[Spoilers] So after the final of the Ep5 everyone started jumping to conclusions that.... — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Spoilers] So after the final of the Ep5 everyone started jumping to conclusions that....

Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭

Aurene is going to be resurrected somehow, but isn't more plausible that we are going with plan A of the Forgotten to purify Kralkatorrik. Maybe we'll get some magic mcGuffin from the mists with the help of the ghost of Aurene or Glint and do whatever the Forgotten wanted to do.

Comments

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Kinda wish she will stay dead...

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    all the "she'll be resurrected" alarm bells are going off.
    wish they didn't.
    they're noisy

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    At this point, I think bringing back Aurene is much more plausible, for two reasons.

    A.) The Forgotten already tried, and the ritual didn't work. Given how little we know about the Forgotten and their magic, to suddenly do better than them in their own wheelhouse is not exactly what I'd call 'plausible'.

    B.) The whole function of the ritual is to break the mental domination carried by dragon corruption and grant the subject free will. So far as we know, Kralkatorrik already has this. It doesn't magically make dragons good, it just gives them the chance to choose, and Kralk so far has consistently chosen to ruin our day.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • On top of what Aaron said, if there's any Elder Dragon undeserving of redemption, it's Kralkatorrik. And I don't mean such because he killed Glint and Aurene, but just his personality in general, imo, is directed as being irredeemable.

  • I wish that Kral will eat as much magic he can and burst like an overstuffed pinata.

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    On top of what Aaron said, if there's any Elder Dragon undeserving of redemption, it's Kralkatorrik. And I don't mean such because he killed Glint and Aurene, but just his personality in general, imo, is directed as being irredeemable.

    I might have forgiven him for the whole force of nature gig if the ritual made him see things our way. Being a force of nature and gorging on magic till he falls into hibernation is all he (and the other Elder Dragons) has ever known. But now? It's pretty personal having killed Glint, Vlast, and Aurene. Kinda obligated to deal with him at this point.

    And yeah as Aaron said, the Forgotten tried that route already. He responded by branding them. Don't think he's a very reasonable dragon.

  • Kralkatorrik didn't kill Vlast. Balthazar (and the Commander's foolishness) did. Well, Vlast rather killed himself, in all honesty. There were other ways to save the Commander from a mere greatsword.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And, why would you WANT some magical "McGuffin" that allows us to do what the forgotten couldn't?

    If they go the forgotten route, I think it would be much better served as Aurene somehow coming back branded and us finding forgotten and cleansing her in Arah like we did Twitchy. I think that would have the potential to be very beautiful and perhaps we could see that area of Arah purified now. The only real reason I would want them to go this route.

    Given the millisecond we had to even look at Aurene before we went to the black screen saying, "I don't know" it's pretty obvious they want to elude or leave open the possibility for us that Aurene isn't as dead as the story makes her out to be. That as well as the fact that we what kills Aurene knocks us back half a zone so we don't actually see that exact moment of her death. Another indication that they want to cover their tracks in case they decide to bring her back.

    A common theory is Joko, and I think it's probably the most logical route they could take. Given the name dropping from Ogden, the fact that she ate him out of the blue, and the fact that her skin was a grey fleshy color instead of branded and crystalline as it was in the vision illustrations. The statement about Joko's death in that way and at that time being important later on in the story. Also the fact that in Glint's trials it was implied her actual fear wasn't the countless deaths she witnessed but the fear of being branded by Kralk. So, perhaps the fear of being branded by Kralk was greater to her than dying because she innately knew that she couldn't die? Or more on that, she knew that if she were branded she risks being his unkillable branded weapon.

    As usual, we're left with a fast-paced story that really leaves more questions than answers. And given the history of this game, for all we know next episode we could find this magical McGuffin you're requesting, Aurene is hinted at still being alive, and we go a completely different direction with even more open-ended plots to toss into the pile.

    The Hall of Heroes theory could make for a very visually interesting and lore-interesting final encounter with Kralk, but I fear that even if they go that route it may not be everything people are hoping for. We may visit it, and it may look neat, but we could wind up having the battle and resolution there but nothing more than some ambient dialogue or extra chats with the spirits there which I'm not sure is entirely what people are hoping for when they hope for this situation.

    I also just don't see how Aurene becoming this mist entity will help us in our current situation, unless for some reason she attains all of her magic and abilities with her in the mists. And if that were the case, why wouldn't Mordremoth and Zhaitan keep their elder dragon powers when they die if they go to the mists? It just wouldn't be consistent to have her all of a sudden be some spirit dragon like Glint but be able to fill this elder dragon role that Glint couldn't, while presumably the elder dragons we have killed still released their magic into Tyria and gave up their spot on the proverbial pyramid. Unless they do retain their abilities but are or were unable to have any influence on Tyria at that point because of the mists at the time were separated? The whole msits thing just seems like it would have far more inconsistencies and plot holes than simply having her resurrected by Joko's magic or somehow branded and cleansed despite the inconsistencies with that theory.

    Finding Shiny or some other dragon immediately after spending years developing the plot with Aurene would be illogical if we're supposed to emphasize completely with the commander and their team. Because outside of the fact that reality could come undone, the commander isn't going to just be like... "well, this dragon died so let's rush off and find another one."

    Lastly we have the issue of, if our solution takes the entirety of season 5, we have this constant threat looming over our heads of Kralk eating the universe. And what kind of writing would that be to diminish the impact of our current predicament episode after episode? Eh... Or, Kralk for some reason at his most injured goes back to sleep whether it be on Tyria or in the mists, we have no solution, and then what? Despite Kralk being asleep and being grief-stricken we set off to find plan B and then surprise Kralk while he's asleep? Talk about anti-climactic.

    We also have the theory that Aurene mind-jacked Kralk, which could play into the forgotten cleansing ritual I suppose, but would honestly be a pretty poor direction in and of itself. Even if she did mind-jack him, she... what... controls him from the mists? She straight up planted her mind into Kralk and now she's just a corpse on Tyria and has no spirit in the mists? Kralk would still have his mind in there, unless she somehow switched minds with him completely and Kralk is Aurene's body that's now dead? So how would that be explained? Is there any precedent in this game of people mind-swapping that I'm just not recalling right now? And even if there were, how would she.. elder dragon candidate or not, have the ability to mind swap with an elder dragon when the forgotten couldn't phase Kralk? It just wouldn't work.

    This theory: Aurene that we saw wasn't actually Aurene thus why in the trials the line "you seem different," before she exits with us on our way to Thunderhead. But Aurene seems pretty Aurene-like, and I feel like that branding moment with Caithe and speaking through her pretty much establishes that it is Aurene. You're also left wondering how Glint was able to create that kind of a decoy to begin with... So this theory doesn't really work.

    I think the resurrection Joko bit is partially because people want Aurene to come back and Joko's death to have more meaning, but also because it's just the most logical direction they can take that leaves the least amount of questions and doesn't require as much stretching of certain aspects of the story to make it work. It's also the quickest way to a resolution for those of us that wish to move past Kralk in general.

    Whatever direction they choose to take, I hope they start developing episodes with story that don't end in - "the world is ending" "oh, no, the world is ending even faster than before" "OH NO THE WORLD IS ENDING RIGHT NOW" because it just gets really annoying with the way these releases are timed.

    The only way I can see them making the next episode SEEM like a finale and top this episode in terms of drama while providing a link to season 5 and without killing Kralk is:
    1. Aurene come back and it leads us into something involving her in season 5 with season 5 finishing off Kralk.
    2. The gods come back or we meet them in the mists chasing Kralk or something and that leads into season 5...
    3. Something taking advantage of Kralk's weakened state whether it being a god or another Elder Dragon.. or some random mist being that's pissed at him..

    Otherwise we'll have a finale that will be what? An aftermath episode picking up the pieces and mourning? Would seem a rather boring conclusion of a season that's formula has consisted of drama stacked on drama stacked on drama.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    We also have the theory that Aurene mind-jacked Kralk, which could play into the forgotten cleansing ritual I suppose, but would honestly be a pretty poor direction in and of itself. Even if she did mind-jack him, she... what... controls him from the mists? She straight up planted her mind into Kralk and now she's just a corpse on Tyria and has no spirit in the mists? Kralk would still have his mind in there, unless she somehow switched minds with him completely and Kralk is Aurene's body that's now dead? So how would that be explained? Is there any precedent in this game of people mind-swapping that I'm just not recalling right now? And even if there were, how would she.. elder dragon candidate or not, have the ability to mind swap with an elder dragon when the forgotten couldn't phase Kralk? It just wouldn't work.

    I mean, that's true and all, but the chief counter-evidence to this theory is that Kraalkatorik is a mean-looking kitten, and they aren't going to visually do that to their cute little mascot. Not enough people want a looks-like-Kraalkatorik-but-is-actually-Aurene T-shirt. Guild Wars is pretty good about following the Evil Is Ugly rule, mostly.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @perilisk.1874 said:

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    We also have the theory that Aurene mind-jacked Kralk, which could play into the forgotten cleansing ritual I suppose, but would honestly be a pretty poor direction in and of itself. Even if she did mind-jack him, she... what... controls him from the mists? She straight up planted her mind into Kralk and now she's just a corpse on Tyria and has no spirit in the mists? Kralk would still have his mind in there, unless she somehow switched minds with him completely and Kralk is Aurene's body that's now dead? So how would that be explained? Is there any precedent in this game of people mind-swapping that I'm just not recalling right now? And even if there were, how would she.. elder dragon candidate or not, have the ability to mind swap with an elder dragon when the forgotten couldn't phase Kralk? It just wouldn't work.

    I mean, that's true and all, but the chief counter-evidence to this theory is that Kraalkatorik is a mean-looking kitten, and they aren't going to visually do that to their cute little mascot. Not enough people want a looks-like-Kraalkatorik-but-is-actually-Aurene T-shirt. Guild Wars is pretty good about following the Evil Is Ugly rule, mostly.

    Yeah, another reason why I don't buy into that theory.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    On top of what Aaron said, if there's any Elder Dragon undeserving of redemption, it's Kralkatorrik. And I don't mean such because he killed Glint and Aurene, but just his personality in general, imo, is directed as being irredeemable.

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    We also have the theory that Aurene mind-jacked Kralk, which could play into the forgotten cleansing ritual I suppose, but would honestly be a pretty poor direction in and of itself. Even if she did mind-jack him, she... what... controls him from the mists? She straight up planted her mind into Kralk and now she's just a corpse on Tyria and has no spirit in the mists? Kralk would still have his mind in there.

    What if Aurene imparted only a part of herself into Kralk without going into full mind swapping, and mellowed out Kralk's personality? Remember what Caithe said Aurene's being. Intense love and trust, overwhelming hope. Aurene's soul/mind/power is certainly weaker thank Kralk's that is true. But her memories and experiences, if they are as as Caithe describes, could it be weaponized in a mind melding situation? We don't have to presume that Aurene could or would have to completely override Kralkatoric's original self to succeed. Personality wise Kralk starts at 0, he is irredeemable. Add +1 love, trust and hope to his personality, and that makes him infinitely, even if marginally better. It creates a basis to try to calm the dragon down. Perhaps such a change could be the key to making a purifying ritual work.

  • Jokubas.4265Jokubas.4265 Member ✭✭
    edited January 23, 2019

    I think I mentioned the possibility of Aurene entering Kralkatorrik's mind before. I certainly didn't expect that she flat-out stole his body. I imagined it more like us in the Mordremoth instance.

    I've been expecting Aurene to come back, but not because I need her to. Personally, I've never been that attached to her. I certainly don't dislike her or anything, but I guess I'm just not invested enough. I expect her to come back because it's pretty much the only option when you escalate to the point of "either this plan works, or the entire universe is destroyed". At this point, something other than what (we at least thought) was our plan has to happen, but the stakes haven't changed as far as we know.

    I hate to say it, but as cheap as some would see Aurene's return, I kinda feel the same way about her death to begin with. It's such an easy shock value moment. I'm not saying that you can't do that well, or even that this won't turn out really interesting in the end, but major character deaths are so popular right now, it doesn't have the meaning that it might have a decade ago. There's been such a pushback against traditional storytelling in modern fiction that sometimes having things turn just as planned would be a bigger twist.

    I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining though. I liked this episode well enough, I just wish we had more to go on since the gaps between episodes are so long.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Kralkatorrik didn't kill Vlast.

    Right, that was Balthazar. My bad.

  • Biff.5312Biff.5312 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The truth is that we spent too much time getting Aurene prepared for the fight to just ditch that storyline. It would be an unprecedented red herring if so, and I don't see Anet doing that just for kicks.

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