Mirages...

...honestly, I am far more frustrated by a Mirage with infinite evades and invulnerability than I am with any other spec (Scourge, Spellbreaker, Deadeye). 1 vs 1 mirages are unbeatable and I do not think that in PvP any spec should be unbeatable in 1 vs 1. The defense I heard for Mirage is "but if they mess up their rotation, they won't have perma evade"....well excuse me, messing up your rotation should lead to your adversary taking advantage not to you being just attack-able. The thing is that if they could perma evade without dealing damage then that's fine...but their biggest attacks comes from evading in the form of ambush skills! And that's just power Mirages...condi Mirages are a whole other nightmare. I know the devs wanted to keep confusion as a burst condi, which is fine, but a condi Mirage still vomits different condis out at a rate that would make even Scourges blush. I understand that the spec is built to evade & attack, but that's becoming a real problem in PvP, or at least so I find. Am I the only one that thinks this way? Maybe I just need to git gud and find a strategy that works against Mirages and stop bitching...

Do we have any class stats for how the top 100 in NA/EU ended? I am just curious.

With mirage being unbeatable in 1v1, 5 mirages should by the same logic be completely unbeatable in 5v5. So all top 100 must be playing mirages because why play any other spec? It would be very stupid of them to gimp themselves by playing actual beatable classes.

The only real question is how the deadlock of points work. If an unbeatable mirage fights against an unbeatable mirage, who wins?

@Dawdler.8521 said:Do we have any class stats for how the top 100 in NA/EU ended? I am just curious.

With mirage being unbeatable in 1v1, 5 mirages should by the same logic be completely unbeatable in 5v5. So all top 100 must be playing mirages because why play any other spec? It would be very stupid of them to kitten themselves by playing actual beatable classes.

The only real question is how the deadlock of points work. If an unbeatable mirage fights against an unbeatable mirage, who wins?

That's stupid, there is no more than 1 Mirage per team because duelling is not the best way to win ranked PvP.

Long duels aren't good if you don't have and be able to stay on the point. A mirage is good cuz hid and mobility, Mirage don't facetank like spellbreaker or firebrand.

1v1 sustained damage (long cd burst/condi) is not good in teamfight, you will prefer heavy burst machine, bunker, or AoE damage truck.

The mesmer role is to travel/port between close and far and 1v1/decap on ennemies points.

borinnnnng!....delete thread plz

@Aedaryl.3195 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Do we have any class stats for how the top 100 in NA/EU ended? I am just curious.

With mirage being unbeatable in 1v1, 5 mirages should by the same logic be completely unbeatable in 5v5. So all top 100 must be playing mirages because why play any other spec? It would be very stupid of them to kitten themselves by playing actual beatable classes.

The only real question is how the deadlock of points work. If an unbeatable mirage fights against an unbeatable mirage, who wins?

But OP said it was unbeatable!

This does not compute!!!

@Vieux P.1238 said:borinnnnng!....delete thread plz

Fooo, Quaggan would rather delete Mirage, since they are not only more boring than threads about nerfing Mirage, but they are reason of given threads.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Aedaryl.3195 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Do we have any class stats for how the top 100 in NA/EU ended? I am just curious.

With mirage being unbeatable in 1v1, 5 mirages should by the same logic be completely unbeatable in 5v5. So all top 100 must be playing mirages because why play any other spec? It would be very stupid of them to kitten themselves by playing actual beatable classes.

The only real question is how the deadlock of points work. If an unbeatable mirage fights against an unbeatable mirage, who wins?

Posters said Condi Mirage is unkillable in 1v1 (even hardcounters most builds) and the only reason not everyone is playing it is that it is not a point holding build.

Guild Wars 2 is a game about winning fights. That's where the fun comes from for most of the playerbase. Saying that Condi Mes is balanced because it is hold back by game mode mechanics (capturing) is ridiculous. That's the same stupid logic like the guy had a few days ago in the WvW thread, when he said Deadeye 20k instant melee quickness DJ out of stealth is balanced because you can hide in towers.

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Do we have any class stats for how the top 100 in NA/EU ended? I am just curious.

With mirage being unbeatable in 1v1, 5 mirages should by the same logic be completely unbeatable in 5v5. So all top 100 must be playing mirages because why play any other spec? It would be very stupid of them to kitten themselves by playing actual beatable classes.

The only real question is how the deadlock of points work. If an unbeatable mirage fights against an unbeatable mirage, who wins?

There are such things called "synergy" and "diminishing returns"

But you're trying to be obtuse on purpose, so carry on being obtuse.

@Morwath.9817 said:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:borinnnnng!....delete thread plz

Actually, he is right. This thread is boring, not because mirage doesn't need a little of a tone down all together with other out of control phenomena which is happening right now in the combat system, but more for the wrong view of how things work in the system the OP and people who really tried to have an argument with him have. I mean, if you're talking about "rotations", listing spellbreaker and deadeye as top problems along with scourge, saying that if a profession is good at 1v1s should mean it should dominate 5v5s... Well, these are the boring stuff...

@NuhDah.9812 said:

@Morwath.9817 said:

@"Vieux P.1238" said:borinnnnng!....delete thread plz

Ooo, but Deadweight, foooo, Deadeye is huge issue. Once you will get one in your team, you will understand Quaggan believes.

As a mirage I beat 9/10 of the spellbreakers I face.As a spellbreaker I beat 9/10 Mirages I face.

(Main mesmer since release)And I'm not trying to say that mirage shouldn't be tweaked down, that would be ignorant and selfish.But to say it's unbeatable... A somewhat competent scourge will transfer the burst you just gave him right back to you.Sadly enough, some of them don't even realise they can.

@Magnito.6187 said:As a mirage I beat 9/10 of the spellbreakers I face.As a spellbreaker I beat 9/10 Mirages I face.

(Main mesmer since release)And I'm not trying to say that mirage shouldn't be tweaked down, that would be ignorant and selfish.But to say it's unbeatable... A somewhat competent scourge will transfer the burst you just gave him right back to you.Sadly enough, some of them don't even realise they can.But if you where to meet yourself, then it would technically be unbeatable as that would presumably be the 1 out of 10 spellbreakers or mirages you meet and wouldnt beat. Ergo both spellbreakers and mirages are unbeatable. This thread is escalating fast.

While I agree, that mirage condi bomb needs to be toned down a bit (and I play mirage myself), I would hardly call it unbeatable. There are matchup in which mirages are at a disadvantage. Druids and Holos (altho the holo needs to be pretty good) have the favorable matchup in a 1v1. Spellbreaker MUs, altho mirage has a slight edge, also can be pretty even, if they run Featherfoot grace and zerker stance.

Mirage is very squishy one mistake and you are dead and perma evade isn't a thing yes you can chain double dodges and sword 2 then another dodge unless you using Rune of the Adventurer you can add one more dodge and Mirage Mirror will give you one more evade if you are using the mirages healing skill then u can use your distortion when 3 clones are up and if you are using Desert Distortion you have access to 3 more evades then you can use double dodges and sword 2. but doing thiskind of rotation or something similar is stupid and very hard to actually do it perfectly, especially in sPVP and WvW. however timing every evade you have and us it wisely is the key to win and to fight mirage you need to play mirage so you know when to attack and what to dodge like every other class in the game.For example i can kill svanir and chiftain without them touching me but that's it . cos i know what they gonna do but vs real players you cant win with evades and actually you gonna loose if you waste your skills.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Magnito.6187 said:As a mirage I beat 9/10 of the spellbreakers I face.As a spellbreaker I beat 9/10 Mirages I face.

(Main mesmer since release)And I'm not trying to say that mirage shouldn't be tweaked down, that would be ignorant and selfish.But to say it's unbeatable... A somewhat competent scourge will transfer the burst you just gave him right back to you.Sadly enough, some of them don't even realise they can.But if you where to meet yourself, then it would technically be unbeatable as that would presumably be the 1 out of 10 spellbreakers or mirages you meet and wouldnt beat. Ergo both spellbreakers and mirages are unbeatable. This thread is escalating fast.

Bottom line: nearly all the PoF specs (SB, scourge, mirage, holo, FB) are way out of proportion. But what did you expect?One just a bit more than the other. And having it in the right hands leads to misconception wether something is OP or UP.Basically: the usual grieve.

@"Yukio blaster.9082" said:Mirage is very squishy one mistake and you are dead and perma evade isn't a thing yes you can chain double dodges and sword 2 then another dodge unless you using Rune of the Adventurer you can add one more dodge and Mirage Mirror will give you one more evade if you are using the mirages healing skill then u can use your distortion when 3 clones are up and if you are using Desert Distortion you have access to 3 more evades then you can use double dodges and sword 2. but doing thiskind of rotation or something similar is stupid and very hard to actually do it perfectly, especially in sPVP and WvW. however timing every evade you have and us it wisely is the key to win and to fight mirage you need to play mirage so you know when to attack and what to dodge like every other class in the game.For example i can kill svanir and chiftain without them touching me but that's it . cos i know what they gonna do but vs real players you cant win with evades and actually you gonna loose if you waste your skills.

"Mirage doesn't even have a lot of evades..."

proceeds to list more than a dozen different ways to chain evades

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Yukio blaster.9082" said:Mirage is very squishy one mistake and you are dead and perma evade isn't a thing yes you can chain double dodges and sword 2 then another dodge unless you using Rune of the Adventurer you can add one more dodge and Mirage Mirror will give you one more evade if you are using the mirages healing skill then u can use your distortion when 3 clones are up and if you are using Desert Distortion you have access to 3 more evades then you can use double dodges and sword 2. but doing thiskind of rotation or something similar is stupid and very hard to actually do it perfectly, especially in sPVP and WvW. however timing every evade you have and us it wisely is the key to win and to fight mirage you need to play mirage so you know when to attack and what to dodge like every other class in the game.For example i can kill svanir and chiftain without them touching me but that's it . cos i know what they gonna do but vs real players you cant win with evades and actually you gonna loose if you waste your skills.

Yeah if you doing a evade contest when the longer evade wins but in actual game-play this is not working and very bad in sPVP when you need to take the point and not only evade attacks and distortion don't contribute in contesting the point something like warrior vengeance however the banker druid can keep a point when being impossible to kill that should get a nerf tho, same thing about the banker firebrand.

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Yukio blaster.9082 said:Mirage is very squishy one mistake and you are dead and perma evade isn't a thing yes you can chain double dodges and sword 2 then another dodge unless you using Rune of the Adventurer you can add one more dodge and Mirage Mirror will give you one more evade if you are using the mirages healing skill then u can use your distortion when 3 clones are up and if you are using Desert Distortion you have access to 3 more evades then you can use double dodges and sword 2. but doing thiskind of rotation or something similar is stupid and very hard to actually do it perfectly, especially in sPVP and WvW. however timing every evade you have and us it wisely is the key to win and to fight mirage you need to play mirage so you know when to attack and what to dodge like every other class in the game.For example i can kill svanir and chiftain without them touching me but that's it . cos i know what they gonna do but vs real players you cant win with evades and actually you gonna loose if you waste your skills.

MIrage counters Druid and will force him off point rather quickly to get the decap. If the Druid sticks around he's dying yielding the point the other team along with a +5.

What generally happens is Mirage forces Decap and Ranger gets a +1 only to have the mirage rotate off and live. The best players on Mirage though will win the 1v2.

Mirage needs to be gutted and then gradually buffed directly/indirectly for the next few balance patches.

@Jinks.2057 said:

MIrage counters Druid and will force him off point rather quickly to get the decap. If the Druid sticks around he's dying yielding the point the other team along with a +5.

What generally happens is Mirage forces Decap and Ranger gets a +1 only to have the mirage rotate off and live. The best players on Mirage though will win the 1v2.

Mirage needs to be gutted and then gradually buffed directly/indirectly for the next few balance patches.

Unless this is a troll....have you considered a career in the white house? Cause this is some top-notch fake news.

Anything that can safely run away at a drop of a hat is “unkillable 1v1”.

That’s not a problem. sPvP isn’t actually about kills, it’s about conquest cap points. If teams could reliably win without fights or kills they’d do it. When a mirage gets pushed off point it’s fine, you now have the point.

Lol @ “infinity evades and distortion” DD gets more doges in their kit, and mirage only seems untouchable if you can’t play around desert distortion, which is a personal issue. Plus unlike DD mirage doesnt have as much of a choice and has to blow endurance to support its damage or keep pressure up.

The problem you are all seeing is the nature of condi not mirage, and the combination of its role. If we had cleanse priority no one would be complaining about mirage right now regardless of its ability to get away.

Which btw most mirage builds don’t run that much cleanse, I’ve killed so many who port or run away just drop lol.

If you want to directly nerf mirage in anyway, nerf the cover condis.

This short sighted “I can’t win a 1v1; it needs to be gutted!” Is excrement from bad players who cannot adapt to the actual game type, and trolls regardless of ability who probably want to push an agenda. Maybe a small slice of you complain because the game isn’t what you want it to be, and frankly I’m there with you. But talks of balance need to be with conquest in mind, not your off point and duel room 1v1s.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

With mirage being unbeatable in 1v1, 5 mirages should by the same logic be completely unbeatable in 5v5

Lol at people upvoting such a moronic statement. Classes that excel in duels aren't necessarily good in clusterfucks of spam and zerging.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Aedaryl.3195 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Do we have any class stats for how the top 100 in NA/EU ended? I am just curious.

With mirage being unbeatable in 1v1, 5 mirages should by the same logic be completely unbeatable in 5v5. So all top 100 must be playing mirages because why play any other spec? It would be very stupid of them to kitten themselves by playing actual beatable classes.

The only real question is how the deadlock of points work. If an unbeatable mirage fights against an unbeatable mirage, who wins?

He said it's unbeatable in 1v1. I think you know that though, just gotta mental gymnastics through this somehow, right?

the problem with mirage is that you cant pin them down. Whatever you do the mesmer still can run away and the only way you can kill them is when they mess up.i dont consider waiting for an enemy mistake as fun gameplay

@Namless.4028 said:the problem with mirage is that you cant pin them down. Whatever you do the mesmer still can run away and the only way you can kill them is when they mess up.i dont consider waiting for an enemy mistake as fun gameplay

If a thief never mad a mistake will you never kill him!! and of course banker druid with stealth and load's of healing can you kill him without a mistake !! or holosmith with perma 25stack of might and nearly perma stability plus stealth and invulnerability if he don't mess up can you kill him!! .And just for yo to know if you can kill a class without the player making any mistake then the class you playing with is OP and need a rework .And in this game or in life in general it's all about taking opportunities and using the mistakes of others in your favour.

@Methuselah.4376 said:I know the devs wanted to keep confusion as a burst condi, which is fine,

Just for the record. It's totally not fine.