like Vitality -> Barrier and lock it behind available Healing Power? You can stack up Regeneration to X amount depending on your Healing Power.

@Nyel.1843 said:Why not make it like Vitality -> Barrier and lock it behind available Healing Power? You can stack up Regeneration to X amount depending on your Healing Power.

Curious!So, have Regen gather a value based on the caster's healing power instead of stacks, and it depletes to heal slowly per second, related to the users Healing Power?I like it~

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@Nyel.1843 said:Why not make it like Vitality -> Barrier and lock it behind available Healing Power? You can stack up Regeneration to X amount depending on your Healing Power.

Tbh I haven't thought about it in detail. There are several ways it could work, something as you mentioned:

(numbers are made up and just for explanatory purpose)

Version 1: Base regeneration is 10.000 over 10 seconds (10 ticks a 1000) - every 5000 Healing Power the base regeneration increases by 20% but not instantly, over time, to be something like this: 1. 1000 - 2. 1200 - 3. 1440 - 4. 1680 - 5. 2000 - 6. 2400 - 7. 2900 etc. (this could be too strong)

Version 2: Base regeneration is 10.000 over 10 seconds (10 ticks a 1000) - every 5000 Healing Power the base regeneration increases by 20% for every tick: 1. 1200 - 2. 1200 - 3. 1200 for a total amount of 12.000 healing over 10 seconds.

Version 3: Base regeneration is 10.000 over 10 seconds (10 ticks a 1000) - every 5000 Healing Power there will be one additional tick within the timeframe of 10 seconds (11.000 healing over 10 seconds via 11 ticks so the time between ticks is reduced and instead of every 1 second it heals every 0,9 seconds): 1. 1000 - 2. 1000 - 3. 1000 ... - 11. 1000

Version 4: like Version 1 but in the opposite order - the strongest tick comes first and healing amount diminishes over time (so the 10. tick will heal for 1000)

Verion 5: similar to V3 but with a different approach: instead of adding more ticks you keep the amount of ticks but reduce the duration (instead of 10.000 healing over 10 seconds with 10 ticks it will be 10.000 healing over 9 seconds (with 5000 Healing Power) via 10 ticks etc.)

This way it would make support/healing builds stronger but wouldn't have too much effect on pure DPS builds.

(I mean right now it's working like V2, right? It could be tweaked to work other ways to make it better)

@Nyel.1843 said:Why not make it like Vitality -> Barrier and lock it behind available Healing Power? You can stack up Regeneration to X amount depending on your Healing Power.

It would not overlap with barrier, since barrier prevents damage as it happens, while regeneration recovers health after it happens.

Ideally your own vitality would determine how much regeneration you can accumulate, and the healing power of those giving renegeration to you would determine how fast it will heal you. By having that cap determined by vitality, we prevent over-stacking of too much healing from regeneration, and it'll be a value that can be adjusted for balance.

So it could actually work like that.

@Alatar.7364 said:Not sure, I can see Druid or Ele stacking so much regeneration, so much heal per tick, that it would be absolutely unkillable in PvP.

That's a valid concern. I decided to throw together a build for each of them entirely focused on Regeneration and Healing Power to see how bad it might be. Here's the disorganized mess that I assembled as I was calculating everything:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJBHhdyjIULI2LI4KIw1CWIFKY88B4ouDAA-jlRDQB7RPALVCqi9HGmyPMp+DAeAABAOAev7Bw7v/+7v/eb/+7v/+7v/+7v/epA8bYE-w

Call of the Wild: 15.75 / 24 - 0.66Water Spirit: 4.75 / 3 - 1.6Protect Me: 15.75 / 24 - 0.66Guard: 15.75 / 24 - 0.66Sic 'Em: 15.75 / 32Strength of the Pack: 15.75 / 60 - 0.26Rejuvenation trait: 8 / 10 - 0.8Rune of Dwayna 1: 15.75 / 45 - 0.45Rune of Dwayna 2: 8 / 10 - 0.8

Ranger maximum uptime: 639%Health per second: 2428.2

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJBLhdSxA05A24A4fJwhJWOBM3x6ZdtSMBCAKAA-jlRDQBsUJIAeAAYS9nhp8bP6BUx+DBAOAev7Bw7v/+7v/eb/+7v/+7v/+7v/epA8bYE-w

Overload Water: 22.5 / 17.5 - 1.3Attune to Water: 8.75 / 17.5 - 0.5Water Trident: 5.25 / 20 - 0.26Overload Earth: 8.75 / 17.5 - 0.5Sand Squall: 8.75 / 30 - 0.29Tidal Surge: 13.75 / 35 - 0.39Glyph of Elemental Harmony: 17.25 / 20 - 0.86Lightning Flash: 10.5 / 32 - 0.33Cleansing Fire: 10.5 / 32 - 0.33Feel the Burn: 8.75 / 25 - 0.35Rebound : 8.75 / 75 - 0.12Soothing Ice: 15.75 / 20 - 0.79Rune of Dwayna 1: 17.25 / 45 - 0.38Rune of Dwayna 2: 8.75 / 10 - 0.88

Elementalist maximum uptime: 649%Health per second: 2466.2

Not sure if that makes sense to anyone, but basically, Ranger and Elementalist could both theoretically manage an uptime of just about 650% on Regeneration, which is essentially 6.5 Regeneration stacks at all times. With the 1996 Healing Power from a pretty thoroughly bad bunch of equipment choices that are focused on Regeneration effectiveness to the exclusion of all else, each stack gives 380 health per second, resulting in the totals listed. Those amounts would most certainly be broken with a normal build, but take a look for yourself at how much has to be sacrificed to get those totals. Not just in equipment, but skill choices. And not just skill choices, but the fact that those skills need to be used immediately off of cooldown in order to give that level of Regeneration, without saving the skills for when they might be most useful.

I'm seeing a number of Thumbs Downs on most of the posts here. :( Would the thumber care to voice their thoughts on why intensity-stacking Regeneration is a bad idea?

I'm seeing a number of Thumbs Downs on most of the posts here. :( Would the thumber care to voice their thoughts on why intensity-stacking Regeneration is a bad idea?

I agree on this! Why "Thumbs down" without elaborating what you dislike?

@Nyel.1843 said:

I'm seeing a number of Thumbs Downs on most of the posts here. :( Would the thumber care to voice their thoughts on why intensity-stacking Regeneration is a bad idea?

If I had to hazard a guess, it would mostly be from the following lines of thought:

1. Anti-bunker PvP/WvW players. (Valid concern, which is why balancing this is important to its discussion.)
2. "Raids/Game should be hard" folks who see stacking regen as leaking "easy mode" into the game. (But rewarding coordination is good?)
3. Status quo.

@Toolbox.9375Thanks for detailing those regen numbers!...and YEESH, @Alatar.7364 had a legit concern. I'm definitely in favor of some kind of a capping mechanism after seeing that.

So piggybacking off @MithranArkanere.8957 's idea:

• Regeneration is a single status that holds a value of healing based on Regeneration received boons. Higher HealPow from Regen givers gives more potential healing. Regen has no duration, but expires when its healing amount is expended.
• Per second, Regen gives a specific percentage of Max HP. (For balance purposes, this value can be tweaked or even split by game mode.) Higher Vitality yields more HP/second from Regen. Currently thinking 2% to 5%, probably closer to 2%.
• If the stored Regeneration value needs some kind of a cap, the user's Vitality or Healing Power can be used as a determinant.

Maybe for PvE (non-raid), but this would break pvp and wvw. As it stands now, people just stand under arrow carts unkillable, stacking regen would just make the blobs that much more invincible.

I'm all about regen stacking intensity! Why should the counter condition Poison be able to stack intensity? Regardless of healing power, regen does feel weak. Yes please!

@Ubi.4136 said:Maybe for PvE (non-raid), but this would break pvp and wvw. As it stands now, people just stand under arrow carts unkillable, stacking regen would just make the blobs that much more invincible.

Not if you cap it based on vitality like they did with barrier. There has to be limits to everything. So instead being capped by the number of boons you receive, potentially losing healing if someone with low healing power gives you regen, the cap would be based on your vitality. Allowing all sources of regen to stack up to that cap.

So, in short, it could be like this:

• All regend stacks, up to a cap.
• Vitality determines the max regen you can accumulate.
• Healing power from those who give the regen determines how fast it can go.

If there's too much healing, the cap be reduced. If it works too fast, its scaling from healing power can be reduced.By having these moving parts you have tools to keep it balanced.

regen is strong over time. it is just about the highest heals per minute in high healing power builds. having stacking regen could possibly be better if a ton of things were tweaked, but it would take a bit of time and I'm not so sure adding more broken builds would be good right now. maybe after the dust settles with the new expac.

I'd love this. Put a cap on how many stacks you can have, then revert additional stacks into duration so it doesn't go into obscene numbers, but as it is regen isn't very effective and could use a tweak functionally.

Wouldn't that make it overpowered??You have minstrel geared characters mostly eles that are really stubborn to die in WvW any more healing benefit would be close to god mode :p

@Zephyria.6103 said:I'd love this. Put a cap on how many stacks you can have, then revert additional stacks into duration so it doesn't go into obscene numbers, but as it is regen isn't very effective and could use a tweak functionally.

I really would cap at 3 if nothing else were changed. That's 390 + a bunch of individual healing power mixed in. Per second. For a low health character, that's ~3% Max HP per second, with no healing power. I'd suspect that regen durations would come down on skills across the board. That's why I started thinking about the idea I had above instead, where Regen contains a certain healing value and distributes steadily over time. Less system fuss overall, I think.

I'd absolutely love it if regen stacked, making some builds viable using regen as your healing strategy. Not the same but on similar thought, that's what I really enjoyed on my thief, the healing when you attack because it gave the feel similar to a regeneration build would.

In GW1 I tended to run a Derv/war build that was heavy on regn and totally loved it. I constantly wish there was some way to play that style in GW2.

has the potential to be an absolute nightmare for PvP balance.

regn is 283 per second on Druid with Menders and Water runes. 4 stacks of rgn would not be hard for the druid to achieve, at all. at that level they are getting over 1k hp a second plus all other healing sources. that's a big boost in sustain. over 4 stacks and you are outhealing AH and Healing Signet combined. that's a ton of healing, it would cause big issues.

imo it's bad idea. stacks would have to be capped at 2-3, which makes having it stack at all a waste of time.

My only concern with this idea is that it might necessitate a nerf to baseline regen in order to avoid OP stacking.

@choovanski.5462 said:has the potential to be an absolute nightmare for PvP balance.

regn is 283 per second on Druid with Menders and Water runes. 4 stacks of rgn would not be hard for the druid to achieve, at all. at that level they are getting over 1k hp a second plus all other healing sources. that's a big boost in sustain. over 4 stacks and you are outhealing AH and Healing Signet combined. that's a ton of healing, it would cause big issues.

imo it's bad idea. stacks would have to be capped at 2-3, which makes having it stack at all a waste of time.

Menders and Water runes sounds like the build at http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Druid_-_Bunker_Druid ? If so, maintaining 4 stacks of Regeneration is hardly viable; there are only four sources in the first place!

Heal As One: 9.5 / 20 - 0.475Protect Me: 5.5 / 24 - 0.23Strength of the Pack: 5.5 / 60 - 0.09Rejuvenation: 6.75 / 10 - 0.675

147% uptime416.01 health per second

You might be able to get over 1000 health per second for roughly five and a half seconds, but they fall off quickly. As expressed in the calculations, you'll be getting an average of 1.47 stacks across the entirety of a fight, for an average of 416.01 health per second. Helpful, but hardly insurmountable, especially considering that the build does currently benefit from a constant 283 healing per second given the duration-stacked Regeneration. It's only an increase of 133 per second overall. And those averages necessitate using/triggering each source of Regeneration off of cooldown instead of waiting for a proper moment to use it.

@Ashen.2907 said:My only concern with this idea is that it might necessitate a nerf to baseline regen in order to avoid OP stacking.

At its current level of effectiveness, it's barely there anyway. X) I certainly wouldn't mind it being a tad weaker if it meant opening up new build options and teamwork capability.

@Ashen.2907 said:My only concern with this idea is that it might necessitate a nerf to baseline regen in order to avoid OP stacking.

I took a look at it earlier today.Base Regen is 130.x3 is 390/sec. Respectable, but hardly OP.

It's the Healing Power contribution that can get out of hand if multiplied without restriction.12.5% of HealPow goes into Regen.At 1500, that's +187/sec for 317/sec per stack. 3 stacks = 951/sec. Good for some extra burst healing.Even at 1000 HealPow, that's 255/stack, 3 stacks = 765/sec. Still pretty good.

So I'm not sure baseline regen would take a huge hit, and I would expect the HealPow contribution to get trimmed.Assume 10% instead of 12.5%:1500 HealPow, 280/stack, 840/sec at 3 stacks.1000 HealPow, 230/stack, 690/sec at 3 stacks.

Keeping in mind that 3 stacks is either coordinated team effort or a single person building for it and popping cooldowns in quick succession. It'd be very corner case for a single character to build that much, and at that point, it's a build decision with associated costs. It's also prone to boon strip, corruption, and poison, so it does have a counter.

Why not just increase the base effect of regen? Stacking really only serves the purpose of making stacking builds, and regen stacking seems to fit the bunker style pattern that Anet tried to move the game away from.

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:My only concern with this idea is that it might necessitate a nerf to baseline regen in order to avoid OP stacking.

And then you get WvW blob where you can get 20 stacks, respectable and very OP :dizzy:Or many other PvE situations where you can abuse it A Lot!