Are Mounts Necessary? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Are Mounts Necessary?

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  • @jia li ng.8415 said:
    But seriously, I know in my heart nothing will be done to bring a balance to the newest members of our gaming community.

    And I know in mine that you're blowing this way out of proportion. Maybe you believe that nothing will be done because deep down you know it too and are unnecessarily outraged on behalf of people that don't even actually care.

  • @jia li ng.8415 said:
    I did not post this as "Are Mounts Necessary?" but as "Observations", How the title changed?, Why the title to this tread was changed?
    I'll attempt to restate that mounted players in level 1-15 areas are not a need, its a want, and gameplay in these zones has been disrupted.
    Whether or not anyone can or will accept that observation is their choice, and just because you haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    (we could all say the same thing about Sasquatch)

    But seriously, I know in my heart nothing will be done to bring a balance to the newest members of our gaming community.

    Yeah but what's the point of the observations? Mounts are only needed in Path of Fire maps, nowhere else. So what is the point of the observation? That's kind of a "captian obvious" observation and leads nowhere. No discussion can be had over this.

    Are mounts only not needed in 1-15 maps or are they also not needed in lvl 80 Orr maps? Did the gameplay in lvl 1-15 really get disrupted by mounts that much or do the lvl 80 players also disrupt those maps whenever there's a daily event completer there? Are HoT maps disrupted by mounts? You no longer need speed mushrooms to get places faster, or even bounce mushrooms, did the raptor and the springer disrupt HoT masteries? Getting from one event to the other in HoT meta events is now easier because you can raptor there and get it done faster, earning the whole map easier T4 completion. Is that disrupted?

    The bottom line is that your whole observation is so narrow that it really doesn't bring anything to any discussion, and even that observation is really stretched when you consider that people have been playing this game for ages and don't need mounts to wipe events, especially on high level characters. So is the observation that lvl 80 characters also aren't needed in 1-15 maps? Well no captain obvious, they are not needed. But sometimes they're there.

    This whole thread's premise is basically "there's a new thing in this game and things are different now, and i don't like change".
    Were people this philosophical about gliders too when HoT released?

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    @Suki Tomi.1903 said:
    I've only been playing Guild Wars 2 for a little over eight months, my achievements include seven level eighty characters, one with storyline and map completion. I have no intention of buying Path of Fire until I complete Living Story Two and Three. I am taking this opportunity to explore and savor the richness and diversity of Tyria. I see quite a hornets nest being stirred about mounts and from my perspective its much ado about nothing. I really do not care whether someone can ride in on a mount and take control of an event because there are events happening every few minutes and if you are patient the mounted players move on to other places and I still soldier on. To me mounts are a trophy bought not something earned and for that reason I really do not care to waste my earnings to acquire one. Such a big deal over something so worthless. I do agree that the game is not as fun as it was when I first started but who knew there was going to be an expansion. Maybe in a couple years I might buy into the idea I simply can not live without having mount but it will take a whole lot more convincing than seeing someone stealing an event. If I wait long enough I can do the same event without interruption.

    Just a comment about mounts being a trophy bought, they're really not, at least not in this game. First all all, you get your first mount pretty much for free, but other mounts require at least some effort to get, particularly the griffon mount which has to be earned by completing content in the game.

    More than that, the mounts in this game aren't just speed buffs, like they are in other games, they give you new ways to move. When you get to PoF there are areas you will not be able to reach without those mounts, just like there are areas in HoT you can't reach without gliding.

    On top of that, you have to train the masteries for the mounts, which means leveling them up which takes getting mastery points and gaining experience to unlock those abilties. Mounts in this game are truly part of the progression system and shouldn't be dismissed by your knowledge of mounts in other games. In Guild Wars 2 mounts are an entirely different animal, pun intended.

    Edit: I do agree that the OP's complaint is much to do about nothing however.

  • @jia li ng.8415 said:
    So the big complaint I'm hearing is that in 5 zones (1-15 level newbie areas) certain players desperately need to have their mounts in order to do something they should have already completed. Without being able to use their mounts in these zones they'll flounder? They'll be unable to cope, and for these blessed few we have the bow down to their whimpering.

    No, that's a strange way to misinterpret the arguments above: no one is claiming to be "desperate" or that they'll "flounder" in newbie zones.

    In particular, I'm saying that I've long since run out of ways to find the old zones fun for me; adding gliding made them more interesting again and adding mounts made them even more interesting (something that surprised me).

    If your complaint is about the knockbacks and the damage, then why not simply ask for that to be reduced (if you read up, a lot "yes, mounts" supporters above support that).

    As a PS, please try to avoid being disparaging about the people who hold views that differ from yours. It should be sufficient to make the argument that the knockbacks & mount damage have an impact on newer players and that might be something that ANet doesn't want. People would likely help figure out ways to keep mounts and address that, rather than argue with you about what the issue even is.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • SoulPariah.2856SoulPariah.2856 Member ✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    It's not a great idea to add limitations to things after you've given them to players without a reason that they themselves can understand and appreciate, otherwise they will feel slighted, and rightfully so in my opinion. In general, the concept in an open world game like this is to add incentives to return to "completed" zones, not remove them.
    Starter zones only account for 13% of the rotation for daily event completion, one could argue there is a greater benefit to new players having some veteran players around than there are downsides, and if you really want to stick to your point, you always have 4 starter cities and 3 other starter zones to work on completing/exploring, and if you do story missions, they're in instances so you're unaffected. The players working on the achievement don't have another option. They need to be in the map to complete it.
    Finally, you countered your own point by bringing up high level skills already allowing vets to zerg this content, so the issue exists regardless of the mounts.

    [Bonus side bar: "abusing", "exploiting", "deriving some sense of joy", "marketing ploy", and "cash cow" were all words/phrases you used to insert negative connotations about other players/devs' personal character and intentions. My personal opinion is that you don't have the right to do that, but since we're in the discussion forum, I'll just ask you - was there something productive you were trying to achieve by using this sarcasm and characterization, and if so, did you in fact achieve that goal? I'm not trying to be rude when I ask that, although I am defending a point; I just think it's important to think about. There is another discussion site where this is the standard way to comment, and I'd really like to see those kinds of comments stay there, and this forum be used more for productivity and constructive debate aimed to becoming a better community and improving the game. However, that's just my opinion and I can't speak for everyone.]

    WOW

    Edit:
    Then I saw this.....

    @jia li ng.8415 said:
    So the big complaint I'm hearing is that in 5 zones (1-15 level newbie areas) certain players desperately need to have their mounts in order to do something they should have already completed. Without being able to use their mounts in these zones they'll flounder? They'll be unable to cope, and for these blessed few we have the bow down to their whimpering. Get over yourselves, think of something more than yourself and how you'll be effected.

    It goes on, but...yeah......
    Forget all the niceties. This discussion should be deleted and if desired reposted without the condescension, personal attacks, and sneering judgmental attitude from OP to literally anyone who does not agree with him. OP, you're the one with the minority opinion, so I don't know what whimpering you think you're bowing to here - people are merely telling you why they disagree with your premise, You are the one who want to take away from 90% of players to give to 10% something they probably don't even care that much about, so while you're doling out all your wonderful advice why don't you take some of your own, get over yourself and stop flaming anyone who does not share you opinion. Can't give you any other advice, because I'm desperately trying not to be rude....

    www.reddit.com <-- don't know if you've heard of this cite, but I think you'd fit in well there.

    Have a great day.

  • notebene.3190notebene.3190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If the idea is to remove the mount ability damage (but keep utility, doesn't that help everyone?), or tone it down, that's fine, but I think there's some great utility in their riding (flying, jumping, leaping, teleporting) abilities that have 'nothing' to do with people that don't have them, and are quite useful for those of us who do. I actually don't ride mine all that much in lower level zones. I happen to rather enjoy meandering along a road or a countryside enjoying my characters. But when I get a Daily Lumber in Metrica Province, and the formula for the tree nodes looks something like (pseudo) "if today is zone gather day, then the closest gather node is 3,572 miles away from the zones world boss, and node proximity coefficient is plus 400 miles", then you can bet I'm going to mount up and find those nodes ASAP before I dismount and get back to enjoying myself (because honestly, if I had written the code, I would make the world boss say, "My only regret is never having become an arborist!", then they plant 4 trees quickly, and die). And no, I'm not going to go to the home instance in Rata Sum to do it because: a) I'm stubborn, b) I like my home instance in Divinity's Reach and c) I'm stubborn.

    On a side note, I've never seen a world boss when people's mounts have shut out people without them. They don't even make that much of a difference in pres? I keep seeing people use them on the 3 guys off to the side of Maw that come out before that boss guy is attackable and other than pulling them all in (which is great for my axe warrior!), they hardly do any damage to them at all, and certainly don't 'own' that event.

    Now, if someone is terrorizing you with their mount, following you around and killing all the mobs before you get there while you are trying to have fun in an event or do a heart, by all means, I think you should get to report them, and would hope they would punish them.

    In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.

  • This games "instances" everything in one way or another. It would make more sense to make the instancing break up players more based on "actual" level. If you are Level 80, then make the server NOT try and place you in the low level zones with actual low level people, when It can, while grouping the starter players with other starters more.

    I'm surprised this is not what happens already.

  • Teofa Tsavo.9863Teofa Tsavo.9863 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    Mounts will never be curtailed because they provide the thing that modern MMO players obsess about over all things... speed and time. If they progress as other games, they will become faster and faster. There will be calls to be able to do things mounted like harvesting, vistas, vendors, npc dialog, because of the "time" taken to dismount. Eventually there will be requests for combat and looting while mounted, cause "time".

    I like mounts, but I'm not in a compulsive hurry and don't bother for a lot of the game. The vast majority are in a frantic hurry. Pandora's Box has been opened, and will not be shut.

    Centuries ago, I saved Tyria. I've since realized that it is, in Arthur's words, "a silly place".

  • Squee.7829Squee.7829 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    I think the mounts were done fine and it was a tremendously good idea to make them have only one attack, then disappear, unable to be summoned again until combat is over. I think that was done specifically to prevent people "dominating " events with mounts.

    However, you bring up a good point that it DOES still happen a little. I think an easy fix will be to scale down mount damage in relevant areas. Me, as a level 80 whatever, will do about 1/4 of my normal damage in a level 20 zone. (I think that's just a gross oversimplification of the scaling system, but let's just go with it for now). However, my mount does just as much damage in Queensdale as it does in the Domain of Vabbi. It should be made to scale accordingly. That would let us keep the convenience of our mounts without making them a problem for lower level people and events.

  • I enjoy having mounts in starter areas. I've been playing this game since launch, and have run over 20 characters through the starting areas. After all that, it gets old. I know the starter areas like the back of my hand, and at this point, having a mount for when I choose to transverse those areas is very nice.
    I find myself using mounts almost constantly throughout core Tyria--much more than I use them in PoF--even though I don't technically NEED them to access anything in Core.
    It's just that, there's nothing new for me to discover in Core, so whenever I want something there, speed and efficiency is lovely to have.

  • jia li ng.8415jia li ng.8415 Member ✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    Truth is I completely agree with everyone about mounts ...Very Useful, can't live without 'em, and good tool in the toolbox
    but look at from another players perspective,

    The F2P players have absolutely no voice here, they can't comment or strike up a tread (though they can read)
    I am attempting to be that silenced voice, I see an errant newbie playing and try to see things from their eyes.

    I really can't believe that by the sacrifice of 5 lowly maps people are in such a tirade, with the expansion we got what?, oh yeah, 5 maps

    5 much more challenging maps, but it seems that level 80 players need to play in the sandbox with the level 2 newbies

    A comment made by a player in the Crystal Desert earlier this afternoon, " have you noticed Path of Fire has become a ghost town?" ... Ironic

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    @Squee.7829 said:
    I think the mounts were done fine and it was a tremendously good idea to make them have only one attack, then disappear, unable to be summoned again until combat is over. I think that was done specifically to prevent people "dominating " events with mounts.

    However, you bring up a good point that it DOES still happen a little. I think an easy fix will be to scale down mount damage in relevant areas. Me, as a level 80 whatever, will do about 1/4 of my normal damage in a level 20 zone. (I think that's just a gross oversimplification of the scaling system, but let's just go with it for now). However, my mount does just as much damage in Queensdale as it does in the Domain of Vabbi. It should be made to scale accordingly. That would let us keep the convenience of our mounts without making them a problem for lower level people and events.

    The only problem with that is that people will still complain because "players with mounts can get to events faster and finish them before i get there". While that would be ok, scaling down mount engage skills, it still won't shut up people about mounts. People just like to complain about something new and don't want to adjust to what they're used to.

  • @jia li ng.8415 said:
    Truth is I completely agree with everyone about mounts ...Very Useful, can't live without 'em, and good tool in the toolbox
    but look at from another players perspective,

    The F2P players have absolutely no voice here, they can't comment or strike up a tread (though they can read)
    I am attempting to be that silenced voice, I see an errant newbie playing and try to see things from their eyes.

    I really can't believe that by the sacrifice of 5 lowly maps people are in such a tirade, with the expansion we got what?, oh yeah, 5 maps

    5 much more challenging maps, but it seems that level 80 players need to play in the sandbox with the level 2 newbies

    That's very noble of you but they are still free players with far more limitations than just not having mounts. They do have movement skills so they can do it like we all moved before mounts. Haste and other tricks. It's not a raptor jump but it's not garbage either.

    But i'm still not seeing your point here. Who are those evil players who are harassing newbies? If this is happening, just report them, let Anet sort that out, the solution isn't to ban mounts in 1-15 areas because someone will then outgrow those areas very quickly, move on to others and start complaining about mounts in higher areas because mounts will be there. Also, remember, mounts are masteries, once you unlock them, all your character have them by default. Even my lvl 12 elementalist has a mount and i only explored the first map with him. So it's not about big bad lvl 80 bullies that come to lvl 1-15 maps for no reason, it's about Path of Fire players having something free players don't. But that's not something that can be "fixed" because it isn't broken, PoF players paid for mounts (among other things) and Anet decided they can be used almost everywhere and designed them with that in mind.

  • At the very least F2P players can enjoy growing used to their new surroundings that we somehow got bored with and once they make it into the respective towns a whole new world with dazzling creatures can open up for them. Just as when we started playing 4 years ago, we didn't need gliders or mounts, there were those who wanted them, but we didn't need them. Somehow we survived. Change is inevitable, that's why this game is so far ahead of any other game out there. Perhaps its to purist to imagine players learning the mechanics of their chosen professions in the clean world we shared so long ago.

  • @Game of Bones.8975 said:
    Why is it that no one was really upset when gliding was expanded, but mounts are driving everyone insane?
    "The mounts allow people to bypass hard parts of JPs!" So does a mesmer with help.
    "Mounts are costing me too much money!" Then don't buy the griffon or the optional skins.
    "Mounts are ..."
    Does it really take away from your enjoyment if I'm able to jump across a chasm in PvE and you can't?
    The only time a mount serves one person to the detriment of others is when a character can't reach an event before the monster/boss is killed because everyone else on mounts was there first.

    It doesn't and I'm really trying to find out why this is hurting people other than some people can afford the expansion (Mounts) and Mount Skins and some people can not andd the word "exploitation" keeps getting thrown around and words do not mean what you think they mean people

    I am going to use Springer AoE on everything thing and get world completion done EVEN FASTER

  • @jia li ng.8415 said:
    At the very least F2P players can enjoy growing used to their new surroundings that we somehow got bored with and once they make it into the respective towns a whole new world with dazzling creatures can open up for them. Just as when we started playing 4 years ago, we didn't need gliders or mounts, there were those who wanted them, but we didn't need them. Somehow we survived. Change is inevitable, that's why this game is so far ahead of any other game out there. Perhaps its to purist to imagine players learning the mechanics of their chosen professions in the clean world we shared so long ago.

    ?????

    What are you even talking about?

    If you want to enjoy a mountless world make a new account and run those maps on foot. You do you, but let's not pretend you're out here for the F2Ps or the Expansionless people okay. They didn't elect you, let it go. The events on the starter maps come back pretty fast, so even if someone does take out a mob on a mount, it'll be okay.

    You know before gliders and mounts I used to ABSOLUTELY hate Rangers for being able to kill everything before my meser could do anything. I said, hey, maybe I should get a ranger

    And I did

    If these players are suffering and can't complete the events quickly and think mounts are the key, hey well, they can get a mount but it's no necessary and we really DO NOT need game purity or mount police. We don't.

    I understand your position but please. Please.

    Please.

  • Well no one is stopping new players from exploring core tyria the way it was meant to. Especially F2P players, they literally can't explore core Tyria any other way. Which is good. They can't even get mounts before level 80 and starting PoF quest. Now there's that somewhat misguided lvl 80 boost Anet is throwing around for peolpe who buy expansions, but still, that's another issue. Where players boost their character, gain access to everything then don't know what to do and how to play, or don't even go through the journey we did when we were starting out. Their loss i say, but whatever.

  • @jia li ng.8415 said:
    Truth is I completely agree with everyone about mounts ...Very Useful, can't live without 'em, and good tool in the toolbox
    but look at from another players perspective,

    The F2P players have absolutely no voice here, they can't comment or strike up a tread (though they can read)
    I am attempting to be that silenced voice, I see an errant newbie playing and try to see things from their eyes.

    I really can't believe that by the sacrifice of 5 lowly maps people are in such a tirade, with the expansion we got what?, oh yeah, 5 maps

    5 much more challenging maps, but it seems that level 80 players need to play in the sandbox with the level 2 newbies

    A comment made by a player in the Crystal Desert earlier this afternoon, " have you noticed Path of Fire has become a ghost town?" ... Ironic

    I have an account with no gliders or mounts. I’ve never seen these players taking away my kills using mount attack skills.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • Mounts or no Mounts RANGERS ARE STILL KILLING EVERYTHING BEFORE I CAN GET TO IT.

    If you wanna ban mounts in these areas, ban rangers too. I'm sick of them and their fast kitten es running past me when I haven't collected enough HPs a yet or am on a Guardian. No rangers in 1-15 areas. Sorry rangers. I've had ENOUGH.

  • Well, as the numbers of players drop from Path of Fire, change will come, as for those who insist on playing in the kiddie sandbox with their new toys, go for it.

  • @jia li ng.8415 said:
    Well, as the numbers of players drop from Path of Fire, change will come, as for those who insist on playing in the kiddie sandbox with their new toys, go for it.

    Seriously, what are you on about?

  • LightningWolfTigerBear.6725LightningWolfTigerBear.6725 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    @jia li ng.8415 said:
    I am attempting to be that silenced voice, I see an errant newbie playing and try to see things from their eyes.

    Have you actually spoken to any of these players you're in enraged on behalf of? How many? Did any feel even half as strongly about this topic as you seem to?

    I really can't believe that by the sacrifice of 5 lowly maps people are in such a tirade, with the expansion we got what?, oh yeah, 5 maps

    The only person I've seen on a tirade in this thread is you.

  • HazyDaisy.4107HazyDaisy.4107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @jia li ng.8415 said:
    Truth is I completely agree with everyone about mounts ...Very Useful, can't live without 'em, and good tool in the toolbox
    but look at from another players perspective,

    The F2P players have absolutely no voice here, they can't comment or strike up a tread (though they can read)
    I am attempting to be that silenced voice, I see an errant newbie playing and try to see things from their eyes.

    I really can't believe that by the sacrifice of 5 lowly maps people are in such a tirade, with the expansion we got what?, oh yeah, 5 maps

    5 much more challenging maps, but it seems that level 80 players need to play in the sandbox with the level 2 newbies

    A comment made by a player in the Crystal Desert earlier this afternoon, " have you noticed Path of Fire has become a ghost town?" ... Ironic

    Im sorry, but if the F2P players ever get a voice about where paying customers can or can't use their gaming privileges then yes, I believe there would be an all out tirade on this particular matter.

    No one is stopping anyone from purchasing the game (or its expansions) and making their voices heard or discovering the world outside of these starter zones. And since Anet deemed mounts and gliders usable everywhere players that have them want to use them, and since any level character could technically go any where they want in core backwards or forwards no restrictions short of possible death for lowbies in a higher area, then it really makes no difference where people choose to take their toys or lack of or why they choose to do these things, it's their choice as a customer.

    But, being told you're not allowed to use your toys today because Johnny can't afford them or can't be bothered to support the company that let him play with generic toys free of charge when most of us weren't given that luxary when we started? That'd be a question of whose interests are we trying to protect more, people that have shown loyalty, patronage and hardwork or people that just came to the game recently and decided the past doesnt matter because it's intruding on their personal space.

    [HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination - Sorrows Furnace

  • Just a flesh wound.3589Just a flesh wound.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    @jia li ng.8415 said:
    Well, as the numbers of players drop from Path of Fire, change will come, as for those who insist on playing in the kiddie sandbox with their new toys, go for it.

    Thanks. I will.

    You know.... maybe a thread asking for a scale down of mount attacks or asking to remove the daily map events in low level maps from accounts with one level 80 would be better than attacking those who like to play as the game is designed.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

    @jia li ng.8415 said:
    Well, as the numbers of players drop from Path of Fire, change will come, as for those who insist on playing in the kiddie sandbox with their new toys, go for it.

    Thanks. I will.

    You know.... maybe a thread asking for a scale down of mount attacks or asking to remove the daily map events in low level maps from accounts with one level 80 would be better than attacking those who like to play as the game is designed.

    This. There's nothing wrong with going to starter areas as a lvl 80. I dod it when i was doing map completion. It's normal.

    I just think the mount engage skill needs a scale like the characters have and the rest should stay as it is.

    I mean, it's not hard to kill mobs in the starter areas even when starting out.

  • Just a flesh wound.3589Just a flesh wound.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    The OP is, imo, talking about a problem but he’s identified the wrong cause and wrong solution. Its not the mounts that’s the problem in low level maps. It’s that level 80s are so strong even when scaled down. Removing mounts won’t change anything. Level 80s can still outrun low levels on foot and demolish low level mobs before a low level char can get a hit with their extra skills, traits and stats

    imo if accounts with at least one level 80 no longer had the login daily events on low level maps but instead only get login daily events on maps higher than level 25 then that would solve most of the problems he’s seeing, it’s the zergs of level 80s killing on daily event days in low level maps that overwhelm low level players. The occasional high level on foot or on a mount on a low level map isn’t an issue. It’s when there’s large numbers that low levels have trouble getting a tag or getting to events in time.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • I myself only use them for movement in the beginner maps. Can understand its very annoying for new players to get the mobs in front of them tailswiped by trolling players with the raptor mount.

  • OP has been consistently, most likely intentionally, misinterpreting people wanting to retain mounts in 1-15 zones as a "desperate" desire of some sort. It's bad logic and even worse manners.

    Of course nobody ever required in the past (or presently needs) mounts to get around, make fast kills, or tag events. We'd get along fine if they were taken away. That being said, they're great for a whole range of game experience outside the extremely narrow (dare I suggest, essentially nonexistent?) use of greedily swallowing entire events before new f2p players can get to them. I do not think the benefit new/f2p players would get from mount-free maps would come anywhere close to the loss of enjoyment experienced by mounted players.

  • @Teofa Tsavo.9863 said:
    Mounts will never be curtailed because they provide the thing that modern MMO players obsess about over all things... speed and time. If they progress as other games, they will become faster and faster. There will be calls to be able to do things mounted like harvesting, vistas, vendors, npc dialog, because of the "time" taken to dismount. Eventually there will be requests for combat and looting while mounted, cause "time".
    I like mounts, but I'm not in a compulsive hurry and don't bother for a lot of the game. The vast majority are in a frantic hurry. Pandora's Box has been opened, and will not be shut.

    Unless this is September 23rd... what?
    There HAS been calls/suggestions/ideas coming up to stop us from dismounting.
    Then Arenanet said they did that because of some bug or whatever, and then a few days after that talk... or few hours... there's talks about allow us to stop being dismounted by everything.
    Not as much, but there has been people wanting to battle on mounts (I was one of them but I was more thinking of a minigame kind of situation where you get attacks to use while on mount and not actually battle itself in the open world with it.

  • personally i tried to level a new char today and every single dam time a dam kitten head on a mount wipe the area including event before anyone else was able to land hits in to get credits. I personally believe mounts should be locked into hot and pof only areas.

  • Teofa Tsavo.9863Teofa Tsavo.9863 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    @Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

    @Teofa Tsavo.9863 said:
    Mounts will never be curtailed because they provide the thing that modern MMO players obsess about over all things... speed and time. If they progress as other games, they will become faster and faster. There will be calls to be able to do things mounted like harvesting, vistas, vendors, npc dialog, because of the "time" taken to dismount. Eventually there will be requests for combat and looting while mounted, cause "time".
    I like mounts, but I'm not in a compulsive hurry and don't bother for a lot of the game. The vast majority are in a frantic hurry. Pandora's Box has been opened, and will not be shut.

    Unless this is September 23rd... what?
    There HAS been calls/suggestions/ideas coming up to stop us from dismounting.
    Then Arenanet said they did that because of some bug or whatever, and then a few days after that talk... or few hours... there's talks about allow us to stop being dismounted by everything.
    Not as much, but there has been people wanting to battle on mounts (I was one of them but I was more thinking of a minigame kind of situation where you get attacks to use while on mount and not actually battle itself in the open world with it.

    Old Forum. I don't cross reference that, nor was I aware of the thread. It appears I am correct, however.

    Centuries ago, I saved Tyria. I've since realized that it is, in Arthur's words, "a silly place".

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    @rikilamaru.5842 said:
    personally i tried to level a new char today and every single dam time a dam kitten head on a mount wipe the area including event before anyone else was able to land hits in to get credits. I personally believe mounts should be locked into hot and pof only areas.

    I had the exact opposite experience and i leveled a character to lvl 20 for the start. :confused: I just wasn't seeing anyone with a mount wipe the events before i could get to them. I was always there to at least get bronze and if i missed the event, there is always another poi, vista, heart, event somewhere close by.

    I find it hard to believe your every effort to do anything resulted in players wiping every mob with a mount and that you couldn't progress your leveling.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    @jia li ng.8415 said:
    I gave up on expecting player etiquette a few years ago, though when I receive common courtesy it is always greatly appreciated. This whine about how badly a player needs a mount in newbie zones, I wonder how the heck did you get by without them for the past three and a half years (serving cheese now)? It is not absolutely necessary at all. As previously stated, any map can be run without a mount, map completion with a mount speeds things up considerably but using a mount in 1-15 zones is ludicrous, often misused or abused.

    To be fair, your argument is childish. You are in no way disadvantaged given how ridiculously easy the content in those areas are, and any perceived gap is the result of a quirk in the scaling and new player lack of experience. Sidekicking is already overly aggressive when it comes to scaling down player stats, but it has a couple of blind spots because it can't account for the number of traits and skills high level players have access to. If they wanted to go further, they can scale the coefficients directly to "collectively" bring down the multiplicative effect they produce. However, this still doesn't impact the fact that lvl 80 players simply have access to more "stuff", more tools, and with both HOT and POF, tons and tons and tons of Boons. If there was any significant difference between low and high levels, its boon access.

    So to restate the obvious.... low level players are NOT disadvantaged. The content is tuned to provide them an appropriate challenge. A power gap with high level exists, but the only problem is that hasn't been looked at since "Leveling Experience Update" to account for higher force multiplication of the Especs.

    Now on the other side of the fence, why is there an expectation that low levels should be steam rolling a level appropriate area? I remember in 2014, after the game had been out for a while, that there being a big complaint about how the low and mid level areas were not preparing people for the difficulty spike of 60+ zones, and after level 80, there being "No Challenge" anywhere in the game. There is only one band of content from 60-75 where people had any significant challenge from the game.
    The only other consistent complaint I've ever seen on the subject is new players not knowing how to solve a problem, mechanically..... mostly because other games have trained them to stand there and spam skills as the solution to everything. I will only concede that experienced player tend to move extremely fast, making it hard for new players to see what it is their doing so they can emulate.

    Thus far, I've only been given the impression that you feel Egos are being bruised by the fact that a higher level player is doing better at the game then a low level player. And their lack of struggle is an insult to the new player. Now the defense of mounts and gliders in Tyria as a necessity is a stupid argument..... but thats just people responding to you creating the equally stupid argument of mounts being the source of the problem. Citing etiquette as a issue is also stupid, as its not going to solve the problem either. You just end up with "a hand few of people" still causing the problem instead of "anyone of high level who just happens to be there".

    See... years ago, new players were in awe of the efficiency of a higher level player in a low level zone. Not envy at the power gap, but the realization of that power being within their reach. Something worthwhile to inspire them, and having the ability to fight along side someone that can be perceived as a Hero of land. Thats something no other game I know of had ever managed to accomplish with other players. And if a new player was struggle with something, a veteran player can ease the pressure and/or show them what they're missing. Which is why it comes off as petty that now seeing a player doing better then yourself is a game breaking issue, or a personal insult. Yes it could stand to use some re-tuning..... buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutt......

    Attitude-about-the-problem.jpg

  • @rikilamaru.5842 said:
    personally i tried to level a new char today and every single dam time a dam kitten head on a mount wipe the area including event before anyone else was able to land hits in to get credits. I personally believe mounts should be locked into hot and pof only areas.

    Did you ask them nicely to stop doing it? If you did and they refused, then I do feel sorry for you, but I don't think stopping mounts in those zones because a few bad apples are being inconsiderate is a justifiable enough reason. Does it stink at times? Sure. What the OP and you are proposing is basically not allowing any cars in a school zone just because on the off chance some person will speed through and hit a kid. That's ridiculous because you can't control every person, but punishing the majority because a few are not playing nice is not good cause for your proposal.

    If Life gives you lemons, put the lemons in a sack and beat up Life for giving you lemons in the first place.

  • Coulter.2315Coulter.2315 Member ✭✭✭

    @jia li ng.8415 said:
    Truth is I completely agree with everyone about mounts ...Very Useful, can't live without 'em, and good tool in the toolbox
    but look at from another players perspective,

    The F2P players have absolutely no voice here, they can't comment or strike up a tread (though they can read)
    I am attempting to be that silenced voice, I see an errant newbie playing and try to see things from their eyes.

    I really can't believe that by the sacrifice of 5 lowly maps people are in such a tirade, with the expansion we got what?, oh yeah, 5 maps

    5 much more challenging maps, but it seems that level 80 players need to play in the sandbox with the level 2 newbies

    A comment made by a player in the Crystal Desert earlier this afternoon, " have you noticed Path of Fire has become a ghost town?" ... Ironic

    How many F2P players have asked you to be their voice? What legitimacy have you got? Are you just claiming the right to speak for these people to add weight to your single voice? You don't get to appropriate the robes of a freedom fighter just cause you think they look good on you.

    I would be happy for the to nerf/scale mount engages but I see no real reason to remove mounts entirely.

  • I have talked with F2P players in Queensdale and Wayfarers Hills about their experiences. One player said they, "were having a great time enjoying Guild Wars, and that they even liked the mounts", but they wished that they could get to an event in time. I told them about optional characters, and skills to try once they get to level 11 (telling them that Thieves P/P or SB and that Guardians Sc/Sh only have a 900 range, and then showing them the differences in range). I take my mentoring seriously, I believe in helping new players understand the game, and really try to give them the best information my experience can offer. I can play like a rabid cur when I have to, but enriching another players knowledge more rewarding.

  • Zionka.6897Zionka.6897 Member ✭✭✭

    The attack skill on mounts has no use in 1-15 zones.. People love their mounts for mobility, not their attacks. I doubt many would fuss if the attack skill was not only nerfed, but disabled while in these zones. Really though, the issue has always been there with level 80s coming in and dominating events before the little guys can get a hit in. The finger is just being pointed in another direction now is all.

  • @Just a flesh wound.3589 said:
    The OP is, imo, talking about a problem but he’s identified the wrong cause and wrong solution. Its not the mounts that’s the problem in low level maps. It’s that level 80s are so strong even when scaled down. Removing mounts won’t change anything. Level 80s can still outrun low levels on foot and demolish low level mobs before a low level char can get a hit with their extra skills, traits and stats

    Well said.

    There's a lot of people in this thread supporting the idea of reduced damage from mounts in lowbie zones, even eliminating the knockdown (again, in lowbie zones). That would resolve all of the mount-related problems the OP tried to describe. There might or might not be an additional issue that's existed since 2012: L80s are significantly more powerful than at-level toons in those same zones (but the OP isn't asking for that to be changed).

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • If the damage of the mount skills is the issue why not have it scaled to the lowest level of the area? Making starting areas mount free might be a solution but it also takes away from a veterans playing experience in there.

  • Galaa.8475Galaa.8475 Member ✭✭✭

    Dont force the ones that are ok with using mounts on low areas to not be able to use them. Their are 1000's who like it. Like what, ten or twenty of you that want it stopped. If you dont want to use them in those areas; dont. you dont like whats on t.v. , change the channel. get it? Leave kitten alone man. play your game and we get to play ours.

  • Dashiva.6149Dashiva.6149 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    I do feel occasionally that the dismount ability is slighty too strong for my taste in lower level zones and could be turned down a notch. If it is a issue with scaling that is something that we have to turn to the devs and anet to adress.

    As for is it necessary, it is all about context. Gliding wasn't necessary for Core for me, but it is nice to have. Mounts weren't necessary for Core or HoT for me, but it is nice to have. I have a friend who is not very good when it comes to anything that involves jumping and to her the mounts became necessary when she went back to collect vistas, poi and other hard-to-reach things that was neglected in the past.

    I am personally very happy that we get to use our mount everywhere because it has reinvigorated the exploration and travel in older zones. It is much more fun and enjoyable now to take the long way and/or the road less traveled rather than teleport constantly.

  • Just a flesh wound.3589Just a flesh wound.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    “I can already hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
    “kiddies sandbox”
    “makes you squirm and start convulsing, feeling that sudden urge to froth from the mouth and scream, cool”

    Comments like this don’t help your case. No one likes for their objections to be dismissed so rudely. When I read remarks of this type I automatically deduct logic points because a person who writes like this is trying to stir up negative emotions. He can’t make a logical argument for what he wants so he goes for the emotions..

    As to why I like mounts/gliding in low level zones. Well, for one thing I have low level chars and mounts/gliding helps make map completion and leveling for the Nth time more interesting. If I am on a level 80 I’m not going around killing mobs that some hapless low level is trying to tag so why should mounts/gliding be removed because you imagine some sort of problem that doesn’t exist and because you are failing to understand the real problem, which is scaling for level 80s in low level zones, not mounts.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • I knew I could evoke a response using sarcasm and candor in defense of the "want" of using mounts and gliders.
    There is no "need" in level 1-15 zones to use mounts or gliders.
    Oh, the convenience of speed in order to complete a map.

    How did we ever survive the drudgery of map completion? Seriously, how was it done in the past? Would it spoil your experience of a newly created character to have to complete all 5 level 1-15 zones without a mount? I know you can do it, you did it before ... I know that it might be an adjustment that some players would freak out about, but how about when we used to have a daily 5 with 30 choices to pick from and now we have a daily 3 with 12 choices. There was some freaking out about that as well, we all got over it and played on. Many changes have happened and many more are likely to come. Some will be recieved as great and others will be limiting.

    Get over the want ... tell me the absolute need for gliders or mounts in 1-15 zones.
    Selfish reasoning is not a good basis for your argument. If has nothing to do with new players experiencing the game firsthand as we did then explain the true need of how these level 1-15 zones simply couldn't be played now without gliders or mounts.

  • Just a flesh wound.3589Just a flesh wound.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    You still haven’t proven your case that mounts are a problem. Other people are seeing it. Until you prove it your argument is invalid and your suggestions to fix this non problem isn’t worth the forum paper it’s written on.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • And you have said nothing of "need" and therefore your comment is does nothing to address the fact that in 1-15 zones you would not be able to complete the map without your glider or mount as the crutch it has become.

  • @jia li ng.8415 said:
    So the big complaint I'm hearing is that in 5 zones (1-15 level newbie areas) certain players desperately need to have their mounts in order to do something they should have already completed. Without being able to use their mounts in these zones they'll flounder? They'll be unable to cope, and for these blessed few we have the bow down to their whimpering. Get over yourselves, think of something more than yourself and how you'll be effected. I am looking at this as something larger, as something beyond my needs. I have admitted I have been guilty of abusing gameplay for others, disregarding its overall effect on our community of gamers, but have become aware that even though I can change myself and how I play (i.e. respecting the needs of those around me and not being selfish) other individuals show no such awareness. An example would be pulling back to auto-attack as opposed to powering up my utilities and elite when involved in a daily (all it takes is one hit and voila) when lesser players are in the group. Sure it's fun to fly in Queensdale, but is it a need? Aren't there many more maps to choose from than these 5, or are you so limited in your imagination?

    OP, all the admiration for your crusade. Unfortunately, you have small chances to change anything. Because, although many of your contestants admitted during this debate that the mounts are not needed in the low level maps (I think they are not needed and nocive in all the core zones), they keep saying that using the mounts (to skip some areas, to wipe tons of mobs in one shot - the same mobs they states it gives you nothing - to dominate an environment designed for lvl 10 players etc) means fun. The thing your contestants forget is that having fun by depriving the others by their own fun is an offense (one example - by completing an event even before the other low level characters being able to arrive). In most civilized countries this offense is punished by laws. But, from their reaction I can guess that only one of the two statements can be true:

    • They live in a country different of what I understand by "most civilized countries". OR
    • They think that being in a game you can do everything you want because you will be not punished for this.

    So, OP, this is why I said I admire your efforts but you have small chances to change something. Because you have to educate the players to behave like responsible humans. This is impossible without laws stating clear punishments :# . And many times, the persons you try to educate may become aggressive.

    What is surprising me is that ANet seems to not realize the effect of the mounts in the game. The desperate maneuver with the RNG mount box shows that they felt something changed. By they try to correct this using the (holly, what a bannable wording I was close to use!!) mount owners :# . ANet knows that they (the mount owners) lack the power to see too far.

  • Just a flesh wound.3589Just a flesh wound.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    @jia li ng.8415 said:
    And you have said nothing of "need" and therefore your comment is does nothing to address the fact that in 1-15 zones you would not be able to complete the map without your glider or mount as the crutch it has become.

    I’ve completed maps in the level 1-15 zones on my alt account, no gliding or mounts. I’ve had no problems at all with other player’s mounts. The problem as defined by you doesn’t exist and your solution to this “problem” is unnecessary as there is no mount problem to be fixed.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • jia li ng.8415jia li ng.8415 Member ✭✭
    edited November 13, 2017

    Nostalgia zones would be a fond remembrance to our gaming communities humble beginnings. Where everyone was equal with a rare visitation from a few level 80's.

    If you can tell me how it has become absolutely inconceivable to enter a zone without the use of a mount or glider, how completely unimaginable it would be to go back to a simpler style of playing, on equal terms as those who are still arriving to Guild Wars 2, tell me.
    I don't need to read about your wants.

    After just witnessing a Charr Guardian on a Raptor rinse and repeat Mona's escort to Claypool it was great fun for him, I was just there watching, the 3 other players scattered after crossing the bridge, they literally gave up as the Charr mopped up all the Tamini, yeah let's take the fun out of doing an event as a group.
    Looking back on it I could have said something.

  • Arzurag.7506Arzurag.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    Reading some of these comments makes me thinking that the starter-areas are the true endgame or that they´re challenging.^^

    As a dev I would just add a proper damage-scaling to the damaging mount-abilities and the job is done.

    "I´m not big on sermons, Broken bones teach better lessons."

  • Personally, from all that I've seen in just this past week alone it appears to me that some players are using the 1-15 zones as a testing/proving ground for their utilities and their mounts. To me it makes no sense mainly because these post tutorial zones are frankly weak to start with, I mean having recently rolled a human Elemental I found I could one shot a plains wurm, an awakening elemental, or an orchard spider. I can't fathom what my Weaver would do much less my springer. How could rushing an event of no challenge be a proof of a great build?
    If these dozens of players want to check their builds the PvP area has ample targets to choose from.
    I suppose it would be far more difficult to test a build in Lake Doric than Queensdale because when they fight back you take damage.
    ...and it's not like I don't enjoy hopping on my Raptor with my level 4 Elemental buzzing the map.
    It's not needed but because I can and want to. Since all my mounts are hot keyed I dismount instead of using an attack.

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