WEAVER IS OVERPOWERED!! - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

WEAVER IS OVERPOWERED!!

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  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭

    Can u imagine getting killed by a weaver guys, the slowest class in this meta, even necro is more mobile than fire weaver rofl

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    If only there was some sort of viable CC build to lock them down..

    lolololololololololololol

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    If only there was some sort of viable CC build to lock them down..

    lolololololololololololol

    Are you "lololo" because of their stability uptime being longer than you can fight them or there is any other reason?:>

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    If only there was some sort of viable CC build to lock them down..

    lolololololololololololol

    Are you "lololo" because of their stability uptime being longer than you can fight them or there is any other reason?:>

    Holo builds can lock down eles. Prot holo in particular is a hard counter to condi ele. Since ele has only a few CC's, they're easy pickins when their dodges run out.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    If only there was some sort of viable CC build to lock them down..

    lolololololololololololol

    Are you "lololo" because of their stability uptime being longer than you can fight them or there is any other reason?:>

    Laughing because the only viable CC build to do it just got removed from the game.

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    What isn't OP these day?

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ultramex.1506 said:
    What isn't OP these day?

    You!

    Sorry couldn't help myself.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    If only there was some sort of viable CC build to lock them down..

    lolololololololololololol

    Are you "lololo" because of their stability uptime being longer than you can fight them or there is any other reason?:>

    Holo builds can lock down eles. Prot holo in particular is a hard counter to condi ele. Since ele has only a few CC's, they're easy pickins when their dodges run out.

    Havent seen even one in a loooooooooooong time, I bet the are get kitten'd by spellbreakers

  • Crann.1342Crann.1342 Member ✭✭

    just walk away dude LOOOOOOL how are you dying to a weaver for real dude like what the hell dude lmao

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Buff weav's:)

  • Okay I final came to testing it sword weaver in Pvp is still near trash level. I don't know what he/she saw.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crann.1342 said:
    just walk away dude LOOOOOOL how are you dying to a weaver for real dude like what the hell dude lmao

    By eating all of the easy to read skill animations

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    Mace deamon revs can put some decent pressure as well... and they have quite decent of torment and boon removal.

    Torment tends to hurt a lot the piano gameplay.

  • ZhouX.8742ZhouX.8742 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    If only there was some sort of viable CC build to lock them down..

    but holo does fine against weaver

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZhouX.8742 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    If only there was some sort of viable CC build to lock them down..

    but holo does fine against weaver

    ~~ The joke. ~

    ~~ You. ~~~~

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why isn't this thread moved to ele subforum?

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Why isn't this thread moved to ele subforum?

    Seems they only move buff requests to the subs. There are many mesmer threads in PvP too.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Fought one in WvW a week or so ago that was difficult to kill. I just had to hard CC them and the damage started to stick enough for them to panic and run. They eventually died.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personnaly, I just run in circle, I don't even try to kill them unless i need the cap or to be somewhere else. Weaver has a hard time damaging moving targets.

  • cgMatt.5162cgMatt.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    Hard countered by WASD keys because of the range, smh.

  • @cgMatt.5162 said:
    Hard countered by WASD keys because of the range, smh.

    you'd be surprised how many people just stand still

  • Lich King.1524Lich King.1524 Member ✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    need to add to Fire Ele,
    20% to toughness
    or 30% more to health pool,
    or 50% more conditions removal to balance his sustain vs other classes

    currently the weaver is too squishy, necro, holo, war can too easily kill him...
    chilling or CC kills ele too quickly.,..

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    I see this kind of reaction a lot from inexperienced PvP players. I make a point to meme these interactions as much as possible in my videos because it's too funny.

    let me just say it very clearly

    IF YOU FACEROLL YOUR ENTIRE BURST/BOMB WITHIN THE FIRST 6 SECONDS OF COMBAT, I'M GOING TO EVADE EVERYTHING - YOU WILL LOOK SILLY

    LITERALLY ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS BAIT MY COOLDOWNS. AVOID STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO ME LIKE A LOST CHILD WHILE I STACK BURNS. Fire Weaver is very squishy-- it just has a good sustain combo which makes people think it's '''''''tanky'''''' despite being quite vulnerable to experienced players

    Ele gets buffed to be on-par with the other cheese builds in this game and suddenly it's an issue that I can do what your class/build has been able to do for years.

    Stay classy - directed at nobody in particular, just those who insist --- after knowing all this ---- that it is somehow unacceptable.

    edit: changed a little grammar to reflect a softer, less edgy tone than originally - my bad - I forget to be courteous sometimes and will work on it.

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part II |
    | Fire Weaver Isn't Unfair You Just Need To Understand It |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part III |
    | Ex-Anvil Rock (RIP) |
    | NSP (main) | CD (alt) |

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    Can u imagine getting killed by a weaver guys, the slowest class in this meta, even necro is more mobile than fire weaver rofl

    ?????
    Is this a troll? Weaver with sw/d has a shadowstep, 1200 range mobility skill, lightning flash, fiery greatsword with 2 long range mobility skills, plus super speed via ToF. Even if you're running a straight fire weaver build you will still always have air 2/air 4, plus the use of fire 2 which is faster than combat running + twist of fate superspeed + perma swiftness uptime.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Personnaly, I just run in circle, I don't even try to kill them unless i need the cap or to be somewhere else. Weaver has a hard time damaging moving targets.

    That's a reasonable thing to do but think about it like a WW2 dogfight. All the weaver has to do is turn within your radius. Most of them (well, most players of any class*) don't have very good movement skill though so this can work vs inexperienced.

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part II |
    | Fire Weaver Isn't Unfair You Just Need To Understand It |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part III |
    | Ex-Anvil Rock (RIP) |
    | NSP (main) | CD (alt) |

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    Can u imagine getting killed by a weaver guys, the slowest class in this meta, even necro is more mobile than fire weaver rofl

    ?????
    Is this a troll? Weaver with sw/d has a shadowstep, 1200 range mobility skill, lightning flash, fiery greatsword with 2 long range mobility skills, plus super speed via ToF. Even if you're running a straight fire weaver build you will still always have air 2/air 4, plus the use of fire 2 which is faster than combat running + twist of fate superspeed + perma swiftness uptime.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Personnaly, I just run in circle, I don't even try to kill them unless i need the cap or to be somewhere else. Weaver has a hard time damaging moving targets.

    That's a reasonable thing to do but think about it like a WW2 dogfight. All the weaver has to do is turn within your radius. Most of them (well, most players of any class*) don't have very good movement skill though so this can work vs inexperienced.

    Wait? Who's side are you on anyway?...

    Anyway, Fire Weaver doesn't use dagger offhand. It literally destroys the point of the build. Half of these complaints are invalid. But, in case you're fighting an Ele using dagger, then hit him with condi's. A fire Weaver using dagger will melt, and rightfully deserves it.

    Fire 2 has a range of 450. Are we seriously complaining about that?

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    I think Weaver is in an okayish spot right now. Talking from a 1700-ranking perspective on EU.

    1) Fire S/F is kind of like a meme like burn guard, but with significantly more sustain. It is strong on side nodes, some builds get utterly destroyed indeed. It is also very vulnerable to specific enemy combos - a water Weaver, Firebrand, condi sidenoders can shut it down easily, in team fights it cannot bring it's damage (low AoE) into play and lacks tools to sustain through pressure after a few seconds (evade frames, ToF, earth 5). It cannot escape or kite properly in the current meta. But it is okay as a slow, sustainy and dangerous specialised sidenoder.

    What I'd like to see: Change the glyph. The burst is cheap, the CD resetting while it's active promotes spamming it basically off CD and I would prefer condis to not be as bursty but more DPSy. I'd prefer some kind of cover condition added to be able to pressure those cleanse heavy classes a little instead of the burn burst. That only works as a noob filter anyway.

    2) Water S/D is the old bunker, but since the stability got fixed, it can sustain for a long while (as usual). It has some mobility to control one side and have some impact in team fights at the same time (the mobility cooldowns are huge though compared to other classes). There are very few build being able to push it off node in a duel, but specific builds can pressure it quickly in +1s, so it's not an unkillable bunker. It is more versatile than fire Weaver, but has less kill potential.

    One can still argue that the evade frames are unfun. If some barriers were increased - for using dual skills for example -, I'd be fine with the reduction on the evade frame of water 2 or something like this. Also, the argument of low range from sword and it's dual skills is still an issue to me.

    Classes like Yolosmith and Spellbreaker still outshine it not because they are better sidenoders, but because they can fullfill more roles: They are more/as mobile, might have a little less sustain but have huge and high AoE damage - they can have significant impact in team fights, 2on2s and +1 scenarios. But it is more or less okay balancing-wise in my view. Minor tweaks would be nice to carve out more specific role choices in some traitlines.

  • Tiviana.2650Tiviana.2650 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @cgMatt.5162 said:
    Hard countered by WASD keys because of the range, smh.

    you'd be surprised how many people just stand still

    So what you are saying is, weaver is op against target dummies.

  • solemn.9608solemn.9608 Member ✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    Can u imagine getting killed by a weaver guys, the slowest class in this meta, even necro is more mobile than fire weaver rofl

    ?????
    Is this a troll? Weaver with sw/d has a shadowstep, 1200 range mobility skill, lightning flash, fiery greatsword with 2 long range mobility skills, plus super speed via ToF. Even if you're running a straight fire weaver build you will still always have air 2/air 4, plus the use of fire 2 which is faster than combat running + twist of fate superspeed + perma swiftness uptime.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Personnaly, I just run in circle, I don't even try to kill them unless i need the cap or to be somewhere else. Weaver has a hard time damaging moving targets.

    That's a reasonable thing to do but think about it like a WW2 dogfight. All the weaver has to do is turn within your radius. Most of them (well, most players of any class*) don't have very good movement skill though so this can work vs inexperienced.

    Wait? Who's side are you on anyway?...

    Anyway, Fire Weaver doesn't use dagger offhand. It literally destroys the point of the build. Half of these complaints are invalid. But, in case you're fighting an Ele using dagger, then hit him with condi's. A fire Weaver using dagger will melt, and rightfully deserves it.

    Fire 2 has a range of 450. Are we seriously complaining about that?

    I don’t know, you tell me what ‘side’ I’m on, I didn’t realize this was a black & white issue. I’m just calling it as I see it. This is my alt btw I’m on break at work, this is SoulSlavocracy.####

    I already have 4 or 5 montages to prove that wrong but if you’re still not convinced I’m always willing to demonstrate that dagger is the superior option for fire weaver in a weaver vs weaver 1v1 - nothing personal of course, just to prove a point. If you melt because you use dagger it’s orobably because you’re clueless - ok that was a little personal but it’s the truth. Focus is good for a few reasons but you don’t need it. Water 4/5 and the transmute aura trait make it extremely powerful for both damage and sustain. I’ve used almost every weaver/ele build in the game for awhile now and can safely say that focus doesn’t belong with fire weaver - it’s simply a suboptimal choice compared to dagger offhand for both sustain and damage.

    Sure you have projectile hate and an invuln, I have just as much condi cleanse with dagger + more healing + more damage + more aoe and the same amount of CC, PLUS 1200 range mobility, an extra evade (air 5) and a suppressing skill (earth 5 makes everybody with a brain run away).. Just use it wisely and it’s smooth sailing. Yheez the amount of ill-informed opinions about weaver is dizzying sometimes. I don’t need reflects to take on rangers when I already have evades and mobility skills up the kitten...

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    Can u imagine getting killed by a weaver guys, the slowest class in this meta, even necro is more mobile than fire weaver rofl

    ?????
    Is this a troll? Weaver with sw/d has a shadowstep, 1200 range mobility skill, lightning flash, fiery greatsword with 2 long range mobility skills, plus super speed via ToF. Even if you're running a straight fire weaver build you will still always have air 2/air 4, plus the use of fire 2 which is faster than combat running + twist of fate superspeed + perma swiftness uptime.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Personnaly, I just run in circle, I don't even try to kill them unless i need the cap or to be somewhere else. Weaver has a hard time damaging moving targets.

    That's a reasonable thing to do but think about it like a WW2 dogfight. All the weaver has to do is turn within your radius. Most of them (well, most players of any class*) don't have very good movement skill though so this can work vs inexperienced.

    Wait? Who's side are you on anyway?...

    Anyway, Fire Weaver doesn't use dagger offhand. It literally destroys the point of the build. Half of these complaints are invalid. But, in case you're fighting an Ele using dagger, then hit him with condi's. A fire Weaver using dagger will melt, and rightfully deserves it.

    Fire 2 has a range of 450. Are we seriously complaining about that?

    I don’t know, you tell me what ‘side’ I’m on, I didn’t realize this was a black & white issue. I’m just calling it as I see it. This is my alt btw I’m on break at work, this is SoulSlavocracy.####

    I already have 4 or 5 montages to prove that wrong but if you’re still not convinced I’m always willing to demonstrate that dagger is the superior option for fire weaver in a weaver vs weaver 1v1 - nothing personal of course, just to prove a point. If you melt because you use dagger it’s orobably because you’re clueless - ok that was a little personal but it’s the truth. Focus is good for a few reasons but you don’t need it. Water 4/5 and the transmute aura trait make it extremely powerful for both damage and sustain. I’ve used almost every weaver/ele build in the game for awhile now and can safely say that focus doesn’t belong with fire weaver - it’s simply a suboptimal choice compared to dagger offhand for both sustain and damage.

    Sure you have projectile hate and an invuln, I have just as much condi cleanse with dagger + more healing + more damage + more aoe and the same amount of CC. Just use it wisely and it’s smooth sailing. Yheez the amount of ill-informed opinions about weaver is dizzying sometimes.

    The biggest advantage of focus offhand is the fire aura and the transmute. It is not only a good DPS source, it is also a very powerful cleansing tool (you cannot transmute the fire attunement auras unless using the elite, but you can transmute procs from combos and runes).

    Dagger definitely has other advantages. Mobility, more AoE pressure, it depends on what you want to play. I very much doubt someone could give an objective proof here.

    €: kitten am I saying, of course you can transmute attunement fire auras when you use the cleansing trait.

  • solemn.9608solemn.9608 Member ✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    Can u imagine getting killed by a weaver guys, the slowest class in this meta, even necro is more mobile than fire weaver rofl

    ?????
    Is this a troll? Weaver with sw/d has a shadowstep, 1200 range mobility skill, lightning flash, fiery greatsword with 2 long range mobility skills, plus super speed via ToF. Even if you're running a straight fire weaver build you will still always have air 2/air 4, plus the use of fire 2 which is faster than combat running + twist of fate superspeed + perma swiftness uptime.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Personnaly, I just run in circle, I don't even try to kill them unless i need the cap or to be somewhere else. Weaver has a hard time damaging moving targets.

    That's a reasonable thing to do but think about it like a WW2 dogfight. All the weaver has to do is turn within your radius. Most of them (well, most players of any class*) don't have very good movement skill though so this can work vs inexperienced.

    Wait? Who's side are you on anyway?...

    Anyway, Fire Weaver doesn't use dagger offhand. It literally destroys the point of the build. Half of these complaints are invalid. But, in case you're fighting an Ele using dagger, then hit him with condi's. A fire Weaver using dagger will melt, and rightfully deserves it.

    Fire 2 has a range of 450. Are we seriously complaining about that?

    I don’t know, you tell me what ‘side’ I’m on, I didn’t realize this was a black & white issue. I’m just calling it as I see it. This is my alt btw I’m on break at work, this is SoulSlavocracy.####

    I already have 4 or 5 montages to prove that wrong but if you’re still not convinced I’m always willing to demonstrate that dagger is the superior option for fire weaver in a weaver vs weaver 1v1 - nothing personal of course, just to prove a point. If you melt because you use dagger it’s orobably because you’re clueless - ok that was a little personal but it’s the truth. Focus is good for a few reasons but you don’t need it. Water 4/5 and the transmute aura trait make it extremely powerful for both damage and sustain. I’ve used almost every weaver/ele build in the game for awhile now and can safely say that focus doesn’t belong with fire weaver - it’s simply a suboptimal choice compared to dagger offhand for both sustain and damage.

    Sure you have projectile hate and an invuln, I have just as much condi cleanse with dagger + more healing + more damage + more aoe and the same amount of CC. Just use it wisely and it’s smooth sailing. Yheez the amount of ill-informed opinions about weaver is dizzying sometimes.

    The biggest advantage of focus offhand is the fire aura and the transmute. It is not only a good DPS source, it is also a very powerful cleansing tool (you cannot transmute the fire attunement auras unless using the elite, but you can transmute procs from combos and runes).

    Dagger definitely has other advantages. Mobility, more AoE pressure, it depends on what you want to play. I very much doubt someone could give an objective proof here.

    You can transmute frost aura with dagger offhand tho, for 3 condi cleanses (5 with antitoxin which is what I run) + heals and regen.plus water 5 for another 2 condi cleansed (3 w/ AT rune). Fire 4 is very thin and doesn’t hit for much, fire 5 is glitchy and actually pretty good but not as good as fire grab or ring of Fire. I think that’s pretty objective man

    You don’t see ppl running focus offhand getting 9k fire grab crits while doing 4K+ burn ticks

    Also I’m not trying to kitten on everyone who uses focus offhand on fire weaver - if you want to experiment with it then that’s cool, I’m not trying to be rude, but that guy just straight up called out dagger offhand like it was some garbage choice — meanwhile it’s the superior choice, lol kitten

  • ZhouX.8742ZhouX.8742 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @ZhouX.8742 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    If only there was some sort of viable CC build to lock them down..

    but holo does fine against weaver

    ~~ The joke. ~

    ~~ You. ~~~~

    you don't think holo plays well against weaver? also in group play as well?

    yes i know you're salty about mesmer getting CI disabled, but asking if you genuinely think holo can handle weaver

    also, i know it's not a joke to you seeing as you cry about mesmer nerfs in nearly every single thread... you actually take this to heart so stop trying to play it off like it's a joke when you complain about mesmer nerfs.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tiviana.2650 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @cgMatt.5162 said:
    Hard countered by WASD keys because of the range, smh.

    you'd be surprised how many people just stand still

    So what you are saying is, weaver is op against target dummies.

    True story. Eles' sad story.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    Can u imagine getting killed by a weaver guys, the slowest class in this meta, even necro is more mobile than fire weaver rofl

    ?????
    Is this a troll? Weaver with sw/d has a shadowstep, 1200 range mobility skill, lightning flash, fiery greatsword with 2 long range mobility skills, plus super speed via ToF. Even if you're running a straight fire weaver build you will still always have air 2/air 4, plus the use of fire 2 which is faster than combat running + twist of fate superspeed + perma swiftness uptime.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Personnaly, I just run in circle, I don't even try to kill them unless i need the cap or to be somewhere else. Weaver has a hard time damaging moving targets.

    That's a reasonable thing to do but think about it like a WW2 dogfight. All the weaver has to do is turn within your radius. Most of them (well, most players of any class*) don't have very good movement skill though so this can work vs inexperienced.

    Wait? Who's side are you on anyway?...

    Anyway, Fire Weaver doesn't use dagger offhand. It literally destroys the point of the build. Half of these complaints are invalid. But, in case you're fighting an Ele using dagger, then hit him with condi's. A fire Weaver using dagger will melt, and rightfully deserves it.

    Fire 2 has a range of 450. Are we seriously complaining about that?

    I don’t know, you tell me what ‘side’ I’m on, I didn’t realize this was a black & white issue. I’m just calling it as I see it. This is my alt btw I’m on break at work, this is SoulSlavocracy.####

    I already have 4 or 5 montages to prove that wrong but if you’re still not convinced I’m always willing to demonstrate that dagger is the superior option for fire weaver in a weaver vs weaver 1v1 - nothing personal of course, just to prove a point. If you melt because you use dagger it’s orobably because you’re clueless - ok that was a little personal but it’s the truth. Focus is good for a few reasons but you don’t need it. Water 4/5 and the transmute aura trait make it extremely powerful for both damage and sustain. I’ve used almost every weaver/ele build in the game for awhile now and can safely say that focus doesn’t belong with fire weaver - it’s simply a suboptimal choice compared to dagger offhand for both sustain and damage.

    Sure you have projectile hate and an invuln, I have just as much condi cleanse with dagger + more healing + more damage + more aoe and the same amount of CC. Just use it wisely and it’s smooth sailing. Yheez the amount of ill-informed opinions about weaver is dizzying sometimes.

    The biggest advantage of focus offhand is the fire aura and the transmute. It is not only a good DPS source, it is also a very powerful cleansing tool (you cannot transmute the fire attunement auras unless using the elite, but you can transmute procs from combos and runes).

    Dagger definitely has other advantages. Mobility, more AoE pressure, it depends on what you want to play. I very much doubt someone could give an objective proof here.

    You can transmute frost aura with dagger offhand tho, for 3 condi cleanses (5 with antitoxin which is what I run) + heals and regen.plus water 5 for another 2 condi cleansed (3 w/ AT rune). Fire 4 is very thin and doesn’t hit for much, fire 5 is glitchy and actually pretty good but not as good as fire grab or ring of Fire. I think that’s pretty objective man

    You don’t see ppl running focus offhand getting 9k fire grab crits while doing 4K+ burn ticks

    Also I’m not trying to kitten on everyone who uses focus offhand on fire weaver - if you want to experiment with it then that’s cool, I’m not trying to be rude, but that guy just straight up called out dagger offhand like it was some garbage choice — meanwhile it’s the superior choice, lol kitten

    You are the same there. It's neither, it just has different purposes. And since fire Weaver (in PvP) needs fire auras and transmuting those (because you can have a huge lot of them) is needed versus many team compositions.

    You also seem to come from a WvW background, right? Those runes don't exist in PvP, I think I saw some vid of yours and those numbers at the same time are hard to come by in PVP. With all the equipment choices and the bigger area, a lot of things change - mobility is much much more important for example which promotes dagger usage of course.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @solemn.9608 said:

    I don’t know, you tell me what ‘side’ I’m on, I didn’t realize this was a black & white issue. I’m just calling it as I see it. This is my alt btw I’m on break at work, this is SoulSlavocracy.####

    I already have 4 or 5 montages to prove that wrong but if you’re still not convinced I’m always willing to demonstrate that dagger is the superior option for fire weaver in a weaver vs weaver 1v1 - nothing personal of course, just to prove a point. If you melt because you use dagger it’s orobably because you’re clueless - ok that was a little personal but it’s the truth. Focus is good for a few reasons but you don’t need it. Water 4/5 and the transmute aura trait make it extremely powerful for both damage and sustain. I’ve used almost every weaver/ele build in the game for awhile now and can safely say that focus doesn’t belong with fire weaver - it’s simply a suboptimal choice compared to dagger offhand for both sustain and damage.

    Sure you have projectile hate and an invuln, I have just as much condi cleanse with dagger + more healing + more damage + more aoe and the same amount of CC, PLUS 1200 range mobility, an extra evade (air 5) and a suppressing skill (earth 5 makes everybody with a brain run away).. Just use it wisely and it’s smooth sailing. Yheez the amount of ill-informed opinions about weaver is dizzying sometimes. I don’t need reflects to take on rangers when I already have evades and mobility skills up the kitten...

    The salt is strong with this one... It's actually a very black and white issue. This thread is concerning whether Weaver is OP or not. Yes, or no- simple

    It sounds like using dagger off hand is your preference, because it's not the standard. You sound like this incredible, experienced, omniscient Weaver, so taking your playstyle into consideration would be a disservice to all those below you. We don't count the 1%.

    Dagger sacrifices sustain for damage. Dagger does not have just as much condi cleanse. Earth 4 on focus has more cleanse than water 5, so focus in total has more. That's why I said hit them with condi's. Kitten, hit them with power damage. It doesn't matter, they'll melt.

  • @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    Can u imagine getting killed by a weaver guys, the slowest class in this meta, even necro is more mobile than fire weaver rofl

    ?????
    Is this a troll? Weaver with sw/d has a shadowstep, 1200 range mobility skill, lightning flash, fiery greatsword with 2 long range mobility skills, plus super speed via ToF. Even if you're running a straight fire weaver build you will still always have air 2/air 4, plus the use of fire 2 which is faster than combat running + twist of fate superspeed + perma swiftness uptime.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Personnaly, I just run in circle, I don't even try to kill them unless i need the cap or to be somewhere else. Weaver has a hard time damaging moving targets.

    That's a reasonable thing to do but think about it like a WW2 dogfight. All the weaver has to do is turn within your radius. Most of them (well, most players of any class*) don't have very good movement skill though so this can work vs inexperienced.

    Wait? Who's side are you on anyway?...

    Anyway, Fire Weaver doesn't use dagger offhand. It literally destroys the point of the build. Half of these complaints are invalid. But, in case you're fighting an Ele using dagger, then hit him with condi's. A fire Weaver using dagger will melt, and rightfully deserves it.

    Fire 2 has a range of 450. Are we seriously complaining about that?

    I don’t know, you tell me what ‘side’ I’m on, I didn’t realize this was a black & white issue. I’m just calling it as I see it. This is my alt btw I’m on break at work, this is SoulSlavocracy.####

    I already have 4 or 5 montages to prove that wrong but if you’re still not convinced I’m always willing to demonstrate that dagger is the superior option for fire weaver in a weaver vs weaver 1v1 - nothing personal of course, just to prove a point. If you melt because you use dagger it’s orobably because you’re clueless - ok that was a little personal but it’s the truth. Focus is good for a few reasons but you don’t need it. Water 4/5 and the transmute aura trait make it extremely powerful for both damage and sustain. I’ve used almost every weaver/ele build in the game for awhile now and can safely say that focus doesn’t belong with fire weaver - it’s simply a suboptimal choice compared to dagger offhand for both sustain and damage.

    Sure you have projectile hate and an invuln, I have just as much condi cleanse with dagger + more healing + more damage + more aoe and the same amount of CC. Just use it wisely and it’s smooth sailing. Yheez the amount of ill-informed opinions about weaver is dizzying sometimes.

    The biggest advantage of focus offhand is the fire aura and the transmute. It is not only a good DPS source, it is also a very powerful cleansing tool (you cannot transmute the fire attunement auras unless using the elite, but you can transmute procs from combos and runes).

    Dagger definitely has other advantages. Mobility, more AoE pressure, it depends on what you want to play. I very much doubt someone could give an objective proof here.

    You can transmute frost aura with dagger offhand tho, for 3 condi cleanses (5 with antitoxin which is what I run) + heals and regen.plus water 5 for another 2 condi cleansed (3 w/ AT rune). Fire 4 is very thin and doesn’t hit for much, fire 5 is glitchy and actually pretty good but not as good as fire grab or ring of Fire. I think that’s pretty objective man

    You don’t see ppl running focus offhand getting 9k fire grab crits while doing 4K+ burn ticks

    Also I’m not trying to kitten on everyone who uses focus offhand on fire weaver - if you want to experiment with it then that’s cool, I’m not trying to be rude, but that guy just straight up called out dagger offhand like it was some garbage choice — meanwhile it’s the superior choice, lol kitten

    You are the same there. It's neither, it just has different purposes. And since fire Weaver (in PvP) needs fire auras and transmuting those (because you can have a huge lot of them) is needed versus many team compositions.

    You also seem to come from a WvW background, right? Those runes don't exist in PvP, I think I saw some vid of yours and those numbers at the same time are hard to come by in PVP. With all the equipment choices and the bigger area, a lot of things change - mobility is much much more important for example which promotes dagger usage of course.

    Well ya that’s a fair point but I still use mobility all the time for kiting in ranked. I placed plat 1 using sw/d fire weaver with Orr runes/sage and Balthazar runes/cele, I think the reason many don’t like dagger is bc they don’t know that pressuring your opponent is equally important as sustain — get a quick burn/burst in and they’ll immediately retreat on their heals.

    Also you don’t need fire auras - it’s just auras that transmute conditions. Fire auras gain increased duration, that’s all

  • @kittyfur.6459 said:
    Ridic. I see them constantly heal from 20% to 100 in literally no time. 2 toons wailing on it and CANNOT kill. I thought scrapper was bad..this is ABSURD. fix this bs.

    Maybe cool off for a few minutes after your lost game to a good weaver before posting an ALL CAPS thread in the forum? Might be more effective.

  • @Stallic.2397 said:

    @solemn.9608 said:

    I don’t know, you tell me what ‘side’ I’m on, I didn’t realize this was a black & white issue. I’m just calling it as I see it. This is my alt btw I’m on break at work, this is SoulSlavocracy.####

    I already have 4 or 5 montages to prove that wrong but if you’re still not convinced I’m always willing to demonstrate that dagger is the superior option for fire weaver in a weaver vs weaver 1v1 - nothing personal of course, just to prove a point. If you melt because you use dagger it’s orobably because you’re clueless - ok that was a little personal but it’s the truth. Focus is good for a few reasons but you don’t need it. Water 4/5 and the transmute aura trait make it extremely powerful for both damage and sustain. I’ve used almost every weaver/ele build in the game for awhile now and can safely say that focus doesn’t belong with fire weaver - it’s simply a suboptimal choice compared to dagger offhand for both sustain and damage.

    Sure you have projectile hate and an invuln, I have just as much condi cleanse with dagger + more healing + more damage + more aoe and the same amount of CC, PLUS 1200 range mobility, an extra evade (air 5) and a suppressing skill (earth 5 makes everybody with a brain run away).. Just use it wisely and it’s smooth sailing. Yheez the amount of ill-informed opinions about weaver is dizzying sometimes. I don’t need reflects to take on rangers when I already have evades and mobility skills up the kitten...

    The salt is strong with this one... It's actually a very black and white issue. This thread is concerning whether Weaver is OP or not. Yes, or no- simple

    It sounds like using dagger off hand is your preference, because it's not the standard. You sound like this incredible, experienced, omniscient Weaver, so taking your playstyle into consideration would be a disservice to all those below you. We don't count the 1%.

    Dagger sacrifices sustain for damage. Dagger does not have just as much condi cleanse. Earth 4 has more than water 5, so focus in total has more. That's why I said hit them with condi's. Kitten, hit them with power damage. It doesn't matter, they'll melt.

    Uhhh ok a few things wrong here

    1) dagger has 3 condi cleanse via water 4 and 2 via water 5. Focus has 3 from earth 4. So .... no. Forgive me for my subordinance my supreme weaver Pro, but you appear to be wrong there.

    2) no, I’m just stating facts. If you want to get all egotistical about how I have to be some ego lord in order to have a few educated opinions, go for it! You sound like you must be better than all of us anyway so go ahead and school me, my lord.

    Also dagger does not sacrifice sustain lol. You lose an invuln and some projectile hate. That’s it. Dagger gives minimum 5 condi cleanses and a massive heal burst via water 4/5. GL doing that with focus

    But please supreme weaver, tell me how I’m the egotistical one just for staying what is true lol kitten man get outta here

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @solemn.9608 said:

    I don’t know, you tell me what ‘side’ I’m on, I didn’t realize this was a black & white issue. I’m just calling it as I see it. This is my alt btw I’m on break at work, this is SoulSlavocracy.####

    I already have 4 or 5 montages to prove that wrong but if you’re still not convinced I’m always willing to demonstrate that dagger is the superior option for fire weaver in a weaver vs weaver 1v1 - nothing personal of course, just to prove a point. If you melt because you use dagger it’s orobably because you’re clueless - ok that was a little personal but it’s the truth. Focus is good for a few reasons but you don’t need it. Water 4/5 and the transmute aura trait make it extremely powerful for both damage and sustain. I’ve used almost every weaver/ele build in the game for awhile now and can safely say that focus doesn’t belong with fire weaver - it’s simply a suboptimal choice compared to dagger offhand for both sustain and damage.

    Sure you have projectile hate and an invuln, I have just as much condi cleanse with dagger + more healing + more damage + more aoe and the same amount of CC, PLUS 1200 range mobility, an extra evade (air 5) and a suppressing skill (earth 5 makes everybody with a brain run away).. Just use it wisely and it’s smooth sailing. Yheez the amount of ill-informed opinions about weaver is dizzying sometimes. I don’t need reflects to take on rangers when I already have evades and mobility skills up the kitten...

    The salt is strong with this one... It's actually a very black and white issue. This thread is concerning whether Weaver is OP or not. Yes, or no- simple

    It sounds like using dagger off hand is your preference, because it's not the standard. You sound like this incredible, experienced, omniscient Weaver, so taking your playstyle into consideration would be a disservice to all those below you. We don't count the 1%.

    Dagger sacrifices sustain for damage. Dagger does not have just as much condi cleanse. Earth 4 has more than water 5, so focus in total has more. That's why I said hit them with condi's. Kitten, hit them with power damage. It doesn't matter, they'll melt.

    Uhhh ok a few things wrong here

    1) dagger has 3 condi cleanse via water 4 and 2 via water 5. Focus has 3 from earth 4. So .... no. Forgive me for my subordinance my supreme weaver Pro, but you appear to be wrong there.

    2) no, I’m just stating facts. If you want to get all egotistical about how I have to be some ego lord in order to have a few educated opinions, go for it! You sound like you must be better than all of us anyway so go ahead and school me, my lord.

    Also dagger does not sacrifice sustain lol. You lose an invuln and some projectile hate. That’s it. Dagger gives minimum 5 condi cleanses and a massive heal burst via water 4/5. GL doing that with focus

    But please supreme weaver, tell me how I’m the egotistical one just for staying what is true lol kitten man get outta here

    Focus has 3 from earth 4 but you're forgetting fire aura from fire 5. That's 6! One more than dagger! Plus, if you're a fire Weaver, you attune to fire once to get the aura, then double attune to get a second aura. That grants you an additional cleanse. Thing is, you can't benefit from that on dagger offhand because you can't transmute.

    I literally stopped reading after point one

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think it's a matter of preference. I prefer dagger over focus for the mobility, plus rtl is definitely one of the coolest skill ig. And i hate flame wall. So long cd for nothing.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @solemn.9608 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    Can u imagine getting killed by a weaver guys, the slowest class in this meta, even necro is more mobile than fire weaver rofl

    ?????
    Is this a troll? Weaver with sw/d has a shadowstep, 1200 range mobility skill, lightning flash, fiery greatsword with 2 long range mobility skills, plus super speed via ToF. Even if you're running a straight fire weaver build you will still always have air 2/air 4, plus the use of fire 2 which is faster than combat running + twist of fate superspeed + perma swiftness uptime.

    @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    Personnaly, I just run in circle, I don't even try to kill them unless i need the cap or to be somewhere else. Weaver has a hard time damaging moving targets.

    That's a reasonable thing to do but think about it like a WW2 dogfight. All the weaver has to do is turn within your radius. Most of them (well, most players of any class*) don't have very good movement skill though so this can work vs inexperienced.

    Wait? Who's side are you on anyway?...

    Anyway, Fire Weaver doesn't use dagger offhand. It literally destroys the point of the build. Half of these complaints are invalid. But, in case you're fighting an Ele using dagger, then hit him with condi's. A fire Weaver using dagger will melt, and rightfully deserves it.

    Fire 2 has a range of 450. Are we seriously complaining about that?

    I don’t know, you tell me what ‘side’ I’m on, I didn’t realize this was a black & white issue. I’m just calling it as I see it. This is my alt btw I’m on break at work, this is SoulSlavocracy.####

    I already have 4 or 5 montages to prove that wrong but if you’re still not convinced I’m always willing to demonstrate that dagger is the superior option for fire weaver in a weaver vs weaver 1v1 - nothing personal of course, just to prove a point. If you melt because you use dagger it’s orobably because you’re clueless - ok that was a little personal but it’s the truth. Focus is good for a few reasons but you don’t need it. Water 4/5 and the transmute aura trait make it extremely powerful for both damage and sustain. I’ve used almost every weaver/ele build in the game for awhile now and can safely say that focus doesn’t belong with fire weaver - it’s simply a suboptimal choice compared to dagger offhand for both sustain and damage.

    Sure you have projectile hate and an invuln, I have just as much condi cleanse with dagger + more healing + more damage + more aoe and the same amount of CC. Just use it wisely and it’s smooth sailing. Yheez the amount of ill-informed opinions about weaver is dizzying sometimes.

    The biggest advantage of focus offhand is the fire aura and the transmute. It is not only a good DPS source, it is also a very powerful cleansing tool (you cannot transmute the fire attunement auras unless using the elite, but you can transmute procs from combos and runes).

    Dagger definitely has other advantages. Mobility, more AoE pressure, it depends on what you want to play. I very much doubt someone could give an objective proof here.

    You can transmute frost aura with dagger offhand tho, for 3 condi cleanses (5 with antitoxin which is what I run) + heals and regen.plus water 5 for another 2 condi cleansed (3 w/ AT rune). Fire 4 is very thin and doesn’t hit for much, fire 5 is glitchy and actually pretty good but not as good as fire grab or ring of Fire. I think that’s pretty objective man

    You don’t see ppl running focus offhand getting 9k fire grab crits while doing 4K+ burn ticks

    Also I’m not trying to kitten on everyone who uses focus offhand on fire weaver - if you want to experiment with it then that’s cool, I’m not trying to be rude, but that guy just straight up called out dagger offhand like it was some garbage choice —� meanwhile it’s the superior choice, lol kitten

    You are the same there. It's neither, it just has different purposes. And since fire Weaver (in PvP) needs fire auras and transmuting those (because you can have a huge lot of them) is needed versus many team compositions.

    You also seem to come from a WvW background, right? Those runes don't exist in PvP, I think I saw some vid of yours and those numbers at the same time are hard to come by in PVP. With all the equipment choices and the bigger area, a lot of things change - mobility is much much more important for example which promotes dagger usage of course.

    Well ya that’s a fair point but I still use mobility all the time for kiting in ranked. I placed plat 1 using sw/d fire weaver with Orr runes/sage and Balthazar runes/cele, I think the reason many don’t like dagger is bc they don’t know that pressuring your opponent is equally important as sustain —� get a quick burn/burst in and they’ll immediately retreat on their heals.

    Also you don’t need fire auras - it’s just auras that transmute conditions. Fire auras gain increased duration, that’s all

    Yepp, I could imagine it serving more of a +1 role or even team fighting role? Fire and earth skills have big AoEs and with the added mobility it might work.

    The point about fire auras is: You have so freaking many of them. Attuning to fire, jumps in fire fields and the skill itself, you can basically transmute it off the 8s CD. That's a lot of cleanses - not as much and not as controllable as with water, because...

    ... I feel like we are talking too much about details.^^ I don't think any Weaver build is overpowered. Tweaks for more fun to play and play against, but not problematic balancingwise. Peace out. :smile:

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    Yepp, I could imagine it serving more of a +1 role or even team fighting role? Fire and earth skills have big AoEs and with the added mobility it might work.

    That's generally how I play in ranked yeah - hold side nodes because it's a very good duelist build and then run into center and roleplay as a scourge for a bit.
    Anyway cheers man you were very respectful and kept a good conversation going.

    @Stallic.2397 said:
    Focus has 3 from earth 4 but you're forgetting fire aura from fire 5. That's 6! One more than dagger! Plus, if you're a fire Weaver, you attune to fire once to get the aura, then double attune to get a second aura. That grants you an additional cleanse. Thing is, you can't benefit from that on dagger offhand because you can't transmute.

    I literally stopped reading after point one

    Ok so you have an extra condi cleanse, and you can attune to fire to get the same aura that I get using dagger. You can't transmute the fire aura you get from attuning to fire regardless of your offhand (unless there is some mechanic at play that transmutes both when you use focus fire 5, but I don't think so...)

    But I literally stopped seeing you as someone with any credibility to their word as soon as you admitted you're not even reading what I'm saying. that you are refusing to think critically or go beyond your pride.

    You ignored nearly everything I said in my last post and then tried to do a quick "gotcha! hahAQhAha I'm Not EVEN reading what You"rRe Saying because I'm right about everything all the time!"

    well I am defeated
    good job
    I think I've had enough for one thread

    signing off now, take care. No hard feelings but seriously wth man lmao I hope you think about what you said.

    | Solemn [PAL][shrd][wHo][DoM][BOZ] |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part II |
    | Fire Weaver Isn't Unfair You Just Need To Understand It |
    | Wrath of God Staff Weaver Part III |
    | Ex-Anvil Rock (RIP) |
    | NSP (main) | CD (alt) |

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    @solemn.9608 said:
    I already have 4 or 5 montages to prove that wrong but if you’re still not convinced I’m always willing to demonstrate that dagger is the superior option for fire weaver in a weaver vs weaver 1v1 - nothing personal of course, just to prove a point. If you melt because you use dagger it’s orobably because you’re clueless - ok that was a little personal but it’s the truth.

    Pretty prideful...

    You ignored nearly everything I said in my last post and then tried to do a quick "gotcha! hahAQhAha I'm Not EVEN reading what You"rRe Saying because I'm right about everything all the time!"

    well I am defeated
    good job
    I think I've had enough for one thread

    signing off now, take care. No hard feelings but seriously wth man lmao I hope you think about what you said.

    Now change of tone.
    Oh how the mighty have fallen. Cheers mate

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2019

    @ZhouX.8742 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @ZhouX.8742 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    If only there was some sort of viable CC build to lock them down..

    but holo does fine against weaver

    ~~ The joke. ~

    ~~ You. ~~~~

    you don't think holo plays well against weaver? also in group play as well?

    yes i know you're salty about mesmer getting CI disabled, but asking if you genuinely think holo can handle weaver

    also, i know it's not a joke to you seeing as you cry about mesmer nerfs in nearly every single thread... you actually take this to heart so stop trying to play it off like it's a joke when you complain about mesmer nerfs.

    Im not salty about CI lmao

    I think its a joke and a perfect reflection of our community... those with half a brain cell and those who changed builds even in the slightest possible way were handling CI fine but big daddy anet surfed in on the tears of many to disable the trait for them.

    You really need to get better at your accusations, perhaps some facts might help because of the 32 characters I have, im known to main DD Tempest and to start weird trends like stealth DH trapper so maybe actually understanding whats going on before posting could help?

    but to answer your question... I can handle Holo fine on both Weaver and Tempest... CI was keeping my Weaver in check so to speak while also giving my Tempest room to shine via Condi cleansing Auras in team fights... No CI = no hard counter on Weaver = Weaver OP threads. This is how balance works, you screw with something on your left and something on your right will break too. It's like a pond, and we throw rocks into it hoping the ripples don't collide. You could even say there's a butterfly effect or balance has it's very own Ecosystem, you take away the hunter and the hunted becomes the hunter.

    TLDR: Weaver is not OP... Anet's questionable choices are.

  • Grimjack.8130Grimjack.8130 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2019

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 / @solemn.9608 Friend, I have news for you. Focus is better than Dagger offhand for Fire Weaver. This is not an opinion I alone hold, you can ask any other renowned Weaver, you can ask Koto, Phanta, Illegal Math, or Crann.

    Off-hand Dagger does less cleanse than Focus does, by alot even. You get 3 cleanse off of Dagger? You get more than 6 off of Focus. Magnetic Wave does 3, Fire Aura application does 1, Detonating Fire Aura is two, but the CD on Detonating is so so low that you can cast it 2-3 times before you would cast Cleansing Wave a second time.

    Ring of Fire does do more burning than Detonating Fire Aura, but once again the CD is a bit longer than Transmuting Fire Aura and its not uncommon to detonate it in quick successions of each other, its not a huge difference either way in this case, but something to note is its very easy to do Blink Bursts with Transmuting Fire Aura as once you finish the cast of detonating it, theres a slight delay on the damage packet actually being thrown out there.
    Fire Grab is a weird skill, its great, but you're on Sage Amulet, so best case scenario you're at 25% (or 40% with the Weakness trait.) crit chance, with no Ferocity too, this skill won't hit too hard in the grand scheme of things.

    Ride the Lightning? Great skill, but it won't do much. 1200 range is not a long distance with the power crept mobility skills we've had put in the game, not to mention the permanent abundance of Revenant and Thief in sPvP. It's not as good as a blink would be, its a huge difference and one people skip over.
    Updraft is used for it's CC more than the evade, so its not strictly worse than Obsidian Flesh, but Obsidian Flesh is so many miles better sustain wise, and Gale is one of the best CCs in the entire game which makes Updraft look really bad, even when you consider that you get a whole-nother skill on Dagger.

    Earthquake is a great skill, not much I can say negative about it, but Gale is better.
    Churning Earth is undersold alot, but you're overhyping it. It's amazing in the Mesmer matchup, you'll always come out ahead when you decide to cast it, its guaranteed to force sometime of CD in pretty much any other matchup too. However thats where its perks end really. You force a dodge, or a full counter, or you cleave out a bunch of clones. Nothing more.

    Frost Aura is amazing, but will it make a difference in those situations where you die in, no. The only times a Weaver should die is when it has no answers, no nothing to get out of it. A 20% damage reduction will make you last 2 seconds longer (if that), but you can't do anything after those 2 seconds, you're still dead.
    Cleansing Wave is a big old "meh" skill. Its overhyped. As a Weaver you should always be resustaining back to FULL(remember that word its important) health after about 12-15 seconds. If you full heal anyways, that 2k-3k heal from Cleansing Wave is irrelevant, and if you're not full healing you're mechanics are struggling, not your offhand. This is the exact same reason Water as a traitline starts to fall off, you don't need the raw healing it gives you at a certain point.

    Overall Dagger has a ton of average skills, and some skills that are great and warrant letting you run it like Ring of Fire, Firegrab, and Earthquake.
    Focus has some pretty bad skills just like Dagger though, Freezing Gust is very lackluster, sure Chill can be pretty strong sometimes, even 3 seconds of it, but its lackluster. Comet is an amazing skill so much of the time, but others its not better Earthquake, not even close.
    But you always have Obsidian Flesh, Detonate Fire Aura, Gale, Swirling Winds, and Magnetic Wave, that are just so good, in every scenario.

    Focus is superior to Dagger so much, in this meta that its better than Dagger on Sages Water most of the time as well.

    I'm a well known nobody.
    Former member of [MnF], [DnT], [dP], and [Hg]. Winner of the 2018 ERP Tournament.

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