how to ACTUALLY fix pvp

so after playing another game with my girl it kinda struck me what anet has to do to balance pvp:

Ban phase before the start of each match.

it could go like this:

1 minute before match starts each player has 30 seconds to ban (for example) 1 utility skill, 2 traits and maybe 1 rune. then each player gets another 30 seconds to adjust their build further after some of their traits or skills might be banned.

this would solve so many problems because:

1. it would solve most issues players have with certain classes. some players dislike fighting against class X so they can kinda nerf it a little bit. but of course you can also be nerfed yourself

2. it would increase build diversity by force. players would have to come up with backup builds in case their build gets hit hard with bans.

3. balance issues aren't quite as big of a problem.

the way I would imagine this pan out is that you can only click 1 enemy player and ban their stuff. not an entire class because sometimes there are 2 players with the same class in 1 game.

leave your thoughts and suggestions.

This solves nothing and is a terrible idea.

Add that and you won't have enough players to fill the top 250.

@everyman.4375 said:Add that and you won't have enough players to fill the top 250.

why? I'd still play. explain why you think everyone would quit.

I am going to ignore the fact that this is, no offense, horrible idea and ask: "How exactly would Rev go along with this?" Rev doesn't have utility choices.

EDIT: Rev doesn't even have Build choices, same for Thief and Ele if the player doesn't have HoT or PoF.

@bigo.9037 said:

@everyman.4375 said:Add that and you won't have enough players to fill the top 250.

Because some classes will just be unplayable and that's basicly the worst idea i've ever heard on PvP.

@"Alatar.7364" said:I am going to ignore the fact that this is, no offense, horrible idea and ask: "How exactly would Rev go along with this?" Rev doesn't have utility choices.

EDIT: Rev doesn't even have Build choices, same for Thief and Ele if the player doesn't have HoT or PoF.

okay yea revenant makes sense. perhaps I should say I mostly just wish this was implemented earlier in the game so anet would be able to balance around it. if other revenant legends were viable it would work though

@everyman.4375 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@everyman.4375 said:Add that and you won't have enough players to fill the top 250.

I can see how that would affect things like condition cleansing yea.. I wonder if there's a workaround for that..

truly anet fucked up a long time ago creating this unbalanced damage system where 1 of them is completely reliant on skills to get rid of conditions.

solution for pvp is to put me in charge of balance.im serious I would have this game whipped up into shape in no time.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:solution for pvp is to put me in charge of balance.im serious I would have this game kitten up into shape in no time.

and why should we believe you? :)

@bigo.9037 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:solution for pvp is to put me in charge of balance.im serious I would have this game kitten up into shape in no time.

cuz I am best

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:solution for pvp is to put me in charge of balance.im serious I would have this game kitten up into shape in no time.

And we would know who's to blame when we equip pitchfork/torch offhand.

@MyPuppy.8970 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:solution for pvp is to put me in charge of balance.im serious I would have this game kitten up into shape in no time.

I can neither confirm nor deny such allegations.

@bigo.9037 said:so after playing another game with my girl it kinda struck me what anet has to do to balance pvp:

Ban phase before the start of each match.

it could go like this:

1 minute before match starts each player has 30 seconds to ban (for example) 1 utility skill, 2 traits and maybe 1 rune. then each player gets another 30 seconds to adjust their build further after some of their traits or skills might be banned.

this would solve so many problems because:

1. it would solve most issues players have with certain classes. some players dislike fighting against class X so they can kinda nerf it a little bit. but of course you can also be nerfed yourself

2. it would increase build diversity by force. players would have to come up with backup builds in case their build gets hit hard with bans.

3. balance issues aren't quite as big of a problem.

the way I would imagine this pan out is that you can only click 1 enemy player and ban their stuff. not an entire class because sometimes there are 2 players with the same class in 1 game.

leave your thoughts and suggestions.

It does not work. Neither on a design or technical level. Example, guardian builds (both dps and heal) are centered around 2 skills, the heal skill and the elite. If you ban either skill the build is no longer functional. Same with most builds. There is typically one or two utilities that define the build. Without them The build cannot work.

From technical standpoint, you cannot block a specific utility mid game. What if the skill was already on someone’s bar and it was blocked? There is not enough time to ban and then change skills.

Lastly, this ban concept exist in MOBAs where you have 100 different heros to choose. GW2 only has 9 classes and a handful of meta builds. Even if you manage from design and technical standpoint to ban specific utilities, we will have even less effective builds to choose from.

He really believe this bs will 'fix pvp' ?xD

@otto.5684 said:

@bigo.9037 said:so after playing another game with my girl it kinda struck me what anet has to do to balance pvp:

Ban phase before the start of each match.

it could go like this:

1 minute before match starts each player has 30 seconds to ban (for example) 1 utility skill, 2 traits and maybe 1 rune. then each player gets another 30 seconds to adjust their build further after some of their traits or skills might be banned.

this would solve so many problems because:

1. it would solve most issues players have with certain classes. some players dislike fighting against class X so they can kinda nerf it a little bit. but of course you can also be nerfed yourself

2. it would increase build diversity by force. players would have to come up with backup builds in case their build gets hit hard with bans.

3. balance issues aren't quite as big of a problem.

the way I would imagine this pan out is that you can only click 1 enemy player and ban their stuff. not an entire class because sometimes there are 2 players with the same class in 1 game.

leave your thoughts and suggestions.

sure you can block utilities mid game. that's not impossible. just put the skill on 20 minute cooldown, make player pick another one.

you didn't read my post. I said you have 30 seconds to ban, 30 seconds to rearrange your build. I said utilities, not elite skills. utilities are the 7-8-9 skill slots.

also, other than condi cleanse like I pointed out, making you pick 2 different traits in your build isn't going to shatter the whole build. that's silly. btw, this idea was not set in stone it was just an example. you could alternatively just choose between being able to ban 2 normal traits or 1 grandmaster trait.

again other than condition cleansing skills and traits I still think this idea would increase build diversity a bit because people would have to settle with other things than the usual meta.

While a drafting process at the start of rated matches would solve many issues, this is definitely not the way to do it.

To have draft matchmaking, you need players to be able to ready characters with builds beforehand, and you need to lock characters so they can't be changed too much after they have been selected, but you still need to let players make some changes to their skills before the start of the match.

For example, something like this:

• First things first, PvP needs a way to save and share PvP build templates. That's step 1 to get a proper drafting system.
• Then players need a way to be able to 'store' at least 5 different character-build combinations that are not too similar to each other, and at least 2 professions. Like talking to an NPC to register them. Deleting the characters tied to those builds would cause problems, so there needs to be checks on that too to remove them from storage.
  • What's a build that is too similar? That's hard to tell because the key elements of each build are different, but at least we can count the different changes between two builds, and give a 'value' to each change, like changing a 2h weapon is much more change than changing a single utility skill. And changing an specialization is more change than changing just a trait, and of course changing profession is a huge change that ensures the builds will always be considered different. If the calculated value of the changes between two builds is too low, then they would be considered variants of each other, too similar, and basically the same build.
• Then it would be convenient if the system was able to swap characters on the fly without going to the character selection screen. So when our character gets selected a drafting process we don't have to go to a loading screen and wait to have the map loaded.
• Then we need to change queuing for ranked matches to use those builds instead the current character. This is what I beleive must be the hardest part. Once this is achieved, you could do whatever you want to do with any character you want, and you would still be queued for PvP with the characters you have prepared for it and you actually want to use in PvP, without having to switch to them at the start of the match. Players will need to set their builds to be able to queue, so there needs to be clear explanations and tutorials on how to do it, and a series of decent preset builds to get started.
• Once all of that is done, queuing can consider not just characters and professions, but specific builds and small variations of them. Which also means characters can be locked in matches, and it even means it'd be possible to prevent similar builds to appear twice in the same team without having to prevent the same profession appearing twice.
• For unranked matches, this could be used to directly pick characters quickly by using all stored builds as separate characters in the queue. Too many necromancers queued? No problem, people have to set an alternate profession, those can be used instead to complete matches.
• For ranked and tournament matches there could be a drafting process after the queue. Players would take turns picking builds from the ones they have selected, and the 'leader' of each team (the player with the highest rating and win ratio in ranked, and someone appointed by the team leader in tournaments) would also take turns banning builds from the enemy. I'd start with a ban from each team, then 5 picks alternating teams, another ban, then the remaining 5 picks.
  • Builds that are too similar would get banned at the same time across all teams. That's why we need to be able to queue with at least 5 builds and 2 professions. 10 builds and 3 professions would be better, but let's be realistic, not that many people play even with more than 1.
• Being forced to load a fixed build would be just as bad as letting people freely switch characters at the start of matches. Because of that, after the drafting is done, there needs to be the possibility of some adjusting on one's build. but not too much.
  • There could have to be some sort of point system that limits how many changes one can do to one's build. Changing trait lines, weapons and main amulet attribute would not be possible, but it would be possible to pick a few different traits, different upgrades and change utility skills, and change to a different amulet with the same main major attribute(s). Each change would cost some of the points to change, and some changes would cost more than others, like changing a grandmaster trait would cost more than changing an adept one, and changing an elite skill would cost more than changing the healing skill.
  • There could also be the possibility of allowing this point system to be used to make changes during the match, for as long as the characters has points left, they would be able to make changes at the base when they go back there after being defeated. This would allow a bit of variability during the match, to give people a chance to learn from their mistakes and try something else within the same match.

This is just an example, but people should get the idea if they have time to grab a drink and read the wall of text.

The point is, with a proper drafting system done right, people would be able to have a say in balance without having to wait for the next skill update. If everyone knows that one build is too troublesome, players can keep taking it out at the start of matches.
And it also gives devs some insight on what people perceive from balance. One build that keeps getting banned every single match would be in dire need of adjustment if that many people hate it so much they would rather not even have it in their own team.

@bigo.9037 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@bigo.9037 said:so after playing another game with my girl it kinda struck me what anet has to do to balance pvp:

Ban phase before the start of each match.

it could go like this:

1 minute before match starts each player has 30 seconds to ban (for example) 1 utility skill, 2 traits and maybe 1 rune. then each player gets another 30 seconds to adjust their build further after some of their traits or skills might be banned.

this would solve so many problems because:

1. it would solve most issues players have with certain classes. some players dislike fighting against class X so they can kinda nerf it a little bit. but of course you can also be nerfed yourself

2. it would increase build diversity by force. players would have to come up with backup builds in case their build gets hit hard with bans.

3. balance issues aren't quite as big of a problem.

the way I would imagine this pan out is that you can only click 1 enemy player and ban their stuff. not an entire class because sometimes there are 2 players with the same class in 1 game.

leave your thoughts and suggestions.

30 sec is no where close to select utilities to ban utilities. 30 sec is no where close to enough to adjust utilities.

Also, in terms of philosophy you are contradicting yourself. "making you pick 2 different traits in your build isn't going to shatter the whole build." If it is not essential, then why do we need to ban it. If it is, then the build is centered around it. So which is it?

I do not want to get too much into tech, but it is safe to say that putting a CD suddenly on a skill on your bar, based on a selection by another player is probably not currently possible.

The bottom line is if a specific utility is out performing, then fixing this utility through a class balance update is the easiest and the most logical thing to do. This convoluted ban system surely is not.

simply not playing it

Words cannot describe how dumb and impractical your idea is.I don't give a damn about what you "dont feel like dealing with" right now....who the f are you to bann my build by removing traits/utility's?You want more control? Create your team and gain controlWho in their right mind would think this is a good idea?

Why use time on buildcrafting when you cant play it anyway.

Amazing

Instead of this, before matchmaking you can select 1 of the classes which you dont want to play against. Match according to this and everyone is happy and devs have the data on most hated class or most op class.

@"Amaranthe.3578" said:Words cannot describe how dumb and impractical your idea is.I don't give a kitten about what you "dont feel like dealing with" right now....who the f are you to bann my build by removing traits/utility's?You want more control? Create your team and gain controlWho in their right mind would think this is a good idea?

lmao.

you pretend as though I'm doing this because I think I'm entitled to remove your build.

I'm saying this could work ( if not for condi removal and condi dmg in general making this obsolete ) because you could tone down certain things on both teams, setting up a certain strategy by banning a few key traits, etc. this could improve build diversity because the most played meta builds would most often get sliightly worse if players choose to ban those traits etc.

the general idea of this is to combat the powercreep that has happened throughout the years. if elite specs get toned down by player choice, old hot specs or core builds might see the light of day on more classes than just Guardian.

Im up against a rifle deadeye? Well I guess no Silent Scope allowed this match. Good luck retraiting to some other spec, because you definitely won't pvp as a deadeye without that trait!

Oh the enemy has a revenant? Lets disable their only heal (glint). HAVE FUN LOL.

Oh look a core guard. How cute, lets disable his ability to trait meditations(Monk's Focus), or remove the extra critchance while having retaliation(Righteous Instincts). No sustain or no offense; GET BALANCED BETCH!

Oh look a weaver. HAHAHAHA good bye Cleansing Water, have fun holding points without condition removal!

Banning builds(the one trait their entire combo is built around)... I can see how this would turn PvP into a toxic ragefest, and kill the gamemode in record time. But PvP being permanently dead would also fix matchmaking, wintrading, toxicity and trolling/grieving. So maybe this is a good idea after all. BIG THUMBS UP!

I have a better idea:

delete everything except renegadenow everybody plays renegadepvp fixed