A Civil and Logical Approach to the Recent Scrapper Changes

Hello folks here in the forum, and at ArenaNet. I just want to break down these changes in a constructive way, both positively and negatively, to provide feedback to the developers who worked hard in designing and implementing these changes. I'll go into as much detail as I can in terms of the change, why I think it's good/not so good, and how it should proceed moving forward (buffs/nerfs). Please keep an open mind, and try not flame. Also, feel free to offer up some unique suggestions and ideas of your own.

Lets begin with the Function Gyro changes. In this patch, we have seen the Function Gyro now becoming a skill and replacing our elite toolbelt skill (or as we call it the F5). It summons up to 6 gyros, 3 for ressing and 3 for stomping, if there are a mass piling of said bodies in the given radius of the skill's effect. Cooldown increases by 50% for every gyro summoned after the first (so 15 more seconds of CD).My thoughts: This is an interesting change, and to prevent mass resses every VERY often, the CD will increase. Well thought out. But, here is the issue. The gyro dies EXTREMELY quick. I'm talking much faster than the old Function Gyro. It feels, currently, that the gyros that are summoned have 1/3 of the HP that the old one had. I watched Chaith's stream when the changes had just went live, and he was practicing its functionality on some of the combat NPCs in Heart of the Mists. He was practicing on a Guardian NPC, and the Guardian went down. He used the Function Gyro skill on the Guardian, and the Guardian proceeded to use its AoE knockback down skill. The Function Gyro was literally one shot destroyed by the Guard's downed skill. And when I say destroyed, I mean it died. It literally died. I don't feel this is a healthy change at all, and it completely invalidates the Function Gyro, which is supposed to be the main mechanic of the Scrapper. The health needs to be brought back to what the old Function Gyro was, possibly even a bit more, as its CD does increase when you are able to res or stomp multiple allies/enemies.Overall, interesting change, but not good at all. The aforementioned buff to its health pool will solve this issue.

Speed of Synergy: Using a leap finisher grants YOU, the scrapper ONLY, superspeed, and using a blast finishers apply superspeed around you.My thoughts: Great change to this skill, it previously being Decisive Renown. It really helps you stay on target after using blast and leap finishers, e.g. when using Hammer 3 (Rocket Charge) in your water field for that extra healing, you can now jump right back into combat and stick to your target afterwards as well to start providing counterpressure. Great change.

Impact Savant: A percentage of the strike (direct) damage you deal is converted into barrier. Your vitality, however, is reduced.My thoughts: I really like the concept and idea of this minor trait. It is probably one of the most intriguing changes, to me, in a skill in a long time. And I think it's a good change, but now here comes the flaw.The only time this really becomes something to be taken seriously, is if you play something with ferocity tied to it, and crit strike, like Marauder's or Demolishers. But even then, the barrier that you are generating is actually...not that good at all. Now I understand that you, ArenaNet, wanted to tone down the self barrier application slightly from the old Adaptive Armor, and make it baseline as it fits the Tank theme of the specialization. But only having 15% of the direct damage dealt to barrier is a little lacking. Especially on builds that would run Paladin's or Knight's amulet.My proposed changes to this skill would be actually quite minor, and exist in 3 possibilities of which you could choose 1 of:1) Increase the % of direct damage to barrier from 15% to 20%. This would be a healthy change, and give tankier amulets an option without having to suffer horrid deaths while feeling useless.OR 2) Remove the 300 Vitality loss. Keep the direct damage to barrier 15%, but remove the 300 Vitality so we have more health to help keep us alive while we're slugging it out with enemies in battle.OR 3) Change the trait to be a nerfed version of Adaptive Armor. Let it give 600-700 barrier when struck, and have an internal cooldown of 3s. That way, the self barrier application is there, and it could save your rear-end in a pinch, but not too stupidly overpowered that the old super bunker unkillable scrapper is back.Any one of these 3 changes that I suggested for this trait would put the Scrapper in a better spot in terms of survivability, probably in a way you wouldn't expect. But the change itself, besides the flaws just listed, is a good change and promotes active play and wanting to be in combat to get the benefits of staying alive in battle.

The other traits in the Major trait selection areas (Adept, Master, Grandmaster) I feel are actually in good spots, and do something majorly interesting and beneficial for your build, depending on what way you want to go down the path. The problem is in the Function Gyro itself and Impact savant. Other than that, solid changes, and if the things listed here are changed accordingly, I could see some interesting builds using Damage Dampener and Applied Force, along with Gyroscopic Acceleration in a group setting as a teamfighter tank to help your allies peel out of sticky situations, while taking the damage you're taking in the process that would otherwise be instant and having a chance to build up some barrier to mitigate the delayed damage, taking Bulwark Gyro to also buff up your barrier applied to yourself while also mitigating some damage your allies are taking. Please, to the devs at ArenaNet, give this a read and consider the changes, as currently the way the flawed skills/traits mentioned play actually hurts the Scrapper's survivability. Thank you for taking the time to read this and considering this constructive feedback. If i have a change of mind about anything, I'll either edit the post or include in a separate post that quotes the original.

Generally, I would agree with your assessment. The function gyro could use more health. Of the times I have used it in WvW I think only once has it not been cleaved down instantly. I would like to add a 4th option to your proposed Impact Savant changes: Convert 15% of ALL outgoing damage into barrier and reduces vitality by 300. Remove the strike provision and open it up to include condition damage as well. This would open up build diversity and play styles.

@"lostinoz.8659" said:Generally, I would agree with your assessment. The function gyro could use more health. Of the times I have used it in WvW I think only once has it not been cleaved down instantly. I would like to add a 4th option to your proposed Impact Savant changes: Convert 15% of ALL outgoing damage into barrier and reduces vitality by 300. Remove the strike provision and open it up to include condition damage as well. This would open up build diversity and play styles.

It's not just condition damage either (although, it really really needs to work with condi ..).

"Strike" damage doesn't include stuff like ground aoes. I tried my old combo: Minesweeper dodge back, then Magnet my target through the mines for damage and got .. 0 barrier.

If the balance team has decided that non-strike damage would be OP somehow, maybe it could still function at a lesser rate? 10% of all non-strike damage to barrier?

@coro.3176 said:

@"lostinoz.8659" said:Generally, I would agree with your assessment. The function gyro could use more health. Of the times I have used it in WvW I think only once has it not been cleaved down instantly. I would like to add a 4th option to your proposed Impact Savant changes: Convert 15% of ALL outgoing damage into barrier and reduces vitality by 300. Remove the strike provision and open it up to include condition damage as well. This would open up build diversity and play styles.

Weird, I've gotten it to proc on retal. Maybe I'm just reading the numbers wrong?

I liked this suggestion:https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/cet18c/the_rework_destroyed_scrapper_build_diversity_but/

Fortunately, there is a way to keep the rework and save condi/healing Scrapper builds: Change Impact Savant to ALSO generate barrier based on condition damage and outgoing healing.

I think that's a solid move forward, as at least on the condi and support ends, the gutting of vitality will be offset by at least better access to the means of generating barrier.

girfuy

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:I liked this suggestion:https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/cet18c/the_rework_destroyed_scrapper_build_diversity_but/

Fortunately, there is a way to keep the rework and save condi/healing Scrapper builds: Change Impact Savant to ALSO generate barrier based on condition damage and outgoing healing.

I like the idea but if healing were to trigger Impact Savant barrier, would a Sanctuary Runes combo be too powerful? (15% from Impact+20% Sanctuary then the extra 15% from Adaptive Armor)

@lostinoz.8659 said:

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:I liked this suggestion:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/cet18c/the_rework_destroyed_scrapper_build_diversity_but/

Fortunately, there is a way to keep the rework and save condi/healing Scrapper builds: Change Impact Savant to ALSO generate barrier based on condition damage and outgoing healing.

Not following you. Wouldn't Sanctuary Runes have been even more OP before this patch, where we had more self-healing? But I don't remember seeing anyone using them over Monk runes.

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@lostinoz.8659 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:I liked this suggestion:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/cet18c/the_rework_destroyed_scrapper_build_diversity_but/

Fortunately, there is a way to keep the rework and save condi/healing Scrapper builds: Change Impact Savant to ALSO generate barrier based on condition damage and outgoing healing.

Its not that Sanctuary Runes would be OP its that the total barrier gained in a combo would be. I guess the question is would Sanctuary Runes + Rapid Regen + Med Pack Drop < 15% of all outgoing heals barrier + Sanctuary Runes. Heal Scrappers can still pump out a lot of heals without Monk Runes but maybe you are right and I am over thinking it.

@lostinoz.8659 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@lostinoz.8659 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:I liked this suggestion:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/cet18c/the_rework_destroyed_scrapper_build_diversity_but/

Fortunately, there is a way to keep the rework and save condi/healing Scrapper builds: Change Impact Savant to ALSO generate barrier based on condition damage and outgoing healing.

Well, if anything I don't think people would complain about too much barrier on Medi scrapper since full minstrel was pretty much unkillable 1v1 before the patch anyways. The issue that Reddit poster brought up is that Scrapper MUST take a trait that cuts their vitality by 3000, but only a Power DPS Scrapper can now benefit from barrier, leaving support and condi out in the cold.

I don't play Medi Scrapper much these days, but this patch has certainly given me reason to not try harder to do so.

@lostinoz.8659 said:Generally, I would agree with your assessment. The function gyro could use more health. Of the times I have used it in WvW I think only once has it not been cleaved down instantly. I would like to add a 4th option to your proposed Impact Savant changes: Convert 15% of ALL outgoing damage into barrier and reduces vitality by 300. Remove the strike provision and open it up to include condition damage as well. This would open up build diversity and play styles.

Thinking about this more, I think it would be an interesting thing to do as well, and would indeed open up more build diversity.

Thanks for the measured write up Ghos, very clear and concise. I completely agree about function gyro. It’s health pool seems INCREDIBLY small compared to before, AND its rez ticks are worse than before. In the last two days I have gotten maybe 3-4 rezzes off with the gyro, 90% of the time it gets cleaved, or the pressure on the down is more than you and your gyro can heal.

The issues I’m noticing with scrapper post patch is the inconsistency with barrier gain, between multi hit attacks, blocks, blinds, fumble(weakness) invulns, evades and damage reduction (prot, aswell as other traits) On paper the concept makes sense, but in practice, the amount of barrier you’re gaining in any given fight is heavily diminished by the sustain and utility traits taken by other classes.

Something I have been thinking about in terms of balancing scrappers barrier would be how the barrier is calculated. This could potentially be very op, but I think, if anet wants to go this route with scrapper, it’s a good idea to consider. Just like someone mentioned earlier, all damage instead of strike damage. My proposition would be that the 15% of damage->barrier would be calculated before damage reduction such as armor, prot or damage reduction traits. This would NOT apply to invulns or targets taking zero damage (stone skin, endure pain) I feel like this incentivizes scrapper to build more glassy to get the most out of the barrier, like now, but more rewarding and consistent.

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:I liked this suggestion:https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/cet18c/the_rework_destroyed_scrapper_build_diversity_but/

Fortunately, there is a way to keep the rework and save condi/healing Scrapper builds: Change Impact Savant to ALSO generate barrier based on condition damage and outgoing healing.

I played a Menders/Sanctuary Gyro Scrapand no, better access to generating barrier did nothing.

@"Ghos.1326" said:Hello folks here in the forum, and at ArenaNet. I just want to break down these changes in a constructive way, both positively and negatively, to provide feedback to the developers who worked hard in designing and implementing these changes. I'll go into as much detail as I can in terms of the change, why I think it's good/not so good, and how it should proceed moving forward (buffs/nerfs). Please keep an open mind, and try not flame. Also, feel free to offer up some unique suggestions and ideas of your own.

Lets begin with the Function Gyro changes. In this patch, we have seen the Function Gyro now becoming a skill and replacing our elite toolbelt skill (or as we call it the F5). It summons up to 6 gyros, 3 for ressing and 3 for stomping, if there are a mass piling of said bodies in the given radius of the skill's effect. Cooldown increases by 50% for every gyro summoned after the first (so 15 more seconds of CD).My thoughts: This is an interesting change, and to prevent mass resses every VERY often, the CD will increase. Well thought out. But, here is the issue. The gyro dies EXTREMELY quick. I'm talking much faster than the old Function Gyro. It feels, currently, that the gyros that are summoned have 1/3 of the HP that the old one had. I watched Chaith's stream when the changes had just went live, and he was practicing its functionality on some of the combat NPCs in Heart of the Mists. He was practicing on a Guardian NPC, and the Guardian went down. He used the Function Gyro skill on the Guardian, and the Guardian proceeded to use its AoE knockback down skill. The Function Gyro was literally one shot destroyed by the Guard's downed skill. And when I say destroyed, I mean it died. It literally died. I don't feel this is a healthy change at all, and it completely invalidates the Function Gyro, which is supposed to be the main mechanic of the Scrapper. The health needs to be brought back to what the old Function Gyro was, possibly even a bit more, as its CD does increase when you are able to res or stomp multiple allies/enemies.Overall, interesting change, but not good at all. The aforementioned buff to its health pool will solve this issue.

Speed of Synergy: Using a leap finisher grants YOU, the scrapper ONLY, superspeed, and using a blast finishers apply superspeed around you.My thoughts: Great change to this skill, it previously being Decisive Renown. It really helps you stay on target after using blast and leap finishers, e.g. when using Hammer 3 (Rocket Charge) in your water field for that extra healing, you can now jump right back into combat and stick to your target afterwards as well to start providing counterpressure. Great change.

Impact Savant: A percentage of the strike (direct) damage you deal is converted into barrier. Your vitality, however, is reduced.My thoughts: I really like the concept and idea of this minor trait. It is probably one of the most intriguing changes, to me, in a skill in a long time. And I think it's a good change, but now here comes the flaw.The only time this really becomes something to be taken seriously, is if you play something with ferocity tied to it, and crit strike, like Marauder's or Demolishers. But even then, the barrier that you are generating is actually...not that good at all. Now I understand that you, ArenaNet, wanted to tone down the self barrier application slightly from the old Adaptive Armor, and make it baseline as it fits the Tank theme of the specialization. But only having 15% of the direct damage dealt to barrier is a little lacking. Especially on builds that would run Paladin's or Knight's amulet.My proposed changes to this skill would be actually quite minor, and exist in 3 possibilities of which you could choose 1 of:1) Increase the % of direct damage to barrier from 15% to 20%. This would be a healthy change, and give tankier amulets an option without having to suffer horrid deaths while feeling useless.OR 2) Remove the 300 Vitality loss. Keep the direct damage to barrier 15%, but remove the 300 Vitality so we have more health to help keep us alive while we're slugging it out with enemies in battle.OR 3) Change the trait to be a nerfed version of Adaptive Armor. Let it give 600-700 barrier when struck, and have an internal cooldown of 3s. That way, the self barrier application is there, and it could save your rear-end in a pinch, but not too stupidly overpowered that the old super bunker unkillable scrapper is back.Any one of these 3 changes that I suggested for this trait would put the Scrapper in a better spot in terms of survivability, probably in a way you wouldn't expect. But the change itself, besides the flaws just listed, is a good change and promotes active play and wanting to be in combat to get the benefits of staying alive in battle.

The other traits in the Major trait selection areas (Adept, Master, Grandmaster) I feel are actually in good spots, and do something majorly interesting and beneficial for your build, depending on what way you want to go down the path. The problem is in the Function Gyro itself and Impact savant. Other than that, solid changes, and if the things listed here are changed accordingly, I could see some interesting builds using Damage Dampener and Applied Force, along with Gyroscopic Acceleration in a group setting as a teamfighter tank to help your allies peel out of sticky situations, while taking the damage you're taking in the process that would otherwise be instant and having a chance to build up some barrier to mitigate the delayed damage, taking Bulwark Gyro to also buff up your barrier applied to yourself while also mitigating some damage your allies are taking. Please, to the devs at ArenaNet, give this a read and consider the changes, as currently the way the flawed skills/traits mentioned play actually hurts the Scrapper's survivability. Thank you for taking the time to read this and considering this constructive feedback. If i have a change of mind about anything, I'll either edit the post or include in a separate post that quotes the original.

Your post reminds me of the some of the overly Hopeful mesmers and their faith in Anet.When it works, it works...until then, Im staying away from this spec. I learned my lesson with the Druid.

You called the changes to Function Gyro 'interesting'.

If you had a Porsche and with my magic wand I changed your Porsche into a Orange Pinto, would you call that an 'interesting' change?0-60 in 48 seconds. "Whew boy, that sure is interesting." Blows up if rear ended "Another unexpected and 'interesting' change."I have other less less polite words for the blatant but colorfully packaged and 'media' spin they put on this nerf.

Function Gyro-Dies immediately.MUCH Shorter Range.MUCH Longer Cooldown.

I don't need to rez 3 people or stomp 3 people.More hitpoints isn't the only thing that will solve this.At this very moment, f5 Gyro Rez is worse than Rangers 'Search and Rescue' trait.

Interesting right? Only if you like Ford Pintos.3 months from now when they finally make changes, it will Still be a Ford Pinto with a better paint job.Are you going to come back and praise the changes? Remember this post.

What he said -> @Blood Red Arachnid.2493

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I hate how these balance patch notes always drop while I'm in the middle of fibro fog. It's hard to have sound judgement when you can't remember where you are for half the time. So far, I really don't like these changes. I'll highlight a few of them.

Overload: Overloading now disables all toolbelt skills for its duration.

Blowtorch: This skill now applies 4 stacks of burning that scales dynamically between 3 and 6 seconds based on distance from the target. This skill now scales damage dynamically based on distance rather than using distance thresholds.

Scrapper—Function Gyro: While scrapper specialization is equipped, this skill now occupies the F5 slot. Recharge has been increased to 30 seconds. This skill trait is now ground targeted at a range of 600 and creates a lightning field at the target point with a radius of 180. Within this radius, it spawns up to 6 function gyros targeting up to 3 enemies and/or 3 allies. Enemies are finished while allies are revived. This skill's recharge is increased by 50% for each function gyro spawned beyond the first.

Impact Savant: This trait no longer increases damage while you have barrier. Instead it converts 15% of all outgoing strike damage into barrier and reduces vitality by 300.

Gyroscopic Acceleration: This new trait causes wells to give superspeed when they end and increases well radius. Additionally, it causes your function gyro skill to give superspeed in an area when cast.

System Shocker: This new trait causes your function gyro to inflict daze in an area for 0.5 seconds when cast. Improves effectiveness of all lightning field finishers by 50%.

Mass Momentum: This trait has been moved to the adept tier. It no longer grants power based on toughness. Instead it causes your function gyro to grant stability in an area when cast in addition to causing stability to pulse might.

Damage Dampener: This new trait causes 20% of all damage dealt to you to be dealt after a 2-second delay from the initial strike. In PvE only, the damage delay is increased to 33%.

Object in Motion: This new trait increases outgoing damage by 5% if you have swiftness, superspeed, or stability. Each boon increases the bonus damage by 5%, up to a maximum of 15% if you have all three.

Adaptive Armor: This trait no longer gives barrier when struck. Instead, it increases the barrier received by 15%, in addition to reducing condition damage by 20% while you have a barrier.

Kinetic Stabilizers: This trait is no longer triggered by Function Gyro. Instead it increases the duration of stuns and daze effects by 25%. It also grants stability and superspeed when disabling a foe.

Applied Force: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now also grants +200 power while you have quickness. It now grants quickness when at or above 10 stacks of might rather than only when above 10 stacks. Fixed various bugs that could cause inconsistent trigger behavior.

The biggest problem with Impact Savant is that it forces people into a certain playstyle. It reminds me a bit of the time where suddenly it was decreed that reaper had to be a power spec and scourge a condi spec. I saw my condi reaper build nerfed again and again in each balance patch. Yet this is what I loved to play and it felt really bad.In my opinion profession design should open up more and more possible build diversity, not limit everyone to one "correct" path to take.

Impact Savant is the most egregious example in this balance patch. You get -3000 HP via the -300 VIT forced on you which you are supposed to offset by causing damage.Yet a viable build of scrapper is a pure support spec so Impact Savant reads about: "You lose 2950 HP." which feels of course very bad, especially considering the hefty removal of Rapid Regeneration (used to be like 600 HP/s heal) and the slight nerf to Bulwark Gyro.

How about changing Impact Savant to this:

A percentage of the strike damage you deal or healing you do on allies is converted into barrier. Your vitality is reduced.

Conversion Percent: 15% (or insert "balanced number")Attribute penalty Vitality: -300

This would keep scrapper more open to different playstyles and reward people for being active with allies around.It still wouldn't help you much when you are alone, but healing scrappers would at least be rewarded for doing the job they are supposed to do.

A trait, let alone a grandmaster trait (even minor) should NOT consist of being only a penalty in my opinion.

I would prefer to see the new barrier boost (the kitten adaptive armor replacement) moved into the minor line (replacing savant), and then given a grandmaster choice between barrier on strike OR rapid regen.

That way condi/gyro/sustain builds can choose rapid regen and full power zerker builds can choose savant.

Easier to balance. Gives us build choices. Easy change based on the current situation.

It doesnt bring back the on hit barrier of adaptive armor, but they could always un-nerf previous rapid regen nerfs a bit to make up for it.

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:I liked this suggestion:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/cet18c/the_rework_destroyed_scrapper_build_diversity_but/

Fortunately, there is a way to keep the rework and save condi/healing Scrapper builds: Change Impact Savant to ALSO generate barrier based on condition damage and outgoing healing.

@"Ghos.1326" said:Hello folks here in the forum, and at ArenaNet. I just want to break down these changes in a constructive way, both positively and negatively, to provide feedback to the developers who worked hard in designing and implementing these changes. I'll go into as much detail as I can in terms of the change, why I think it's good/not so good, and how it should proceed moving forward (buffs/nerfs). Please keep an open mind, and try not flame. Also, feel free to offer up some unique suggestions and ideas of your own.

Lets begin with the Function Gyro changes. In this patch, we have seen the Function Gyro now becoming a skill and replacing our elite toolbelt skill (or as we call it the F5). It summons up to 6 gyros, 3 for ressing and 3 for stomping, if there are a mass piling of said bodies in the given radius of the skill's effect. Cooldown increases by 50% for every gyro summoned after the first (so 15 more seconds of CD).My thoughts: This is an interesting change, and to prevent mass resses every VERY often, the CD will increase. Well thought out. But, here is the issue. The gyro dies EXTREMELY quick. I'm talking much faster than the old Function Gyro. It feels, currently, that the gyros that are summoned have 1/3 of the HP that the old one had. I watched Chaith's stream when the changes had just went live, and he was practicing its functionality on some of the combat NPCs in Heart of the Mists. He was practicing on a Guardian NPC, and the Guardian went down. He used the Function Gyro skill on the Guardian, and the Guardian proceeded to use its AoE knockback down skill. The Function Gyro was literally one shot destroyed by the Guard's downed skill. And when I say destroyed, I mean it died. It literally died. I don't feel this is a healthy change at all, and it completely invalidates the Function Gyro, which is supposed to be the main mechanic of the Scrapper. The health needs to be brought back to what the old Function Gyro was, possibly even a bit more, as its CD does increase when you are able to res or stomp multiple allies/enemies.Overall, interesting change, but not good at all. The aforementioned buff to its health pool will solve this issue.

Speed of Synergy: Using a leap finisher grants YOU, the scrapper ONLY, superspeed, and using a blast finishers apply superspeed around you.My thoughts: Great change to this skill, it previously being Decisive Renown. It really helps you stay on target after using blast and leap finishers, e.g. when using Hammer 3 (Rocket Charge) in your water field for that extra healing, you can now jump right back into combat and stick to your target afterwards as well to start providing counterpressure. Great change.

Impact Savant: A percentage of the strike (direct) damage you deal is converted into barrier. Your vitality, however, is reduced.My thoughts: I really like the concept and idea of this minor trait. It is probably one of the most intriguing changes, to me, in a skill in a long time. And I think it's a good change, but now here comes the flaw.The only time this really becomes something to be taken seriously, is if you play something with ferocity tied to it, and crit strike, like Marauder's or Demolishers. But even then, the barrier that you are generating is actually...not that good at all. Now I understand that you, ArenaNet, wanted to tone down the self barrier application slightly from the old Adaptive Armor, and make it baseline as it fits the Tank theme of the specialization. But only having 15% of the direct damage dealt to barrier is a little lacking. Especially on builds that would run Paladin's or Knight's amulet.My proposed changes to this skill would be actually quite minor, and exist in 3 possibilities of which you could choose 1 of:1) Increase the % of direct damage to barrier from 15% to 20%. This would be a healthy change, and give tankier amulets an option without having to suffer horrid deaths while feeling useless.OR 2) Remove the 300 Vitality loss. Keep the direct damage to barrier 15%, but remove the 300 Vitality so we have more health to help keep us alive while we're slugging it out with enemies in battle.OR 3) Change the trait to be a nerfed version of Adaptive Armor. Let it give 600-700 barrier when struck, and have an internal cooldown of 3s. That way, the self barrier application is there, and it could save your rear-end in a pinch, but not too stupidly overpowered that the old super bunker unkillable scrapper is back.Any one of these 3 changes that I suggested for this trait would put the Scrapper in a better spot in terms of survivability, probably in a way you wouldn't expect. But the change itself, besides the flaws just listed, is a good change and promotes active play and wanting to be in combat to get the benefits of staying alive in battle.

The other traits in the Major trait selection areas (Adept, Master, Grandmaster) I feel are actually in good spots, and do something majorly interesting and beneficial for your build, depending on what way you want to go down the path. The problem is in the Function Gyro itself and Impact savant. Other than that, solid changes, and if the things listed here are changed accordingly, I could see some interesting builds using Damage Dampener and Applied Force, along with Gyroscopic Acceleration in a group setting as a teamfighter tank to help your allies peel out of sticky situations, while taking the damage you're taking in the process that would otherwise be instant and having a chance to build up some barrier to mitigate the delayed damage, taking Bulwark Gyro to also buff up your barrier applied to yourself while also mitigating some damage your allies are taking. Please, to the devs at ArenaNet, give this a read and consider the changes, as currently the way the flawed skills/traits mentioned play actually hurts the Scrapper's survivability. Thank you for taking the time to read this and considering this constructive feedback. If i have a change of mind about anything, I'll either edit the post or include in a separate post that quotes the original.

i'd recommend reading the entire post. either you didn't and missed my negative, yet constructive, feedback, or you only choose to pay close close attention to the negative and blatantly ignore the positive sides as well from a neutral standpoint, which is not recommended.

The scrapper has been scrapped.

Scrapper was overperforming the past months before this patch, but builds of other classes were overperforming aswell. I dont understand why just scrapper got such a obliterating "rework", thats sad... Its now far away from beeing a serious or viable spec. No one of the new traits are really good, and the worst is the unavoidable -300 vit trait.Build diversity are decreasing with such reworks, condi and heal/support builds doesnt synergize well now.

I'm so happy for the big nerfs to Scrapper survivability.

And so beyond furious at hulking empty void that remains the Scrapper's offensive and defensive utility. Reviving is very hard with the new Function Gyro and no Toss Elixir X.

If Scrapper can't be a tank, it has to be a threat. Damage modifiers are meaningless when your ability to lock down, keep up, and apply damage to a moving enemy is non-existent.

That feeling when your opponent decides that they don’t want to eat your damage anymore, so they move back a little.

@aetemes.2603 said:The scrapper has been scrapped.

Well said! Still PO'd Anet!

@Warrior Xsr.1672 said:

@aetemes.2603 said:The scrapper has been scrapped.

The game has also been scrapped for myself and many players from what I've been reading. Pretty much no one is happy with this patch. So many blunders and as an engi main who plays WvW... GG.

@"Chaith.8256" said:If Scrapper can't be a tank, it has to be a threat. Damage modifiers are meaningless when your ability to lock down, keep up, and apply damage to a moving enemy is non-existent.

Thief, Mesmer, and Rangers are all almost impossible to kill now. Scourge and Warrior are now in a whole new level and we stand 0 chance at surviving. And to add insult to injury. I can't reveal stealth'd players anymore. And all 3 use stealth efficiently. Yes we have stealth too. But I am still cringing at the last nerf you made to our stealth in our prior "balance". Grrrrrr! :/ Anet do you even care that we as a whole, feel wronged? :/

@Undo.5091 said:That feeling when your opponent decides that they don’t want to eat your damage anymore, so they move back a little.

haha yep.

@Ghos.1326 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:I liked this suggestion:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/cet18c/the_rework_destroyed_scrapper_build_diversity_but/

Fortunately, there is a way to keep the rework and save condi/healing Scrapper builds: Change Impact Savant to ALSO generate barrier based on condition damage and outgoing healing.

@Ghos.1326 said:Hello folks here in the forum, and at ArenaNet. I just want to break down these changes in a constructive way, both positively and negatively, to provide feedback to the developers who worked hard in designing and implementing these changes. I'll go into as much detail as I can in terms of the change, why I think it's good/not so good, and how it should proceed moving forward (buffs/nerfs). Please keep an open mind, and try not flame. Also, feel free to offer up some unique suggestions and ideas of your own.

Lets begin with the Function Gyro changes. In this patch, we have seen the Function Gyro now becoming a skill and replacing our elite toolbelt skill (or as we call it the F5). It summons up to 6 gyros, 3 for ressing and 3 for stomping, if there are a mass piling of said bodies in the given radius of the skill's effect. Cooldown increases by 50% for every gyro summoned after the first (so 15 more seconds of CD).My thoughts: This is an interesting change, and to prevent mass resses every VERY often, the CD will increase. Well thought out. But, here is the issue. The gyro dies EXTREMELY quick. I'm talking much faster than the old Function Gyro. It feels, currently, that the gyros that are summoned have 1/3 of the HP that the old one had. I watched Chaith's stream when the changes had just went live, and he was practicing its functionality on some of the combat NPCs in Heart of the Mists. He was practicing on a Guardian NPC, and the Guardian went down. He used the Function Gyro skill on the Guardian, and the Guardian proceeded to use its AoE knockback down skill. The Function Gyro was literally one shot destroyed by the Guard's downed skill. And when I say destroyed, I mean it died. It literally died. I don't feel this is a healthy change at all, and it completely invalidates the Function Gyro, which is supposed to be the main mechanic of the Scrapper. The health needs to be brought back to what the old Function Gyro was, possibly even a bit more, as its CD does increase when you are able to res or stomp multiple allies/enemies.Overall, interesting change, but not good at all. The aforementioned buff to its health pool will solve this issue.

Speed of Synergy: Using a leap finisher grants YOU, the scrapper ONLY, superspeed, and using a blast finishers apply superspeed around you.My thoughts: Great change to this skill, it previously being Decisive Renown. It really helps you stay on target after using blast and leap finishers, e.g. when using Hammer 3 (Rocket Charge) in your water field for that extra healing, you can now jump right back into combat and stick to your target afterwards as well to start providing counterpressure. Great change.

Impact Savant: A percentage of the strike (direct) damage you deal is converted into barrier. Your vitality, however, is reduced.My thoughts: I really like the concept and idea of this minor trait. It is probably one of the most intriguing changes, to me, in a skill in a long time. And I think it's a good change, but now here comes the flaw.The only time this really becomes something to be taken seriously, is if you play something with ferocity tied to it, and crit strike, like Marauder's or Demolishers. But even then, the barrier that you are generating is actually...not that good at all. Now I understand that you, ArenaNet, wanted to tone down the self barrier application slightly from the old Adaptive Armor, and make it baseline as it fits the Tank theme of the specialization. But only having 15% of the direct damage dealt to barrier is a little lacking. Especially on builds that would run Paladin's or Knight's amulet.My proposed changes to this skill would be actually quite minor, and exist in 3 possibilities of which you could choose 1 of:1) Increase the % of direct damage to barrier from 15% to 20%. This would be a healthy change, and give tankier amulets an option without having to suffer horrid deaths while feeling useless.OR 2) Remove the 300 Vitality loss. Keep the direct damage to barrier 15%, but remove the 300 Vitality so we have more health to help keep us alive while we're slugging it out with enemies in battle.OR 3) Change the trait to be a nerfed version of Adaptive Armor. Let it give 600-700 barrier when struck, and have an internal cooldown of 3s. That way, the self barrier application is there, and it could save your rear-end in a pinch, but not too stupidly overpowered that the old super bunker unkillable scrapper is back.Any one of these 3 changes that I suggested for this trait would put the Scrapper in a better spot in terms of survivability, probably in a way you wouldn't expect. But the change itself, besides the flaws just listed, is a good change and promotes active play and wanting to be in combat to get the benefits of staying alive in battle.

The other traits in the Major trait selection areas (Adept, Master, Grandmaster) I feel are actually in good spots, and do something majorly interesting and beneficial for your build, depending on what way you want to go down the path. The problem is in the Function Gyro itself and Impact savant. Other than that, solid changes, and if the things listed here are changed accordingly, I could see some interesting builds using Damage Dampener and Applied Force, along with Gyroscopic Acceleration in a group setting as a teamfighter tank to help your allies peel out of sticky situations, while taking the damage you're taking in the process that would otherwise be instant and having a chance to build up some barrier to mitigate the delayed damage, taking Bulwark Gyro to also buff up your barrier applied to yourself while also mitigating some damage your allies are taking. Please, to the devs at ArenaNet, give this a read and consider the changes, as currently the way the flawed skills/traits mentioned play actually hurts the Scrapper's survivability. Thank you for taking the time to read this and considering this constructive feedback. If i have a change of mind about anything, I'll either edit the post or include in a separate post that quotes the original.

For the second time, I read the post.

My problem is with your word usage "Interesting".Here is the tldr of your interesting gyro

My thoughts: This is an interesting change, and to prevent mass resses every VERY often, the CD will increase. Well thought out.Have you seen how small an area you can rez or stomp in?

The gyro dies EXTREMELY quick. I'm talking much faster than the old Function Gyro. It feels, currently, that the gyros that are summoned have 1/3 of the HP that the old one had.Agree and that's awful.

I watched Chaith's stream when the changes had just went live, and he was practicing its functionality on some of the combat NPCs in Heart of the Mists. He was practicing on a Guardian NPC, and the Guardian went down. He used the Function Gyro skill on the Guardian, and the Guardian proceeded to use its AoE knockback down skill. The Function Gyro was literally one shot destroyed by the Guard's downed skill. And when I say destroyed, I mean it died. It literally died.

Yep, it's soft, tissue paper soft. So soft, it's worse than the Search and Rescue trait rangers get. That is more reliable than the current F5 stomp/rez.

I don't feel this is a healthy change at all, and it completely invalidates the Function Gyro, which is supposed to be the main mechanic of the Scrapper. The health needs to be brought back to what the old Function Gyro was, possibly even a bit more, as its CD does increase when you are able to res or stomp multiple allies/enemies.Overall, interesting change, but not good at all. The aforementioned buff to its health pool will solve this issue.

It's not an interesting change. It's a poorly designed change that effects pvp/wvw scrappers much more than it in a pve environment.

The Cooldown is longerThe Range is shorter.The Rez only works in the best of situations where I could probably get off a normal rez anyway.Saying that 'the buff to the health pool will solve this issue', is untrue. And You know what? I don't care anymore. No amount of talking about it will change anything.