SPOILERS: Theory About the Commander — Guild Wars 2 Forums

SPOILERS: Theory About the Commander

After the final cutscene, Braham says to the Commander, "Commander... About what Jormag said. We're not gonna take it seriously, right?" The Commander then responds with "Right" if they are not Asura or Human. Asura or Human characters respond with "Uhm... Right."

Now the way the Commander says it is interesting as there's that tone of "I don't agree with you but I agree with you." This tone makes me think that it is possible in the future story for the Commander to keep 'fighting the good fight' or go rogue with Jormag. This in my opinion would make the story even more interesting as we've been depicted as the protagonist for the entirety of the game, except for when Palawa Joko pointed out that "The world will not forget you. The scars you've gouged into it spell out your name for all to see." Now with the potential 'go rogue with Jormag' route, it is entirely possible that it will be done in an attempt to save Ryland for Rytlock and Crecia. After the possible redemption for Ryland, another two paths could appear where the Commander did the rogue route as an undercover operation or actually become the antagonist for once.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

Comments

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    It's strange that they've adapted that last sentence depending on your race whereas they ignored to edit the raven's trials.
    It's well known that human and asura are weak against dragon! When you think about it, Asura fled Primordius. Humans were corrupted opposing not a lot resistance against Zhaithan. But now think of the others, Sylvaris tried to resist, Charrs try to exterminate the brand endlessly (sentinels) and about Norns, they launch assault against Jormag (ome can be influenced) and Icebrood camps regularly with lion's guard.

    I think the first race that fell is Norn because Jormag was in the region, it just had to whispers and corrupt the shamans to bring the others into hell. Through, I wasn't suspecting kodans to be that weak, their purity, their way of thinking.... It doesn't make sense imho. Humans and Asura can fell rapidly too simply by playing with strength, knowledge and defending your loved one. Technically, Sylvari are mordry minions so non-affected. Charrs can resist I think apart putting them under pressure or really brain washing them.

    This is just a theory. But would have put Norn in "Uhm... Right" Too.
    We are also tormented by the whispers, but you know, we are the invincible commander that never fail, even if it dies it will be resurrected because it's the hero.
    I think It can be a cool experience to see us becoming crazy/fading to Jormag and start attacking our allies without having any control with our keyboard. Seeing your character hurting your allies without being able of doing anything. Just end it by someone shoot you/throw you a rock on the head and after a blackout you're yourself...
    But against we are the hero, Jormag will be killed, Primordy too. DSD abandoned, the end.

    +++In creative mood. New Engie Elite spec' , Housing , New asuran expansion , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    +++NEW: AEP Asuran Expansion Project available on WIKI.
    +++New: GEM GW2 Exploration Map: Discover unusual places around tyria: Here (OSM map)

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It sounds like the Commander hasn't made up their mind about that yet, naturally, as we will have to wait and see how far you can trust Jormag's supposed benevolence. I'd say not very far, as she had all those people slaughtered - so much for "peace" and "helping Aurene".

  • Na the Commander is going to be the ruler of all races of Tyria no sense in defeating the Dragons and the remaining God's without a world domination goal

  • Odd, my female Asura 'Commander' just said 'Right'. I checked the chat, just to make sure.

  • If I were the commander I would love to have a chat with Jormag. Let's see what it has to offer.

  • I do see the Commander ending up a villain eventually, but not on purpose (or is falsely accused as one). I feel like there's been some buildup on that idea for a while; the way the Commander is currently being portrayed as some ultimate hero celebrity, the Joko incident, the whole Blood Legion fiasco and now Jormag, it all just screams to me that it's all gonna come crashing down, maybe in the Icebrood Saga or maybe in future story arcs. If this does happen, I agree that it'll really amp up the story for me. I love a good hero > villain plot.

    As for now though, while I don't think the Commander will end up siding with Jormag, the fact that the entire group looks pretty unsure of whether they should trust Jormag makes me think that there's gonna be some major inter-conflict that has the group split up, potentially leaving the Commander alone. I believe this is Jormag's plan because of the nature of its whispers; note that they don't just target the Commander's stress, but the stress created by their companions (IE, I recall some whispers going along the lines of, "always holding them together" and when Braham starts panicking at seeing his dead dad, "always picking up the pieces when he breaks". Not to mention the whole guilt-trip in the Raven's sanctum). And there's definitely exasperation in the Commander's voice whenever they're trying to get their teammates to calm down.
    I bet Jormag's doing this to get the Commander at their most vulnerable aka with no support from their friends and convert them/strike.

  • @bluecheeseplate.2753 said:
    I do see the Commander ending up a villain eventually, but not on purpose (or is falsely accused as one). I feel like there's been some buildup on that idea for a while; the way the Commander is currently being portrayed as some ultimate hero celebrity, the Joko incident, the whole Blood Legion fiasco and now Jormag, it all just screams to me that it's all gonna come crashing down, maybe in the Icebrood Saga or maybe in future story arcs. If this does happen, I agree that it'll really amp up the story for me. I love a good hero > villain plot.

    As for now though, while I don't think the Commander will end up siding with Jormag, the fact that the entire group looks pretty unsure of whether they should trust Jormag makes me think that there's gonna be some major inter-conflict that has the group split up, potentially leaving the Commander alone. I believe this is Jormag's plan because of the nature of its whispers; note that they don't just target the Commander's stress, but the stress created by their companions (IE, I recall some whispers going along the lines of, "always holding them together" and when Braham starts panicking at seeing his dead dad, "always picking up the pieces when he breaks". Not to mention the whole guilt-trip in the Raven's sanctum). And there's definitely exasperation in the Commander's voice whenever they're trying to get their teammates to calm down.
    I bet Jormag's doing this to get the Commander at their most vulnerable aka with no support from their friends and convert them/strike.

    I love this idea

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't see it.

    Joko was clearly just trashtalking. How can anyone take anything he said seriously? He knew by the time of PoF that killing EDs was bad? Wow, amazing, so did everyone else. It's easy to know better from hindsight.

    And why would our group, let alone the PC, ever consider listening to Jormag's "offers"? We know quite well what Jormag offers. If you forgot, revisit the Shiverpeaks. I don't assume he offered all those other icebrood and sons of svanir being a dumb puppet for the rest of their lives... Pretty sure he also had good arguments for them. However, the only thing he can deliver then is corruption. There is absolutely no indication he ever actually meant anything else.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    I think it will be more of an "the enemy of my enemy" situation. The new threat is real and Jormag will offer genuine help but will also attempt a double cross. The Commander will likely face many choices where there isn't a clear right answer. They may also alienate some of their allies and be called rogue. But I think we will ally with Jormag. This is going to put a lot of stress on the Commander as an "every person". They risk looking like an impossibly vapid hero.

    I wonder how Bangar Ruinbringer will respond to the Commander having 2 Elder dragons. Is Braham's bow powerful enough to deliver a killing blow to a weakened Jormag? An Elder dragon can not die without causing catastrophic or lethal damage to Tyria. The Commander can't kill Jormag but if the plot needs Jormag to die, I would put my money on Bangar doing the deed. Perhaps Jormag wanted to remove Braham's bow as a threat and whispered to Bangar to bring it to them. Jormag would get the bow and more soldiers. However when Bangar sees Jormag partner with the Commaner, he loses his mind and kills Jormag. We have to face the new threat without Jormag's helpand the world is collapsing. dun dun DUN!

    edit: Aurene will make it difficult for Jormag to lie to us about the new threat. It is likely she could verify the existence of the new threat. Seems to me that Jormag has to offer something of genuine value that can't be ignored.

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really hope it will not be a simple copy~pasta of heart of thorns, because that is how that episode1 is heading. Kill an important character? Check. Race related? Syl.... norns Check. Twist minds? Check. Use minions to speak? Check.

    I hope all the corrupted aren't simple puppet, but peoples who do that on purpose as free will after being tempted/charmed by Jormag.

    +++In creative mood. New Engie Elite spec' , Housing , New asuran expansion , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    +++NEW: AEP Asuran Expansion Project available on WIKI.
    +++New: GEM GW2 Exploration Map: Discover unusual places around tyria: Here (OSM map)

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluecheeseplate.2753 said:
    I do see the Commander ending up a villain eventually, but not on purpose (or is falsely accused as one). I feel like there's been some buildup on that idea for a while; the way the Commander is currently being portrayed as some ultimate hero celebrity, the Joko incident, the whole Blood Legion fiasco and now Jormag, it all just screams to me that it's all gonna come crashing down, maybe in the Icebrood Saga or maybe in future story arcs. If this does happen, I agree that it'll really amp up the story for me. I love a good hero > villain plot.

    As for now though, while I don't think the Commander will end up siding with Jormag, the fact that the entire group looks pretty unsure of whether they should trust Jormag makes me think that there's gonna be some major inter-conflict that has the group split up, potentially leaving the Commander alone. I believe this is Jormag's plan because of the nature of its whispers; note that they don't just target the Commander's stress, but the stress created by their companions (IE, I recall some whispers going along the lines of, "always holding them together" and when Braham starts panicking at seeing his dead dad, "always picking up the pieces when he breaks". Not to mention the whole guilt-trip in the Raven's sanctum). And there's definitely exasperation in the Commander's voice whenever they're trying to get their teammates to calm down.
    I bet Jormag's doing this to get the Commander at their most vulnerable aka with no support from their friends and convert them/strike.

    You are the first person to pluck this idea. I kind of like it and joko was ranting on about something as if he possibly even knew that something was coming or had possibly some knowing about the potential that something could come to the light as a result of the hero's actions of removing dragons from the world. I would actually rather like to see this go down.
    I also wonder if anet will reference joko again in that moment right before he got eaten.

    As far as Jormag goes we know what people can do in the real world with the power of manipulation and persuasion. If Jormag is truly a master of this and anet has a good writer and story director then i can see Jormag finding a way to get about anything he wants through angles most people wont be able to see till its far too late. Your foot is already in the bear trap by the time you realize you've walking on off the path.

    Up till this point i just thought the dragon wanted to give promises of power and protection, but it seems that it's persuasive range is far greater being able to zero in on past be it negative experiences (Braham / Jory) or emotional stress points and regrets (Rytlock and Cre) and even personal gain (Bangar).

    This is going to be a mess and that aspect of it pulls me in. Even though its shorter i find this episode a far more threatening and interesting than the first episode of season4.

    @hugo.4705 said:
    I hope all the corrupted aren't simple puppet, but peoples who do that on purpose as free will after being tempted/charmed by Jormag.

    This is honestly how see Jormag and how it sets what he is doing apart from Mordremoth.

    By this meaning i think it means that Sylvari may not even immune to possibly becoming icebrood or something very similar to some extent but rather than corruption it would be more akin to connection as Caithe experienced with Aurene by a choice of her own.
    Considering Jormag technically still leaves the choice up to the one he whispers to to what must be some extent i dont think its out of the realm of possibility.

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    @hugo.4705 said:
    It's strange that they've adapted that last sentence depending on your race whereas they ignored to edit the raven's trials.
    It's well known that human and asura are weak against dragon! When you think about it, Asura fled Primordius. Humans were corrupted opposing not a lot resistance against Zhaithan. But now think of the others, Sylvaris tried to resist, Charrs try to exterminate the brand endlessly (sentinels) and about Norns, they launch assault against Jormag but some can be influenced and Icebrood camps regularly with lion's guard.

    I think the first race that fell is Norn because Jormag was in the region, it just had to whispers and corrupt the shamans to bring the others into hell. Through, I wasn't suspecting kodans to be that weak, their purity, their way of thinking.... It doesn't make sense imho. Humans and Asura can fell rapidly too simply by playing with strength, knowledge and defending your loved one. Technically, Sylvari are mordry minions so non-affected. Charrs can resist I think apart putting them under pressure or really brain washing them.

    This is just a theory. But would have put Norn in "Uhm... Right" Too.
    We are also tormented by the whispers, but you know, we are the invincible commander that never fail, even if it dies it will be resurrected because it's the hero.
    I think It can be a cool experience to see us becoming crazy/fading to Jormag and start attacking our allies without having any control with our keyboard. Seeing your character hurting your allies without being able of doing anything. Just end it by someone shoot you/throw you a rock on the head and after a blackout you're yourself...
    But against we are the hero, Jormag will be killed, Primordy too. DSD abandoned, the end.

    Norn and Charr are literally some of the most susceptible races to Dragon corruption. The latter have now tried to harness an Elder Dragon willingly for power twice over now, and the former do launch assaults on the Icebrood, but also allow them in their cities and as Braham stated they dismissed them as fanatics.

    I'd think the god worshiping humans and Sylvari would have more resistance then anyone just due to their moral center, and even that isn't much more.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    Theres no such thing as "a race less suceptible to corruption" the Elder Dragons corrupts anyone they want, unless theres some 'barrier' blocking it like Krait blue orb.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Perihen the Thawk.9527Perihen the Thawk.9527 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    The only thing I can think is maybe they're trying to portray Humans and Asura as slightly more... I don't know what the word would be, "political"?

    Like, Norn and Charr commanders are stubborn and ready for a fight, Sylvari commanders were literally born with a Wyld Hunt to slay a dragon and have a more naive sense of chivalry, but Human and Asura commanders are hesitating, wondering if maybe there is a way to come to some "arrangement" that may not be ideal, but would result in relative peace where fewer people die, even if everyone complains about it?

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    Odd, my female Asura 'Commander' just said 'Right'. I checked the chat, just to make sure.

    Mine too. Tho, there seemed like there was a pause...like they werent entirely certain.

  • Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭✭

    There is an achievement for the commander to cave in and take a nap. I wonder if the commander is sub coming to Jormag.

  • @Digger.8659 said:
    After the final cutscene, Braham says to the Commander, "Commander... About what Jormag said. We're not gonna take it seriously, right?" The Commander then responds with "Right" if they are not Asura or Human. Asura or Human characters respond with "Uhm... Right."

    Now the way the Commander says it is interesting as there's that tone of "I don't agree with you but I agree with you." This tone makes me think that it is possible in the future story for the Commander to keep 'fighting the good fight' or go rogue with Jormag. This in my opinion would make the story even more interesting as we've been depicted as the protagonist for the entirety of the game, except for when Palawa Joko pointed out that "The world will not forget you. The scars you've gouged into it spell out your name for all to see." Now with the potential 'go rogue with Jormag' route, it is entirely possible that it will be done in an attempt to save Ryland for Rytlock and Crecia. After the possible redemption for Ryland, another two paths could appear where the Commander did the rogue route as an undercover operation or actually become the antagonist for once.

    Anyone have thoughts on this?

    I love this idea. But Anet's storytelling has been abysmal. My PC wouldn't be caught doing nearly as much, or saying as much, as they've had it do. Another chief concern is why we shouldn't just kill all of the Elder Dragons and be done with it. I keep seeing simulations, hearing and reading theories, drivel and dribble about nonsensical reasons why killing the Elders is a bad thing. Talk about convoluted storytelling! If I don't know why it's bad to kill the kitten things, it's no wonder my character doesn't either.

    I want to believe that the Commander has been an antagonist all along, so siding with Jormy would only make this detail more obvious to others. But let's be honest about this: I see no reason why joining Jormy would save Rytlock's whelp; I see no reason why it would help us prepare for pappa Steve's arrival; and I sure as hell see no reason why those mother kitten dragons on this mother kitten planetoid even matter to anyone or anything.

    Maybe I'll just emigrate to the Edge of the Mists.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @Digger.8659 said:
    After the final cutscene, Braham says to the Commander, "Commander... About what Jormag said. We're not gonna take it seriously, right?" The Commander then responds with "Right" if they are not Asura or Human. Asura or Human characters respond with "Uhm... Right."

    Now the way the Commander says it is interesting as there's that tone of "I don't agree with you but I agree with you." This tone makes me think that it is possible in the future story for the Commander to keep 'fighting the good fight' or go rogue with Jormag. This in my opinion would make the story even more interesting as we've been depicted as the protagonist for the entirety of the game, except for when Palawa Joko pointed out that "The world will not forget you. The scars you've gouged into it spell out your name for all to see." Now with the potential 'go rogue with Jormag' route, it is entirely possible that it will be done in an attempt to save Ryland for Rytlock and Crecia. After the possible redemption for Ryland, another two paths could appear where the Commander did the rogue route as an undercover operation or actually become the antagonist for once.

    Anyone have thoughts on this?

    I keep seeing simulations, hearing and reading theories, drivel and dribble about nonsensical reasons why killing the Elders is a bad thing. Talk about convoluted storytelling! If I don't know why it's bad to kill the kitten things, it's no wonder my character doesn't either.

    Well this what Ogden says in Hidden Arcana.

    Ogden Stonehealer: Too much magic, and the world spins out of control. Too little, and it crumbles into darkness.

    Too much magic, aka killing too many dragons equals the world spins out of control or as Taimi shows boom!

    Too little magic and it crumbles into Darkness.

  • @Stephen.6312 said:
    My PC wouldn't be caught doing nearly as much, or saying as much, as they've had it do.

    This is why I don't associate the characters I made up with the Pact Commander. Like it or not, while we design the look of the character, the story is on railroads.

    Another chief concern is why we shouldn't just kill all of the Elder Dragons and be done with it. I keep seeing simulations, hearing and reading theories, drivel and dribble about nonsensical reasons why killing the Elders is a bad thing. Talk about convoluted storytelling! If I don't know why it's bad to kill the kitten things, it's no wonder my character doesn't either.

    But, we do know why it's bad, so does our character. We've known why since Season 2. And all those "simulations, hearing and reading theories, drivel and dribble" is always just repeating the same thing again and again. I mean, it's pretty clear in the plot why it's bad - once a storyline, they repeat it, to tell people who skipped prior storylines.

    In Season 2 we were told explicitly: Imbalance The All, the world dies.

    In Season 3 we were told explicitly: Imbalance The All, the world dies.

    In Path of Fire we were told explicitly: Imbalance The All, the world dies.

    I mean, it's kind of clear.

    I want to believe that the Commander has been an antagonist all along,

    Except that since Day 1, ArenaNet has said that the PC is always going to be the hero, regardless of "choices" (which got slowly increasingly redacted, alas).

    But let's be honest about this: I see no reason why joining Jormy would save Rytlock's whelp; I see no reason why it would help us prepare for pappa Steve's arrival; and I sure as hell see no reason why those mother kitten dragons on this mother kitten planetoid even matter to anyone or anything.

    Well, except for the last bit, you're rather right.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stephen.6312 said:
    I love this idea. But Anet's storytelling has been abysmal. My PC wouldn't be caught doing nearly as much, or saying as much, as they've had it do. Another chief concern is why we shouldn't just kill all of the Elder Dragons and be done with it. I keep seeing simulations, hearing and reading theories, drivel and dribble about nonsensical reasons why killing the Elders is a bad thing. Talk about convoluted storytelling! If I don't know why it's bad to kill the kitten things, it's no wonder my character doesn't either.

    The gods themselfs droped the idea of killing the Elder Dragons.
    Also the vision that Eye of Janthir bring show world collapse after Balthazar armies killing Kralkatorrik.

    Basically even the "supernatural" entities are confirming this.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).