I think Strike Missions are a good idea

I have long thought that too much focus on zerg-style open world content has hurt GW2's development and retention of players mostly because there's no real way to have adequate design control around it and any sense of true strategy or immersion just falls flat. This is why nixing dungeons years ago was a bad idea that the game suffered from.

They might need to iterate on the execution, but I think strike missions can provide an experience that is still pretty casual friendly but holds a degree of design and challenge control - making you feel like you're accomplishing something as a group (immersive) instead of just being in a totally anonymous spam fest with hordes of players at random with particle effects covering the screen (not immersive at all.)

So, keep 'em coming. If they can hammer it out well, I'd actually love to see them retroactively transform some DE encounters into strike missions.

I sort of agree, but... are they really so different than fractals? Take away the fractal lobby and the tiers, and what is the difference really? Both are just stripped down dungeons for people who can’t time commit to the length of a full dungeon.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for them, and I like the greater 10 man group size, but let’s be honest, content wise they’re really not much different.

@Hawken.7932 said:I sort of agree, but... are they really so different than fractals? Take away the fractal lobby and the tiers, and what is the difference really?

Better story, perhaps? All the fractals are events torn out of history that don't fit into the game as they have no direct connection to any current events. They feel out of place to me and really boring, too (with few exceptions). I hope Strike Missions are going to improve drastically as they make for great content additions to the current plot, which makes them much more exciting than fractals story-wise.

@Hawken.7932 said:I sort of agree, but... are they really so different than fractals? Take away the fractal lobby and the tiers, and what is the difference really? Both are just stripped down dungeons for people who can’t time commit to the length of a full dungeon.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for them, and I like the greater 10 man group size, but let’s be honest, content wise they’re really not much different.

Nothing really, although the public version takes away some of the stigmas associated with instances and 10 man takes away a lot of the pressure on individual members. They are like early style fractals though and those were always the best ones imo.

The idea behind them is fine - I think they are a perfectly good addition. My concerns mostly revolve around execution and if adding too many will cause older ones to die off. Theres little to support the latter concern at least. Execution was a wobbly start with undertuned difficulty and a jp that annoys more than anything else. The boss looked great though.

I also hope these dont form a long term excuse to do less things like open world bosses, champs, bounties etc. Part of the games charm is that you can encounter things as you explore. If these are purely additions, then fantastic.

@Ashantara.8731 said:Better story, perhaps? All the fractals are events torn out of history that don't fit into the game as they have no direct connection to any current events. They feel out of place to me and really boring, too (with few exceptions). I hope Strike Missions are going to improve drastically as they make for great content additions to the current plot, which makes them much more exciting than fractals story-wise.

That’s true. I do like that they are an extension of the map/story you’re on, much like dungeons were. That’s something I really miss from the old dungeon design. It would be amazing if they provided multiple strike missions for each map. That would take the best from both dungeons and fractals.

I feel that the main complaint about strike missions is that the one we have now isn't hard enough (and i do agree, since in order to help people grow into raids it needs to encourage 10 man groups). I also believe that the format they seem to have now is great and should be kept short like this.

Although you could potentially solo or duo the mission, the goal isn't just about finishing it, its about having a good enough team synergy to beat the boss fast enough to get all of the bonus chests.

Once we get more of them we should get strike LFG and even a lobby. Otherwise older missions will just die.

@"Zinerith.5203" said:I feel that the main complaint about strike missions is that the one we have now isn't hard enough (and i do agree, since in order to help people grow into raids it needs to encourage 10 man groups).This is very relevant. The existing strike becomes more fun when you low-man it. It doesn't re-enforce the need for a full ten people at all.

To the OP:In principle I love the idea of Strikes, but here's the thing:We were fed a boss fight in the story that was easier than any we have seen in years in this game. It was a hollow experience that ultimately left the final story instance feeling very ho-hum to me. It certainly wasn't near as fun as fights I enjoy. S4 gave us some pretty good boss fights in the final story missions but S5 started with a weak end boss without so much as a breakbar or reason to break it."That's ok", I told myself, "maybe the new model is to put the "real fight" in the Strike"....then I got all relevant achievements in the first run with a group of pugs that was two people short.

Unless that_shaman's datamining pointing to a "hard mode" of the encounter is legit, this is all they are.And as is, Strikes represent the first time this franchise has left me down.

Like dungeon vendors, strike missions need strike vendors.

Strike Missions ask for Dungeons. Fractals are fractals and I would love if they could make Strike Missions into actually farmable Dungeons with their own currency.

Dungeons allow for a more consistent story within the instance. Fractals are literally a random event without much to it.

Well, abandoning Dungeons was, IMO, probably one of the worst decisions they made in the past.

Strike Missions are cool, but will they be challenging enough? Completing it doesn't feel like any sort of achievement to me.

I like strike missions so far but I dislike timers as artificial difficulty, if I want to solo a Boss with a shitty Build - why not let me sit there alone punching my boss for hours? Why did we have to get a timer there? The timer adds nothing to the fight other than limiting the player experience. I can easily solo the Boss if it weren't for that damn timer.I'd say difficulty wise the strike missions are in a fairly good position, they encourage people to form a group, especially since there is an achievement with a timelimit and they somewhat highlight the importance of a healer. I don't think they should be MUCH harder and definitly not easier.

However I can't see them as much of a stepping stone since if anything, the strike missions highlight that you can play and beat them with whatever bunch of builds you and your group enjoy playing - which is probably also the case for raids but raid community is gonna disagree.

@Anet: Timers don't make stuff more difficult only more stressful and offer less diverse options for build diversity. Basically: Timers are bad. Some people enjoy long grindy fights, what is the problem in that? Why do you feel the need to take that option away? Would the Boss be too easy if we had more time? No, the mechanics/damage/hp don't change, all it does is add an artificial dps requirement. If you want certain bosses to have dps requirements you could add healing mechanics that would otherwise outheal the dps and if you want to add even more interactivity to the game you could even add alternative means to overcome those healing mechanics so that groups with weaker dps can still somehow beat the boss. A timer adds zero fun and interactivity.

Sidenote: I'm not a game developer, I'm a player - and this is my opinion as a player. And as a player, I really enjoy beeing able to interact with whats happening in the game. I don't know about you guys but I cannot interact with a timer, I've tried bending time but it doesn't seem to work...

@SexyMofo.8923 said:Like dungeon vendors, strike missions need strike vendors.

yes pls :)

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:I like strike missions so far but I dislike timers as artificial difficulty, if I want to solo a Boss with a kitten Build - why not let me sit there alone punching my boss for hours? Why did we have to get a timer there? The timer adds nothing to the fight other than limiting the player experience. I can easily solo the Boss if it weren't for that kitten timer.I'd say difficulty wise the strike missions are in a fairly good position, they encourage people to form a group, especially since there is an achievement with a timelimit and they somewhat highlight the importance of a healer. I don't think they should be MUCH harder and definitly not easier.

However I can't see them as much of a stepping stone since if anything, the strike missions highlight that you can play and beat them with whatever bunch of builds you and your group enjoy playing - which is probably also the case for raids but raid community is gonna disagree.

@Anet: Timers don't make stuff more difficult only more stressful and offer less diverse options for build diversity. Basically: Timers are bad. Some people enjoy long grindy fights, what is the problem in that? Why do you feel the need to take that option away? Would the Boss be too easy if we had more time? No, the mechanics/damage/hp don't change, all it does is add an artificial dps requirement. If you want certain bosses to have dps requirements you could add healing mechanics that would otherwise outheal the dps and if you want to add even more interactivity to the game you could even add alternative means to overcome those healing mechanics so that groups with weaker dps can still somehow beat the boss. A timer adds zero fun and interactivity.

Sidenote: I'm not a game developer, I'm a player - and this is my opinion as a player. And as a player, I really enjoy beeing able to interact with whats happening in the game. I don't know about you guys but I cannot interact with a timer, I've tried bending time but it doesn't seem to work...

Its anets way to add dificulty to fights (mostly raids as first strike was too easy.) Adding a timer aka dps check forces players to play with comp that brings most dmg with as low sustain as possible. Doing this fights them self turns harder as you cant just cheese them with stacking healers. Lets take twin largos boss for example, that fight would be one of the easiest fights If there wasn't a timer as the timer is the MAIN reason why this fight fails, even if every1 is alive once it hits to zero. Now remove the timer and it might turn to easiest raid out there as you could take druid, scourge and tempest for your healers there and do it without splitting into two parties.

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:I like strike missions so far but I dislike timers as artificial difficulty, if I want to solo a Boss with a kitten Build - why not let me sit there alone punching my boss for hours? Why did we have to get a timer there? The timer adds nothing to the fight other than limiting the player experience. I can easily solo the Boss if it weren't for that kitten timer.I'd say difficulty wise the strike missions are in a fairly good position, they encourage people to form a group, especially since there is an achievement with a timelimit and they somewhat highlight the importance of a healer. I don't think they should be MUCH harder and definitly not easier.

However I can't see them as much of a stepping stone since if anything, the strike missions highlight that you can play and beat them with whatever bunch of builds you and your group enjoy playing - which is probably also the case for raids but raid community is gonna disagree.

@Anet: Timers don't make stuff more difficult only more stressful and offer less diverse options for build diversity. Basically: Timers are bad. Some people enjoy long grindy fights, what is the problem in that? Why do you feel the need to take that option away? Would the Boss be too easy if we had more time? No, the mechanics/damage/hp don't change, all it does is add an artificial dps requirement. If you want certain bosses to have dps requirements you could add healing mechanics that would otherwise outheal the dps and if you want to add even more interactivity to the game you could even add alternative means to overcome those healing mechanics so that groups with weaker dps can still somehow beat the boss. A timer adds zero fun and interactivity.

Sidenote: I'm not a game developer, I'm a player - and this is my opinion as a player. And as a player, I really enjoy beeing able to interact with whats happening in the game. I don't know about you guys but I cannot interact with a timer, I've tried bending time but it doesn't seem to work...

Yeah I know that it is anets way, what I'm saying is that I don't think it is a good way. It's artificial difficulty. The bosses aren't actually hard so they add a timer which they can fine tune until the boss feels like a hard boss due to time beeing beeing limited. I would prefer fights getting hard because we have to deal with mechanics. And I'm not talking about massive amounts of aoe damage or OHKO attacks. Difficulty in Anets eyes seems to depend on time available and number/size of AoE's which is really just annoying and stressful and not very fun or interactive. But as I said, this is my opinion and I know some people enjoy racing against time. Not sure though why they're not playing racing games

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:

@sokeenoppa.5384 said:

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:I like strike missions so far but I dislike timers as artificial difficulty, if I want to solo a Boss with a kitten Build - why not let me sit there alone punching my boss for hours? Why did we have to get a timer there? The timer adds nothing to the fight other than limiting the player experience. I can easily solo the Boss if it weren't for that kitten timer.I'd say difficulty wise the strike missions are in a fairly good position, they encourage people to form a group, especially since there is an achievement with a timelimit and they somewhat highlight the importance of a healer. I don't think they should be MUCH harder and definitly not easier.

However I can't see them as much of a stepping stone since if anything, the strike missions highlight that you can play and beat them with whatever bunch of builds you and your group enjoy playing - which is probably also the case for raids but raid community is gonna disagree.

@Anet: Timers don't make stuff more difficult only more stressful and offer less diverse options for build diversity. Basically: Timers are bad. Some people enjoy long grindy fights, what is the problem in that? Why do you feel the need to take that option away? Would the Boss be too easy if we had more time? No, the mechanics/damage/hp don't change, all it does is add an artificial dps requirement. If you want certain bosses to have dps requirements you could add healing mechanics that would otherwise outheal the dps and if you want to add even more interactivity to the game you could even add alternative means to overcome those healing mechanics so that groups with weaker dps can still somehow beat the boss. A timer adds zero fun and interactivity.

Sidenote: I'm not a game developer, I'm a player - and this is my opinion as a player. And as a player, I really enjoy beeing able to interact with whats happening in the game. I don't know about you guys but I cannot interact with a timer, I've tried bending time but it doesn't seem to work...

Have you raided before? Raid bosses are just what you are looking for. MANY of them has like 4-6 minutes time left once killed with casual group. Timer is there to only prevent ultimate cheese. There is only few bosses where time is actually a proplem. Many raid bosses has very intresting mechanics that are something else than just "avoid aoe". You might wanna check videos about qadim or w7 earth boss for example.

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:Yeah I know that it is anets way, what I'm saying is that I don't think it is a good way. It's artificial difficulty. The bosses aren't actually hard so they add a timer which they can fine tune until the boss feels like a hard boss due to time beeing beeing limited. I would prefer fights getting hard because we have to deal with mechanics. And I'm not talking about massive amounts of aoe damage or OHKO attacks. Difficulty in Anets eyes seems to depend on time available and number/size of AoE's which is really just annoying and stressful and not very fun or interactive. But as I said, this is my opinion and I know some people enjoy racing against time. Not sure though why they're not playing racing games

Then what should be the punishment for failing to execute mechanics in gw2 raids in your opinion? Since you are ruling out heavy (aoe) damage and OHKOs you must have some interesting ideas.

@Katary.7096 said:

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:Yeah I know that it is anets way, what I'm saying is that I don't think it is a good way. It's artificial difficulty. The bosses aren't actually hard so they add a timer which they can fine tune until the boss feels like a hard boss due to time beeing beeing limited. I would prefer fights getting hard because we have to deal with mechanics. And I'm not talking about massive amounts of aoe damage or OHKO attacks. Difficulty in Anets eyes seems to depend on time available and number/size of AoE's which is really just annoying and stressful and not very fun or interactive. But as I said, this is my opinion and I know some people enjoy racing against time. Not sure though why they're not playing racing games

I wanted to ask this too.

What mechanics should there be then o0

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Katary.7096 said:

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:Yeah I know that it is anets way, what I'm saying is that I don't think it is a good way. It's artificial difficulty. The bosses aren't actually hard so they add a timer which they can fine tune until the boss feels like a hard boss due to time beeing beeing limited. I would prefer fights getting hard because we have to deal with mechanics. And I'm not talking about massive amounts of aoe damage or OHKO attacks. Difficulty in Anets eyes seems to depend on time available and number/size of AoE's which is really just annoying and stressful and not very fun or interactive. But as I said, this is my opinion and I know some people enjoy racing against time. Not sure though why they're not playing racing games

We already have few intresting mechanics however those Will oneshot aswell If failed so i think he doesn't like those either?.Something that comes to my mind is qadim 1 lamp, Air boss CC, dhuum greens and fat one/small one thingy at samarog.

As an idea Strikes are good. If they are going to be of this lower than open world difficulty though they won't go far. The difficulty of the strike is more like Core Tyria open world, but that's also true for the entire prologue, story instances and meta events all have a similar difficulty to Core Tyria. This first Strike s a solo or duo experience, and the boss has no mechanics to speak of, other than the enrage timer.

@Katary.7096 said:

@"TwilightSoul.9048" said:Yeah I know that it is anets way, what I'm saying is that I don't think it is a good way. It's artificial difficulty. The bosses aren't actually hard so they add a timer which they can fine tune until the boss feels like a hard boss due to time beeing beeing limited. I would prefer fights getting hard because we have to deal with mechanics. And I'm not talking about massive amounts of aoe damage or OHKO attacks. Difficulty in Anets eyes seems to depend on time available and number/size of AoE's which is really just annoying and stressful and not very fun or interactive. But as I said, this is my opinion and I know some people enjoy racing against time. Not sure though why they're not playing racing games

Some ideas would be:1) Boss Heals to full (or a significant amount)2) Boss switches into some other phase (berserk/rage/bunker/whatever) which increases the pace of the fight in some way or introduces another mechanic to end that phase. Phases could increase the speed at which he executes actions or increase the damage of his non-ohko attacks or decrease the damage he takes by a significant amount or gain lifesteal or absorb damage as healing and so on...3) Boss does something Bosslike and interacts with the environment to create obstacles which the PC's need to overcome (aka introducing new mechanics into the fight as punishment for failing one)4) Boss goes into hiding and needs to be found/lured out/revealed with some new mechanics or interactions with the environment (maybe some inspiration from games like Dauntless where you actually have to go find the boss)

I don't find timers or AoE spam or unforgiving attacks that instagib you for one single mistake in the wrong second difficult in any way since there is no way for me to interact with them as a player.VS short timers: the only interaction is to stuff enough dps in your group which limits build diversity. With no interaction from any particular player - just play a top dps build with the required supports.VS AoE spam: just dodge the significant AoE's , sidestep as much as possible while staying close to your group and let your healers do the rest. Wowee, basically what we do in absolutely every other fight except that nowaday in many fights the amount of AoE's is so insane that sidestepping becomes irrelevant as well as long as you dodge that one AoE that'll ohko you.VS OHKO: lul just dodge, mistimed/out of endurance/immobilized/lag/whatever? lul ded l2p kek. There's a reason why almost every combo deck in hearthstone got nerfed at some point - because dying against something that you cannot prevent doesn't offer any interactivity and interactivity is the only difference between a game and a movie.

OHKO Attacks aren't generally terrible but they need to offer interactions of some sort and they should be rare.

I don't know if these are "interesting ideas" to you since this is basically my personal preference but I hope I could at least make my point of view clear.

PS: I actually enjoy playing combo decks in Hearthstone but I prefer those that have some setup which offers interactions to the opponent - Decks like the current otk pala are incredibly bad for the game since playing against it is basically like fighting a boss on a short timer - if you don't win in time (or gain 50+ armor) you loose.

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:

@Katary.7096 said:

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:Yeah I know that it is anets way, what I'm saying is that I don't think it is a good way. It's artificial difficulty. The bosses aren't actually hard so they add a timer which they can fine tune until the boss feels like a hard boss due to time beeing beeing limited. I would prefer fights getting hard because we have to deal with mechanics. And I'm not talking about massive amounts of aoe damage or OHKO attacks. Difficulty in Anets eyes seems to depend on time available and number/size of AoE's which is really just annoying and stressful and not very fun or interactive. But as I said, this is my opinion and I know some people enjoy racing against time. Not sure though why they're not playing racing games

In what way is this different to /gg and starting over if you hit enrage timer?

2) Boss switches into some other phase (berserk/rage/bunker/whatever) which increases the pace of the fight in some way or introduces another mechanic to end that phase. Phases could increase the speed at which he executes actions or increase the damage of his non-ohko attacks or decrease the damage he takes by a significant amount or gain lifesteal or absorb damage as healing and so on...

So more boss healing?Bosses do have phase changes tho with different mechanics. Deimos is a great example of it.

3) Boss does something Bosslike and interacts with the environment to create obstacles which the PC's need to overcome (aka introducing new mechanics into the fight as punishment for failing one)

Like deimos' black sludge?

4) Boss goes into hiding and needs to be found/lured out/revealed with some new mechanics or interactions with the environment (maybe some inspiration from games like Dauntless where you actually have to go find the boss)

Meh, that would just unnecessaryly lengthen a boss fight

I don't find timers or AoE spam or unforgiving attacks that instagib you for one single mistake in the wrong second difficult in any way since there is no way for me to interact with them as a player.

you don't interact, that's the point... you dodge. But with a good healers, many raids have less instakill mechanics than people think. I'm not great at dodging and I don't insta die in the few raids I've done.

VS short timers: the only interaction is to stuff enough dps in your group which limits build diversity. With no interaction from any particular player - just play a top dps build with the required supports.

This has always been the meta tho.Dungeons don't have timers....people still only wanted high dps.

I don't think you really know what you want. Many of the raids do have mechanics that you are asking for.Abd I haven't even seen all the raids.

Based on the first boss. Personally i'd say strike missions are absolute disastrous. It's not even close to something that could be an entry level raiding which was its purpose. I mean look at Cairn that is something i would consider entry level. Ice Construct is just faceroll. However that being said, it does hold potential for something else.

Given its practically solo'ble (to a certain extend), perhaps it would be a nice idea for ANet to make it rewarding repeatable solo endgame content instead. Similar to fracs or raids, but with the purpose of doing it alone. Without having the option where someone else could join/help you. This is something i have been wanting for years. Perhaps tone it down a little or increase the timer slightly, so that more people may have access to completing it. And for those that do seek a challenge, do the opposite with better rewards obviously.

Maybe ANet will increase the difficulty of the upcoming ones. Who knows kinda early to tell. But this is my thoughts on it, based on the first one we have atm.

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:

I don't find timers or AoE spam or unforgiving attacks that instagib you for one single mistake in the wrong second difficult in any way since there is no way for me to interact with them as a player.VS short timers: the only interaction is to stuff enough dps in your group which limits build diversity. With no interaction from any particular player - just play a top dps build with the required supports.VS AoE spam: just dodge the significant AoE's , sidestep as much as possible while staying close to your group and let your healers do the rest. Wowee, basically what we do in absolutely every other fight except that nowaday in many fights the amount of AoE's is so insane that sidestepping becomes irrelevant as well as long as you dodge that one AoE that'll ohko you.VS OHKO: lul just dodge, mistimed/out of endurance/immobilized/lag/whatever? lul ded l2p kek. There's a reason why almost every combo deck in hearthstone got nerfed at some point - because dying against something that you cannot prevent doesn't offer any interactivity and interactivity is the only difference between a game and a movie.

OHKO Attacks aren't generally terrible but they need to offer interactions of some sort and they should be rare.You have a dodge. There is your interaction so comparing this to hearthstone where you can't do anything because dodge doesn't exist and its round based is a really bad example.Running around finding the boss? Please no. OHKO is the only way to interact since otherwise you would just outheal and ignore like vg greens. What do you find difficult then? A failed mechanic should be punishing and incredible hard to recover from or sometimes impossible to recover from because there wouldnt be a point in having the mechanic otherwise.The timer prevents high heal stack cheese but most of the timers are so high that you can even run 4 healers in a 10man squad even with pug level dps. 3 healers is already complete faceroll.You are against ohko because they lack interaction? But really the opposite is the case. You don't interact at all with mechanics if they are not punishing and the strike boss waves should really do triple damage and the wave after 50% should instakill to even count as mechanic. I don't even have to run on top of a pillar for the big wave since i can outheal it on a full berserker glass build with my own heal. Thats how bad this is.

With the current strike in its current state, I do not see them as a good idea.I hope they prove me wrong, but there's nothing in the Icebrood Construct that couldn't be fulfilled as something else. It's extremely easy, and could have been a world boss. The strike itself could have been a fractal instead. Or it could have been a raid boss as part of a new wing.

The weird thing is that it's not hard enough right now to fit in with any of those. World bosses are harder. Event champions are more dangerous. Fractals (even T1) are harder. Raids are harder. Even open world events and story instances are harder.

I'm not sure who this strike was made for. It offers reward skins, but the drop rates are so low that it's not worth the time.

@Tulki.1458 said:With the current strike in its current state, I do not see them as a good idea.I hope they prove me wrong, but there's nothing in the Icebrood Construct that couldn't be fulfilled as something else. It's extremely easy, and could have been a world boss. The strike itself could have been a fractal instead. Or it could have been a raid boss as part of a new wing.

The weird thing is that it's not hard enough right now to fit in with any of those. World bosses are harder. Event champions are more dangerous. Fractals (even T1) are harder. Raids are harder.I'm not sure who this strike was made for.

Apparently the people in underleveled gear who play the game while watching TV.

The strike should've been Freezie level difficult...but maybe it'll progress well. We can hope.(Although to really do so, the game also needs to take time to explain or tell people of potentiol roles. Or the play how you want crowd will never consider adapting their build.