LS Season 4 - Is the story a complete joke now? [Spoilers]

-This contains spoilers-

And I don't mean joke as in an insult - although maybe I should.I mean that the story in LS4 is so over abundantly filled with bad one line attempts at humor it hurts. I get it - you're trying to make it more funny.The problem comes when nearly EVERY line of "serious" dialogue has to have some "funny" 1-line "joke" attached to it.It's okay to do it every now and then. GW1 did this every now and then and it was well received because it was the spicing that gave the rest of the game flavor. In comparison what we have with the latest LS episode is just spicing in a bowl. Nothing else almost.

And it might work SOMETIMES but the issue appears when it undermines the narrative build-up of tension. How can I feel the stakes are high and that we're fighting against the odds when there's constantly some pirate complaining about back pain and carrying something heavy.

I get the (already overdone in every form of media out there) joke about "not rushing the explosives guy" is something they just had to use - but did they have to do it three times in rapid succession? We got it the first time - har har - very funny - why does it repeat 2 more times?

That's the kind of stuff that's making the story really unpalatable for me - and it's sad because I want to like the story. I want to like the characters. I want to get immersed in GW2's narrative like I once did with GW1. But I just can't.

On paper it should look good - take the bit where Joko's forces are starving the people in Istan - that's pretty horrible and something you can invest in emotionally - maybe even care - but nope - the story is so filled with funny one liners you can't really feel any of that.Or take another moment - where we just saved Taimi from certain death. You'd expect something other than "I've never been so glad to smell dead people". It completely ruins immersion.And let's not forget PoF's magical : Is the commander dead? Can I poke him with a stick? Taimi moment.

More and more the story feels more and more like a sitcom but without the laughter track.

Did you not see the dialog previous to this? It's always been terrible.I don't know how anyone could find immersion with the story at all anyway, with the bizarre personality they give the users character. I usually have the sound off and don't really pay attention to the story anymore because the characters and dialog completely ruin it.

If a Sylvari eats a salad, is it cannibalism?

(I like the jokes, each to their own, I'm also a fan of Quip, Dreamer and The Moot though)

@MrRuin.9740 said:Did you not see the dialog previous to this? It's always been terrible.I don't know how anyone could find immersion with the story at all anyway, with the bizarre personality they give the users character. I usually have the sound off and don't really pay attention to the story anymore because the characters and dialog completely ruin it.

I guess it was the last drop. I could barely get the story done.

Canach, that's his character, he's sarcastic, to a fault...so that almost everything he says will sound sarcastic, and that's exactly what he sounded like when planting the explosives, not funny but sarcastic. If you don't like the ambient characters speech, just tune it out...in this day and age I much prefer the lighter bits of conversation and ambient speech then I do disheartening speech...it's a game, most people play them to get away from bad news...even if that's at the expense of serious talk. By the way, I thought Taimi's line at the end was appropriate since she was almost one of those dead people.

I think it's a very Taimi thing to say. What would really worry me if everyone in Dragon's Watch had the same sense of humor and there was no serious figure to balance it out. Rox and Braham are pretty serious folks and Rox has a dry wit. Taimi says weird things at inappropriate times and Rytlock is the grouchy adult in a party of children. Canach and Rytlock rib each other as fellow soldiers often do in their down time. Of course, soldiers should also know when to shut up and focus on the mission when lives are on the line so stop making one-liners when bullets are flying past.

Tbh the entire personal store for the whole game is like this - and that's kind of why I like it - it's lighthearted and doesn't take itself seriously (especially being an asura main and having experienced all the asura personal stories).

Nothing is serious in gw2, death is casual, life is "cheap", societies and opposing factions are contrived, etc.

@Zaklex.6308 said:Canach, that's his character, he's sarcastic, to a fault...so that almost everything he says will sound sarcastic, and that's exactly what he sounded like when planting the explosives, not funny but sarcastic. If you don't like the ambient characters speech, just tune it out...in this day and age I much prefer the lighter bits of conversation and ambient speech then I do disheartening speech...it's a game, most people play them to get away from bad news...even if that's at the expense of serious talk. By the way, I thought Taimi's line at the end was appropriate since she was almost one of those dead people.

This isn't about ambient character speech. This is about the way the story is delivered. It's not cohesive - it doesn't build atmosphere.I would imagine the developers would want me as a player to enjoy the story, dialogue and characters instead of "tuning it out".I also don't really accept or buy the "it's a game" thing - must all games be childish and light hearted to a fault? I mean - I get that it's a game but is that really an excuse to turn the narrative into a sitcom? Basically - looking back - almost all dialogues go like this:-Important serious line.-Funny 1 liner.-Important line.-Funny 1 liner.It works if done in moderation. It feels very overdone now.

@Athrenn.9468 said:I think it's a very Taimi thing to say. What would really worry me if everyone in Dragon's Watch had the same sense of humor and there was no serious figure to balance it out. Rox and Braham are pretty serious folks and Rox has a dry wit. Taimi says weird things at inappropriate times and Rytlock is the grouchy adult in a party of children. Canach and Rytlock rib each other as fellow soldiers often do in their down time. Of course, soldiers should also know when to shut up and focus on the mission when lives are on the line so stop making one-liners when bullets are flying past.

The problem is that Rytlock doesn't feel like an adult at all. He feels to me like what a 12 year old child would write an adult to be if he was in charge of the story. He's comically out of touch for someone who's supposed to be gritty and hard.Your other point is valid - it's not just that they do this - but it's seems like this is all they do.

@Curunen.8729 said:Tbh the entire personal store for the whole game is like this - and that's kind of why I like it - it's lighthearted and doesn't take itself seriously (especially being an asura main and having experienced all the asura personal stories).

Nothing is serious in gw2, death is casual, life is "cheap", societies and opposing factions are contrived, etc.

Why is this good? How is this appealing?

I dunno I personally found it funny and it did not really ruin my immersion- the only thing that really ruined my immersion in all of it was the pirates complaining of too heavy if just because that was too long and it didn't really add much after the first time, everything else was good IMO. Idk though, i'm an rper and a writer so i tend to think about dialogue and situations a lot, since I have to write around the story and in the story for scenes + character development, it's easy for me to see the jokes as a lighthearted bit of fun the characters enjoy because it's not like they're refusing to acknowledge how serious it all is- they do both, and I can feel that a lot more when I have to write about the stuff the characters talk about.

@Harper.4173 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:Tbh the entire personal store for the whole game is like this - and that's kind of why I like it - it's lighthearted and doesn't take itself seriously (especially being an asura main and having experienced all the asura personal stories).

Nothing is serious in gw2, death is casual, life is "cheap", societies and opposing factions are contrived, etc.

As I said, because it's lighthearted/carefree and doesn't take itself seriously.

In a time when the vast majority of entertainment is wallowing in gritty "realistic" depressing shades of grey, at least gw2 is some fresh air.

This type of banter is very prevalent in all entertainment these days. I call it the "Look How Witty I Am" dialog.

I like humor. I like silly dialog. When a game starts taking itself too seriously, and all the characters go horribly emo, and every storyline is about horror and tragedy and misery because it makes the teen players feel all grown up, I go looking for another game that still has entertainment value.

Why is it that every time I find something that makes me laugh and makes me happy, someone starts griping that it's not depressing enough to hold their interest?

I can see why you say this - not everyone appreciates humor, even cynically sarcastic humor (ironic considering those who prefer serious storylines are likely cynical in some shape or form)

I disagree however. if I wanted to play a game that makes me feel depressed, bitter and worthless i'd go play something like dark souls where there are only wrong choices and REALLY wrong choices. i'd go read books that are dark and depressing on purpose.

If i wanted to read something serious i'd go and play something like mass effect.

But here you are playing an MMO that has three legendary weapons that are silly and fun and have several dozen fourth wall breaking items among them - many silly and lighthearted. when did you expect to have a deep, gritty storytelling that plays with nihilistic elements of life and death which portrays the struggles of heroes to keep the world in working order despite its best efforts to be otherwise? (plus in MMOs where you can respawn it's honestly hard to take death seriously in the first place, no matter your story context or tone.)

Damn I hate Taimi. If only her character matured a bit come post PoF story. I actually wished she did die.

I'm quite happy with the dialogue in the story as long as I think it fits the characters as developed. I've watched plenty of TV and movies over the years that are very much like this. Die Hard was a serious movie filled with one liners. But, yeah, this isn't supposed to be a dark and grim game. There are games for that and I find them melodramatic and boring. Maybe it's because in real life, I probably am as sarcastic as Canach and I'm always joking, so it's natural for me to hear it in speech. Nope, doesn't bother me one bit. Over dramatised life and death stuff does though.

Well, I think they do humor much better than drama. But, well, tastes differ etc. What stands between me an immersion much more is the lack of choice I get as to what my character says and does. But I understand that they cannot make a full blown rpg, and I'm fine with that and enjoy the ride for what it is.

Edit: My favorite dialogue is the one between Canach and Rytlock when you pick up the diving goggles in the last story instance. No, I think the humor is fine as it is.

As someone said above, it feels like the party is made of children. And that's what the storyline feels like - something made for kids.

It's not a matter of the story being gritty and tragic - it's not something for emo teens either. If anything, the story is too tragic right now.

There's simply no depth. Instead of character development, we get caricatures for each of the races (Braham is the "strong but dummy" norn, Taimi is the "fragile but smart and egocentric" asura, Rytlock is the "though and serious charr", and so on), with a storyline in which there's no impact.

Ironically, the story by itself is very dark - our character dies, we are in a country in which all heroes of the past have been tortured and brainwashed into obeying their enemy, most of the GW1 characters had horrible fates, there's a refugee crisis, and so on. However, everything is shallow. Our character died, but one second later it was as if that never happened. We see people talking about the awakened as if they were nothing out of the ordinary. The carcasses of GW1 NPCs are thrown around as if they were candy (really, it's almost torture porn by now) and it's all laughs and fun.

It feels a lot like the worst Marvel movies - all jokes and no substance.

@"Witch of Doom.5739" said:This type of banter is very prevalent in all entertainment these days. I call it the "Look How Witty I Am" dialog.

Looking at a lot of the replies in this thread I might actually just give up and accept this is what people want these days. It's sad because I remember things not being like this in games just not so long ago.

@"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:I like humor. I like silly dialog. When a game starts taking itself too seriously, and all the characters go horribly emo, and every storyline is about horror and tragedy and misery because it makes the teen players feel all grown up, I go looking for another game that still has entertainment value.

Why is it that every time I find something that makes me laugh and makes me happy, someone starts griping that it's not depressing enough to hold their interest?

The problem here I feel there's not enough balance? Let me explain.I feel GW2 would have room for both types of story - both dramatic and tragic and funny. It's just that GW2 has NEVER taken itself very seriously and for the most part no storyline has been purely serious with no silly goofy funny stuff thrown in - so you should feel right at home here.There would have been room to have funny story and serious story - think of SAB - that's a funny story setting that could work well.

The reason I'm griping is not that it's not depressing enough - oddly enough it could be if it had the right tone - but that it fails to deliver what it sets out to do. It tries to create tension (obviously) but fails because of these sitcom-like mechanics.

I also don't get why - if you wanted to make a funny happy story with funny 1 liners - you would center that story on fighting undead in a land where people are oppressed and suffering under tyrannical rule while there's the ever present specter of dragon doomsday on top of it all. I get the feeling the writers wanted to make something serious/dramatic - they just don't know how to perhaps?

They have to balance out Braham's rage and angst somehow...

@"Carlin Sanders.3587" said:I can see why you say this - not everyone appreciates humor, even cynically sarcastic humor (ironic considering those who prefer serious storylines are likely cynical in some shape or form)

I disagree however. if I wanted to play a game that makes me feel depressed, bitter and worthless i'd go play something like dark souls where there are only wrong choices and REALLY wrong choices. i'd go read books that are dark and depressing on purpose.

If i wanted to read something serious i'd go and play something like mass effect.

But here you are playing an MMO that has three legendary weapons that are silly and fun and have several dozen fourth wall breaking items among them - many silly and lighthearted. when did you expect to have a deep, gritty storytelling that plays with nihilistic elements of life and death which portrays the struggles of heroes to keep the world in working order despite its best efforts to be otherwise? (plus in MMOs where you can respawn it's honestly hard to take death seriously in the first place, no matter your story context or tone.)

When I bought this MMO its tone was somewhat different. It wasn't GW1 dark but it wasn't the complete "happy-go-lucky-puppy-friends" tone we have now. Those 3 legendary weapons were the only "non-serious" items in the game. Problem is this phenomenon just kept getting worse. You may like it - but I don't. I suppose my voice has a place on the forums too, right?

I got the expectations to have a deeper, gritty story that plays with different elements when I played GW1 and fell in love with the franchise. Even GW2 had good moments like that (the death of your mentor / having to deliver the news of some asura dying to his wife and her absolutely hating you) - that's where I got these expectations.https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bleached_BonesI got the expectations from the story's general set-up - you're fighting dragons, undead, you're supposed to have this epic adventure and honestly the tone and direction the story has taken over the years feels like a bait and switch ( to me at least).Also it's funny but you never see this type of stuff in cutscenes or trailers that are meant to present the game to potential buyers. It's almost like they want the game to be taken seriously.And I disagree that this being an MMO doesn't make death valid. The story is YOUR personal story - you respawning is just a mechanic used to make up for human mistakes. You can think of it like this - you never died - because the "official timeline" of the game is the one in which you succeed every time ( this is done to compensate for human error) - but for NPCs? Death should be a relevant factor.

@Vayne.8563 said:I'm quite happy with the dialogue in the story as long as I think it fits the characters as developed. I've watched plenty of TV and movies over the years that are very much like this. Die Hard was a serious movie filled with one liners. But, yeah, this isn't supposed to be a dark and grim game. There are games for that and I find them melodramatic and boring. Maybe it's because in real life, I probably am as sarcastic as Canach and I'm always joking, so it's natural for me to hear it in speech. Nope, doesn't bother me one bit. Over dramatised life and death stuff does though.

I've bolded out the problem. When? When was this decided?I don't remember anything of the sort being marketed. I don't remember GW2 being marketed as "super friendly ez funz story so nice and happy". They directly and indirectly set up expectations and then give you this.I've had a friend play the game (story up to LSE3) and even she feels it's too ligthearted - and this is from a person who can't and won't watch horror movies, war movies and generally hates suffering.I don't want the game to be over dramatized. I do want it to feel realistic and allow for immersion.

The only story I've done so far was Human up until the mother tree, the Asuran's level 10 story with 2 different krewes, and PoF.

Not a single one of them was serious or dark or gritty.

Humans you either start off with Faren stealing your stuff to use it to throw you a party and then laughing off being captured... or as he said "Help! Murder! Mayhem!" and leading to rescuing people and joking about want to have sex with random girls that the rescuers might know.Or you're a commoner that have to help the people and the whole "someone's doing something sneaky behind the scenes" is done for laughs and even when everyone is set in disguise for the ending... it was jokes all around.Or you're a street-rat and Quinn whole situation was a joke right from waking up with a headache by telling the priestess to check their belongings as he might've robbed them and whether I decide to save him... people make jokes about being sick or... people make jokes about finding one half of him in the road and the other half in the fountain.

For the human part it really doesn't get much better.... OH and I should state at least for humans, the way I rescue slaves for certain renown hearts is by holding a gun to their head and them thanking me. I'm sure that's not story related but... can't take it seriously either.

From all forms of the Asura story I've done, not a single moment was serious. It was comical jokes from the beginning all the way to the end of it for the 2 level 10 story versions I've done.

I do have to say that most of the characters I like try to usually be serious at certain times and make subtle jokes at other times.