Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged] - Page 29 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

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  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Roughly 10,019 players have completed experiment two which is the one right before sigils are needed. These would be the players that are currently impacted. Although you’d have to account for how many of them have completed subsequent collections.

    Experiment Completion

    • Three: 4760
    • Four: 4071
    • Five: 3629
    • Six: 3407

    That’s a total of 103,135 sigils consumed amongst registered users. If you subtract the 23K bought by the “bad TP barons”, that comes to 80,135 sigils consumed outside of that. That’s an average of 2,357 per day since the episode’s release. This is much greater than the current supply you see on the TP.

    Look at those kitten numbers, half the people who completed step two haven't done step three. If that's not an indication of a problem, I don't know what is.

    But no, beep boop free market everything is fine.

    And? This doesn’t necessarily indicate a “problem” as there will be differences of completion rates for various steps in collections.

    For example:

    Roughly 20,721 gw2efficiency users have completed The Convergence of Sorrow I: Elegy but only 10,019 of them proceeded far enough into the requiem collection to get to the sigil part.

    Since half haven’t even done the first half of the requiem collection, does this indicate there’s an issue with that part? It must as you’re using the same reasoning to insinuate that there’s an issue with the second part.

    It may be indicate a problem because how many players out there are like myself and stopped when they realized the cost of those later steps, i know i did. Theres no point in me progressing further until this sigil is much loss costly than it is now, its to expensive to justify the cost of even bothering to get that far, and i do have enough to gold to buy the sigils.

    That would be speculation as to why there’s a difference but you can see the same thing on other collections.

    The price is an issue for you l, and others as you had mentioned, which is understandable. Fortunately it is coming down.

    Oh of course its a speculation, much of this thread is, well never have all the facts afterall, im just saying that its probably one of the larger causes. im fairly certain the average player doesnt have enough to gold to outright buy a legendary(as i do), hell id honestly be surprised if the average player had more than 500g.
    And yes thankfully it is coming down, if it ever gets to around 5g ill be happy to purchase it for that price.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Roughly 10,019 players have completed experiment two which is the one right before sigils are needed. These would be the players that are currently impacted. Although you’d have to account for how many of them have completed subsequent collections.

    Experiment Completion

    • Three: 4760
    • Four: 4071
    • Five: 3629
    • Six: 3407

    That’s a total of 103,135 sigils consumed amongst registered users. If you subtract the 23K bought by the “bad TP barons”, that comes to 80,135 sigils consumed outside of that. That’s an average of 2,357 per day since the episode’s release. This is much greater than the current supply you see on the TP.

    Look at those kitten numbers, half the people who completed step two haven't done step three. If that's not an indication of a problem, I don't know what is.

    But no, beep boop free market everything is fine.

    And? This doesn’t necessarily indicate a “problem” as there will be differences of completion rates for various steps in collections.

    For example:

    Roughly 20,721 gw2efficiency users have completed The Convergence of Sorrow I: Elegy but only 10,019 of them proceeded far enough into the requiem collection to get to the sigil part.

    Since half haven’t even done the first half of the requiem collection, does this indicate there’s an issue with that part? It must as you’re using the same reasoning to insinuate that there’s an issue with the second part.

    It may be indicate a problem because how many players out there are like myself and stopped when they realized the cost of those later steps, i know i did. Theres no point in me progressing further until this sigil is much loss costly than it is now, its to expensive to justify the cost of even bothering to get that far, and i do have enough to gold to buy the sigils.

    That would be speculation as to why there’s a difference but you can see the same thing on other collections.

    The price is an issue for you l, and others as you had mentioned, which is understandable. Fortunately it is coming down.

    Oh of course its a speculation, much of this thread is, well never have all the facts afterall, im just saying that its probably one of the larger causes. im fairly certain the average player doesnt have enough to gold to outright buy a legendary(as i do), hell id honestly be surprised if the average player had more than 500g.
    And yes thankfully it is coming down, if it ever gets to around 5g ill be happy to purchase it for that price.

    Unfortunately even if the cost was still 2 silver it is still highly likely the sigil supply/ demand situation would be bottlenecked. In fact that would undoubtedly of highlighted the actual issue with this collection... supply simply cannot be guaranteed in any significant amounts in respect of demand... so as players loose interest as time goes on of course prices will fall, but when it drops sufficiently let's hope a large enough pool of sigils has had enough time to build up :)

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:

    • Existing stock in player inventories.

    There was a total of 22.4k sigils available on the TP before the patch. According to gw2efficiency alone 103135 sigils were used in the next few days, that's way higher than the available global Supply on the TP. Maybe most of those people from gw2efficiency used their tomes to get their sigils? 63 tomes = 1 sigil, that's 1575 tomes of knowledge for all the sigils you need for the achievement, I don't think they had so many sigils just lying around "just in case", so some of them must've been from tomes (because nobody bought more than 22.4k.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    We're talking about a collection that is part of the story in a living world episode. Everyone is meant to be able to complete the story, this is evidenced by the frequency with which anet nerfs story cheeves and bosses bc not everyone can complete them with every class. So if the situation with the superior sigil of nullification caused ppl to look at the story and say 'nope, not doing that', that is a negative, unhealthy outcome for the game . . .

  • Haleydawn.3764Haleydawn.3764 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    We're talking about a collection that is part of the story in a living world episode. Everyone is meant to be able to complete the story, this is evidenced by the frequency with which anet nerfs story cheeves and bosses bc not everyone can complete them with every class.

    The story, is nerfed. Something that actually stops you from progessing the Story, can be nerfed or relaxed. A collection which has no standing in your path to finish the story is not a hard road block. You just don't like the price.

    Better get a wriggle on.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Did a quick count of how many sigils of nullification were sold on the TP from 19 September and up to 22 October. 81229 sigils were sold TOTAL game wide. This includes re-sells (those buying on first day, then selling on later dates when the price was higher), so the grand total of sigils that were used by players towards the new collection (or anything else) is much lower.

  • Haleydawn.3764Haleydawn.3764 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Did a quick count of how many sigils of nullification were sold on the TP from 19 September and up to 22 October. 81229 sigils were sold TOTAL game wide. This includes re-sells (those buying on first day, then selling on later dates when the price was higher), so the grand total of sigils that were used by players towards the new collection (or anything else) is much lower.

    Below is a Sigils used comparison, based on stats from Gw2efficiency, (These numbers will be higher as only a fraction of the player base actually use Gw2E)
    Oct 7th
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/707959#Comment_707959
    Requiem: Experiment 1- Completed by 9,525
    Requiem: Experiment 2 -Completed by 8,449
    Requiem: Experiment 3 - (10 sigils needed). Completed by 3,844
    Requiem: Experiment 4 - (5 Sigils needed) Completed by 3,221
    Requiem: Experiment 5 - (5 Sigils needed) Completed by 2,839
    Requiem: Experiment 6 (Full completion of CoS Requiem)- (5 Sigils needed) Completed by 2,585

    Today, Oct 22nd (2 weeks and 1 day later)
    Requiem: Experiment 1- Completed by 11,131
    Requiem: Experiment 2 -Completed by 10,033
    Requiem: Experiment 3 - (10 sigils needed). Completed by 4,774 (930 accounts in 15 days = 9300 Sigils)
    Requiem: Experiment 4 - (5 Sigils needed) Completed by 4,082 (861 accounts in 15 days = 4305 Sigils)
    Requiem: Experiment 5 - (5 Sigils needed) Completed by 3,639 (800 accounts in 15 days = 4000 Sigils)
    Requiem: Experiment 6 (Full completion of CoS Requiem)- (5 Sigils needed) Completed by 3,412 (827 accounts in 15 days = 4135 Sigils.)

    Total sigils used in 15days = 21740. But sure, the supply on the TP is too low, lets ignore the fact many players instantly sell on the TP...

    Better get a wriggle on.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    We're talking about a collection that is part of the story in a living world episode. Everyone is meant to be able to complete the story, this is evidenced by the frequency with which anet nerfs story cheeves and bosses bc not everyone can complete them with every class.

    You just don't like the price.

    Source? I mean other than the fact that I keep telling you the price is irrelevant and regardless had no effect on me personally . . .

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Did a quick count of how many sigils of nullification were sold on the TP from 19 September and up to 22 October. 81229 sigils were sold TOTAL game wide. This includes re-sells (those buying on first day, then selling on later dates when the price was higher), so the grand total of sigils that were used by players towards the new collection (or anything else) is much lower.

    It’s not when you look at the number of players that completed each step of the collection and how many sigils were required like I did. I don’t know where you got your figure.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:
    Below is a Sigils used comparison, based on stats from Gw2efficiency, (These numbers will be higher as only a fraction of the player base actually use Gw2E)

    The 81229 number is total sales on the TP, not only listings, it includes selling instantly. It's the total/global number of SALES.
    The total number of sigils used by the gw2efficiency players is 103135 sigils.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Did a quick count of how many sigils of nullification were sold on the TP from 19 September and up to 22 October. 81229 sigils were sold TOTAL game wide. This includes re-sells (those buying on first day, then selling on later dates when the price was higher), so the grand total of sigils that were used by players towards the new collection (or anything else) is much lower.

    It’s not when you look at the number of players that completed each step of the collection and how many sigils were required like I did. I don’t know where you got your figure.

    I get my figure from the API directly, which includes the entire playerbase, not only gw2efficiency accounts. You can go here: www.gw2bltc.com type Superior Sigil of Nullification in the search bar, press enter. Then click on the sigil, click on the cog to enter settings, select "SOLD", select group by day, and you will get a nice graph of TP data about the actual SALES of the sigil from 19 September to 22 October. The grand total of sigils sold in that time frame, from the ENTIRE playerbase, is 81229 sigils.

    The number you got from gw2efficiency is 103135 which is much higher than the number of sigils sold from the TP. This means those gw2efficiency players that finished the achievement either used Sigils that they had stored in their banks, or they used Tomes of Knowledge to level a character to 63, get the sigil, delete, rinse repeat. Another "method" is by buying weapons that contain the sigil

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Did a quick count of how many sigils of nullification were sold on the TP from 19 September and up to 22 October. 81229 sigils were sold TOTAL game wide. This includes re-sells (those buying on first day, then selling on later dates when the price was higher), so the grand total of sigils that were used by players towards the new collection (or anything else) is much lower.

    It’s not when you look at the number of players that completed each step of the collection and how many sigils were required like I did. I don’t know where you got your figure.

    I get my figure from the API directly, which includes the entire playerbase, not only gw2efficiency accounts. You can go here: www.gw2bltc.com type Superior Sigil of Nullification in the search bar, press enter. Then click on the sigil, click on the cog to enter settings, select "SOLD", select group by day, and you will get a nice graph of TP data about the actual SALES of the sigil from 19 September to 22 October. The grand total of sigils sold in that time frame, from the ENTIRE playerbase, is 81229 sigils.

    The number you got from gw2efficiency is 103135 which is much higher than the number of sigils sold from the TP. This means those gw2efficiency players that finished the achievement either used Sigils that they had stored in their banks, or they used Tomes of Knowledge to level a character to 63, get the sigil, delete, rinse repeat. Another "method" is by buying weapons that contain the sigil

    Ah. I didn’t realize their chart could be changed to do that. I wonder if it captured that large buy order I put in a couple weeks ago for like 30K.

    I also want to point out that those ~81K sigils sold also came from those that had some in storage, farmed on alts, or got drops that had them.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Did a quick count of how many sigils of nullification were sold on the TP from 19 September and up to 22 October. 81229 sigils were sold TOTAL game wide. This includes re-sells (those buying on first day, then selling on later dates when the price was higher), so the grand total of sigils that were used by players towards the new collection (or anything else) is much lower.

    It’s not when you look at the number of players that completed each step of the collection and how many sigils were required like I did. I don’t know where you got your figure.

    I get my figure from the API directly, which includes the entire playerbase, not only gw2efficiency accounts. You can go here: www.gw2bltc.com type Superior Sigil of Nullification in the search bar, press enter. Then click on the sigil, click on the cog to enter settings, select "SOLD", select group by day, and you will get a nice graph of TP data about the actual SALES of the sigil from 19 September to 22 October. The grand total of sigils sold in that time frame, from the ENTIRE playerbase, is 81229 sigils.

    The number you got from gw2efficiency is 103135 which is much higher than the number of sigils sold from the TP. This means those gw2efficiency players that finished the achievement either used Sigils that they had stored in their banks, or they used Tomes of Knowledge to level a character to 63, get the sigil, delete, rinse repeat. Another "method" is by buying weapons that contain the sigil

    Ah. I didn’t realize their chart could be changed to do that. I wonder if it captured that large buy order I put in a couple weeks ago for like 30K.

    I don't count orders, only units sold.

    These are all the weapons that contain the sigil and how many times each one was sold during the timeframe:
    Arc was sold 7922 times
    Berserker's Iron Dagger of Nullification was sold 4 times
    Berserker's Soft Wood Short Bow of Nullification was sold 7 times
    Berserker's Soft Wood Warhorn of Nullification was sold 13 times
    Cleric's Soft Wood Longbow of Nullification was sold 597 times
    Cleric's Soft Wood Short Bow of Nullification (level 75) was sold 567 times
    Cleric's Soft Wood Short Bow of Nullification (level 64) was sold 178 times
    Eidolon was sold 10 times
    Grimward was sold 2014 times
    Ilya was sold 16 times
    Lyss was sold 32 times
    Mystic Barridace was sold 95 times
    Mystic Claymore was sold 164 times
    Mystic Pistol was sold 41 times
    Naegling was sold 30 times
    Rampager's Iron Axe of Nullification was sold 52 times
    Rampager's Iron Shield of Nullification was sold 60 times
    Rampager's Iron Sword of Nullification was sold 47 times
    Rampager's Soft Wood Longbow of Nullification was sold 637 times
    Rampager's Soft Wood Warhorn of Nullification was sold 88 times
    Reaver of the Mists was sold 54 times
    Soulshard was sold 2497 times
    The Anomaly was sold 53 times
    Vision of the Mists was sold 37 times
    Wall of the Mists was sold 33 times

    Total: 15248
    Assuming NOBODY bought these, salvaged them, and sold the sigil (which is unlikely), this brings the grand total of Sigils of Nullification to 96477. Again, the actual number of sigils used will be SIGNIFICANTLY lower. All the sigils sold on the TP, and all the weapons sold on the TP that contained the sigil, do not amount to the number required just by the gw2efficiency players. It's a couple thousand sigils behind, ONLY for the gw2efficiency people, which are a fraction of the entire playerbase. So no, there is NOT enough supply of this sigil.

  • Tanner Blackfeather.6509Tanner Blackfeather.6509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    I'd like to point out that if I've understand things correctly the API does not tell us actual sales, but only existing orders. Tracking sites then compare frequent updates. This means that it can't actually distingish between a sale and someone dropping an order, and they won't even notice an order that happen to be both placed and filled between updates.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2018

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Did a quick count of how many sigils of nullification were sold on the TP from 19 September and up to 22 October. 81229 sigils were sold TOTAL game wide. This includes re-sells (those buying on first day, then selling on later dates when the price was higher), so the grand total of sigils that were used by players towards the new collection (or anything else) is much lower.

    It’s not when you look at the number of players that completed each step of the collection and how many sigils were required like I did. I don’t know where you got your figure.

    I get my figure from the API directly, which includes the entire playerbase, not only gw2efficiency accounts. You can go here: www.gw2bltc.com type Superior Sigil of Nullification in the search bar, press enter. Then click on the sigil, click on the cog to enter settings, select "SOLD", select group by day, and you will get a nice graph of TP data about the actual SALES of the sigil from 19 September to 22 October. The grand total of sigils sold in that time frame, from the ENTIRE playerbase, is 81229 sigils.

    The number you got from gw2efficiency is 103135 which is much higher than the number of sigils sold from the TP. This means those gw2efficiency players that finished the achievement either used Sigils that they had stored in their banks, or they used Tomes of Knowledge to level a character to 63, get the sigil, delete, rinse repeat. Another "method" is by buying weapons that contain the sigil

    Ah. I didn’t realize their chart could be changed to do that. I wonder if it captured that large buy order I put in a couple weeks ago for like 30K.

    I don't count orders, only units sold.

    These are all the weapons that contain the sigil and how many times each one was sold during the timeframe:
    Arc was sold 7922 times
    Berserker's Iron Dagger of Nullification was sold 4 times
    Berserker's Soft Wood Short Bow of Nullification was sold 7 times
    Berserker's Soft Wood Warhorn of Nullification was sold 13 times
    Cleric's Soft Wood Longbow of Nullification was sold 597 times
    Cleric's Soft Wood Short Bow of Nullification (level 75) was sold 567 times
    Cleric's Soft Wood Short Bow of Nullification (level 64) was sold 178 times
    Eidolon was sold 10 times
    Grimward was sold 2014 times
    Ilya was sold 16 times
    Lyss was sold 32 times
    Mystic Barridace was sold 95 times
    Mystic Claymore was sold 164 times
    Mystic Pistol was sold 41 times
    Naegling was sold 30 times
    Rampager's Iron Axe of Nullification was sold 52 times
    Rampager's Iron Shield of Nullification was sold 60 times
    Rampager's Iron Sword of Nullification was sold 47 times
    Rampager's Soft Wood Longbow of Nullification was sold 637 times
    Rampager's Soft Wood Warhorn of Nullification was sold 88 times
    Reaver of the Mists was sold 54 times
    Soulshard was sold 2497 times
    The Anomaly was sold 53 times
    Vision of the Mists was sold 37 times
    Wall of the Mists was sold 33 times

    Total: 15248
    Assuming NOBODY bought these, salvaged them, and sold the sigil (which is unlikely), this brings the grand total of Sigils of Nullification to 96477. Again, the actual number of sigils used will be SIGNIFICANTLY lower. All the sigils sold on the TP, and all the weapons sold on the TP that contained the sigil, do not amount to the number required just by the gw2efficiency players. It's a couple thousand sigils behind, ONLY for the gw2efficiency people, which are a fraction of the entire playerbase. So no, there is NOT enough supply of this sigil.

    You’re ignoring all buy orders that were filled. Then there are those that obtained them for personal use without relying on the TP. There are also all of the sales which occurred between the intervals that the data was tracked.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    You’re ignoring all buy orders that were filled. Then there are those that obtained them for personal use without relying on the TP. There are also all of the sales which occurred between the intervals that the data was tracked.

    Indeed. We only see a fraction of the sigils used.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • @Dante.1763 said:

    if it ever gets to around 5g ill be happy to purchase it for that price.

    If you don't mind waiting for 5g, I recommend waiting just a bit longer, because the price will drop more.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

    To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . .

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

    To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . .

    This line of argument doesn't really work for you ... because these people have given up on this content for one reason; gold. Not because it's hard, or because it's a boring grind, but because of gold. You aren't ever going to sell the idea to any reasonable player that Anet shouldn't be doing content like this because people aren't willing to spend the gold to do it. I mean, you can make that argument about ANY content that requires someone to spend some gold to get an item ... this isn't a new approach for the game and it won't be the last.

    It's also worth noting that in this discussion, you have severely blurred any boundaries that exist for the purpose of content. There is a big difference between people choosing to exclude themselves from content vs. people that can't or struggle to do content. Blurring those lines, then accusing Anet of making self-excluded content inaccessible to people is dishonest. EVERYONE has access to complete the Requim armor quest who has PoF. It's simply not honest to present this like the people 'can't complete it because it's unfair, or access to sigils (which have always been accessible, to the CREDIT of the people that are flipping them).

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2018

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

    To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . .

    They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that.

    Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2018

    Then you are just exceptional and exceptions should be the last thing Anet tries to accommodate; that's not a sustainable approach to doing anything. There isn't a reason to let principles guide how you spend gold ingame. There is no point to a moral protest here, other than to deny you something you want. Being sensitive to what amounts to common practice in MMO's is strange behaviour for an MMO player.

    I mean, anyone can make up some reason to not do content ... how does anyone reasonably expect an organization to respond to those unique, self-imposed reasons? It's a waste of their time and frankly, no MMO works that way anyways.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    if it ever gets to around 5g ill be happy to purchase it for that price.

    If you don't mind waiting for 5g, I recommend waiting just a bit longer, because the price will drop more.

    Oh, i am waiting, as i said i stopped working on the chapter completely over the cost of this sigil. Knowing that i cant complete the collection due to my objections(and lack of being able to actually go about obtaining because i dont wvw or pvp and therefor dont have stacks of tomes sitting around) on how this sigil is obtained has killed off my interest in the content until the sigil is much cheaper.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • FaboBabo.3581FaboBabo.3581 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    @FaboBabo.3581 said:

    The thing you dont get is following ; They are still avaible , which means either following
    1: Everyone who wanted the armor has it allready
    2: The ones that still want the armor dont have enough Gold.

    -> Once the item cant be obtained by TP it's going to be problematic.

    Farming something over Charakter Leveling is kind off a common strategy right now.
    Material for Legy / Black Lion Keys + anything i dont know about.

    Btw ; i had one sigil on one of my alts , guess what i did ?
    I insta sold it. This won't count to those 50 avaible sigils.
    Why i insta sold ? I knew about situation and wanted to make one guy happy + i wanted some fast gold.

    Wow you reported THAT ?!
    That's not even rude....

    "wow , who cares farm gold and gg?

    Everything has a price and in GW2 actually the Players , may help deciding about it.

    If u need a lot of old for your goals, you got a lot of Work."

    1. The thing you dont get is following ; They are still avaible , which means either following. Last time when I checked, the Invisible shoes were still available on the TP. And this raises some questions regarding your justification: "The ones that still want the armor dont have enough Gold." - what was the reason to push the prices in order to have so many players not willing to invest so much gold for such a common achievement? Again, it seems that not the fact the item is on the TP is the issue. The issue is related with the reason the price is so high.
    2. Farming something over Charakter Leveling is kind off a common strategy right now. Material for Legy / Black Lion Keys + anything i dont know about.
      LOL!! You try to put an equal sign between this armor and a legendary armor/weapon? Are you really serious? And, for BL keys you can do it and to stop after 2-3-10. But for this achievement you need 25. That means raising 25 characters to the level needed for the Sigil. With what continuation? Delete the character and create another. Again, are you serious? BTW - for the BL keys, you can do it once per week. In less than 15 minutes. I don't consider this farming - this is much more as a change of gameplay.
    3. You sold ONE Sigil. Why you don't sold 25? To be sure you truly helped ONE player to have the achievement? But, contrary with what you believe, this did not make that guy happy. He only bought the item. Well, not many players want to do that - aka to pay no matter how much for an achievement. As you observe, I use the word "achievement". The armor itself is not so important.
    4. Again - the farming is not something advertised by this game. If you want to farm so badly, I think this is not a game for you.
    5. If u need a lot of old for your goals, you got a lot of Work - this is priceless =). If I perform a lot of work, I expect a lot of real money as reward. I don't think I'm insane if I consider some pixels (even in a form of "lot of gold") to not be be a proper reward for a lot of work. I don't want to be rude, but if you have the proper age, try to find a job. You will see that for your work you usually expect a different thing that some ingame gold. And if you don't have the legal age for a job, then try to not use the word "work" when you try to lecture us.

    Lol
    1. So again Price is the issue ; work (ingame) for your goals is my answer
    2. You could still buy em on TP instead of farming ;)
    3. I dont have 25 of them , if i hads somewhere I'd probably sell em. If that guy isnt happy he saved 3 g or something , well than it's still k for me.
    4. You dont even need to "farm" in reality. Do your dailies etc. and dont spend randomely gold and u'll have it in like 7 days or something?
    5. There is in game work , and there is real life work. Then there is private work for your own, which won't give u any money, am i right? Not any kind of work a human is doing rewards with money. This is a very narrow-minded statement.

    Ur not doing work in relationships? Ur not doing work for ur own when moving to a new house?
    Jeez

    Mirage since Day 1 - It got better!

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

    To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . .

    They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that.

    Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons.

    Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ?

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Then you are just exceptional

    They're really not though. You've just chosen to blind yourself to anyone who possesses any motives other than your own . . .

    and exceptions should be the last thing Anet tries to accommodate; that's not a sustainable approach to doing anything. There isn't a reason to let principles guide how you spend gold ingame. There is no point to a moral protest here, other than to deny you something you want. Being sensitive to what amounts to common practice in MMO's is strange behaviour for an MMO player.

    You're just confused here, which I suppose is unsurprising, considering. The number of ppl in the world who legitimately do not enjoy screwing other ppl over is not small. It's not a protest, it's an actually unpleasant thing to be associated with and does in fact run contrary to the original principles of the game though ofc it's possible those may have changed . . .

    I mean, anyone can make up some reason to not do content ... how does anyone reasonably expect an organization to respond to those unique, self-imposed reasons? It's a waste of their time and frankly, no MMO works that way anyways.

    I am unable to see the relevance of this to the issue at hand . . .

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

    To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . .

    This line of argument doesn't really work for you ... because these people have given up on this content for one reason; gold. Not because it's hard, or because it's a boring grind, but because of gold. You aren't ever going to sell the idea to any reasonable player that Anet shouldn't be doing content like this because people aren't willing to spend the gold to do it. I mean, you can make that argument about ANY content that requires someone to spend some gold to get an item ... this isn't a new approach for the game and it won't be the last.

    It's also worth noting that in this discussion, you have severely blurred any boundaries that exist for the purpose of content. There is a big difference between people choosing to exclude themselves from content vs. people that can't or struggle to do content. Blurring those lines, then accusing Anet of making self-excluded content inaccessible to people is dishonest. EVERYONE has access to complete the Requim armor quest who has PoF. It's simply not honest to present this like the people 'can't complete it because it's unfair, or access to sigils (which have always been accessible, to the CREDIT of the people that are flipping them).

    Again your argument centres around price being the issue... it would not matter if the sigil cost 20gold or 2 silver the fact remains players are unable to complete the set when they want because there is insufficient numbers in the market and no viable way to stimulate supply outside of luck pools. Perhaps if the sigil price had not changed from pre release value you would have less room to manoeuvre your defence of such a poor content design decision. Starving supply is nothing more than the control mechanism to help keep an artificially inflated market price stay inflated as long as possible and slowing completion rate of the set by way of unfairly limiting the number of players able to go to this free market and obtain enough sigil whenever they choose at whatever price it may cost them.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    We got two different armor sets, without having to spend a gem, as part of a popular story set in a popular map. That should have been cause for celebration.

    Well isn't it ironic how buying gemstore armor with gold actually turned out being cheaper...

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2018

    I insist folks: as long as the sigils remain at the 9 to 12G boundary, alt-farmers will keep supplying them. When crazy ppl ready to pay all that much are done, and the prices start to go down, no alt-farmer will bother, and ppl that weren't ready to pay those prices, but still want to get the armor, will have to start playing 25 alts to lvl 64.

  • @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    I insist folks: as long as the sigils remain at the 9 to 12G boundary, alt-farmers will keep supplying them. When crazy ppl ready to pay all that much are done, and the prices start to go down, no alt-farmer will bother, and ppl that weren't ready to pay those prices, but still want to get the armor, will have to start playing 25 alts to lvl 64.

    Doesn't that scream bad design on Anet's part though?

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    no viable way to stimulate supply outside of luck pools.

    Again true and again misleading. There's literally no supply of a lot of things, outside of luck pools. For example, the budget power rune, Strength has a nearly identical luck pool as the Nullification sigil (that is: various pieces of gear that drop randomly from various sources), plus forging major/rare upgrade items. And yet historically, Strength runes run cheaper than Scholar, despite the latter having a non-random recipe. (To be fair, the recipe depends on a historically pricey material.)

    That is also misleading, because the luck pool isn't identical. I am salvaging almost every exotic i get, and i keep all the runes and sigils in bank - i do not vendor them. And yet, after playing since the beginning, i've had only 7 sigils of Nullification. I also had like ten times more runes of strength, even though (unlike with Nullification) i have been using those for many builds i had in the past, and even sold some.
    Seriously, i even have more unused Sigils of Force.

    I didn't need to check the price on TP in the beginning, i already knew there were going to be major problems the moment i checked my bank and realized how few of those i had.

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    To me, the only important issue is: people are frustrated at what should have been the capstone of an otherwise incredible story. We got two different armor sets, without having to spend a gem, as part of a popular story set in a popular map. That should have been cause for celebration.

    Instead it's been a source of rancor and anger. Ultimately, it doesn't matter in the least why the sigils cost a lot on the TP nor whether anyone can obtain all they want when they want them. Folks who aren't economists just see that they don't have any choice except to buy from the TP, at a price that seems crazy high compared to similar items.

    ANet's great at figuring out the numbers and I think it's usually safe to presume that they know better than we do about the size of faucets, can predict demand better than we can, and can anticipate market values more accurately. Where they tend to miss the boat: forgetting that most players don't care about the math; they just care that there's something in their way.

    tl;dr ANet builds a great new pistol and then shoots themself in the foot with it.

    Agreed. I do remember some of the forum talks with a certain economy dev long ago, that clearly showed that for Anet the impact of the economy on player enjoyment was a factor they almost never took into consideration. I'm disappointed that things are apparently still the same now.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2018

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    I insist folks: as long as the sigils remain at the 9 to 12G boundary, alt-farmers will keep supplying them. When crazy ppl ready to pay all that much are done, and the prices start to go down, no alt-farmer will bother, and ppl that weren't ready to pay those prices, but still want to get the armor, will have to start playing 25 alts to lvl 64.

    Maybe. Half a year from now however not many players will still care. And even those that willcare won't think better of Anet then.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

    To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . .

    They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that.

    Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons.

    Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ?

    Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them.

    Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Then you are just exceptional and exceptions should be the last thing Anet tries to accommodate; that's not a sustainable approach to doing anything. There isn't a reason to let principles guide how you spend gold ingame. There is no point to a moral protest here, other than to deny you something you want. Being sensitive to what amounts to common practice in MMO's is strange behaviour for an MMO player.

    I mean, anyone can make up some reason to not do content ... how does anyone reasonably expect an organization to respond to those unique, self-imposed reasons? It's a waste of their time and frankly, no MMO works that way anyways.

    Guess, I’m the exception too.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

    To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . .

    They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that.

    Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons.

    Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ?

    Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them.

    Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to.

    In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . .

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    I insist folks: as long as the sigils remain at the 9 to 12G boundary, alt-farmers will keep supplying them. When crazy ppl ready to pay all that much are done, and the prices start to go down, no alt-farmer will bother, and ppl that weren't ready to pay those prices, but still want to get the armor, will have to start playing 25 alts to lvl 64.

    I share your frustration, but a couple of points: First, there is no reason to believe the price will go up so ppl with tomes to level alts and the will to use those tomes to get sigils to sell would have already done so. Second, as the price drops the sigil becomes more available to ppl whose only impediment is the price, so they would not have to level 25 alts to get the sigils . . .

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    I insist folks: as long as the sigils remain at the 9 to 12G boundary, alt-farmers will keep supplying them. When crazy ppl ready to pay all that much are done, and the prices start to go down, no alt-farmer will bother, and ppl that weren't ready to pay those prices, but still want to get the armor, will have to start playing 25 alts to lvl 64.

    I share your frustration, but a couple of points: First, there is no reason to believe the price will go up so ppl with tomes to level alts and the will to use those tomes to get sigils to sell would have already done so. Second, as the price drops the sigil becomes more available to ppl whose only impediment is the price, so they would not have to level 25 alts to get the sigils . . .

    As the price drops the people who are leveling alts to sell sigils will stop doing that, which is his point.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Then you are just exceptional and exceptions should be the last thing Anet tries to accommodate; that's not a sustainable approach to doing anything. There isn't a reason to let principles guide how you spend gold ingame. There is no point to a moral protest here, other than to deny you something you want. Being sensitive to what amounts to common practice in MMO's is strange behaviour for an MMO player.

    I mean, anyone can make up some reason to not do content ... how does anyone reasonably expect an organization to respond to those unique, self-imposed reasons? It's a waste of their time and frankly, no MMO works that way anyways.

    Guess, I’m the exception too.

    Yup, the two whole guys ... or the 20 ... or the 200 ... it doesn't matter. Farming mats directly is not well supported in this game BECAUSE of how the market is intended to work.

    Even that being the case ... if you REALLY insist, you can farm those sigils. You STILL have the access to get those sigils how you decide from the options available. If you decided to take the long path, that is not a compelling reason for Anet to reconsider how they have implemented this skin-obtaining content.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    Then you are just exceptional and exceptions should be the last thing Anet tries to accommodate; that's not a sustainable approach to doing anything. There isn't a reason to let principles guide how you spend gold ingame. There is no point to a moral protest here, other than to deny you something you want. Being sensitive to what amounts to common practice in MMO's is strange behaviour for an MMO player.

    I mean, anyone can make up some reason to not do content ... how does anyone reasonably expect an organization to respond to those unique, self-imposed reasons? It's a waste of their time and frankly, no MMO works that way anyways.

    Guess, I’m the exception too.

    Yup, the two whole guys ... or the 20 ... or the 200 ... it doesn't matter. Farming mats directly is not well supported in this game BECAUSE of how the market is intended to work.

    Even that being the case ... if you REALLY insist, you can farm those sigils. You STILL have the access to get those sigils how you decide from the options available. If you decided to take the long path, that is not a compelling reason for Anet to reconsider how they have implemented this skin-obtaining content.

    Nah, I just personally stopped buying gems and forgo the skins. I just refuse to make any extra purchases with how this was Armor set implementation was designed.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2018

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

    To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . .

    They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that.

    Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons.

    Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ?

    Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them.

    Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to.

    In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . .

    Edit: Re-doing post

    You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this.

    Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

    To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . .

    They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that.

    Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons.

    Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ?

    Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them.

    Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to.

    In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . .

    Edit: Re-doing post

    You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this.

    Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things.

    Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ?

    I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . .

    The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . .

  • Urud.4925Urud.4925 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    Also, to continue the (good) Gop's reasoning: quitting a map/new content because you realise that you can't complete it, and quitting because you completed it and pass to something else, is also different because they leave you with a very different feeling: you're sad with the game/devs or happy for achieving something new.
    In any case, the time that we needed to play on this map to complete all the achievements was short, I agree. But leaving because you don't care anymore or because you made it, it's different.

    I think they had to put the sigil (or any other item they chose as material) as drop of Jahai. That way, we had to play a bit on the map (like in Kourna). It's not a bad map in the end, but it's useless to play there if you don't have anything meaningful to do.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

    To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . .

    They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that.

    Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons.

    Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ?

    Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them.

    Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to.

    In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . .

    Edit: Re-doing post

    You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this.

    Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things.

    Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ?

    I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . .

    The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . .

    You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites.

    While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anyone remembers the Superior Rune of Scavenging situation? The Rune is only acquired from drops, it's not crafted or acquired otherwise. With the September 2014 Feature Pack, they added the Treasure Hunter collection, which requires 4 of these Runes to be used at certain places of power (skill challenges). The price of the Rune exploded from a couple silver to 2 gold+ then it went into a decline until it reached vendor price again. You needed only 4, it was for a simple achievement, not for new Armor skin, but still the price exploded for a couple of months. The problem with the nullification is you need to complete events to finish the collection and it's unknown if the map will be populated enough when the price becomes reasonable.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Anyone remembers the Superior Rune of Scavenging situation? The Rune is only acquired from drops, it's not crafted or acquired otherwise. With the September 2014 Feature Pack, they added the Treasure Hunter collection, which requires 4 of these Runes to be used at certain places of power (skill challenges). The price of the Rune exploded from a couple silver to 2 gold+ then it went into a decline until it reached vendor price again. You needed only 4, it was for a simple achievement, not for new Armor skin, but still the price exploded for a couple of months. The problem with the nullification is you need to complete events to finish the collection and it's unknown if the map will be populated enough when the price becomes reasonable.

    My 2 cents are that Jahai will always have people, because of that very rare crystal infusion branded Shatterer drops and the permanent djinn tonic that May drop from the djinn meta.

  • Tyger.1637Tyger.1637 Member ✭✭✭

    @Urud.4925 said:
    Also, to continue the (good) Gop's reasoning: quitting a map/new content because you realise that you can't complete it, and quitting because you completed it and pass to something else, is also different because they leave you with a very different feeling: you're sad with the game/devs or happy for achieving something new.
    In any case, the time that we needed to play on this map to complete all the achievements was short, I agree. But leaving because you don't care anymore or because you made it, it's different.

    Also, since the armour is quite visual, instead of being a hallmark of cool ("oooo, that's quality armour") it can be more of a symbol of resentment; the exact opposite intention of the upgraded appearance. And this is also plays a small part in my reluctance to finish it; I'll probably not wear all (if any) of it, another markdown for its intended purpose. A bit like how I see players wearing the legendary precursor light armour chest piece in the openworld but never the full set of any of the others.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

    To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . .

    They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that.

    Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons.

    Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ?

    Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them.

    Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to.

    In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . .

    Edit: Re-doing post

    You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this.

    Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things.

    Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ?

    I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . .

    The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . .

    You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites.

    While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection.

    I feel your reading is inconsistent with what I posted . . .

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2018

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Haleydawn.3764 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    And I can totally use that argument against you to why would a sigil being expensive be unhealthy?

    Bc it made ppl stop playing the game . . .

    Source? (Outside of a mate of a mate guild member outright doesn't login and has said it is unequivocally because of the Convergence of Sorrow: Requiem.)

    I think you misunderstood. I didn't say quit the game, I said stop playing the game, and expanded upon what content I was referring to in the rest of the post. I am a bit offended to discover that you feel the ppl I play with don't matter though . . .

    And had they been able to complete the collection at a price that they felt reasonable they’d still have stopped playing the game anyway.

    To me, players completing content and players giving up on content before completing it are opposites not analogues . . .

    They’re two things that result in the same outcome as you described. You can put them as opposites of whatever spectrum you created but it still wouldn’t change that.

    Edit: Actually that assumes that they had anything to do with that outcome coming into realization in the first place. People stop playing content for various reasons.

    Completing something and giving up on it are the same thing bc you're done with it either way? Your position seems absurd, can you confirm that you did not misstate it . . ?

    Those are not opposites of each other. In no way did I ever say that they were the same. There are a multitude of reasons that players could stop playing content. Having completed the content or giving up on it are but two of them.

    Players that stopped playing the game over the sigils and not being able to complete the collection likely would have done the same thing had they been able to.

    In the first case content was created and enjoyed by the player, in the other case content was created and not enjoyed by the player. While it is true that both cases result in players no longer playing the content, enjoying/not enjoying and completing/not completing are in fact opposites. This is relevant bc it is the goal of a gaming company to create content that their players enjoy . . .

    Edit: Re-doing post

    You brought up the assertion that people stopped playing the game because of the collection with the sigils. There are many reasons that people stop playing the game. Whether they had completed the collection or not most likely would not have been an influencing factor in this.

    Among those reasons that could lead people to stop playing the game, there are bound to be opposites; it’s inevitable. The fact that there are opposites doesn’t matter. You can find opposites in everything depending on how hard you look or twist things.

    Can't tell if you're forgetful or just trolling, so let's recap (or you can just go back and reread the original posts, if you prefer). Someone asked me how this issue with the sigils was unhealthy for the game. I pointed out it was unhealthy for the game bc it made ppl stop playing, then specifically pointed out that I was referring to this particular story. A second person replied to my explanation and indicated that they had misread that as players quitting the game entirely, so I clarified again that I was only referring to the content I described in the original post. You quoted this second explanation, so presumably you had read what you quoted and understood what I was referring to, and you replied that they would have stopped playing anyway, once they finished the content. I said that wasn't a good analogy bc completing something and giving up on it are opposites. You said doesn't matter bc same outcome, I said that was absurd, and now you're saying whether they completed the content or not has no bearing on whether they would stop playing it . . ?

    I think you may have lost the train of thought somewhere along in there . . .

    The reason that stopping after completion and stopping before completion being opposite is impt is bc they literally define success or failure, for both the player and the content, as indicated in the post you've quoted for your most recent reply. You don't have to look hard or twist anything to notice that success and failure are opposites . . .

    You said the sigil being expensive made players stop playing the game. The other poster said “quit” but you disputed that even though they’re the same thing. I responded by saying that people who stopped/quit because of the collection would have done the same anyway. There are many reasons beyond just that collection as to why people stop playing. You then spun it onto something about opposites.

    While those two possible reasons are opposites it doesn’t change what I said that people still would have stopped playing regardless. That was also assuming that those two reasons were the cause in the first place. There’s likely more to it than simply stopping from playing the game over a very minor collection.

    I feel your reading is inconsistent with what I posted . . .

    Nope. Just read over everything again.

    You also assumed the collection was the major point of the episode and not being able to do it because of the high cost sigils meant players had no reason to do the episode.

    So if the situation with the superior sigil of nullification caused ppl to look at the story and say 'nope, not doing that', that is a negative, unhealthy outcome for the game . . .

    There are plenty of reasons to do the episodes as having collections tied to the completion of the story is very rare. The collection was just an ancillary task.

    If players stopped-quit playing the game over the sigil price, chances are they wouldn’t have been playing had the sigil been at a price they found reasonable. Players tend to stop playing when they have a lack of things they want to do.

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