Build Diversity is incredible right now. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Build Diversity is incredible right now.

Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
Mesmer- 3
Necromancer- 2
Ele- 0.5
Thief- 3
Engineer- 3
Ranger- 3
Revenant- 1
Guardian- 3
Warrior- 2
Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

Comments

  • shinta.8906shinta.8906 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    And they all basically do the same thing:
    "Select target -> Effortlessly negate all incoming damage and effects for a prolonged period of time without really avoiding anything (alternatively: use an instant teleport) -> face-roll across the most high-damage buttons possible."

    try weaver - fixed

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How is must have short bow diverse?

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I can't help but feel some sarcasm in there.
    Not sure if it's just me.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Core radiance, mender support fb, harrier fb (arken's meme build) ?
    I'm seeing all three of these builds somewhat frequently between 1500 and 1700 on EU.

  • Legatus.3608Legatus.3608 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2018

    I also don't know what the 3 meta thief builds are. I feel like dp is barely viable when the other team has a guard + necro combo and sd is too over nerfed to help with that. I don't think deadeye is really viable either.

    Anyways, if I we're to guess I don't think he's counting sd so I'm guessing dp, deadeye of some kind and condi thief of some kind? Kind of stretching the meaning of meta I think.

    Regardless I do agree with his point though that the meta balance seems to be better right now. The last patch seems to have really targeted the main issues (even if not all were fully corrected). I'd like to see them do the same with the trait lines now but maybe that's getting too greedy.

    I think the biggest issue right now is necro. They really need to do something with necro, not because its op or bad but because its too good when not focused and too useless when it is.

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Legatus.3608 said:
    I think the biggest issue right now is necro. They really need to do something with necro, not because its op or bad but because its too good when not focused and too useless when it is.

    It just needs a support, which also gives it decent balance as you can rotate around nec + support fairly easily, neither of them can properly 1v1 yet the necro + support can still overwhelm most other 2v2s. I consider it relatively similar to hypercarry / support duos in moba's.

    I do understand that for most players playing soloQ at a rating where you most likely won't have supports, and even if you do they're probably going to run as far away as you as possible, necro might be slightly unreliable or at times unfun. Either way, the game itself is very snowbally, and necros often get punished hardest for it. Still, these are more L2P issues and teamcomp issues than balance problems.

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭

    I used to hit a very solid wall when running d/d zerker a few years ago.(which you obviously should) that wall no longer exists. So no diversity isn't better, it just people don't know the basics.

  • @Swagg.9236 said:
    And they all basically do the same thing:
    "Select target -> Effortlessly negate all incoming damage and effects for a prolonged period of time without really avoiding anything (alternatively: use an instant teleport) -> face-roll across the most high-damage buttons possible."

    This.

    The current state doesn't even allow you to "establish an identity." Even launch had arguably more build variety

    Everybody is a bunch of evade spamming while attacking mesmer/ranger main who thinks they're good when they're not. It's so bad

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Harrier firebrand, menders firebrand, and 1 shot guard.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2018

    It don't matter what you all say or the OP's says or the spuds says.
    The pvp build system is bland, stale & just plain boring all across the board. It's been said before & it's been said now.
    There is no build diversity except for playing the meta on each class.
    Between you & me, Title to this thread should be, - Build Diversity is incredible Boring right now.
    **Plz, take build diversity lesson's from Gw1....plzzzz. **

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • SoulSin.5682SoulSin.5682 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    **Plz, take build diversity lesson's from Gw1....plzzzz. **

    Gw1 build diversity would never work on conquest.

    In fact, the whole reason GW2 sucks at build diversity is because of how optimized conquest is. There is simple "no space" for creative builds.
    You always need a man for some role.

  • @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Harrier firebrand, menders firebrand, and 1 shot guard.

    Harrier Firebrand is not a viable build.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Harrier firebrand, menders firebrand, and 1 shot guard.

    Harrier Firebrand is not a viable build.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Harrier firebrand, menders firebrand, and 1 shot guard.

    Harrier Firebrand is not a viable build.

    Yes it is.

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    Buff dragonhunter

    Twitch | YouTube

    Dragonhunter main | Aspiring Herald

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    That' was funny! Especially with the 0.5 in there!
    I mean even if all the classes had 3 viable PvP builds the variety would probably be just good, not really something incredible... I mean, that would be the basic expectance for a game that has 3 "specializations" and that wants to boast not having a holy trinity.
    With those two premisses in play, 3 would be the minimum amount of builds available to each profession. Sadly we're nowhere even close. Balance isn't the game's best feature... It's actually down to one of the worse.

    I mean for GW2 standards... Yeah, i'll give you that, if your numbers stick, it's close to being the most varied selection we've had. There's been better in the past, but this isn't too bad.
    And honestly, i don't know if the balance team can handle variety... They can barely balance 1 meta build per class...

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    If we consider meta it is:
    Mirage condi
    Scourge
    Holo
    BM (kinda)
    Dare devil
    Dead eye
    Herald
    FB
    SB

    Everything else is weaker or down right garbage. Even then, probably less than quarter of utilities and weapons are viable per class. This is not good diversity by any stretch.

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    So with 2 Elite specializations for each class, assuming each elite specialization trait is useful for at least one build, I would expect at the bare minimum for each class to have 6 viable builds for sPvP. If, god forbid, we have a build that uses each core trait as well, I would expect there to be 9 viable builds per class for sPvP. 22.5/54 (giving them the benefit of the doubt) . . . that's a 41.6% Arena net. I think no matter what school you go to, that's a failing grade.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSin.5682 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    **Plz, take build diversity lesson's from Gw1....plzzzz. **

    Gw1 build diversity would never work on conquest.

    In fact, the whole reason GW2 sucks at build diversity is because of how optimized conquest is. There is simple "no space" for creative builds.
    You always need a man for some role.

    Who is talking about conquest maps? Besides any maps can be tweaked & adapted.
    My point stands.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Harrier firebrand, menders firebrand, and 1 shot guard.

    Harrier Firebrand is not a viable build.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Harrier firebrand, menders firebrand, and 1 shot guard.

    Harrier Firebrand is not a viable build.

    Yes it is.

    Against 5 capable, high-level opponents harrier FB falls off hard compared to full mender. But by the time you reach that, you're top 100 or higher on both NA and EU. So I'd say it's viable due to a lack of high end players capable of recognising and punishing it properly.

  • @Etheri.5406 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Harrier firebrand, menders firebrand, and 1 shot guard.

    Harrier Firebrand is not a viable build.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Harrier firebrand, menders firebrand, and 1 shot guard.

    Harrier Firebrand is not a viable build.

    Yes it is.

    Against 5 capable, high-level opponents harrier FB falls off hard compared to full mender. But by the time you reach that, you're top 100 or higher on both NA and EU. So I'd say it's viable due to a lack of high end players capable of recognising and punishing it properly.

    I basically only play in-houses and the occasional AT. In the games where there are actual good players, harrier Firebrand just crumbles. Everything is viable in ranked, people are awful.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Etheri.5406Etheri.5406 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Etheri.5406 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Harrier firebrand, menders firebrand, and 1 shot guard.

    Harrier Firebrand is not a viable build.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Harrier firebrand, menders firebrand, and 1 shot guard.

    Harrier Firebrand is not a viable build.

    Yes it is.

    Against 5 capable, high-level opponents harrier FB falls off hard compared to full mender. But by the time you reach that, you're top 100 or higher on both NA and EU. So I'd say it's viable due to a lack of high end players capable of recognising and punishing it properly.

    I basically only play in-houses and the occasional AT. In the games where there are actual good players, harrier Firebrand just crumbles. Everything is viable in ranked, people are awful.

    I agree. If you play in-house and AT's against coordinated teams; almost all builds go out the window. It's also no suprise mender is WAY better the moment you can actually rely on that necro in your team.

    I was sitting at ~1700 on harrier FB. Even there it's a tossup between ending up in games with predominantly top players where it's weaker than menders; and getting a random 1500 rated scourge who watches the entire enemy team stealth yet proceeds to walk, alone, onto the mid node and dies without using a single dodge or skill. And then i'd much rather be harrier than menders.

    I don't deny harrier falls off hard against 5 man coordinated, good teams. It's just that these are exceptionally rare in ranked.

    And I think if we're going for high-end AT scene, build diversity in general is MUCH lower than what is discussed here. But I also think there's some merit to having; lets call them somewhat viable meme builds as available options for ranked. Even if they're viable because players don't know how to deal with them; they're effective enough to be played.

  • @Etheri.5406 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Etheri.5406 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Harrier firebrand, menders firebrand, and 1 shot guard.

    Harrier Firebrand is not a viable build.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:
    Mesmer- 3
    Necromancer- 2
    Ele- 0.5
    Thief- 3
    Engineer- 3
    Ranger- 3
    Revenant- 1
    Guardian- 3
    Warrior- 2
    Remember when we were happy to have 2 builds for war and necro and one for the rest? This makes me so happy.

    In what world does guardian have three different viable build? Are you counting core GS and core hammer as two different builds?

    Harrier firebrand, menders firebrand, and 1 shot guard.

    Harrier Firebrand is not a viable build.

    Yes it is.

    Against 5 capable, high-level opponents harrier FB falls off hard compared to full mender. But by the time you reach that, you're top 100 or higher on both NA and EU. So I'd say it's viable due to a lack of high end players capable of recognising and punishing it properly.

    I basically only play in-houses and the occasional AT. In the games where there are actual good players, harrier Firebrand just crumbles. Everything is viable in ranked, people are awful.

    I agree. If you play in-house and AT's against coordinated teams; almost all builds go out the window. It's also no suprise mender is WAY better the moment you can actually rely on that necro in your team.

    I was sitting at ~1700 on harrier FB. Even there it's a tossup between ending up in games with predominantly top players where it's weaker than menders; and getting a random 1500 rated scourge who watches the entire enemy team stealth yet proceeds to walk, alone, onto the mid node and dies without using a single dodge or skill. And then i'd much rather be harrier than menders.

    I don't deny harrier falls off hard against 5 man coordinated, good teams. It's just that these are exceptionally rare in ranked.

    And I think if we're going for high-end AT scene, build diversity in general is MUCH lower than what is discussed here. But I also think there's some merit to having; lets call them somewhat viable meme builds as available options for ranked. Even if they're viable because players don't know how to deal with them; they're effective enough to be played.

    That is exactly what I'm saying though, current raked I the equivalent to silver a couple of seasons ago.
    Meaning, you can carry just by rotating correctly, you don't even need to play an optimized build. I'm not saying that harrier Firebrand isn't viable in ranked, I'm just saying that an 11k hp build in a meta where revenants are a go-to pick is never going to make it into real comps.

    Seems we are in agreement though, so let's just leave it at this.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:

    ...

    Revenant- 1

    ....
    what?! ... rev -0,25 to be fair
    why rev gets the worst downside of all classes ... less till no condiremove ... plz give that kitten other specs as well

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arkantos.7460 said:

    @Poelala.2830 said:
    The number of meta-tier builds for each class is as follows:

    ...

    Revenant- 1

    ....
    what?! ... rev -0,25 to be fair
    why rev gets the worst downside of all classes ... less till no condiremove ... plz give that kitten other specs as well

    Wrong. Rev is meta right now and it beats all classes except condi mirage and soul beast.

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