Expansion level content? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Expansion level content?

2

Comments

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020
    No, because were not getting new especs.

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    hence why the tengu have a city near LA.

    Is there any proof for this to be related to the Canthan politics?
    I remember Tengu being in Kryta before Factions was a thing.

    "In 1127 AE, Kisu's successor, Usoku, finished what the Ministry had started and annexed the vassal states of Kurzick and Luxon back into the empire, before beginning a campaign to drive out non-humans such as tengu and dredge. Against the might of the Canthan military, the tengu had no choice but to flee north, to Tyria and Elona. "

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Perihen the Thawk.9527Perihen the Thawk.9527 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    I'm not going to judge until the Season is over, for several reasons. But I will say that honestly, I think the maps themselves are turning out to be expansion-level.

    Set aside eilte specs and other features and such and just compare the now-complete Bjora Marches to Crystal Oasis and Verdant Brink, the first maps of their respective expansions (I'm taking the idea of Grothmar Valley as a prologue at face value, so we'll call Bjora the "first" map of the season). Honestly, I think it holds up pretty well.

    Compared to Crystal Oasis, I think it has a lot more happening event-wise, the metas are better than the Casino, it has more jumping puzzles, and the world building/storytelling is pretty comparable.

    On the other hand, Verdant Brink might edge it out event-wise, but I think it's definitely in the same league. The blizzard meta was a bit bland before, but now that the population is spread between the two metas it's actually much more engaging with fewer people. And Drakkar is definitely one of the better world bosses, even if it doesn't quite present the TT-level challenge people were hoping for. And storytelling/lore-wise I think Bjora is much better.

    If HoT was the "intense farmable map-meta" expansion and PoF was the "exploration" expansion, I think the Icebrood Saga so far is striking a good balance between the two. Which naturally maybe doesn't please people who wanted one or the other.

    Bjora Marches also has, in my opinion, better rewards in terms of armor/weapon skins than either of the others, at least through the collections (Verdant Brink wins for meta loot). And if you think of Strike Missions as part of the map, they seem to be a lot more popular than things like Adventures ever were.

    So map-wise, I honestly think this is expansion-level. Not every expansion map was mind-blowing, and I think Bjora Marches is, while not leading the pack, definitely a solid entry. We'll have to wait and see if Anet has any plans to produce other expansion-level features like e-specs or radically game-changing masteries like mounts/gliding. But map-wise, I think the Icebrood Saga so far is a step above the usual Living Story maps.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Donari.5237 said:
    the question is about the current content.

    Then the question remains meaningless for the same reasons: Not enough to judge it by.

    Nah, it just means that all the people saying "we shouldn't judge it yet" feel that what has been shown so far wasn't expansion level yet.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's too early to judge, we'll have to at lest wait till the next 2 chapters or so.
    Fornitnto be considered expansion level content IMO, we would need to have :
    -a new character selection screen and music, hot and pof had it.
    -a game play change, like gliders in hot and mounts in pof.
    -New specs, both expacs had them.
    -strikes would be the equivalent of pof bounties and hot raids I guess so that's covered.
    I'm okay with them doing this slowly during the chapters. But we've had a prologue and chapters 1 and 2 and the only expac level content are strikes so far. So I'm worried "expansion level" content was just a marketing tool to have people calm down because we don't have any planned expac and it's just a living world season.
    We'll have to wait and see

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, because were not getting new especs.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    What even IS expansion level content?

    I kinda feel like this is the most important aspect to consider.

    Most complaints about "not expansion level content" is about the lack of raids/fractals, updates to PvP and WvW, legendary gear, new type of PvE content, masteries, and elite specializations.

    But neither expansion actually provided fractals or raids (our first raid came out a full month after HoT). Same with legendary gear. Those two were always primarily Living World content types. PoF didn't update PvP or WvW either, while we're expecting such for Icebrood Saga in Q1 in theory. Icebrood Saga has provided new type of PvE content (Strikes) and masteries (while the current one's aren't the best things ever, neither were 90% of HoT's, and we're also 4x as many masteries per episode as S3 or S4). Thus, the only thing we're lacking from complaints, is elite specializations.

    We're 3 releases in, and I'd say we got half of an expansion's worth already, personally.

    I think this is off the mark or deliberately trying to tie expacs to smth they arent. It was a complain that expwcs didnt drop with fractals and raids not a feature ppl smth got the idea of.

    What makes expacs expacs is pmuch 2 things: 1 quantity: simply pu 4, 5 maps of story and event is almost a lw season on its own. 2 the features: 5 mounts for pof and gliding for hot, ghs and elite specs along with a new class.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, for some other reason.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    I'll judge after the Season/Saga is over.

    Keep in mind that the developers said that we are -already- getting expansion level content, saying that cooking at 500 and build templates are expansion level features. Even though the cooking update came before the Saga started.

    Answering the question regarding expansion-tier features:

    If you look at the history of what we’ve been doing, cooking 500 was another one of these things. Obviously, built-in gear templates are one of those things that we would want to consider in there.

    The real question on the topic: "What is expansion level content?" and would most likely have many many different answers depending on the player asked.

    Speaking for myself, I was very disappointed to hear that another expansion was not in the works. I didn't care for the core game, but I loved HoT and PoF. They both brought some real game-changers and a ton of content. There is no question I would have pre-ordered the next expansion plus whatever extras were offered, had there been one.

    Now you're telling me that some overpriced food buffs and an amateur-night cash grab is the new definition of "expansion-level" content? I really hope you're wrong about that. He is wrong about that, right, ANet? Please tell me you aren't going to leave build templates in this embarrassing state? That food buffs are not the best you can do after delivering features like mounts, gliders, and elite specializations? That releasing half of a map and about 10 minutes of story every couple of months isn't all this game has left to offer?

    You're better than this. Be better than this! Seriously, ANet. How is GW2 not a shining success story? There are so many amazing things about this game I couldn't begin to list them all. It's maddening that it seems to be in such decline. Is it just chronic mismanagement? A lack of commitment from up top? Why can't we do better?

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    What even IS expansion level content?

    I kinda feel like this is the most important aspect to consider.

    Most complaints about "not expansion level content" is about the lack of raids/fractals, updates to PvP and WvW, legendary gear, new type of PvE content, masteries, and elite specializations.

    But neither expansion actually provided fractals or raids (our first raid came out a full month after HoT). Same with legendary gear. Those two were always primarily Living World content types. PoF didn't update PvP or WvW either, while we're expecting such for Icebrood Saga in Q1 in theory. Icebrood Saga has provided new type of PvE content (Strikes) and masteries (while the current one's aren't the best things ever, neither were 90% of HoT's, and we're also 4x as many masteries per episode as S3 or S4). Thus, the only thing we're lacking from complaints, is elite specializations.

    We're 3 releases in, and I'd say we got half of an expansion's worth already, personally.

    I think this is off the mark or deliberately trying to tie expacs to smth they arent. It was a complain that expwcs didnt drop with fractals and raids not a feature ppl smth got the idea of.

    What makes expacs expacs is pmuch 2 things: 1 quantity: simply pu 4, 5 maps of story and event is almost a lw season on its own. 2 the features: 5 mounts for pof and gliding for hot, ghs and elite specs along with a new class.

    As you say, in the season we'll get the number of maps (and story). As for features, while masteries aren't something grand yet but they're nicely numerous and have the chance to improve, and we also got several features with Icebrood Saga: 500 Chef (to match Scribe's introduction with HoT), Build Loadouts, and dyable backpacks/capes.

    It is sad that they decided to so heavily monetize build loadouts (and falsely name them), but in all technicality they are features on par to what HoT and PoF added.

    New professions won't ever occur - Anet said they added revenant only to even out the profession numbers per class. At best, we'd get a new race but that seems highly unlikely given all the work that'd be needed.

    So, imo, the only thing we're truly missing would be a guild hall and elite specializations.

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Now you're telling me that some overpriced food buffs and an amateur-night cash grab is the new definition of "expansion-level" content?

    Because overpriced crafted decorations and new skinnable items to put up on gemstore are totally expansion level content while overpriced crafted food and a new monetized build feature aren't.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, because were not getting new especs.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    What even IS expansion level content?

    I kinda feel like this is the most important aspect to consider.

    Most complaints about "not expansion level content" is about the lack of raids/fractals, updates to PvP and WvW, legendary gear, new type of PvE content, masteries, and elite specializations.

    But neither expansion actually provided fractals or raids (our first raid came out a full month after HoT). Same with legendary gear. Those two were always primarily Living World content types. PoF didn't update PvP or WvW either, while we're expecting such for Icebrood Saga in Q1 in theory. Icebrood Saga has provided new type of PvE content (Strikes) and masteries (while the current one's aren't the best things ever, neither were 90% of HoT's, and we're also 4x as many masteries per episode as S3 or S4). Thus, the only thing we're lacking from complaints, is elite specializations.

    We're 3 releases in, and I'd say we got half of an expansion's worth already, personally.

    I think this is off the mark or deliberately trying to tie expacs to smth they arent. It was a complain that expwcs didnt drop with fractals and raids not a feature ppl smth got the idea of.

    What makes expacs expacs is pmuch 2 things: 1 quantity: simply pu 4, 5 maps of story and event is almost a lw season on its own. 2 the features: 5 mounts for pof and gliding for hot, ghs and elite specs along with a new class.

    As you say, in the season we'll get the number of maps (and story). As for features, while masteries aren't something grand yet but they're nicely numerous and have the chance to improve, and we also got several features with Icebrood Saga: 500 Chef (to match Scribe's introduction with HoT), Build Loadouts, and dyable backpacks/capes.

    It is sad that they decided to so heavily monetize build loadouts (and falsely name them), but in all technicality they are features on par to what HoT and PoF added.

    New professions won't ever occur - Anet said they added revenant only to even out the profession numbers per class. At best, we'd get a new race but that seems highly unlikely given all the work that'd be needed.

    So, imo, the only thing we're truly missing would be a guild hall and elite specializations.

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    Now you're telling me that some overpriced food buffs and an amateur-night cash grab is the new definition of "expansion-level" content?

    Because overpriced crafted decorations and new skinnable items to put up on gemstore are totally expansion level content while overpriced crafted food and a new monetized build feature aren't.

    I moreso meant that all the tings an expansion bring it bring in one update. Se5 will run over the course of a year and a jalf likely.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    @zealex.9410 said:
    I moreso meant that all the tings an expansion bring it bring in one update. Se5 will run over the course of a year and a jalf likely.

    Then your argument is "it isn't an expansion" not "it doesn't have expansion-like features/content".

    Those two are vastly different things, and ArenaNet isn't promising the former. They're promising expansion-like features and content over the course of Season 5. The release cadence should be the only difference when we're done.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Zok.4956Zok.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020
    No, for some other reason.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The real question on the topic: "What is expansion level content?" and would most likely have many many different answers depending on the player asked.

    We can look at what Anet itself defined in the past as expansion level content: It is the content that is included in the past expansions HoT and PoF, but it is not the content of Season 3 or Season 4.

    Anet last year also said, that build templates should be considered also expansion level content. Sure, why not. But it would be a very small part of all the items of an expansion and it would be fully included in that expansion, that you completely would buy with 30-80 bucks.

    But with the greedy F2P-monetization of the "build loadouts" they are not "expansion level", instead they are F2P-level. Because for the price of the full loadouts/slots for all my characters , I could (in the past) buy at least 5-10 expansions.

    https://www.gw2gh.com/ - A GW2-Guild-Hall.
    Register and check your guild leaderboard to see who is the best in your guild and who finished achievements first.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, because were not getting new especs.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    I moreso meant that all the tings an expansion bring it bring in one update. Se5 will run over the course of a year and a jalf likely.

    Then your argument is "it isn't an expansion" not "it doesn't have expansion-like features/content".

    Those two are vastly different things, and ArenaNet isn't promising the former. They're promising expansion-like features and content over the course of Season 5. The release cadence should be the only difference when we're done.

    My arguement is that a living word update doesnt have the quantity of content an expansion has a most of the features, (9 elite specs to none, 5 mounts to 2 and we might not even see a mount this season).

    You arguement was that ppl claimed lw aint expansion content because it hasnt had any raids or fractals so far, which honestly hasnt really been the case. It was always about the quantity and the elite specs.

  • @zealex.9410 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    I moreso meant that all the tings an expansion bring it bring in one update. Se5 will run over the course of a year and a jalf likely.

    Then your argument is "it isn't an expansion" not "it doesn't have expansion-like features/content".

    Those two are vastly different things, and ArenaNet isn't promising the former. They're promising expansion-like features and content over the course of Season 5. The release cadence should be the only difference when we're done.

    My arguement is that a living word update doesnt have the quantity of content an expansion has a most of the features, (9 elite specs to none, 5 mounts to 2 and we might not even see a mount this season).

    You arguement was that ppl claimed lw aint expansion content because it hasnt had any raids or fractals so far, which honestly hasnt really been the case. It was always about the quantity and the elite specs.

    That is the common argument I see on reddit, actually; that it isn't expansion-level content because there's no end-game content.

    And of course a single episode won't be a full expansion's worth. You cannot honestly expect such ever will be the case. And ArenaNet never even suggested such - it's like being told "we'll give you a full orange in slices" and you get such, but two slices in you complain "but you promised several full apples!"

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, because were not getting new especs.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    I moreso meant that all the tings an expansion bring it bring in one update. Se5 will run over the course of a year and a jalf likely.

    Then your argument is "it isn't an expansion" not "it doesn't have expansion-like features/content".

    Those two are vastly different things, and ArenaNet isn't promising the former. They're promising expansion-like features and content over the course of Season 5. The release cadence should be the only difference when we're done.

    My arguement is that a living word update doesnt have the quantity of content an expansion has a most of the features, (9 elite specs to none, 5 mounts to 2 and we might not even see a mount this season).

    You arguement was that ppl claimed lw aint expansion content because it hasnt had any raids or fractals so far, which honestly hasnt really been the case. It was always about the quantity and the elite specs.

    That is the common argument I see on reddit, actually; that it isn't expansion-level content because there's no end-game content.

    And of course a single episode won't be a full expansion's worth. You cannot honestly expect such ever will be the case. And ArenaNet never even suggested such - it's like being told "we'll give you a full orange in slices" and you get such, but two slices in you complain "but you promised several full apples!"

    I guess i was mostly looking on the forums then? What i saw being complained is that theres too little content and the content itself isnt all that amazing.

    Ofc a lw update wont have the quantity so then you should look at the features, so far the masteries dont hold a candle to the expansion ones, we havent seen elite specs and most features outside of those 2 only happened because anet could monetise them.

    And on the subject of raids a fractals, no they arent lw or expansion content but they did run before and right after expansions so ppl that liked such content still had them, we havent seen any new ones for months (none during se5 and wont likely see for a while)

  • Funny how some players are calling Strike Missions the equivalent to Raids. If that's the case, then for those that think Raids are expansion-like content, there you go.

    You see, it will never be agreed upon that this or that content is or is not expansion-like. Everyone has their own opinion, and few agree totally.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Nah, it just means that all the people saying "we shouldn't judge it yet" feel that what has been shown so far wasn't expansion level yet.

    Your spin also lacks value as a source for critique.

    The Commander will end you.

  • Hashberry.4510Hashberry.4510 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020
    No, because were not getting new especs.

    I imagine when jewel crafting is extended that will be considered expansion like as well. Lets face it, without some sort of illusion of progress, there is no butter left to scrape here.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    I moreso meant that all the tings an expansion bring it bring in one update. Se5 will run over the course of a year and a jalf likely.

    Then your argument is "it isn't an expansion" not "it doesn't have expansion-like features/content".

    Those two are vastly different things, and ArenaNet isn't promising the former. They're promising expansion-like features and content over the course of Season 5. The release cadence should be the only difference when we're done.

    My arguement is that a living word update doesnt have the quantity of content an expansion has a most of the features, (9 elite specs to none, 5 mounts to 2 and we might not even see a mount this season).

    You arguement was that ppl claimed lw aint expansion content because it hasnt had any raids or fractals so far, which honestly hasnt really been the case. It was always about the quantity and the elite specs.

    That is the common argument I see on reddit, actually; that it isn't expansion-level content because there's no end-game content.

    And of course a single episode won't be a full expansion's worth. You cannot honestly expect such ever will be the case. And ArenaNet never even suggested such - it's like being told "we'll give you a full orange in slices" and you get such, but two slices in you complain "but you promised several full apples!"

    I guess i was mostly looking on the forums then? What i saw being complained is that theres too little content and the content itself isnt all that amazing.

    Ofc a lw update wont have the quantity so then you should look at the features, so far the masteries dont hold a candle to the expansion ones, we havent seen elite specs and most features outside of those 2 only happened because anet could monetise them.

    And on the subject of raids a fractals, no they arent lw or expansion content but they did run before and right after expansions so ppl that liked such content still had them, we havent seen any new ones for months (none during se5 and wont likely see for a while)

    They've not monetized chef 500. Unless you're counting the two original garden plots, which would technically be demonetizing them to a degree. As to masteries, I would say the 13 we've gotten in the past two episodes are all far superior to every mastery in the Pact Commander, Legendary Crafting, Fractal Attunement, Exalted, Itzel, and Nuhoch mastery lines - in other words, better than 85% of HoT's masteries.

    Hell, I bet most people don't even remember those masteries exist.

    The only time raids came "around an expansion" was Spirit Vale. And of the 7 raid wings we have, 4 literally came with, or shortly after, a LW episode. So they are far more "LW content" than "expansion content". Even ignoring that, Strikes have been coming with every episode, and they're meant as a lead-in to raids, with the recent one being said to be nearly raid-boss levels from what I've heard from raiders.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Dreamy Lu.3865Dreamy Lu.3865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, for some other reason.

    To my eyes, what we got is even hardly a new LS episode. Main thing is, we have no new area. It's only a zone added to existing area Bjora Marches. It has several - for me - sad consequences:

    • No area completion (if already done before, it doesn't reset with new zone. We can complete additional pois and vistas, but without reward for that).
    • No new home node (because same area so same nodes).

    Beside, in term of content, there is again no JP (sorry, for me the lighting puzzles are no JPs), what I personally miss. Also I find the amount of possibilities to earn mastery points quite limited. It's doable of course, but it doesn't let much flexibility to favorize activities we like over those we don't.

    So, all in all, for me it's a global disappointment.

    Side note: I find the strike mission a lot harder than the meta.

    Leading Team of Equinox Solstice [TIME] / Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    WvW server: Henge of Denravi
    https://discord.gg/P5dj7fd
    Contact: Dreamy Lu.3865

  • @Dreamy Lu.3865 said:
    To my eyes, what we got is even hardly a new LS episode. Main thing is, we have no new area. It's only a zone added to existing area Bjora Marches. It has several - for me - sad consequences:

    • No area completion (if already done before, it doesn't reset with new zone. We can complete additional pois and vistas, but without reward for that).
    • No new home node (because same area so same nodes).

    Beside, in term of content, there is again no JP (sorry, for me the lighting puzzles are no JPs), what I personally miss. Also I find the amount of possibilities to earn mastery points quite limited. It's doable of course, but it doesn't let much flexibility to favorize activities we like over those we don't.

    So, all in all, for me it's a global disappointment.

    Side note: I find the strike mission a lot harder than the meta.

    There is a map completion reward for the new map. It's just a different kind of exploration.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chest_of_the_Bjora_Marches_Explorer

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I'm not really seeing it yet.

    I can't count strike missions because they really just feel like a new iteration of existing systems that have been watered down or reduced. We got Bounties with Path of Fire, and we lost those, seemingly raids and fractals - all in favor of a rotating weekly boss that offers no real incentives or rewards outside of map currency for a weapon set that many people may not even want! They can be fun, but I don't think they're worth coming back to beyond trying to get achievements. Bounties weren't overly fun either, but they were required for getting currency needed to make legendaries. They really aren't the same experience as fractals or raids though.

    Visions however have potential, but like they do with many systems they add into the game will likely abandon them. They're also kind of niche from what I can tell right now, but I'll wait and see it before I make a decision. I think out of anything I've seen so far these have the most potential to be expansion-worthy. Especially if they have rewards or benefits to other game modes, i.e. cosmetics/titles/minis/skins etc. If they ever decided to add another elite spec they could even make these as a way of obtaining hero points via achievements or bonus missions or something. Could also be a way to fill in some of the smaller parts of the open world map that aren't really large enough to warrant a standard map. They could explore stories that aren't as connected to the main plot, and could wind up being like fractals in the sense that you could choose particular stories to replay, Malyck, Ryland, Wizard's Tower, Joko, etc.

    They could also make Hall of Monuments similar to Sun's Refuge and allow players to obtain certain things within the visions to upgrade their Hall of Monuments instance. Granted that's similar to Sun's Refuge that we got during a living season, but if they find a way to make it relevant in more than just this season or beneficial in more game modes it could be cool. Say, adding rotating unlockable vendors that sell rare items like cosmetics, guild hall decorations, or unique food/utility buffs.

    I think people are just tired of having high hopes when they tease that they have something super special coming, and then that day comes and goes and we have a presentation about Funko Pops or living story episodes that deliver the same content as the previous season just split in half. Or the Boneskinner fiasco in which everyone was hyped up for it to wind up being an champ spawned by an escort that dies in three hits and has some pretty uninteresting mechanics to begin with. (The doppleganger in Elon Riverlands was WAY scarier to me.)

    Anyway, I'll stop. lol

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    They've not monetized chef 500. Unless you're counting the two original garden plots, which would technically be demonetizing them to a degree.

    It's the opposite - the whole cooking 500 revolves around the timegate in using garden plots which are a gemstore purchase. Yes, you get one for free, but to reach the full effectiveness, you need all 3 - and that means buying 2 of them. There was no such tie-in to a gemstore purchase for any of the previous level 500 crafting disciplines. There didn;t have to be any such connection for cooking - but they still decided to do it that way. Don't think that the whole system's core functionality being so strongly tied to a gemshop item was accidental. Sure, it might not have been as atrocious as in the case of build templates, but it was monetization nonetheless.

    As to masteries, I would say the 13 we've gotten in the past two episodes are all far superior to every mastery in the Pact Commander, Legendary Crafting, Fractal Attunement, Exalted, Itzel, and Nuhoch mastery lines - in other words, better than 85% of HoT's masteries.

    Hell, I bet most people don't even remember those masteries exist.

    People might not remember that Pact Commander or Fractal Attunement masteries exist, but they are still benefitting from them constantly. Each of those lines alone is vastly more useful than all the IBS ones together. I do agree on Exalted, Itzel and Nuhoh ones, though, as they weren;t exactly useful outside HoT, and a lot of mastery tiers in those lines were just used for a few very specific cases. Some of those could have been more useful if they were extended beyond HoT (seeing stealthed mobs, for example), but that never actually happened.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • No, because were not getting new especs.

    It is expansion level content, but it's path of fire content.

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    I will judge when it is over but if you just look at story content it is on track with every other season (6 episodes containing 5 instances each) and xpac, HoT was 4 act and 17 chapters, and PoF 3 acts 16 chapters. Map wise I I think it will be coming up short but I am fine with that. The addition of strikes, rumors of new fractals and a raid wing. Probably won't any elite specs and I'd rather they hold off on that until they get the current game balance under control. I believe that content wise it will be comparable to the xpacs but will it be the content that players were asking for?

  • keenedge.9675keenedge.9675 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't feel the new skills are worth pumping and using. Except the Raven mechanics.
    I have the masteries maxed, but filling it with 30 kills to get a random shot IF you get the right rock-paper-scissors combo is not worth keeping track of. Things die easily enough without it.

    Moral Statute Machine: John Spartan, you are fined five credits for repeated violations of the verbal morality statute.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, because were not getting new especs.

    No for several reasons but mostly because we still don't have any elite specs which are the backbone of expansions.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 16k hours, 27k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • Xenash.1245Xenash.1245 Member ✭✭✭
    No, for some other reason.

    It's really hard to say anything until it's over.

    Still hoping for a new guild halls with a more town/city like themes then what we've gotten so far, could really go a long way to making the roleplaying crowd happy.

  • No, because were not getting new especs.

    No elite specs = no expansion worthy content, for me.

    With every episode, we get all the same stuff. The only thing, that didn't appear, but is a part of previous two expansios, are elite specs.
    Like I said in my posts before - it's my main drive to complete the map, to do stuff, to play the game, to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. Nothing else.

    Hell, I don't care about the story that much anymore.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, for some other reason.

    an expansion pack adds something entirely new, the masteries are extremely map exclusive and beyond that we see nothing we could normally not do.
    it's still to early to judge but if they truly are trying to make expansion worthy LS content then i expect a elite spec in the future with something groundbreaking like gliders and mounds have done, it's that or a truly big xpac in the near future.

    the truth is harsh, my opinions are too.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    an expansion pack adds something entirely new, the masteries are extremely map exclusive and beyond that we see nothing we could normally not do.
    it's still to early to judge but if they truly are trying to make expansion worthy LS content then i expect a elite spec in the future with something groundbreaking like gliders and mounds have done, it's that or a truly big xpac in the near future.

    Visons of the past seem to be something entierly new so we might get it soonish.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The real question on the topic: "What is expansion level content?" and would most likely have many many different answers depending on the player asked.

    We can look at what Anet itself defined in the past as expansion level content: It is the content that is included in the past expansions HoT and PoF, but it is not the content of Season 3 or Season 4.

    Anet last year also said, that build templates should be considered also expansion level content. Sure, why not. But it would be a very small part of all the items of an expansion and it would be fully included in that expansion, that you completely would buy with 30-80 bucks.

    But with the greedy F2P-monetization of the "build loadouts" they are not "expansion level", instead they are F2P-level. Because for the price of the full loadouts/slots for all my characters , I could (in the past) buy at least 5-10 expansions.

    Wait ... WHY is it not the content of season 3 or 4 allowed 'in'? You're saying what Anet defines but I haven't seen anywhere Anet excluded that kind of content from expansions. Sounds like someone wanting to justify their opinion with their own twisted interpretation of "What Anet Says".

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Donari.5237 said:
    the question is about the current content.

    Then the question remains meaningless for the same reasons: Not enough to judge it by.

    Nah, it just means that all the people saying "we shouldn't judge it yet" feel that what has been shown so far wasn't expansion level yet.

    That's the same thing ... anyone that thinks they are going to see an expansions-amount of expansion level content in 3 episodes is being very unreasonable indeed.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • rrusse.7058rrusse.7058 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2020
    No, for some other reason.

    This isn't so simple as yes / no. It provides a level of expansion like content in the current iteration, however it is still missing some major components that would put it on "expansion" or paid box level of depth. There are two major things that the saga is going to need to really start putting it on the radar of those that are currently not playing the game. Not to say that what we have had is not good or not high quality enough, but that it does not bring in nearly as many new players which are the lifeblood of any online game. The two things this saga needs to really turn it into an "expansion" is a new starting point and another gameplay layer.

    Starting Points
    In MMOs this often comes in the form of new races, new professions and new starting regions for new players to begin their adventure. In the case of Guild Wars 2, this is likely going to have to come in the form of Elite Specializations. We might not have to add new starting zones or races for this game as much as others and the only reason I mention the need of a starting point is because this is a 7 year old game. It's intimidating getting started in a title like this if you are a true new player that knows nothing about the game and the world it inhabits.

    "How do I play?" "What kind of profession should I play?" " Are there roles I need or should fulfill?" "What is the endgame like?"

    Giving new players and veterans alike something new to start from and work towards functions as both new content as well as a welcome mat for new players.

    Gameplay Layer
    We found this in Heart of Thorns in the form of gliding, exploration and the Mastery System. Path of Fire we found this in mounts and a further expansion of the Mastery System. We need that same idea in the Icebrood Saga, something that adds another layer of depth or a brand new way for players to interact with the content we have. Arenanet continues to expand on the Mastery System as it usually does through Living World episodes, which is good and provides content and goals to work towards however, it is not another layer of depth nor is it a new way to play the game.

    Without a new hook for current, former and new players these new masteries are unlikely to draw anyone in that isn't already logging in regularly and playing.

    Bond with swift and clever Raven, a Spirit of the Wild, and use his blessing to open locks, pass through gates, and shield yourself with his light.
    Learn to collect the essences of resilience, valor, and vigilance, then target enemies’ weaknesses and hit them where it hurts.

    Even as a veteran player, there were several words, phrases and things presented here that I did not understand until I actually logged in and played. What is a Spirit of the Wild? Open locks and gates? To what? Shield myself from what? What is an essence exactly and why are they called resilience, valor and vigilance? Are these new stats, new gear? How am I targeting the enemies' weakness? What does any of this mean?

    When you actually start playing the content it's not so bad or confusing, but it is not exactly a hook for former or new players that are on the fence about dedicating time and money to this game of ours.

    So we need a new starting point for players that feeds into the current saga as well as a new gameplay layer that is either more depth to what we already know and love, or is a brand new thing we haven't seen before.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah.

    @rrusse.7058 said:
    This isn't so simple as yes / no. It provides a level of expansion like content in the current iteration, however it is still missing some major components that would put it on "expansion" or paid box level of depth. There are two major things that the saga is going to need to really start putting it on the radar of those that are currently not playing the game. Not to say that what we have had is not good or not high quality enough, but that it does not bring in nearly as many new players which are the lifeblood of any online game. The two things this saga needs to really turn it into an "expansion" is a new starting point and another gameplay layer.

    Starting Points
    In MMOs this often comes in the form of new races, new professions and new starting regions for new players to begin their adventure. In the case of Guild Wars 2, this is likely going to have to come in the form of Elite Specializations. We might not have to add new starting zones or races for this game as much as others and the only reason I mention the need of a starting point is because this is a 7 year old game. It's intimidating getting started in a title like this if you are a true new player that knows nothing about the game and the world it inhabits.

    "How do I play?" "What kind of profession should I play?" " Are there roles I need or should fulfill?" "What is the endgame like?"

    Giving new players and veterans alike something new to start from and work towards functions as both new content as well as a welcome mat for new players.

    Gameplay Layer
    We found this in Heart of Thorns in the form of gliding, exploration and the Mastery System. Path of Fire we found this in mounts and a further expansion of the Mastery System. We need that same idea in the Icebrood Saga, something that adds another layer of depth or a brand new way for players to interact with the content we have. Arenanet continues to expand on the Mastery System as it usually does through Living World episodes, which is good and provides content and goals to work towards however, it is not another layer of depth nor is it a new way to play the game.

    Without a new hook for current, former and new players these new masteries are unlikely to draw anyone in that isn't already logging in regularly and playing.

    Bond with swift and clever Raven, a Spirit of the Wild, and use his blessing to open locks, pass through gates, and shield yourself with his light.
    Learn to collect the essences of resilience, valor, and vigilance, then target enemies’ weaknesses and hit them where it hurts.

    Even as a veteran player, there were several words, phrases and things presented here that I did not understand until I actually logged in and played. What is a Spirit of the Wild? Open locks and gates? To what? Shield myself from what? What is an essence exactly and why are they called resilience, valor and vigilance? Are these new stats, new gear? How am I targeting the enemies' weakness? What does any of this mean?

    When you actually start playing the content it's not so bad or confusing, but it is not exactly a hook for former or new players that are on the fence about dedicating time and money to this game of ours.

    So we need a new starting point for players that feeds into the current saga as well as a new gameplay layer that is either more depth to what we already know and love, or is a brand new thing we haven't seen before.

    As a veteran player, how did you not know what a Spirit of the WIld is?
    I highly doubt the entire lore of one of the five playable races would slip by a veteran.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2020

    The Icebrood Saga has a starting point/region, just as Heart of Thorns did, and just as Path of Fire did. It starts a new story arc and takes place in a new region. So, I'm confused about that statement.
    As far as a 'tutorial' for either expansion or the Saga, we have core Tyria.
    Who knows what Masteries may bring us before the Saga is concluded? Could be more of the same, could be something game-changing.

  • rrusse.7058rrusse.7058 Member ✭✭✭
    No, for some other reason.

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    As a veteran player, how did you not know what a Spirit of the WIld is?
    I highly doubt the entire lore of one of the five playable races would slip by a veteran.

    Of all the points I brought up, this is the single one that you feel requires discussion and elaboration?

    Say it is clear to a veteran player what a Spirit of the Wild is. Great. Why exactly am I supposed to be excited about playing? Because it is a Spirit of the Wild? What does it even mean to bond with raven? The idea is unclear regardless if a player knows or does not know who or what Raven is.

    What is inherently exciting about this as a pitch to play the game? What about everything else that Arenanet presents as an advertising point? Opening gates and locks? Shield myself? Use essence?

    Does any of that make sense? Does any of it entice a player whether new or a veteran player to log in and start right away? I'd argue that a lot of it is too vague and/or requires a clear understanding of the game already to be interesting. They're all nice things, but this is not what draws people in. Not like gliding. Not like mounts.

    Gliding is very clear, interesting and exciting. I know what I am getting whether I am new or not. I can enjoy it regardless of how much I know about the game world.

    Mounts are offer a new, clear and interesting way of moving through the world. This too does not affect my experience whether I am new or an old player. It is fun no matter how involved I am in the game.

  • Zok.4956Zok.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    No, for some other reason.

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The real question on the topic: "What is expansion level content?" and would most likely have many many different answers depending on the player asked.

    We can look at what Anet itself defined in the past as expansion level content: It is the content that is included in the past expansions HoT and PoF, but it is not the content of Season 3 or Season 4.

    Anet last year also said, that build templates should be considered also expansion level content. Sure, why not. But it would be a very small part of all the items of an expansion and it would be fully included in that expansion, that you completely would buy with 30-80 bucks.

    But with the greedy F2P-monetization of the "build loadouts" they are not "expansion level", instead they are F2P-level. Because for the price of the full loadouts/slots for all my characters , I could (in the past) buy at least 5-10 expansions.

    Wait ... WHY is it not the content of season 3 or 4 allowed 'in'? You're saying what Anet defines but I haven't seen anywhere Anet excluded that kind of content from expansions.

    It has nothing to do with what is allowed and what not, or if content of a season is not also allowed in an expansion. I was just stating the obvious.

    HoT and PoF are expansions. Season 3 and Season 4 are not expansions, they are seasons (before/after expansions).

    So, if you want to look at what "expansion level" could mean, look at all the content/things that Anet in the past already included in an expansion.

    If Anet wants to include "expansion level" content and also "season level" content in the Saga (Season 5), that would be fine by me, but that was not the original question.

    https://www.gw2gh.com/ - A GW2-Guild-Hall.
    Register and check your guild leaderboard to see who is the best in your guild and who finished achievements first.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well if they keep adding raven gates to future maps then the mastery would be useful in the future. Like with those spring mushrooms.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @coso.9173 said:
    Well if they keep adding raven gates to future maps then the mastery would be useful in the future. Like with those spring mushrooms.

    For it to truly reach the level of iconic expansion masteries, they'd have to retroactively add them to core maps as well. Which we all know is not going to happen.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @coso.9173 said:
    Well if they keep adding raven gates to future maps then the mastery would be useful in the future. Like with those spring mushrooms.

    For it to truly reach the level of iconic expansion masteries, they'd have to retroactively add them to core maps as well. Which we all know is not going to happen.

    The didn't do that with the mushrooms and still they're used often as an example of a good mastery till today.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2020

    @coso.9173 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @coso.9173 said:
    Well if they keep adding raven gates to future maps then the mastery would be useful in the future. Like with those spring mushrooms.

    For it to truly reach the level of iconic expansion masteries, they'd have to retroactively add them to core maps as well. Which we all know is not going to happen.

    The didn't do that with the mushrooms and still they're used often as an example of a good mastery till today.

    They are, but only as a secondary mastery for HoT. The primary one being gliding. For raven portals to be a good mastery, they'd not only need to be used in future episodes, but also would need to play a second fiddle to some primary mastery of comparable usefulness as gliding or mounts. Or they'd need to be useful everywhere, including core and past expansions.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah.

    I voted yes simply because there is not an option for "I don't knoe yet." We have a prolugue and two episodes and no way of knowing how many episodes will make up a saga. There is, in fact, not enough information to answer this question yet.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2020

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The real question on the topic: "What is expansion level content?" and would most likely have many many different answers depending on the player asked.

    We can look at what Anet itself defined in the past as expansion level content: It is the content that is included in the past expansions HoT and PoF, but it is not the content of Season 3 or Season 4.

    Anet last year also said, that build templates should be considered also expansion level content. Sure, why not. But it would be a very small part of all the items of an expansion and it would be fully included in that expansion, that you completely would buy with 30-80 bucks.

    But with the greedy F2P-monetization of the "build loadouts" they are not "expansion level", instead they are F2P-level. Because for the price of the full loadouts/slots for all my characters , I could (in the past) buy at least 5-10 expansions.

    Wait ... WHY is it not the content of season 3 or 4 allowed 'in'? You're saying what Anet defines but I haven't seen anywhere Anet excluded that kind of content from expansions.

    It has nothing to do with what is allowed and what not, or if content of a season is not also allowed in an expansion. I was just stating the obvious.

    HoT and PoF are expansions. Season 3 and Season 4 are not expansions, they are seasons (before/after expansions).

    So, if you want to look at what "expansion level" could mean, look at all the content/things that Anet in the past already included in an expansion.

    If Anet wants to include "expansion level" content and also "season level" content in the Saga (Season 5), that would be fine by me, but that was not the original question.

    Hold on here. The question is WHAT is expansion level content and your answer is that Anet defined it as what was in expansions and NOT what was in seasonal content. I'm asking you how you come to that conclusion when Anet has never said what was in seasonal content can't be in expansions.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah.

    @Xenon.4537 said:
    No, because no elite specs, no new "mount-esque" features, maps are on par with living world, story is extremely short, reward structures are bad, etc.

    On reward structures: The boreal weapons are fine. There's a nice progression involving new map currency and crafting resources. The final skins look alright. Good stuff. But the new armor? Are you kidding? Why abandon the systems you developed for elegy and mist armors? They weren't perfect, but your solution is to go all the way back to pure RNG? Really? And what if you don't like the boreal weapons? There's really nothing else to go for. I hope you enjoy emotes.

    The only redeeming quality is that the story is decent. Short, but interesting. I feel like I'm watching a mini-series. I'm ready for the full show. Come on.

    The new strike mission is much closer to a raid boss than previous strike missions. If this escalation continues (and I hope it doesn't because I think that it will cause strike missions to fail) then the combination of all the strike missions together would be like an easier raid, which is expansion level content, as raids came out as part of the HoT expansion.

    People hear expansion level content and they think, automatically that it can only really be something like gliding, mounts or elite specs. Bounties were bosses added in an expansion too that didn't exist before that expansion. WHy are ten man versions of bounties in an instance not considered expansion level content?

  • Zok.4956Zok.4956 Member ✭✭✭
    No, for some other reason.

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The real question on the topic: "What is expansion level content?" and would most likely have many many different answers depending on the player asked.

    We can look at what Anet itself defined in the past as expansion level content: It is the content that is included in the past expansions HoT and PoF, but it is not the content of Season 3 or Season 4.

    Anet last year also said, that build templates should be considered also expansion level content. Sure, why not. But it would be a very small part of all the items of an expansion and it would be fully included in that expansion, that you completely would buy with 30-80 bucks.

    But with the greedy F2P-monetization of the "build loadouts" they are not "expansion level", instead they are F2P-level. Because for the price of the full loadouts/slots for all my characters , I could (in the past) buy at least 5-10 expansions.

    Wait ... WHY is it not the content of season 3 or 4 allowed 'in'? You're saying what Anet defines but I haven't seen anywhere Anet excluded that kind of content from expansions.

    It has nothing to do with what is allowed and what not, or if content of a season is not also allowed in an expansion. I was just stating the obvious.

    HoT and PoF are expansions. Season 3 and Season 4 are not expansions, they are seasons (before/after expansions).

    So, if you want to look at what "expansion level" could mean, look at all the content/things that Anet in the past already included in an expansion.

    If Anet wants to include "expansion level" content and also "season level" content in the Saga (Season 5), that would be fine by me, but that was not the original question.

    Hold on here. The question is WHAT is expansion level content and your answer is that Anet defined it as what was in expansions and NOT what was in seasonal content. I'm asking you how you come to that conclusion when Anet has never said what was in seasonal content can't be in expansions.

    The content that is included in the two existing expansions equals to "expansion level". If it would not be "expansion level", it would not be included already in expansions.

    https://www.gw2gh.com/ - A GW2-Guild-Hall.
    Register and check your guild leaderboard to see who is the best in your guild and who finished achievements first.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:
    They are, but only as a secondary mastery for HoT. The primary one being gliding. For raven portals to be a good mastery, they'd not only need to be used in future episodes, but also would need to play a second fiddle to some primary mastery of comparable usefulness as gliding or mounts. Or they'd need to be useful everywhere, including core and past expansions.

    I just want to comment on this - the problem with masteries, to me, is that the bulk of them are not useful except for one map. Every one of those, from Itzel to Exalted to whatever those single ones were leading up to PoF, are ones I do not care about at all. I have to think they were cool toys at the time, but coming in late they are way too brief to be worth getting. The uselessness of these masteries have soured me on the idea of new masteries in new maps. I'm not excited about catching up to Icebrood because: oh look, more one-off masteries. I just want to use my own skills to do things, I don't want a weird time-gated semi-grind that won't be useful past the one map to proceed with the story.

    However, all that said:
    1. the fact that they finally are including HoT with the purchase of PoF makes me hope they are thinking about incorporating old masteries into new maps as well now that they don't have to be content separated.
    2. the fact they've acknowledged content needs to be designed for replayability and not just one-offs makes me hope they will incorporate more past masteries into new content.

    I know people who love new masteries no matter what they are. They feel like the masteries are a good substitute "progression" path to having to get new gear and new levels. It's all subjective.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2020

    @LowestTruth.2635 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    They are, but only as a secondary mastery for HoT. The primary one being gliding. For raven portals to be a good mastery, they'd not only need to be used in future episodes, but also would need to play a second fiddle to some primary mastery of comparable usefulness as gliding or mounts. Or they'd need to be useful everywhere, including core and past expansions.

    I just want to comment on this - the problem with masteries, to me, is that the bulk of them are not useful except for one map. Every one of those, from Itzel to Exalted to whatever those single ones were leading up to PoF, are ones I do not care about at all. I have to think they were cool toys at the time, but coming in late they are way too brief to be worth getting. The uselessness of these masteries have soured me on the idea of new masteries in new maps. I'm not excited about catching up to Icebrood because: oh look, more one-off masteries. I just want to use my own skills to do things, I don't want a weird time-gated semi-grind that won't be useful past the one map to proceed with the story.

    However, all that said:
    1. the fact that they finally are including HoT with the purchase of PoF makes me hope they are thinking about incorporating old masteries into new maps as well now that they don't have to be content separated.
    2. the fact they've acknowledged content needs to be designed for replayability and not just one-offs makes me hope they will incorporate more past masteries into new content.

    I know people who love new masteries no matter what they are. They feel like the masteries are a good substitute "progression" path to having to get new gear and new levels. It's all subjective.

    But, they've already done that. Bouncing Mushroom, Ley-lines for Gliding, Adrenal Mushrooms, Roller Beetle walls, Updrafts, etc. All found in maps other than the original(s).

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Super Hayes.6890 said:
    I voted yes simply because there is not an option for "I don't knoe yet." We have a prolugue and two episodes and no way of knowing how many episodes will make up a saga. There is, in fact, not enough information to answer this question yet.

    Saying that "there's not enough information to answer that question yet" is basically the same as admitting that so far this Saga did not, in fact, supplied any expansion level content. Because if it did supply any, then we would have had enough information to answer OP's question.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • rrusse.7058rrusse.7058 Member ✭✭✭
    No, for some other reason.

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

    But, they've already done that. Bouncing Mushroom, Ley-lines for Gliding, Adrenal Mushrooms, Roller Beetle walls, Updrafts, etc. All found in maps other than the original(s).

    They have been doing a better job with this. I am always pleasantly surprised when I find a new bouncing mushroom or updraft. Even though so many players already have access to mounts they continue to consider those that do not yet have them.

    There are still so many masteries that do not see use or purpose outside of the maps that they are found on though. Arenanet is stuck between a rock and a hard place on this. What if we want to include something like essence manipulation for episodes 3 and 4? What about the players that start after these episodes are out and do not have access to 1 and 2?

    What about essence manipulation after the Icebrood Saga is finished? Will we have a function or purpose for it? What about those that don't have Icebrood Saga and we ask players to use such skills in expansion 3?

    A lot of time, energy and effort is put into systems that are used for a few months and never touched again and it's a shame.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2020

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Zok.4956 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The real question on the topic: "What is expansion level content?" and would most likely have many many different answers depending on the player asked.

    We can look at what Anet itself defined in the past as expansion level content: It is the content that is included in the past expansions HoT and PoF, but it is not the content of Season 3 or Season 4.

    Anet last year also said, that build templates should be considered also expansion level content. Sure, why not. But it would be a very small part of all the items of an expansion and it would be fully included in that expansion, that you completely would buy with 30-80 bucks.

    But with the greedy F2P-monetization of the "build loadouts" they are not "expansion level", instead they are F2P-level. Because for the price of the full loadouts/slots for all my characters , I could (in the past) buy at least 5-10 expansions.

    Wait ... WHY is it not the content of season 3 or 4 allowed 'in'? You're saying what Anet defines but I haven't seen anywhere Anet excluded that kind of content from expansions.

    It has nothing to do with what is allowed and what not, or if content of a season is not also allowed in an expansion. I was just stating the obvious.

    HoT and PoF are expansions. Season 3 and Season 4 are not expansions, they are seasons (before/after expansions).

    So, if you want to look at what "expansion level" could mean, look at all the content/things that Anet in the past already included in an expansion.

    If Anet wants to include "expansion level" content and also "season level" content in the Saga (Season 5), that would be fine by me, but that was not the original question.

    Hold on here. The question is WHAT is expansion level content and your answer is that Anet defined it as what was in expansions and NOT what was in seasonal content. I'm asking you how you come to that conclusion when Anet has never said what was in seasonal content can't be in expansions.

    The content that is included in the two existing expansions equals to "expansion level".

    OK so .. content is expansions is expansion-level content .. that goes without saying.

    If it (you mean content yes?) would not be "expansion level", it would not be included already in expansions.

    No that's not true. There isn't some finite amount of expansion-level content that Anet has already exhausted with the last two expansions. They could literally invent whatever content they want, completely unrestricted by what they did in the past, and include it in a future expansion ... IF they were to release one.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Neural.1824Neural.1824 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, the new maps arent expac-level

    "Expansion level content" is nothing more than "business as usual" marketing gimmickry.

    There is no point of reference for what is defined as an "expansion". A GW2 expansion? An expansion by the standard of a given subset of MMO's? An expansion on the level of the gaming industry in general?
    The word "expansion" is most often associated in games with a game update that has large amounts of new content (i.e. HoT, PoF).
    "Level" is another part of the problem here. When coupled with "expansion", it leaves it completely open to whether or not "expansion level" means the quantity of content and/or the quality of the content.
    They could have internal standards of production that are higher in some aspect for content that was put into HoT/PoF than for older Living World content. If content is judged as "expansion level" in that regard, because it passed certain internal QC checks, they could do something as simple as put in a new chair and call it "expansion level content" and claim they delivered.

    Soul-binding needs to be allowed to die gracefully. It has expired. It is long past it's time to become a footnote in the history of gaming.