Civil Discussion: Changing Marked Effect for Both Sides of Play-style - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Civil Discussion: Changing Marked Effect for Both Sides of Play-style

2>

Comments

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:
    This would provide a counterplay, and give Risk to the stealthclass because hé needs to come close nontheless

    They need that regardless. I mean yeah any roamer can kite zerglings but is there any ranged thief build thats actually usefull in fights among equals? Few even use the rifle anymore, pistols are still hard countered by reflects and the bow is used for escapes.

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:
    This would provide a counterplay, and give Risk to the stealthclass because hé needs to come close nontheless

    They need that regardless. I mean yeah any roamer can kite zerglings but is there any ranged thief build thats actually usefull in fights among equals? Few even use the rifle anymore, pistols are still hard countered by reflects and the bow is used for escapes.

    If melee didn't provide capability of hitting stealthed foes IT would be hit, stealth, hit stealth in melee...
    'Maybe 1s of superspeed on traitline when getting stealthed or giving a counterdhadowstep to steal

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2019

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:
    This would provide a counterplay, and give Risk to the stealthclass because hé needs to come close nontheless

    They need that regardless. I mean yeah any roamer can kite zerglings but is there any ranged thief build thats actually usefull in fights among equals? Few even use the rifle anymore, pistols are still hard countered by reflects and the bow is used for escapes.

    If melee didn't provide capability of hitting stealthed foes IT would be hit, stealth, hit stealth in melee...
    'Maybe 1s of superspeed on traitline when getting stealthed or giving a counterdhadowstep to steal

    no it wouldnt as you still are 3s revealed after hitting. aside from silent scope you can interrupt any frequent attempt to go into stealth.
    and rifle would still lose alot on its reposition potential with lower speed. so what you lose to hit them the moment they enter stealth you regain in closing the gap much faster and actually being able to pressure them at all.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Artaz.3819Artaz.3819 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly, the "best" thing to do in the interim is just lay a large "eye" visual target circle line around the sentry/tower/etc. (aka Tolkien style floating Great Eye above tower or sentry wouldn't hurt either) to show the clear Marked effect start. It's odd that map areas are not marked effectively especially when there are towers that have multiple sentry balloons up (or the entire Red desert borderland 6s revealed no stealth areas when 2 Earth Shrines are active).

    Marked is a real issue for newer WvW players too (especially Desert borderlands) since it is so poorly implemented and not described anywhere.

  • @Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:
    First and foremost let me address the sides of play-style that are in question.

    • Stealth lovers that would do such things listed below
    • Stealth haters that would complain/show great distaste for those utilizing such mechanics such as stealth.

    • What we know is that the patch @ https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/60248/game-update-notes-november-13-2018#latest has brought some styles of stealth play-styles to their knees while making some other forms of play easier and able to detect easier. However those that enjoy veiling / entering stealth to get behind enemy lines or even those that used to scout have either stopped playing wvwvw or moved on from the game altogether or even stopped the classes they have enjoyed playing.

    What are some suggestions that would appease both sides of play that could bring those players, that stopped playing, back to the game and at the same time still make it easier for those players that are against such stealth play?** Please leave your suggestions while staying on topic and explaining your reasoning. Be open to criticism and do NOT post low effort replies** If you can not post here, just pm me in game and I will post your suggestions here as an edit.

    1. OP suggestion is: Make the marked effect from sentries/towers an upgrade in specific tier that could effect players as it does currently...however, would still allow players utilizing stealth to enjoy their play-style.

    For sure Anet needs to do something.
    The marked effect in general is okay for me but to take out a class Core mechanic the teef stealth isnt a way to balance a stupid trait Design "stealth on dodge, perma stealth".

    When teef cant enter stealth, his core mech., a mes shouldnt be able to generate clones, war no regen., ranger no pet, ... even if it wouldnt be balance either it would widen this stupid marked effect to other classes, which is just fair at all.

    Teef haters FEEL FREE TO give ur 2cents. No Idea why the blobbers hates teef so much, clear a lack of own skill level. Teef has no zero impact in WvW.

    Just let us sneak around the map and have a look to the great map Design, we like it, thats all we can do anyway.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:
    When teef cant enter stealth, his core mech., a mes shouldnt be able to generate clones, war no regen., ranger no pet, ... even if it wouldnt be balance either it would widen this stupid marked effect to other classes, which is just fair at all.

    Your argument falls flat when stealth is not a core mechanic on thief.

    The thief core mechanic would be steal.

    Stealth is something they can specialize in, just like a mesmer can trait to generate more clones, a warrior can trait to regen more health or a ranger trait to having a stronger pet.

    Why do you think the class is called thief and not invisible man?

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:
    When teef cant enter stealth, his core mech., a mes shouldnt be able to generate clones, war no regen., ranger no pet, ... even if it wouldnt be balance either it would widen this stupid marked effect to other classes, which is just fair at all.

    Your argument falls flat when stealth is not a core mechanic on thief.

    The thief core mechanic would be steal.

    stealth attacks are a core mechanic of thief, just like steal or initative.
    so far stealth attacks do require the thief to be in stealth, therefor one could argue that a core mechanic of thief does require access to stealth.

    or to put your type of argumentation onto your mesmer: mesmers core mechanic are shatters, clones and phantasms are not a core mechanic but the mesmer can invest into them. therefor when marked all clones and phantasms are destroyed if they presist too long (2 seconds). thats more or less what marked does to stealth attacks.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Raiden The Beast.3016Raiden The Beast.3016 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:
    When teef cant enter stealth, his core mech., a mes shouldnt be able to generate clones, war no regen., ranger no pet, ... even if it wouldnt be balance either it would widen this stupid marked effect to other classes, which is just fair at all.

    Your argument falls flat when stealth is not a core mechanic on thief.

    The thief core mechanic would be steal.

    Stealth is something they can specialize in, just like a mesmer can trait to generate more clones, a warrior can trait to regen more health or a ranger trait to having a stronger pet.

    Why do you think the class is called thief and not invisible man?

    Like MUDse already explained , bc we have (key) skills that requires stealth To use them. This why stealth is a Core mechanic and if you would have any know how from this game u wouldnt disagree. Sorry, but I cannot take people like u serious... just another teef hater

  • @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:
    When teef cant enter stealth, his core mech., a mes shouldnt be able to generate clones, war no regen., ranger no pet, ... even if it wouldnt be balance either it would widen this stupid marked effect to other classes, which is just fair at all.

    Your argument falls flat when stealth is not a core mechanic on thief.

    The thief core mechanic would be steal.

    Stealth is something they can specialize in, just like a mesmer can trait to generate more clones, a warrior can trait to regen more health or a ranger trait to having a stronger pet.

    Why do you think the class is called thief and not invisible man?

    Like MUDse already explained , bc we have (key) skills that requires stealth To use them. This why stealth is a Core mechanic and if you would have any know how from this game u wouldnt disagree. Sorry, but I cannot take people like u serious... just another teef hater

    I agree with Dawdler. Stealth isn't a Core mechanic for Thief. You can trait for stealth sure, but it's not a core. Shadow Arts and a few attacks are the only thing that grant Stealth, but for the most part dodging and evading is more prevalent. The problem is, is that people who play Thieves have learned to rely so heavily on Stealth as a crutch that they don't know how to play a non-stealth Thief. I have actually seen a non-stealth Thief being played before in WvW and they do just fine without stealth. Stealth in this game is unbalanced, check every other MMO out there and you will see that it is, and those that defend it do so because they like to abuse that stealth and it gives them great pleasure to see and hear those people gnashing their teeth and spitting nails because of it.

  • @oOStaticOo.9467 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:
    When teef cant enter stealth, his core mech., a mes shouldnt be able to generate clones, war no regen., ranger no pet, ... even if it wouldnt be balance either it would widen this stupid marked effect to other classes, which is just fair at all.

    Your argument falls flat when stealth is not a core mechanic on thief.

    The thief core mechanic would be steal.

    Stealth is something they can specialize in, just like a mesmer can trait to generate more clones, a warrior can trait to regen more health or a ranger trait to having a stronger pet.

    Why do you think the class is called thief and not invisible man?

    Like MUDse already explained , bc we have (key) skills that requires stealth To use them. This why stealth is a Core mechanic and if you would have any know how from this game u wouldnt disagree. Sorry, but I cannot take people like u serious... just another teef hater

    I agree with Dawdler. Stealth isn't a Core mechanic for Thief. You can trait for stealth sure, but it's not a core. Shadow Arts and a few attacks are the only thing that grant Stealth, but for the most part dodging and evading is more prevalent. The problem is, is that people who play Thieves have learned to rely so heavily on Stealth as a crutch that they don't know how to play a non-stealth Thief. I have actually seen a non-stealth Thief being played before in WvW and they do just fine without stealth. Stealth in this game is unbalanced, check every other MMO out there and you will see that it is, and those that defend it do so because they like to abuse that stealth and it gives them great pleasure to see and hear those people gnashing their teeth and spitting nails because of it.

    Stay on topic

  • @Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:
    When teef cant enter stealth, his core mech., a mes shouldnt be able to generate clones, war no regen., ranger no pet, ... even if it wouldnt be balance either it would widen this stupid marked effect to other classes, which is just fair at all.

    Your argument falls flat when stealth is not a core mechanic on thief.

    The thief core mechanic would be steal.

    Stealth is something they can specialize in, just like a mesmer can trait to generate more clones, a warrior can trait to regen more health or a ranger trait to having a stronger pet.

    Why do you think the class is called thief and not invisible man?

    Like MUDse already explained , bc we have (key) skills that requires stealth To use them. This why stealth is a Core mechanic and if you would have any know how from this game u wouldnt disagree. Sorry, but I cannot take people like u serious... just another teef hater

    I agree with Dawdler. Stealth isn't a Core mechanic for Thief. You can trait for stealth sure, but it's not a core. Shadow Arts and a few attacks are the only thing that grant Stealth, but for the most part dodging and evading is more prevalent. The problem is, is that people who play Thieves have learned to rely so heavily on Stealth as a crutch that they don't know how to play a non-stealth Thief. I have actually seen a non-stealth Thief being played before in WvW and they do just fine without stealth. Stealth in this game is unbalanced, check every other MMO out there and you will see that it is, and those that defend it do so because they like to abuse that stealth and it gives them great pleasure to see and hear those people gnashing their teeth and spitting nails because of it.

    Stay on topic

    LAWLZ!!!! Okay. I feel like the Marked mechanic is fine as is. No changes should be made. It's fair for everybody. Everybody is Marked while in the zone of area and once they are away from it, no longer marked. As people have mentioned before, Thieves can still Stealth most of the time. Besides you also have to wait for the Tower to become T3 in order to use the Watchtower passive to even give it the ability to Mark enemies. This just encourages more players to try to take the Tower faster so it never becomes an issue.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2019

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:

    @Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

    @oOStaticOo.9467 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:
    When teef cant enter stealth, his core mech., a mes shouldnt be able to generate clones, war no regen., ranger no pet, ... even if it wouldnt be balance either it would widen this stupid marked effect to other classes, which is just fair at all.

    Your argument falls flat when stealth is not a core mechanic on thief.

    The thief core mechanic would be steal.

    Stealth is something they can specialize in, just like a mesmer can trait to generate more clones, a warrior can trait to regen more health or a ranger trait to having a stronger pet.

    Why do you think the class is called thief and not invisible man?

    Like MUDse already explained , bc we have (key) skills that requires stealth To use them. This why stealth is a Core mechanic and if you would have any know how from this game u wouldnt disagree. Sorry, but I cannot take people like u serious... just another teef hater

    I agree with Dawdler. Stealth isn't a Core mechanic for Thief. You can trait for stealth sure, but it's not a core. Shadow Arts and a few attacks are the only thing that grant Stealth, but for the most part dodging and evading is more prevalent. The problem is, is that people who play Thieves have learned to rely so heavily on Stealth as a crutch that they don't know how to play a non-stealth Thief. I have actually seen a non-stealth Thief being played before in WvW and they do just fine without stealth. Stealth in this game is unbalanced, check every other MMO out there and you will see that it is, and those that defend it do so because they like to abuse that stealth and it gives them great pleasure to see and hear those people gnashing their teeth and spitting nails because of it.

    Stay on topic

    LAWLZ!!!! Okay. I feel like the Marked mechanic is fine as is. No changes should be made. It's fair for everybody. Everybody is Marked while in the zone of area and once they are away from it, no longer marked. As people have mentioned before, Thieves can still Stealth most of the time. Besides you also have to wait for the Tower to become T3 in order to use the Watchtower passive to even give it the ability to Mark enemies. This just encourages more players to try to take the Tower faster so it never becomes an issue.

    if it would just show the position on the map, it would treat everyone the same. yet it also affects a combat mechanic so it affects people more that do utilize it. so no its not a 'fair' envoiremental mechanic.

    but you are right thief ( at least deadeye ) is still in a rather decent spot for roaming, despite because of its stealth. however that doesnt change the fact, that the changes to marked effect feel like a temporary bandaid and the goal of that change IMO is not clear. i still have plenty of opportunities to hide in opposing towers/keeps flipping them. avoiding marked my opponents usually wont feel a difference as i still pick when i fight and where. so it neither solved the issues many people did voice before the changes about deadeyes in their keeps nor did it change much about the actual happening encounters. its just a pure annoyance for the stealth user, thats all.
    i would prefer them to revert the changes to the marked effect and make a change that affects and only affects whatever they wanted to achieve. it also would give them the option to then reduce the passive marked areas (watchtower+sentries) without too much of an uproar. they are an annoyance for the attacker as they have to play around it without much of an input from their opponents and it does make the defenders 'lazy' and relying too much on it instead of actually scouting the area and spotting the opposing forces with players, now that players have a painter to mark them for the entire map..

    read this, become a better player now.

  • @oOStaticOo.9467 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:
    When teef cant enter stealth, his core mech., a mes shouldnt be able to generate clones, war no regen., ranger no pet, ... even if it wouldnt be balance either it would widen this stupid marked effect to other classes, which is just fair at all.

    Your argument falls flat when stealth is not a core mechanic on thief.

    The thief core mechanic would be steal.

    Stealth is something they can specialize in, just like a mesmer can trait to generate more clones, a warrior can trait to regen more health or a ranger trait to having a stronger pet.

    Why do you think the class is called thief and not invisible man?

    Like MUDse already explained , bc we have (key) skills that requires stealth To use them. This why stealth is a Core mechanic and if you would have any know how from this game u wouldnt disagree. Sorry, but I cannot take people like u serious... just another teef hater

    I agree with Dawdler. Stealth isn't a Core mechanic for Thief. You can trait for stealth sure, but it's not a core. Shadow Arts and a few attacks are the only thing that grant Stealth, but for the most part dodging and evading is more prevalent. The problem is, is that people who play Thieves have learned to rely so heavily on Stealth as a crutch that they don't know how to play a non-stealth Thief. I have actually seen a non-stealth Thief being played before in WvW and they do just fine without stealth. Stealth in this game is unbalanced, check every other MMO out there and you will see that it is, and those that defend it do so because they like to abuse that stealth and it gives them great pleasure to see and hear those people gnashing their teeth and spitting nails because of it.

    Are u kiddin me? Im not talking about traited skills. Every f.c.i.ng 1st Skill from teef does have a Special function out of stealth. It is for sure a core mechanic...

    DO U KNOW BACKSTEP? ...

    U have no clue from the class and game mechanics... just hate teefs bc of Personal low Skill level. Unfortunedly anet always follows the Forum memememe...

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.