World Restructuring - Page 6 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

World Restructuring

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  • SnowPumpkin.1809SnowPumpkin.1809 Member ✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    So we have to join a WVW guild to play with friends? I joined GW2 with someone and a lot of couples play that either run guildless or do not want to be in a WVW guild. We love WVW however and if we can't play together I can't see myself continuing to play GW, we will end up having to play something else. A lot of guilds have expectations, they expect you to raid with them at certain times etc... not everyone can do that and I'm not about to go begging WVW guilds to add me to their guild. I'm upset about all the money spent transferring to new worlds trying to find a balance in population times considering he's in EU and I'm NA. What will be done for customers who have poured money into transfers and couples who want to play together and not be in a guild? How will TeamSpeak work when it has to be changed every couple months? This also breaks up long term servers that have worked very hard to get where they are, trained constantly and are used to the players they play with? I'm hoping this fixes some issues but I have a bad feeling. This solution may create more issues than it fixes.

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    I would like to reiterate the previous questions posed, and not yet answered, about how this will affect Roleplayers.

    Even though I'm not a roleplayer myself, I always found their play style something that made the game world feel a little bit more active. Instead of a silent chat with a bunch of people AFKing in town, folks are pretending to do... well, whatever it is roleplayers do. It's nice to see, and it's a long lived tradition of MMOs (in the 20 years I've been playing, I've been seeing RPers do their thing).

    I took a hiatus from this game a while back, before the megaserver, and before leaving I was on Tarnished Coast. It felt alive; always something going on. Upon arriving back to the megaserver, it's hit or miss. Some instances feel active, with the roleplayers doing their thing, and others are dead silent.

    It sounds to me like this is going to further that disparity between instances. Almost every MMO I've played at least had some remote head nod to RPers, but it feels almost as if this game is slowly adding more and more things to scatter and deter them, like trying to break up kids loitering outside of storefronts.

    If RP really is something that is discouraged by Arenanet, it would be nice if y'all would take the time just to go ahead and say that so everyone can have an understanding of their situation. But otherwise, if that isn't the case, a little encouragement and explanation as to what the future of these players will be (and maybe even a carrot, now and then) might help a lot.

    As much as RPers probably spend on the gem store looking pretty, I think they've at least earned a small acknowledgment of their existence.

  • Strages.2950Strages.2950 Member ✭✭✭

    Feedback:

    1.) 500-1000 player alliances is waaaaay too big. Consider large guilds who have 10% hardcore players (a lot of participation towards their alliance/guild, yet low actual coverage). Limit the Alliance size to maximum 200 (100 ideally). This will force people who actually play (by timezones) together to build smaller alliances, and guilds like (ex) CERN wont clutter a server/timezone with "casuals". This will prevent the bandwagoning of alliances as well.

    2.) Make Alliance or Guild leaderboards (ppt contributed, k/d ratios, etc.). This whole "server identity" crying will be mitigated if you give people something to fight for. Since you're working on an Alliance system, I would suggest we stick to that.

  • Swamurabi.7890Swamurabi.7890 Member ✭✭✭

    Since my two WvW guilds on FA have been dead for a while, is there a way for me to set a preference so I don't join a new guild that was on BG, JQ, TC or YB?

  • Chinese server wvw players less, how to deal with this?

  • I'm gonna need to give this a proper look over tomorrow but my initial thoughts are hopeful for this system. WvW does need something to happen.

    The big drawback seems to be doing away with the current worlds, which a lot of people have clung on to for the longest time and have built their communities around. Look at GSCH on Sanctum of Rall, for instance. But with the Alliance system, this drawback can mostly be alleviated I feel. I don't think I've ever actually seen a 500-man pure WvW Guild before, so I doubt there'll actually be an issue of not having enough space in an Alliance.

    I like idea of tracking Participation more thoroughly in order to gauge a player's WvW rating, but would it be possible to add more things that actually count as Participation i.e. Reviving, Healing, Boonsharing for people who play more supportive roles?

    Also, how will different types of Participation affect a player's WvW skill rating? For instance, Maguuma is known for its' fight mentality so naturally its' players would attain more Participation from killing enemies than some other servers that prefer PPTing. Will killing enemies grant you a higher skill rating than someone who mostly caps keeps?

    You also mention that Guilds will have to mark themselves as WvW Guilds. Does marking your Guild automatically secure your entire Guild a spot in a World during World Creation? How will inactive members of these Guilds affect population slots within the World the Guild is allocated to? Some Guilds have been known not to play in WvW for the week during unfavourable matchups, what will the repercussions be for intentional tanking like this?

    That's all I can think of at the moment. Looking forward to seeing the outcome of this dialog :)

    Mezmer Mind [CTRL] - Anvil Rock

  • Symbi.8903Symbi.8903 Member ✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    Will we be able to see who in the roster has set the guild as their main wvw guild?

  • Cave Rock.4869Cave Rock.4869 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    @McKenna Berdrow.2759 Could this be the time we finally get to see our opponents names? Or have player leaderboards etc... More focus on player skill.

  • gonna go with dead game mode inside 30 days after you do this

  • Silver.2076Silver.2076 Member ✭✭✭

    Let's talk about the EU servers. There are currently national (DE, ES, FR, EN) servers there. Will the guilds of the servers be merged so that DE and FR fight for the same world?

    Personally, I think it would be great, because this way the cover can probably be better balanced. But it is no secret that it can also lead to problems.

  • @jacobian.6173 said:
    The only real problem I foresee with this is that all of the top guilds will make an alliance together to dominate the rest of the worlds. and because of how you make it sound it would just be another BG type of deal over the rest of the world.

    Actually that is already how WVW is run, guilds all transfer together (move servers) to stay together and servers like BG have the top WVW guilds. So it sounds like those same guilds will still be playing together stomping on the little guys.

  • Wouldn't Guilds and Alliances almost completely negate the whole intent of the Individual Player Metric that's there to ensure balance? It feels as though it would end up being back to the same-old-same-old as we have currently.

    For instance: You have an alliance of guilds who play mostly during prime time. Will there be enough individuals/guilds/alliances out there to balance the other play times for that World (and all the other Worlds with the same imbalances), or will nothing really change from the way it is currently?

    I feel this restructuring will not solve any issues with matchup balance. I feel it only replaces the concept of "Servers" with "Alliances". The imbalance issues remain.

    Unfortunately, the only way to ensure balance is if the system only measured the individual, thrown together in a herd with other individuals, with no friend/guild/alliance association. Sure, it would SUCK not being with your friends/guildmates, but it would be balanced.

    Bottom line, having it both ways truly is not possible. The WvW community will need to genuinely realize they can either have balance (via the Individual Player Metric only) or community (guilds/alliances).

    The WvW community will have to come to terms with what they REALLY want here: balance OR community.

  • Hate to be that guy but I assume this will make it harder to farm outnumbered pips? I just finished my wvw legendary armor and wanted to take a break before working on the legendary backpack.

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tyyphoon.5301 said:
    Where does this put the roamer populations? Many of the roamers played with each other or against each other for certain reasons. We have come to know more or less each other -- for better or for worse. Now you will be forcing ALL players to join big guilds, even if its against their wishes. How does that sit with ANET's tenet and original intent for the game? Forcing more zergling play, it seems.

    Why don't you just form a guild with the roamers you like and set that as your WvW guild?

  • CarSh.8256CarSh.8256 Member
    edited February 1, 2018

    My question was answered. :)

  • @Silver.2076 said:
    Let's talk about the EU servers. There are currently national (DE, ES, FR, EN) servers there. Will the guilds of the servers be merged so that DE and FR fight for the same world?

    Personally, I think it would be great, because this way the cover can probably be better balanced. But it is no secret that it can also lead to problems.

    Quote:

    Guilds will be able to set their language. An alliance will take the language of the guild that created it. If you aren't playing with a guild then the system will use whatever language you set the game as to sort you into a world that is that language.

  • A few thoughts. I've been in favor of a system like this for some time now. It will cause some players to leave, sure. Yet I still believe it will cause more to try WvW out and potentially for players to come back. When the reward tracks came out there certainly seemed to be a big resurgence. I'd like to see that come back. Balance changes and coverage issues are two of the biggest items that come up from the community.

    What I've liked about this type of concept is it puts the recruitment, retention and involvement right back on the community again. You want balance in your alliance? Great! Start recruiting for not just players but also guilds to fill in your coverage gaps. Players already know the guilds that are on various servers. We have spreadsheets. :) For those players who don't like organized WvW guilds, I'd highly recommend starting up a community guild now. Find or advertise among other server links you've liked in the past. Link those community guilds together. Call it the Me(n)tal Militia or something. There are so many ways this can be divided up.

    In my mind a method to come up with a total overall number of participation goes like this: Determine a set of metrics that are already in the API which can then be utilized for an overall player score. Kills, deaths, hours played, WvW achievement points divided by hours played (this streamlines the data to come up with a number that isn't solely determined by time), rank, commander hours, damage taken/healed...whatever these might be and add that up. Average it across the alliance. Compare/contrast with other alliances.

    Then consider putting a modifier on that number the farther away from "Prime time" a member is to increase the overall value of their performance. Find the highest concentration of the playerbase (activity) for NA and EU. As a player's activity is further away from that period of time they get a bonus to their score. Basically stating that their contribution would be substantially higher. It breaks out the off hours component in a way that Arenanet doesn't have to actually track when people play. Otherwise there still is always going to be an imbalance somewhere along the line. Kudos for showing the community that there is activity. I'll forgive you for not posting this as a response to my Christmas wish on Reddit. :)

    Guild leader for Goats of Thunder. No pants allowed.

  • Klipso.8653Klipso.8653 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zephyr.8015 said:
    Quite honestly I am upset, especially because you name Blackgate as a problem server when its not. It is not BG's problem that servers don't want to participate in WvW, it is also not our problem that other servers aren't putting in time and effort into WvW in comparison to others. Looking at this site: https://wvwstats.com/timezones BG does not have the WvW population people think it does. I am so kitten glad to hear that anet has listened to the massive amount of haters of BG that carry around giant amounts of salt from Season 1 and 2. Because its BG's fault they don't put in effort, its BG's fault they get rolled over, its BG's fault that they don't play the game type as well. Anyone on SoS can tell you they have been doing well these past two weeks against us, by putting in effort and playing the game type. All this alliance thing will do is require more guild politics/map politics and cause drama. I am sure BG isn't alone in the fact that we have members of guilds who are in multiple WvW guilds, forcing them to choose 1 guild for an 8 week period or just in general to WvW with isn't cool. But I guess that's an exclusive issue on closed servers having to recruit from a limited pool of players, while other servers can recruit a lot more. This boils down to effort, the fact that you'd rather break apart servers who do WvW well to make it fair to those who don't want to put in effort.

    This is a hard fact that will be ignored by the ignorant

    -Balwarc [ICoa]

  • CarSh.8256CarSh.8256 Member
    edited February 1, 2018

    My question was answered. :)

  • Blaeys.3102Blaeys.3102 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2018

    There are potential solutions that would help balance populations without decimating the current server communities in the game. I recall a video that made the rounds several years ago that discussed implementing more than 3 borderlands maps in a given match, allowing for a single regional wvw match - where all of the servers are essentially grouped (and periodically regrouped) into three large teams - and then enough borderlands maps are generated to accommodate for all of them in the given time period. While still not a perfect solution, it has to be better than what they are proposing here, which essentially invalidates the communities built in the last five years.

    Of course, this would require more work from Anet, but that is better than putting this onto players (and the inevitable elitism that comes with that as casual guilds kitten for semi-decent wvw experiences).

    I tried to find the video but cannot - I remember it being extremely well done. If someone remembers it (or the person who created it sees this), it would be worth linking.

  • @Nidome.1365 said:
    Why should people who aren't in guilds now be forced to join one to play with the same people regularly.

    Why should people be forced to join a guild so that they can more easily play with the people they often enjoy playing with?

    Because that is a basic mechanic of most MMOs? :#

    How were people playing with others on the same server without being in the same guild currently? Communicating over facebook or something? :o

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gaile Gray.6029 said:
    We also want to give titles related to the worlds on which players currently are playing when World Restructuring goes live. If there are other transition ideas, we would love to hear them!

    I've been at the Sea of Sorrows since joining GW2. pls Make it happen!

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • asha.4159asha.4159 Member ✭✭

    @SnowPumpkin.1809 said:

    The problem is those guilds will only recruit players that can dedicate all their time to WVW, or can train as you said, or raid with them etc. If you can't or don't you will be in a map for 8 weeks with people you don't know and huge guilds that run around saying get lost pug. I play a lot of WVW I can see this happening easily, as it already does in some cases with Guild raids. I think it's a bad idea to give guilds the reins in WVW, it's already a problem.

    Definition of Guild - an association of people for mutual aid or the pursuit of a common goal.

    Yes there will be elite guilds - raids/ trainings/ expectations - but casual ones with less restrictions are already around and dont have a culture to git gud or gkick.

    Khan Ur Asha - EU server Vabbi - Achievement hunter spending too much time in WvW PPK farming lootbags
    Member of WvW guild Burn Vabbi [vB] also The Spud Club [SPUD], Guardians of the Dutch [GOTD] &
    New PvP Guild - My Build is from MetaBattle [Mb]

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Klipso.8653 said:

    @Zephyr.8015 said:
    Quite honestly I am upset, especially because you name Blackgate as a problem server when its not. It is not BG's problem that servers don't want to participate in WvW, it is also not our problem that other servers aren't putting in time and effort into WvW in comparison to others. Looking at this site: https://wvwstats.com/timezones BG does not have the WvW population people think it does. I am so kitten glad to hear that anet has listened to the massive amount of haters of BG that carry around giant amounts of salt from Season 1 and 2. Because its BG's fault they don't put in effort, its BG's fault they get rolled over, its BG's fault that they don't play the game type as well. Anyone on SoS can tell you they have been doing well these past two weeks against us, by putting in effort and playing the game type. All this alliance thing will do is require more guild politics/map politics and cause drama. I am sure BG isn't alone in the fact that we have members of guilds who are in multiple WvW guilds, forcing them to choose 1 guild for an 8 week period or just in general to WvW with isn't cool. But I guess that's an exclusive issue on closed servers having to recruit from a limited pool of players, while other servers can recruit a lot more. This boils down to effort, the fact that you'd rather break apart servers who do WvW well to make it fair to those who don't want to put in effort.

    This is a hard fact that will be ignored by the ignorant

    If BG players are in fact simply better at playing the game than anyone else then they'll continue to win. It might not be possible to implement BG's current nightcap/ daytime turtle strat as effectively but that shouldn't matter right?

  • @Tolmos.8395 said:
    I would like to reiterate the previous questions posed, and not yet answered, about how this will affect Roleplayers.

    Even though I'm not a roleplayer myself, I always found their play style something that made the game world feel a little bit more active. Instead of a silent chat with a bunch of people AFKing in town, folks are pretending to do... well, whatever it is roleplayers do. It's nice to see, and it's a long lived tradition of MMOs (in the 20 years I've been playing, I've been seeing RPers do their thing).

    I took a hiatus from this game a while back, before the megaserver, and before leaving I was on Tarnished Coast. It felt alive; always something going on. Upon arriving back to the megaserver, it's hit or miss. Some instances feel active, with the roleplayers doing their thing, and others are dead silent.

    It sounds to me like this is going to further that disparity between instances. Almost every MMO I've played at least had some remote head nod to RPers, but it feels almost as if this game is slowly adding more and more things to scatter and deter them, like trying to break up kids loitering outside of storefronts.

    If RP really is something that is discouraged by Arenanet, it would be nice if y'all would take the time just to go ahead and say that so everyone can have an understanding of their situation. But otherwise, if that isn't the case, a little encouragement and explanation as to what the future of these players will be (and maybe even a carrot, now and then) might help a lot.

    As much as RPers probably spend on the gem store looking pretty, I think they've at least earned a small acknowledgment of their existence.

    Nice joke.

  • Klipso.8653Klipso.8653 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Israel.7056 said:

    @Klipso.8653 said:

    @Zephyr.8015 said:
    Quite honestly I am upset, especially because you name Blackgate as a problem server when its not. It is not BG's problem that servers don't want to participate in WvW, it is also not our problem that other servers aren't putting in time and effort into WvW in comparison to others. Looking at this site: https://wvwstats.com/timezones BG does not have the WvW population people think it does. I am so kitten glad to hear that anet has listened to the massive amount of haters of BG that carry around giant amounts of salt from Season 1 and 2. Because its BG's fault they don't put in effort, its BG's fault they get rolled over, its BG's fault that they don't play the game type as well. Anyone on SoS can tell you they have been doing well these past two weeks against us, by putting in effort and playing the game type. All this alliance thing will do is require more guild politics/map politics and cause drama. I am sure BG isn't alone in the fact that we have members of guilds who are in multiple WvW guilds, forcing them to choose 1 guild for an 8 week period or just in general to WvW with isn't cool. But I guess that's an exclusive issue on closed servers having to recruit from a limited pool of players, while other servers can recruit a lot more. This boils down to effort, the fact that you'd rather break apart servers who do WvW well to make it fair to those who don't want to put in effort.

    This is a hard fact that will be ignored by the ignorant

    If BG players are in fact simply better at playing the game than anyone else then they'll continue to win. It might not be possible to implement BG's current nightcap/ daytime turtle strat as effectively but that shouldn't matter right?

    Take a good look at that link and tell me again how our community hasn't endured 3 years of a kitten lock

    -Balwarc [ICoa]

  • As a player not associated with a guild, it feels a little sad to think about not seeing the same awesome commanders running around all the time on my world. I think this change is still the best for the game though.

    How do you plan to handle "super alliances", the possibility of many top tier guilds creating a 500-stack at the top skill level? That is the one thing that I don't see addressed here and people will definitely try to create them.

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