The logic of asking previous bosses KPs.

Can someone explain the logic behind that? I mean asking for LIs or KPs of the same boss intended to fight is fine, but why having a KP of boss X should make me more expert at fighting boss Y?(That is aimed to new W5 and ppl who ask for 1st boss KP for subsequent encounters)

People want to know you're committed.

@TexZero.7910 said:People want to know you're committed.

Sorry my english is not that good, "committed" means? (google trad's translation doesn't make sense)

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:People want to know you're committed.

Dedicated to the task. Not fresh to the concept of raiding etc....

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:People want to know you're committed.

Then again why W5B1's KP should prove more skill than idk 250 LIs, matt/xera/deimos KP and/or leg armor? It makes no sense!

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:People want to know you're committed.

Some people might have 250 LI but are not committed to doing progression runs and will run away if groups don't seem to be able to do it in a few attempts. Looking for KP for the first boss of the new wing means that the person is willing to put in the time to learn instead of getting carried with other people's knowledge.

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:People want to know you're committed.

It's no more misguided than assuming that LI is a good indicator of skill. In theory, those who haven't succeeded at certain bosses are less likely to succeed at a new one. In practice, that's not anywhere reliable enough a predictor. Still, for some people, any metric is better than none.

@Azoqu.8917 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:People want to know you're committed.

I spent many tries doing first boss and I'm surely not a ragequitter (sadly my word is not a KP) but still I didn't happen to kill it yet. However I did every single boss from previous wings multiple times, why shouldn't I be allowed to join a squad for w5 encounters past 1st??

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:People want to know you're committed.

I don't disagree, just stating why people are asking for LI.

Generally speaking they feel compelled to use something as a measure to see how dedicated/committed to the task you are. It's really no different than your employer asking for references and x years experience.

Doesn't mean that the guy with no references fresh outta college is any worse than the guy with 20 employers and 3 years experience.

@Vinceman.4572 said:

1. Don't spend the time in a forum complaining. It won't help to solve your problem.
2. Don't bother. If people don't want to play with you accept it and move on. They have their right to set requirements for their own group
3. Open your own group if you can't find any other.

1. Why shouldn't I complain? Maybe it won't solve my problem, but I feel it as utterly stupid for the reasons I wrote above and I think I have the right to complain.
2. They have their right to set whatever requirement they want, but it's taking a bad direction since I see many lfg announces like that and I fear it could become the standard for many weeks before it calms down and it become a normal "X+ LIs" again. If that will happen, doing W5 for the 1st time will be hell even for veteran raiders who didn't manage to clear it on first week.
3. Save me that. Whenever someone on the forum complain about lfg requirements this answer is always a must, well, big news, we already knew that and maybe we are complaining for other reasons.

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

1. Don't spend the time in a forum complaining. It won't help to solve your problem.
2. Don't bother. If people don't want to play with you accept it and move on. They have their right to set requirements for their own group
3. Open your own group if you can't find any other.

1. Why shouldn't I complain? Maybe it won't solve my problem, but I feel it as utterly stupid for the reasons I wrote above and I think I have the right to complain.

Because you are complaining to way different people. That's like complaining to your gardener that your car doesn't work. You might get some sympathy but essentially you'll get 0 help concerning your problem.

@Zaraki.5784 said:

2. They have their right to set whatever requirement they want, but it's taking a bad direction since I see many lfg announces like that and I fear it could become the standard for many weeks before it calms down and it become a normal "X+ LIs" again. If that will happen, doing W5 for the 1st time will be hell even for veteran raiders who didn't manage to clear it on first week.

What is a normal requirement of LIs for a boss which is not on mass farm yet? People are trying as best they can to build a stable group for serious tries.

Also yes, getting W5 going as a weekly farm will be quite tedious. W4 still has regular issues on Deimos and previous wings with their endbosses too. Wing 4s bosses 1-3 were just terribly easy which made the entire process of getting them farm ready easy. Most people skip Deimos on 4 exactly because they can't be bothered.

@Zaraki.5784 said:

3. Save me that. Whenever someone on the forum complain about lfg requirements this answer is always a must, well, big news, we already knew that and maybe we are complaining for other reasons.

See that's your problem. You are complaining about others who are investing time into creating a group according to their specifications in an attempt to overcome the content, yet you yourself can't be kittened into starting your own group.

Be the voice of reason and change, make your own group with 0 requirements and succeed, then come back and brag about it here. Until then, let people play however they want, especially the ones who managed to write a couple of letter of text into a LFG field and that are actively managing their own group.

@Azoqu.8917 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:People want to know you're committed.

This makes no sense at all. OP is talking about needing KP B1 for B2 in the new wing. If he would not be dedicated into prog runs, he would never ever run W5 in the first week...To me it makes no sense, but people make no sense to me all the time...

Get used to it, many people are dumb. You can't change that, but you can avoid them. Ask yourself, do you really need to be raiding with such individuals?

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

1. Don't spend the time in a forum complaining. It won't help to solve your problem.
2. Don't bother. If people don't want to play with you accept it and move on. They have their right to set requirements for their own group
3. Open your own group if you can't find any other.

1. Why shouldn't I complain? Maybe it won't solve my problem, but I feel it as utterly stupid for the reasons I wrote above and I think I have the right to complain.

@Zaraki.5784 said:

2. They have their right to set whatever requirement they want, but it's taking a bad direction since I see many lfg announces like that and I fear it could become the standard for many weeks before it calms down and it become a normal "X+ LIs" again. If that will happen, doing W5 for the 1st time will be hell even for veteran raiders who didn't manage to clear it on first week.

@Zaraki.5784 said:

3. Save me that. Whenever someone on the forum complain about lfg requirements this answer is always a must, well, big news, we already knew that and maybe we are complaining for other reasons.

Why you don't understand? I just complain about requiring W5's KP, you can ask as many LIs as you want, I have them.

@Zunki.3916 said:

@Azoqu.8917 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Zaraki.5784 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:People want to know you're committed.

Exactly, thank you for understanding. Sadly yes since I'm not part of a static group I need to pug my way and those individuals are the only ones around lfg :S

Oh all I do is pugging, don't understand me wrong. I'm only at around 70 Li right now, all through pugs and training runs and so on.

What I mean is, if people act that stupid I often tell myself that maybe it's better not to run with this pug, as they don't seem to fit my taste anyway. There are other pugs... And sometimes there is no pug but that's the good and bad thing about pugging: You are not on a schedule.

If I make a LFG saying „W5 pink haired asura only” and you join as whatever else, I have every right to kick you. Will it upset you? Probably. Will I care? No.

The argument about making your own LFG is given, because people can’t be bothered to read LFGs or just plain refuse to adhere to the requirements.

If I want to raid with pink haired asura and I make the LFG, it’s my right to kick whoever does not adhere to this. Plain and simple.

Don’t ask for an explanation for why people want to x y or z.

What’s more. People with leggy armor, 9000 Li and whatever quit regular runs after one or two attempts, so i’d rather have someone who is new to raiding but has killed the new boss after release, rather than a „pro” who might be looking for an easy kill/carry

@Zunki.3916 said:This makes no sense at all. OP is talking about needing KP B1 for B2 in the new wing. If he would not be dedicated into prog runs, he would never ever run W5 in the first week...And yet he has no KP for the first boss. If he was really dedicated, he wouldn't skip the hard part to do the events behind it.

Basically, while the wing is still in research mode and not yet on farm status, people prefer to group with players that put at least the same amount of effort they themselves did. It's a way to eliminate people that got their LIs by doing only the easier bosses, for example. Or people that give up/are easily disappointed once they fail a few times.Or at least that's what i assume the thinking behind the requirement was.

@Zaraki.5784 said:Why you don't understand? I just complain about requiring W5's KP, you can ask as many LIs as you want, I have them.

They don't want your LIs. They want you to have W5 experience to the most possible extent so far which is - for them - having the fist boss already killed. That group didn't want to try the event afterwards for the first time or with a player who is new in this raid. I don't understand why you can't accept this - like Cyninja already said. (Ty for that post btw.)Your next mistake is that you translate this behaviour to all groups out there and fear a dramatic change in group requirements. Calm down, won't happen. It's the same as always. The wing is new, ofc good groups only want dedicated players at best with first successful steps on the new encounters.

@Zaraki.5784 said:Exactly, thank you for understanding. Sadly yes since I'm not part of a static group I need to pug my way and those individuals are the only ones around lfg :S

If you don't have a static you often have to rely on many pug groups for a first kill. With a new wing a lot is repeating: Find a good composition and hit your head against the wall.Additionally, always remember: Raids weren't meant to be pugged so yeah, it will be a hard time at the beginning to be successful in pugs but this is intended. Otherwise raids wouldn't be challenging at all. Only because you have farmed the other wings so far - which is no difficulty at all and 6-9 people can easily carry average players to 250LI and more week per week - nobody knows about your actual dedication and skill level.

And the argument is still present: If you want something really hard in this game do something for it. There is no excuse to not open an own group in the lfg besides for health reasons. Take your xxx LI+ and start it. You want to pug? Go ahead and lead your own if there's no appropriate group that is willing to take you with them.

Enough, what I understood is that arguing is pointless, thanks to all who answered. You can close the topic.

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Zunki.3916 said:This makes no sense at all. OP is talking about needing KP B1 for B2 in the new wing. If he would not be dedicated into prog runs, he would never ever run W5 in the first week...And yet he has no KP for the first boss. If he was really dedicated, he wouldn't skip the hard part to do the events behind it.

Why not? Maybe he want to try different parts of the new wing, I kinda feel that way too, after struggling to beat boss 1 many times without success it's just normal to move on and try different encounters.

@Susy.7529 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Zunki.3916 said:This makes no sense at all. OP is talking about needing KP B1 for B2 in the new wing. If he would not be dedicated into prog runs, he would never ever run W5 in the first week...And yet he has no KP for the first boss. If he was really dedicated, he wouldn't skip the hard part to do the events behind it.

Because it’s everyone’s right to require what they want and the OP just does not care about that, because he has soooo many Li...

By that logic I could be a pro raider with 200li just because i’ve cleared W1 over and over.

@Susy.7529 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Zunki.3916 said:This makes no sense at all. OP is talking about needing KP B1 for B2 in the new wing. If he would not be dedicated into prog runs, he would never ever run W5 in the first week...And yet he has no KP for the first boss. If he was really dedicated, he wouldn't skip the hard part to do the events behind it.

Understandable, but many other players who have completed the first boss feel like they want someone who has progressed to their state in the raid.

What does KP of the first boss prove? Not much besides the fact that you were able to overcome the first challenge of the wing and unlike LI you were not able to stock up on easy bosses over a long period of time.

Does it make sense to ask for the KP? Depends on what you are asking for. If your goal is to only get the most dedicated players, then yes because any other proof can be undermined (massive LI via easy bosses over time, buying kills, etc.). The wing 5 boss 1 kill proof is the only thing which currently shows you are likely among the top echelon of the raiding community via either a static group or very good PUG.

Will this change as time passes? Sure it will, it has in the past.

Will wing 5 get cleared as much as Wing 4? Doubtful but who knows. I know of a lot of PUG players who skip Matthias, Xera and Deimos simply because they find the fights to hard or the amount of time required to find a PUG that beats the encounter does not justify the time invested.

You need experience to gain experience... or... kill proof in this case. best logic right there

@GWMO.4785 said:You need experience to gain experience... or... kill proof in this case. best logic right there

Or you can open your own LFG ;)

The reason is because they are looking for like minded individuals. Maybe I am only speaking for myself and ALL of my friends who raid. 250LI doesn't mean 250 instant kills, it means days and days worth of effort spent only to wipe, it means at least double their LI in boss kills because raiders who raid after the 150 required for armor actually enjoy it lol, it means we have mastered many different classes and many different roles and we have an in depth understanding of all of the different class mechanics and we have a very clear and comprehensive of all all of the extremely precise interactions that make the meta so powerful.

You say it's impossible to know that 100% from 250li when referring to a total stranger. Honestly you're right, if you join and you have 250LI and you perform poorly then we don't discriminate against you any less lol. It matters though because the likelihood of a bad joining is much less.It means less wipes required to find good players, that's crucial because it helps maintain good spirits amongst the current squad members and we waste less time on things that don't matter.

Like @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said, "any metric is better than no metric." Just play the LI game, if you don't want to don't whine about it, just make your own squad and set your own rules lol.