Warrior Balance Requests Omnibus

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Just some random stuff I put together for Arms cause I was bored. Gonna leave em here

Reworked Arms

Minor Adept: Furious Burst-Bursts grant Fury

—Major Adept 1: Wounding Precision-Gain Precision based on your power (15%). A percentage of the precision is converted to expertise (20%)

—Major Adept 2: Signet Mastery-same but instead of lesser Signet of Might, cast lesser Signet of Fury (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 adrenaline) (25 seconds)

—Major Adept 3: Opportunist-Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable foes (5%)

Minor Master: Deep Strikes-Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+100 Condi dmg)

—Major Master 1: Blademaster-same

—Major Master 2: Unsuspecting Foe-same

—Major Master 3: Sundering Burst-Burst skills inflict Vulnerability. Your Vulnerability lasts longer (5%)

Minor Grandmaster:"Bloodthirsty"-A portion of the damage of your critical strikes heals you (10%)

—Major Grandmaster 1: Furious-Critical hits grant a stacking condition damage effect (+10 condi dmg, max 25 stacks). Reduce incoming condition damage by 0.2% per stack (5% at max capacity)

—Major Grandmaster 2: "Burst Supremacy"- Burst skills have an increased critical-hit chance (50%) and grant 5 stacks of Unblockable (25 seconds)

—Major Grandmaster 3: "Crisis"-While below the Health Threshold (75%), attack speed increases (15%) and you gain Alacrity (5 seconds every 20 seconds)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@"Grand Marshal.4098" said:Just some random stuff I put together for Arms cause I was bored. Gonna leave em here

Reworked Arms

Minor Adept: Furious Burst-Bursts grant FurySame as current. Not a bad minor so okay.—Major Adept 1: Wounding Precision-Gain Precision based on your power (15%). A percentage of the precision is converted to expertise (20%)Interesting. Those conversions are a lot higher than the current ratios, so probably wouldn't happen.I think that precision based on power is interesting, but for an Adept it would have to be 7%.Since this is the condi tree I'd like to see this trait inflict something like torment on critical in addition to the expertise gain.

—Major Adept 2: Signet Mastery-same but instead of lesser Signet of Might, cast lesser Signet of Fury (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 adrenaline) (25 seconds)This trait always bothered me since it gave ferocity instead of precision or condition given the tree it is in. Lesser Signet of Fury as you stated is more thematic for the tree.5s on those state increases correct?—Major Adept 3: Opportunist-Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable foes (5%)I think 0.5% per stack would be better. Gives Rifle a bit of a boost.Minor Master: Deep Strikes-Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+100 Condi dmg)This I like. It would make Arms a great adrenaline gain line. Keep the +180 condi damage while under the effects of fury though.—Major Master 1: Blademaster-same

—Major Master 2: Unsuspecting Foe-sameThere is an opportunity to apply confusion on hitting a CC'd foes, something that warrior had before but was implemented poorly.—Major Master 3: Sundering Burst-Burst skills inflict Vulnerability. Your Vulnerability lasts longer (5%)So the same as current but with 5% more vulnerability duration?Minor Grandmaster:"Bloodthirsty"-A portion of the damage of your critical strikes heals you (10%)Where would you put the 33% chance to bleed on crit? That should go somewhere I think.—Major Grandmaster 1: Furious-Critical hits grant a stacking condition damage effect (+10 condi dmg, max 25 stacks). Reduce incoming condition damage by 0.2% per stack (5% at max capacity)Mmmm.... The current adrenaline gain on Furious is pretty great and I don't want it to go away even with your proposal to Deep Strike. I'd prefer the current Furious over this personally.—Major Grandmaster 2: "Burst Supremacy"- Burst skills have an increased critical-hit chance (50%) and grant 5 stacks of Unblockable (25 seconds)Why not just keep the current 100% chance and just add on an extra rider? Also those 25s of unblockable are way out there in duration.How about:Burst skills have 100% chance to crit.Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks per bar adrenaline spent of Unblockable (5s).

This means that your bursts have 100% crit chance as current, and are unblockable in addition to a few followup attacks, or some multiple hit burst hits.

—Major Grandmaster 3: "Crisis"-While below the Health Threshold (75%), attack speed increases (15%) and you gain Alacrity (5 seconds every 20 seconds)Hmm... Make it instead so that you gain quickness and alacrity when struck below 75% for 5s with a 20s CD.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"Grand Marshal.4098" said:Just some random stuff I put together for Arms cause I was bored. Gonna leave em here

Reworked Arms

Minor Adept: Furious Burst-Bursts grant Fury

Same as current. Not a bad minor so okay.I don't expect a lot from a Minor Adept and given how Burst spam is promoted, I think it's ok as is. (Unless if we say that Fury application A)applies might on it's own application B ) Strips Might from the enemy (overkill))—Major Adept 1: Wounding Precision-Gain Precision based on your power (15%). A percentage of the precision is converted to expertise (20%)Interesting. Those conversions are a lot higher than the current ratios, so probably wouldn't happen.I think that precision based on power is interesting, but for an Adept it would have to be 7%.Since this is the condi tree I'd like to see this trait inflict something like torment on critical in addition to the expertise gain.Yeah, the only numbers I didn't rly check. I thought, for a condi line that adds some precision as well, so if out of 1k power you get 150 precision, convert 30 of that into expertise. Maybe it should follow Blood Reaction as you said.

—Major Adept 2: Signet Mastery-same but instead of lesser Signet of Might, cast lesser Signet of Fury (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 adrenaline) (25 seconds)This trait always bothered me since it gave ferocity instead of precision or condition given the tree it is in. Lesser Signet of Fury as you stated is more thematic for the tree.5s on those state increases correct?I'd imagine it would be enough, yes. I also had the idea of a different lesser signet activating according to some parameter, but it was too much thought and would probably end up to strong (for example: lesser signet of fury for foe below heath threshold, lesser healing sig when below 25% health, lesser dolly sig when stunned, lesser endurance sig when you get 5 condis etc). With a rather big CD on all those, but again, too strong even for weaker singets.—Major Adept 3: Opportunist-Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable foes (5%)I think 0.5% per stack would be better. Gives Rifle a bit of a boost.Even better!

Minor Master: Deep Strikes-Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+100 Condi dmg)

This I like. It would make Arms a great adrenaline gain line. Keep the +180 condi damage while under the effects of fury though.Didn't want to make Fury too strong with the original condi buff, hence the decrease. But if you believe we can keep it I'm in.—Major Master 1: Blademaster-same

—Major Master 2: Unsuspecting Foe-sameThere is an opportunity to apply confusion on hitting a CC'd foes, something that warrior had before but was implemented poorly.Dammnit I'm not very creatuve with condi. I'd like to give poison to Blademaster somehow, or weakness. Which would ideally go well with Cull The Weak.As for Unsuspecting Foe, how about giving it the 33% chance to bleed on strikes? Does that take away from the overall condition potential?—Major Master 3: Sundering Burst-Burst skills inflict Vulnerability. Your Vulnerability lasts longer (5%)So the same as current but with 5% more vulnerability duration?I figured that if this were to synergize with Opportunist, this would be enough. Axe MH, GS aa, Rifle and OH Dagger inflict decent vulnerability already (OH Mace too, but that's hardly used in competetive). Perhaps it would be the same if we kept it with extra vulnerability on critical hit, but I think warrior needs a bit larger of attack window.

Minor Grandmaster:"Bloodthirsty"-A portion of the damage of your critical strikes heals you (10%)

Where would you put the 33% chance to bleed on crit? That should go somewhere I think.Maybe on a Major Master, as I said above? We could slap it in the Minor GM, but I'm cautious of it offerring too much. Was even considering Singet Mastery for GM tbh.—Major Grandmaster 1: Furious-Critical hits grant a stacking condition damage effect (+10 condi dmg, max 25 stacks). Reduce incoming condition damage by 0.2% per stack (5% at max capacity)Mmmm.... The current adrenaline gain on Furious is pretty great and I don't want it to go away even with your proposal to Deep Strike. I'd prefer the current Furious over this personally.I suppose +1 adrenaline shouldn't be very broken in the current meta.—Major Grandmaster 2: "Burst Supremacy"- Burst skills have an increased critical-hit chance (50%) and grant 5 stacks of Unblockable (25 seconds)Why not just keep the current 100% chance and just add on an extra rider? Also those 25s of unblockable are way out there in duration.How about:Burst skills have 100% chance to crit.Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks per bar adrenaline spent of Unblockable (5s).

This means that your bursts have 100% crit chance as current, and are unblockable in addition to a few followup attacks, or some multiple hit burst hits.This sounds more practical. A T3 Burst granting some unblockables aye. What an excellent counter to guardians and their focus 5. And since it's based on consumed adrenaline and not landing the burst, there is some good tactics we can use. Would you count entering Berserk Mode as such an instance? It would be cool to pop Berserk (basically consuming adrenaline to convert it to 10 Rage) and have our first burst be unblockable if traited.

—Major Grandmaster 3: "Crisis"-While below the Health Threshold (75%), attack speed increases (15%) and you gain Alacrity (5 seconds every 20 seconds)Hmm... Make it instead so that you gain quickness and alacrity when struck below 75% for 5s with a 20s CD.

Don't you think that quickness overlaps too much with Heightened Focus? Maybe maintaining a flat increase in attack speed is better?

P.S. I separated this into Condi (upper) line, Ferocity/Power dmg (middle) and a more general quality of life (lower) paths. But I'm still confident that the condi path can and should have, slow, confusion, torment and weakness applications. Perhaps getting rid of Blademaster or overhauling it entirely to fit these condis.

Edit: Was thinking of popping a "inflicting vulnerability heals you" just like you write in the main post. But would it actually be beneficial? Would it be too much to have 2 ways to heal in this specialization? Is our vulnerabilityy coverage enough to heal us? (There is also the option "For every 5 stacks of vulnerability you inflict gain a boon (vigor, or might for some strength synergy?)"

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:Just some random stuff I put together for Arms cause I was bored. Gonna leave em here

Reworked Arms

Minor Adept: Furious Burst-Bursts grant Fury

Same as current. Not a bad minor so okay.I don't expect a lot from a Minor Adept and given how Burst spam is promoted, I think it's ok as is. (Unless if we say that Fury application A)applies might on it's own application B ) Strips Might from the enemy (overkill))—Major Adept 1: Wounding Precision-Gain Precision based on your power (15%). A percentage of the precision is converted to expertise (20%)Interesting. Those conversions are a lot higher than the current ratios, so probably wouldn't happen.I think that precision based on power is interesting, but for an Adept it would have to be 7%.Since this is the condi tree I'd like to see this trait inflict something like torment on critical in addition to the expertise gain.Yeah, the only numbers I didn't rly check. I thought, for a condi line that adds some precision as well, so if out of 1k power you get 150 precision, convert 30 of that into expertise. Maybe it should follow Blood Reaction as you said.

—Major Adept 2: Signet Mastery-same but instead of lesser Signet of Might, cast lesser Signet of Fury (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 adrenaline) (25 seconds)This trait always bothered me since it gave ferocity instead of precision or condition given the tree it is in. Lesser Signet of Fury as you stated is more thematic for the tree.5s on those state increases correct?I'd imagine it would be enough, yes. I also had the idea of a different lesser signet activating according to some parameter, but it was too much thought and would probably end up to strong (for example: lesser signet of fury for foe below heath threshold, lesser healing sig when below 25% health, lesser dolly sig when stunned, lesser endurance sig when you get 5 condis etc). With a rather big CD on all those, but again, too strong even for weaker singets.—Major Adept 3: Opportunist-Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable foes (5%)I think 0.5% per stack would be better. Gives Rifle a bit of a boost.Even better!

Minor Master: Deep Strikes-Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+100 Condi dmg)

This I like. It would make Arms a great adrenaline gain line. Keep the +180 condi damage while under the effects of fury though.Didn't want to make Fury too strong with the original condi buff, hence the decrease. But if you believe we can keep it I'm in.—Major Master 1: Blademaster-same

—Major Master 2: Unsuspecting Foe-sameThere is an opportunity to apply confusion on hitting a CC'd foes, something that warrior had before but was implemented poorly.Dammnit I'm not very creatuve with condi. I'd like to give poison to Blademaster somehow, or weakness. Which would ideally go well with Cull The Weak.Well my recommendation is because we used to inflict Confusion on interrupt, but the duration was too low to be of real use. Weakness you can get from Body Blow, and I'd rather get confusion back on warrior.As for Unsuspecting Foe, how about giving it the 33% chance to bleed on strikes? Does that take away from the overall condition potential?I think keep it on its current minor slot.—Major Master 3: Sundering Burst-Burst skills inflict Vulnerability. Your Vulnerability lasts longer (5%)So the same as current but with 5% more vulnerability duration?I figured that if this were to synergize with Opportunist, this would be enough. Axe MH, GS aa, Rifle and OH Dagger inflict decent vulnerability already (OH Mace too, but that's hardly used in competetive). Perhaps it would be the same if we kept it with extra vulnerability on critical hit, but I think warrior needs a bit larger of attack window.

Minor Grandmaster:"Bloodthirsty"-A portion of the damage of your critical strikes heals you (10%)

Where would you put the 33% chance to bleed on crit? That should go somewhere I think.Maybe on a Major Master, as I said above? We could slap it in the Minor GM, but I'm cautious of it offerring too much. Was even considering Singet Mastery for GM tbh.Or maybe keep it here and change 'Bloodthirsty' to heal you when you inflict bleeding on a foe, something like 200 hp per stack.—Major Grandmaster 1: Furious-Critical hits grant a stacking condition damage effect (+10 condi dmg, max 25 stacks). Reduce incoming condition damage by 0.2% per stack (5% at max capacity)Mmmm.... The current adrenaline gain on Furious is pretty great and I don't want it to go away even with your proposal to Deep Strike. I'd prefer the current Furious over this personally.I suppose +1 adrenaline shouldn't be very broken in the current meta.—Major Grandmaster 2: "Burst Supremacy"- Burst skills have an increased critical-hit chance (50%) and grant 5 stacks of Unblockable (25 seconds)Why not just keep the current 100% chance and just add on an extra rider? Also those 25s of unblockable are way out there in duration.How about:Burst skills have 100% chance to crit.Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks per bar adrenaline spent of Unblockable (5s).

This means that your bursts have 100% crit chance as current, and are unblockable in addition to a few followup attacks, or some multiple hit burst hits.This sounds more practical. A T3 Burst granting some unblockables aye. What an excellent counter to guardians and their focus 5. And since it's based on consumed adrenaline and not landing the burst, there is some good tactics we can use. Would you count entering Berserk Mode as such an instance? It would be cool to pop Berserk (basically consuming adrenaline to convert it to 10 Rage) and have our first burst be unblockable if traited.Well Berserk counts as a T3 bursts and Primal Bursts count as T1 bursts so they would behave as such.

—Major Grandmaster 3: "Crisis"-While below the Health Threshold (75%), attack speed increases (15%) and you gain Alacrity (5 seconds every 20 seconds)Hmm... Make it instead so that you gain quickness and alacrity when struck below 75% for 5s with a 20s CD.

Don't you think that quickness overlaps too much with Heightened Focus? Maybe maintaining a flat increase in attack speed is better?Well Heightened Focus is a pretty garbage trait to be honest. They cut the duration too much in competitive play. Giving another quickness source is not a bad idea.P.S. I separated this into Condi (upper) line, Ferocity/Power dmg (middle) and a more general quality of life (lower) paths. But I'm still confident that the condi path can and should have, slow, confusion, torment and weakness applications. Perhaps getting rid of Blademaster or overhauling it entirely to fit these condis.I can see torment on applying a critical hit via Wounding Precision, but that would only be what is on the trait then. That or applying some number of stacks when you apply a movement impairing condition. I can see confusion on Unsuspecting Foe for reasons stated above. Weakness we can get from elsewhere already. Slow isn't really a core warrior thing and I think we should keep it like that.

Edit: Was thinking of popping a "inflicting vulnerability heals you" just like you write in the main post. But would it actually be beneficial? Would it be too much to have 2 ways to heal in this specialization? Is our vulnerabilityy coverage enough to heal us? (There is also the option "For every 5 stacks of vulnerability you inflict gain a boon (vigor, or might for some strength synergy?)"

Either or really. I was thinking along the lines of the fact that we have several sources of +10 stacks of vulnerability, some of which can hit multiple foes. That coupled with the proposal to turn the Rifles into a 600 range cone AoEs means that you could camp Rifle and get high amounts of self healing with that version of the trait. I was meaning it to be a small source, not a large source. Ideally it would be run with Might Makes Right and/or Mending Might, but not as a replacement. If were feasible as a replacement for MMR for example then you would have Arms/Str/Tact bunker builds using Might, Vulnerability, and Vigorous Shouts to never die, hence the small amount of healing that I suggesting on Sundering Bursts.

A non might based source of healing to nudge sustain upwards some, but not in an oppressive way.

[Gorilla.4120]

Healing Signet was nerfed too hard. The passive base heal should have been reduced to 326 to match the healing potential of Mending. It would have created more diversity in builds and the only trade off would be whether you wanted to clear conditions or have access to resistance. Mending would still synergize better with Peak Performance, whereas Healing Signet would benefit from Signet Mastery. Right now, it's too anemic regardless of what build you're running.

It's never a good sign when the paradigm is, "Choose this skill because it doesn't suck as much as the other skills". :wink:

[Grand Marshal.4098]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:Just some random stuff I put together for Arms cause I was bored. Gonna leave em here

Reworked Arms

Minor Adept: Furious Burst-Bursts grant Fury

Same as current. Not a bad minor so okay.I don't expect a lot from a Minor Adept and given how Burst spam is promoted, I think it's ok as is. (Unless if we say that Fury application A)applies might on it's own application B ) Strips Might from the enemy (overkill))—Major Adept 1: Wounding Precision-Gain Precision based on your power (15%). A percentage of the precision is converted to expertise (20%)Interesting. Those conversions are a lot higher than the current ratios, so probably wouldn't happen.I think that precision based on power is interesting, but for an Adept it would have to be 7%.Since this is the condi tree I'd like to see this trait inflict something like torment on critical in addition to the expertise gain.Yeah, the only numbers I didn't rly check. I thought, for a condi line that adds some precision as well, so if out of 1k power you get 150 precision, convert 30 of that into expertise. Maybe it should follow Blood Reaction as you said.

—Major Adept 2: Signet Mastery-same but instead of lesser Signet of Might, cast lesser Signet of Fury (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 adrenaline) (25 seconds)This trait always bothered me since it gave ferocity instead of precision or condition given the tree it is in. Lesser Signet of Fury as you stated is more thematic for the tree.5s on those state increases correct?I'd imagine it would be enough, yes. I also had the idea of a different lesser signet activating according to some parameter, but it was too much thought and would probably end up to strong (for example: lesser signet of fury for foe below heath threshold, lesser healing sig when below 25% health, lesser dolly sig when stunned, lesser endurance sig when you get 5 condis etc). With a rather big CD on all those, but again, too strong even for weaker singets.—Major Adept 3: Opportunist-Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable foes (5%)I think 0.5% per stack would be better. Gives Rifle a bit of a boost.Even better!

Minor Master: Deep Strikes-Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+100 Condi dmg)

This I like. It would make Arms a great adrenaline gain line. Keep the +180 condi damage while under the effects of fury though.Didn't want to make Fury too strong with the original condi buff, hence the decrease. But if you believe we can keep it I'm in.—Major Master 1: Blademaster-same

—Major Master 2: Unsuspecting Foe-sameThere is an opportunity to apply confusion on hitting a CC'd foes, something that warrior had before but was implemented poorly.Dammnit I'm not very creatuve with condi. I'd like to give poison to Blademaster somehow, or weakness. Which would ideally go well with Cull The Weak.Well my recommendation is because we used to inflict Confusion on interrupt, but the duration was too low to be of real use. Weakness you can get from Body Blow, and I'd rather get confusion back on warrior.As for Unsuspecting Foe, how about giving it the 33% chance to bleed on strikes? Does that take away from the overall condition potential?I think keep it on its current minor slot.—Major Master 3: Sundering Burst-Burst skills inflict Vulnerability. Your Vulnerability lasts longer (5%)So the same as current but with 5% more vulnerability duration?I figured that if this were to synergize with Opportunist, this would be enough. Axe MH, GS aa, Rifle and OH Dagger inflict decent vulnerability already (OH Mace too, but that's hardly used in competetive). Perhaps it would be the same if we kept it with extra vulnerability on critical hit, but I think warrior needs a bit larger of attack window.

Minor Grandmaster:"Bloodthirsty"-A portion of the damage of your critical strikes heals you (10%)

Where would you put the 33% chance to bleed on crit? That should go somewhere I think.Maybe on a Major Master, as I said above? We could slap it in the Minor GM, but I'm cautious of it offerring too much. Was even considering Singet Mastery for GM tbh.Or maybe keep it here and change 'Bloodthirsty' to heal you when you inflict bleeding on a foe, something like 200 hp per stack.—Major Grandmaster 1: Furious-Critical hits grant a stacking condition damage effect (+10 condi dmg, max 25 stacks). Reduce incoming condition damage by 0.2% per stack (5% at max capacity)Mmmm.... The current adrenaline gain on Furious is pretty great and I don't want it to go away even with your proposal to Deep Strike. I'd prefer the current Furious over this personally.I suppose +1 adrenaline shouldn't be very broken in the current meta.—Major Grandmaster 2: "Burst Supremacy"- Burst skills have an increased critical-hit chance (50%) and grant 5 stacks of Unblockable (25 seconds)Why not just keep the current 100% chance and just add on an extra rider? Also those 25s of unblockable are way out there in duration.How about:Burst skills have 100% chance to crit.Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks per bar adrenaline spent of Unblockable (5s).

This means that your bursts have 100% crit chance as current, and are unblockable in addition to a few followup attacks, or some multiple hit burst hits.This sounds more practical. A T3 Burst granting some unblockables aye. What an excellent counter to guardians and their focus 5. And since it's based on consumed adrenaline and not landing the burst, there is some good tactics we can use. Would you count entering Berserk Mode as such an instance? It would be cool to pop Berserk (basically consuming adrenaline to convert it to 10 Rage) and have our first burst be unblockable if traited.Well Berserk counts as a T3 bursts and Primal Bursts count as T1 bursts so they would behave as such.

—Major Grandmaster 3: "Crisis"-While below the Health Threshold (75%), attack speed increases (15%) and you gain Alacrity (5 seconds every 20 seconds)Hmm... Make it instead so that you gain quickness and alacrity when struck below 75% for 5s with a 20s CD.

Don't you think that quickness overlaps too much with Heightened Focus? Maybe maintaining a flat increase in attack speed is better?Well Heightened Focus is a pretty garbage trait to be honest. They cut the duration too much in competitive play. Giving another quickness source is not a bad idea.P.S. I separated this into Condi (upper) line, Ferocity/Power dmg (middle) and a more general quality of life (lower) paths. But I'm still confident that the condi path can and should have, slow, confusion, torment and weakness applications. Perhaps getting rid of Blademaster or overhauling it entirely to fit these condis.I can see torment on applying a critical hit via Wounding Precision, but that would only be what is on the trait then. That or applying some number of stacks when you apply a movement impairing condition. I can see confusion on Unsuspecting Foe for reasons stated above. Weakness we can get from elsewhere already. Slow isn't really a core warrior thing and I think we should keep it like that.

Edit: Was thinking of popping a "inflicting vulnerability heals you" just like you write in the main post. But would it actually be beneficial? Would it be too much to have 2 ways to heal in this specialization? Is our vulnerabilityy coverage enough to heal us? (There is also the option "For every 5 stacks of vulnerability you inflict gain a boon (vigor, or might for some strength synergy?)"

Either or really. I was thinking along the lines of the fact that we have several sources of +10 stacks of vulnerability, some of which can hit multiple foes. That coupled with the proposal to turn the Rifles into a 600 range cone AoEs means that you could camp Rifle and get high amounts of self healing with that version of the trait. I was meaning it to be a small source, not a large source. Ideally it would be run with Might Makes Right and/or Mending Might, but not as a replacement. If were feasible as a replacement for MMR for example then you would have Arms/Str/Tact bunker builds using Might, Vulnerability, and Vigorous Shouts to never die, hence the small amount of healing that I suggesting on Sundering Bursts.

A non might based source of healing to nudge sustain upwards some, but not in an oppressive way.

I read you. So ultimately:

Reworked Arms

Minor Adept Furious Bursts : Burst Skills grant Fury.

Major Adept 1 Wounding Precision : A percentage of your Precision is converted to Expertise (7%). Critical hits have a chance to inflict Torment (50% chance, 1 stack of Torment for 4 seconds).

Major Adept 2 Signet Mastery : Stacking Ferocity Bonus, reduced recharge for signets, cast Lesser Signet of Fury when striking a foe (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 Adrenaline) (25 sec ICD, Lesser Signet active for 5 sec).

Major Adept 3 Opportunist : Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable Foes (12.5% for 25 stacks of Vulnerability inflicted).

Minor Master Deep Strikes : Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 Adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+180 Condi dmg).

Major Master 1 Blademaster : Gain Expertise (120). Gain condition damage while wielding a sword (120). Sword Skills have reduced recharge.

Major Master 2 Unsuspecting Foe : Increased Critical Hit Chance against CC'd foes (50%). Striking CC'd foes inflicts Confusion on the enemy (5 stacks for 5 seconds, 9 second ICD).

Major Master 3 Sundering Burst : Burst skills inflict Vulnerability (5 stacks, for 10 sec, 5 sec ICD), your Vulnerability lasts longer (25%) and you heal yourself for every stack of Vulnerability inlficted on foes (45 HP recovered per Vulnerability stack inflicted).

Minor Grandmaster Bloodthirsty : Inflict Bleed (1 sec) on critical hits (33% chance). Your bleed lasts longer (15% longer). Heal for a percentage of your outgoing critical damage (7%).

Major Grandmaster 1 Furious : Gain bonus adrenaline on critical hits (+1). Gain a stacking Effect (for 10 sec, up to 25 stacks), which improves condi dmg (+10 per stack) and reduces incoming condition damage (0.2% per stack).

Major Grandmaster 2 Burst Supremacy : Burst skills have an increased Critical hit chance (100%). Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks of Unblockable (5s) per adrenaline bar spent.

Major Grandmaster 3 Crisis : While below the Health Threshold (75%), gain Quickness (5 sec) and Alacrity (5 sec) (15 sec ICD).

Damn is it fun to speculate!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:I read you. So ultimately:

Minor Adept Furious Bursts : Burst Skills grant Fury.

Major Adept 1 Wounding Precision : A percentage of your Precision is converted to Expertise (7%). Critical hits have a chance to inflict Torment (50% chance, 1 stack of Torment for 4 seconds, 3 second ICD).If there is an ICD then remove the %chance or vice versa. No need for both.Major Adept 2 Signet Mastery : Stacking Ferocity Bonus, reduced recharge for signets, cast Lesser Signet of Fury when striking a foe (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 Adrenaline) (25 sec ICD, Lesser Signet active for 5 sec).Wasn't it to remove the Ferocity Bonus and replace it with Lesser Signet of Fury or am I misreading somewhere?Major Adept 3 Opportunist : Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable Foes (12.5% for 25 stacks of Vulnerability inflicted).:+1:Minor Master Deep STrikes : Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 Adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+180 Condi dmg).:+1:Major Master 1 Blademaster : Gain Expertise (120). Gain condition damage while wielding a sword (120). Sword Skills have reduced recharge.

Major Master 2 Unsuspecting Foe : Increased Critical Hit Chance against CC'd foes (50%). Striking CC'd foes inflicts Confusion on the enemy (3 stacks for 5 seconds, 9 second ICD).If you want an ICD then make it 5 stacks for 5s. The goal there is to make it a stunbreak trap. Personally I want no ICD and have it be 3s duration. That way you have the option to CC someone, then swap to a high hit rate weapon and put a large stack of confusion on the foe. The skills that can do that are higher CD skills anyway, but then 19 stacks of confusion may be overkill.Major Master 3 Sundering Burst : Burst skills inflict Vulnerability (5 stacks, for 10 sec, 5 sec ICD), your Vulnerability lasts longer (25%) and you heal yourself for every stack of Vulnerability inlficted on foes (45 HP recovered per Vulnerability stack inflicted).:+1:Minor Grandmaster Bloodthirsty : Inflict Bleed (1 sec) on critical hits (33% chance). Your bleed lasts longer (15% longer). Heal for a percentage of your outgoing critical damage (7%).:+1: Although that double dips into Sun and Moon StyleMajor Grandmaster 1 Furious : Gain bonus adrenaline on critical hits (+1). Gain a stacking Effect (for 10 sec, up to 25 stacks), which improves condi dmg (+10 per stack) and reduces incoming condition damage (0.2% per stack).:+1:Major Grandmaster 2 Burst Supremacy : Burst skills have an increased Critical hit chance (100%). Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks of Unblockable (5s) per adrenaline bar spent.:+1:Major Grandmaster 3 Crisis : While below the Health Threshold (75%), gain Quickness (5 sec) and Alacrity (5 sec) (20 sec ICD).:+1:kitten is it fun to speculate!Sure as fuck is. Now you know why I'm constantly permeating through builds in game.

Current build is Hammer Berserker. Merciless Hammer in Berserk Mode makes me smile when I Fierce Blow spam all the bad players in WvW.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:I read you. So ultimately:

Minor Adept

Furious Bursts

: Burst Skills grant Fury.

Major Adept 1

Wounding Precision

: A percentage of your Precision is converted to Expertise (7%). Critical hits have a chance to inflict Torment (50% chance, 1 stack of Torment for 4 seconds, 3 second ICD).If there is an ICD then remove the %chance or vice versa. No need for both.

Major Adept 2

Signet Mastery

: Stacking Ferocity Bonus, reduced recharge for signets, cast Lesser Signet of Fury when striking a foe (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 Adrenaline) (25 sec ICD, Lesser Signet active for 5 sec).Wasn't it to remove the Ferocity Bonus and replace it with Lesser Signet of Fury or am I misreading somewhere?

Major Adept 3

Opportunist

: Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable Foes (12.5% for 25 stacks of Vulnerability inflicted).:+1:

Minor Master

Deep STrikes

: Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 Adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+180 Condi dmg).:+1:

Major Master 1

Blademaster

: Gain Expertise (120). Gain condition damage while wielding a sword (120). Sword Skills have reduced recharge.

Major Master 2

Unsuspecting Foe

: Increased Critical Hit Chance against CC'd foes (50%). Striking CC'd foes inflicts Confusion on the enemy (3 stacks for 5 seconds, 9 second ICD).If you want an ICD then make it 5 stacks for 5s. The goal there is to make it a stunbreak trap. Personally I want no ICD and have it be 3s duration. That way you have the option to CC someone, then swap to a high hit rate weapon and put a large stack of confusion on the foe. The skills that can do that are higher CD skills anyway, but then 19 stacks of confusion may be overkill.

Major Master 3

Sundering Burst

: Burst skills inflict Vulnerability (5 stacks, for 10 sec, 5 sec ICD), your Vulnerability lasts longer (25%) and you heal yourself for every stack of Vulnerability inlficted on foes (45 HP recovered per Vulnerability stack inflicted).:+1:

Minor Grandmaster

Bloodthirsty

: Inflict Bleed (1 sec) on critical hits (33% chance). Your bleed lasts longer (15% longer). Heal for a percentage of your outgoing critical damage (7%).:+1: Although that double dips into Sun and Moon Style

Major Grandmaster 1

Furious

: Gain bonus adrenaline on critical hits (+1). Gain a stacking Effect (for 10 sec, up to 25 stacks), which improves condi dmg (+10 per stack) and reduces incoming condition damage (0.2% per stack).:+1:

Major Grandmaster 2

Burst Supremacy

: Burst skills have an increased Critical hit chance (100%). Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks of Unblockable (5s) per adrenaline bar spent.:+1:

Major Grandmaster 3

Crisis

: While below the Health Threshold (75%), gain Quickness (5 sec) and Alacrity (5 sec) (20 sec ICD).:+1:kitten is it fun to speculate!Sure as kitten is. Now you know why I'm constantly permeating through builds in game.

Current build is Hammer Berserker. Merciless Hammer in Berserk Mode makes me smile when I Fierce Blow spam all the bad players in WvW.

Mhm I updated those minor changes. Decided to maintain the icd for unsuspecting foe and increase the confusion stacks.

Signet mastery would basically swap lesser signet of might for fury, therefore the current stacking ferocity bonus would remain.

As for the minor GM, perhaps it can be somehow altered and we can go for a sun and moon style combo for blademaster, but ig we can leave it as is for fun.

Berserker Hammer builds huh. Sounds very fun to play. The animation of hammer primal burst is probably my favourite primal burst too.

And finally, perhaps we could do this whole concept thing with Defense. I have less ideas about defense but 'll try to piece something out based on suggestions throughout this thread.

Do you believe other warrior mains would appreciate these changes to Arms? (Just realised how much better it will be to run on my mark and sundering leap with vulnerability heals and dmg traited in arms! what a way to augment almost unused skills!).

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:Berserker Hammer builds huh. Sounds very fun to play. The animation of hammer primal burst is probably my favourite primal burst too.Well Rupturing Smash still does damage, so you can DPS with hammer fairly well as a Berserker still.And finally, perhaps we could do this whole concept thing with Defense. I have less ideas about defense but 'll try to piece something out based on suggestions throughout this thread.Really it's only the top line of traits that need work on Defense. That and there should be more retaliation in the line and more effects related to retaliation.Do you believe other warrior mains would appreciate these changes to Arms? (Just realised how much better it will be to run on my mark and sundering leap with vulnerability heals and dmg traited in arms! what a way to augment almost unused skills!).

The meta traits were just upgraded and underperforming traits were made to synergize with the condi line more. I'm sure it would be appreciated if Anet made those changes.

[Girth.9731]

@"Mighty Cole.7849" said:Healing Signet was nerfed too hard. The passive base heal should have been reduced to 326 to match the healing potential of Mending. It would have created more diversity in builds and the only trade off would be whether you wanted to clear conditions or have access to resistance. Mending would still synergize better with Peak Performance, whereas Healing Signet would benefit from Signet Mastery. Right now, it's too anemic regardless of what build you're running.

It's never a good sign when the paradigm is, "Choose this skill because it doesn't suck as much as the other skills". :wink:

Yeah Healing Signet was way overnerfed. Believe me, I was one of the last holdouts who swapped to Mending because I loved the gameplay that the passive heal promoted, but Mending is way better than Healing Signet right now. There really isn't even a comparison to be made honestly. I wish Anet would give Healing Signet a little love so I could use it again.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Girth.9731 said:

@"Mighty Cole.7849" said:Healing Signet was nerfed too hard. The passive base heal should have been reduced to 326 to match the healing potential of Mending. It would have created more diversity in builds and the only trade off would be whether you wanted to clear conditions or have access to resistance. Mending would still synergize better with Peak Performance, whereas Healing Signet would benefit from Signet Mastery. Right now, it's too anemic regardless of what build you're running.

It's never a good sign when the paradigm is, "Choose this skill because it doesn't suck as much as the other skills". :wink:

Yeah Healing Signet was way overnerfed. Believe me, I was one of the last holdouts who swapped to Mending because I loved the gameplay that the passive heal promoted, but Mending is

way

better than Healing Signet right now. There really isn't even a comparison to be made honestly. I wish Anet would give Healing Signet a little love so I could use it again.

It didn't help that they then BUFFED Mending with more condition removal.

I parsed out the healing nerfs across the classes from the Feb. 2020 patch and I came to the realization that they were just purposefully pushing people to other healing skills/traits and away from others for the sake of making them use other skills/traits for a while and had nothing at all to do with 'balance' in the slightest.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Here is an idea for Defense. It is supposed to be out self sustain line, but has been gutted. With these recommendations I am leaning into Spiked Armor and Adrenal Health as traitline mechanics, namely giving ways to gain Adrenal Health that do not involve bursts and a few more ways to gain Retaliation for the damage reduction via Spiked Armor.

Dogged March:Gain 1 stack of Adrenal Health when you are inflicted with a movement impairing condition. These conditions have reduced duration (66%).

Defy Pain:This trait now grants Protection for 4s and Resistance for 4s when you break a stun. 10s ICD.

It is thematic for the name Defy Pain, and it gives the warrior some needed defensive boons. In particular it would help Berserker a great deal. Not related to Adrenal Health or Retaliation, but Defy Pain needs to be fixed and this is a decent way of doing it. It is reliant on breaking a stun, and yes it could be used with Rousing Resilience to really take very little damage after a stun break, but unlike RR this has an ICD.

Armored Attack:You gain 10% of your toughness as power. Gain Retaliation (5s) when you inflict weakness on a foe. Gaining Retaliation grants you might (3 stacks for 5s). 15s CD.Gives another source of Retaliation to fuel Spiked Armor, but also gives a rider that gaining retaliation gives you some might.

Last StandStances last 1s longer and have 20% reduced CD. Activating a stance grants 1 stack of Adrenal Health and 5s of Retaliation. 15s CD.With this you have some decent sustain, nothing overbearing. With this change you have the option for fairly strong physical damage reduction via RR, condi mitigation via Cleansing Ire, or general sustain via Last Stand.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Here is an idea for Defense. It is supposed to be out self sustain line, but has been gutted. With these recommendations I am leaning into Spiked Armor and Adrenal Health as traitline mechanics, namely giving ways to gain Adrenal Health that do not involve bursts and a few more ways to gain Retaliation for the damage reduction via Spiked Armor.

Dogged March:Gain 1 stack of Adrenal Health when you are inflicted with a movement impairing condition. These conditions have reduced duration (66%).

Defy Pain:This trait now grants Protection for 4s and Resistance for 4s when you break a stun. 10s ICD.

It is thematic for the name Defy Pain, and it gives the warrior some needed defensive boons. In particular it would help Berserker a great deal. Not related to Adrenal Health or Retaliation, but Defy Pain needs to be fixed and this is a decent way of doing it. It is reliant on breaking a stun, and yes it could be used with Rousing Resilience to really take very little damage after a stun break, but unlike RR this has an ICD.

Armored Attack:You gain 10% of your toughness as power. Gain Retaliation (5s) when you inflict weakness on a foe. Gaining Retaliation grants you might (3 stacks for 5s). 15s CD.Gives another source of Retaliation to fuel Spiked Armor, but also gives a rider that gaining retaliation gives you some might.

Last StandStances last 1s longer and have 20% reduced CD. Activating a stance grants 1 stack of Adrenal Health and 5s of Retaliation. 15s CD.With this you have some decent sustain, nothing overbearing. With this change you have the option for fairly strong physical damage reduction via RR, condi mitigation via Cleansing Ire, or general sustain via Last Stand.

Im a fan of these ideas!

What do you think about Cull the Weak? We had discussed this in the past, but with these ideas on the table, maybe it can become a "Weaken foes when striking with bursts skills, deal more dmg to weakened foes". Ofc we would give a necessary icd so we don't have perma weakness access. I can definitely see how weakness in the traitline can work as a "the best defense is offense" idea, but currently cull the weak doesnt promote that. Adrenal health definetely does tho and with a rework Rage Sig, I can see a lot of value out of this.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Here is an idea for Defense. It is supposed to be out self sustain line, but has been gutted. With these recommendations I am leaning into Spiked Armor and Adrenal Health as traitline mechanics, namely giving ways to gain Adrenal Health that do not involve bursts and a few more ways to gain Retaliation for the damage reduction via Spiked Armor.

Dogged March:Gain 1 stack of Adrenal Health when you are inflicted with a movement impairing condition. These conditions have reduced duration (66%).

Defy Pain:This trait now grants Protection for 4s and Resistance for 4s when you break a stun. 10s ICD.

It is thematic for the name Defy Pain, and it gives the warrior some needed defensive boons. In particular it would help Berserker a great deal. Not related to Adrenal Health or Retaliation, but Defy Pain needs to be fixed and this is a decent way of doing it. It is reliant on breaking a stun, and yes it could be used with Rousing Resilience to really take very little damage after a stun break, but unlike RR this has an ICD.

Armored Attack:You gain 10% of your toughness as power. Gain Retaliation (5s) when you inflict weakness on a foe. Gaining Retaliation grants you might (3 stacks for 5s). 15s CD.Gives another source of Retaliation to fuel Spiked Armor, but also gives a rider that gaining retaliation gives you some might.

Last StandStances last 1s longer and have 20% reduced CD. Activating a stance grants 1 stack of Adrenal Health and 5s of Retaliation. 15s CD.With this you have some decent sustain, nothing overbearing. With this change you have the option for fairly strong physical damage reduction via RR, condi mitigation via Cleansing Ire, or general sustain via Last Stand.

Im a fan of these ideas!Thank you. I keep trying to think of how DP and LS can be reworked by the Dev team in a way that won't cause the balance team to slap another lazy 300s CD on them...What do you think about Cull the Weak? We had discussed this in the past, but with these ideas on the table, maybe it can become a "Weaken foes when striking with bursts skills, deal more dmg to weakened foes". Ofc we would give a necessary icd so we don't have perma weakness access. I can definitely see how weakness in the traitline can work as a "the best defense is offense" idea, but currently cull the weak doesnt promote that. Adrenal health definetely does tho and with a rework Rage Sig, I can see a lot of value out of this.

I'll have to go back through the discussion and remind myself, but this is till pretty much an ongoing discussion over what exactly to do with Defense (not to mention Berserker).

I feel like, while we all come up with awesome sounding ideas, that they all somewhat jump the shark. With these suggestions I was more taking a step back to take a higher altitude look.

Defense has both Spiked Armor and Adrenal Health to leverage for self sustain, however Spiked Armor is the only source of core Retaliation outside of runes and Adrenal Health requires hitting with a burst. So, giving via the traitline other ways to gain Retaliation and Adrenal Health make sense.

Replacing the Regen on DM with AH seemed pretty obvious.Changing DP to gain Protection and and Resistance on stunbreak made sense given the theme of the trait, with a CD to keep it from becoming a bunker cancer trait made sense.Armored Attack made sense to correlate to Spiked Armor somehow. Linking it to weakness yields trait synergy within the traitline which is a good thing. Giving a small might gain also plays into the them of 'Armored Attack' but also via Strength and Tactics gives an avenue of some more self sustain.Last Stand, I replaced the Lesser Balanced Stance proc and Vigor with Adrenal Health and Retaliation for some damage reduction and extra healing that you can trigger a bit more freely, again with a CD to keep it from becoming a bunker cancer trait.

[MichaelArchangel.7251]

Just wanted to chime in. I like a lot of the proposed changes in the Omnibus. Throwing in my 2 cents on a few issues as I see them, having spent the past year trying to make warrior work. Focus on this is from a WvW roaming/non-zerg player perspective:1) Damage is underwhelming. Only way I've functionally overcome this is crit-stacking. Did this with core build, marauders, w/ runes of eagle and traited to have high fury uptime with crits. This build has done what I would expect as a baseline for warrior with damage output. That's... sad.2) CC's are underwhelming. When ANET stripped the damage from our CC's, they gutted those weapons. I use a mace/shield build on a warrior w/ bull rush. I find that combo is effective with groups vs supes and lords for defiance bars... but vs players, the cc effects are generally too short, too easy to mitigate, and don't do enough damage with our slow attack speed. Really argue that, CC's for some professions did need a damage nerf... but warrior should have had damage factored in to its cc's as a feature of the prof.3) Greatsword is... underwhelming. Compare it to guardian and reaper, and it's disappointing. #1 is slow, and unimpressive. I'd bump up the vuln stacks per strike or speed it up. #2 is terrible rooted. Neither #2 for reaper or guard is rooted, which makes those functional. And it's slooooow. Per the Omnibus... shortening the damage into a smaller timeframe would improve. #3 is the most useful simply for the evade. I'd keep as is ONLY if Hundred Blades is fixed. If Hundred Blades stays as it is, get rid of the damn path arrow and let us drive the evade (a la thief elite, guard #2, but shorter duration). #4.. too slow. My grandma can evade this. #5... too damn slow on the strike and the quasi root at the end of it is garbage.4) Ranged attacks: these could be viable and cool with some work and could make the warrior an effective ranged option. This could give the prof a huge bump in utility/options.5) Sword... The offhand abilities blow. And again, get rid of the damned root (burst skill). Which leads me to....6) FFS.... quit gimping us with rooted attacks. Few professions are rooted on attacks. Ranger can run on skill #2 w/ longbow... why not root them for this? Holo's special skills aren't rooted. Guardian's sword #3 is rooted but... is ranged. Rev doesn't have rooted attacks that I'm aware of. Nor does necro. Mes has a rooted sword skill. Warrior... has GS #2. End of GS #5 (yeah, can weapon stow/swap out of). Sword burst. Rifle burst. Hammer #4 (might be wrong... haven't used hammer in so damn long except for rare zerg instances).7) .... No one plays a warrior because they want to play support.

That last point. Right now, a peek at metabattle shows most of the "meta" builds are.... support. Bannerslave or support spellbreaker. This is for what SHOULD be a premier melee power/damage profession. It should be the in-your-face damage dealer equivalent of thief. I understand top-performing thief requires high skill. So can warrior. The problem is one performs, the other falls short. Yes, warrior might need to be tuned back a bit, as thief takes a LOT of skill to play at high output (think of the ultra mobile gank-monsters you see in wvw), and warrior... can get by without as much skill.

That said.. I'd argue either improve the potential upside for a well-played warrior... or raise the baseline. I'm all for rewarding high-skilled players, but as I see it, warrior doesn't have that top end right now, and objectively fails at fulfilling the "fantasy role" of a front-line fighter class/profession.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"MichaelArchangel.7251" said:Just wanted to chime in. I like a lot of the proposed changes in the Omnibus. Throwing in my 2 cents on a few issues as I see them, having spent the past year trying to make warrior work. Focus on this is from a WvW roaming/non-zerg player perspective:1) Damage is underwhelming. Only way I've functionally overcome this is crit-stacking. Did this with core build, marauders, w/ runes of eagle and traited to have high fury uptime with crits. This build has done what I would expect as a baseline for warrior with damage output. That's... sad.2) CC's are underwhelming. When ANET stripped the damage from our CC's, they gutted those weapons. I use a mace/shield build on a warrior w/ bull rush. I find that combo is effective with groups vs supes and lords for defiance bars... but vs players, the cc effects are generally too short, too easy to mitigate, and don't do enough damage with our slow attack speed. Really argue that, CC's for some professions did need a damage nerf... but warrior should have had damage factored in to its cc's as a feature of the prof.3) Greatsword is... underwhelming. Compare it to guardian and reaper, and it's disappointing. #1 is slow, and unimpressive. I'd bump up the vuln stacks per strike or speed it up. #2 is terrible rooted. Neither #2 for reaper or guard is rooted, which makes those functional. And it's slooooow. Per the Omnibus... shortening the damage into a smaller timeframe would improve. #3 is the most useful simply for the evade. I'd keep as is ONLY if Hundred Blades is fixed. If Hundred Blades stays as it is, get rid of the kitten path arrow and let us drive the evade (a la thief elite, guard #2, but shorter duration). #4.. too slow. My grandma can evade this. #5... too kitten slow on the strike and the quasi root at the end of it is garbage.4) Ranged attacks: these could be viable and cool with some work and could make the warrior an effective ranged option. This could give the prof a huge bump in utility/options.5) Sword... The offhand abilities blow. And again, get rid of the damned root (burst skill). Which leads me to....6) kitten.... quit gimping us with rooted attacks. Few professions are rooted on attacks. Ranger can run on skill #2 w/ longbow... why not root them for this? Holo's special skills aren't rooted. Guardian's sword #3 is rooted but... is ranged. Rev doesn't have rooted attacks that I'm aware of. Nor does necro. Mes has a rooted sword skill. Warrior... has GS #2. End of GS #5 (yeah, can weapon stow/swap out of). Sword burst. Rifle burst. Hammer #4 (might be wrong... haven't used hammer in so kitten long except for rare zerg instances).7) .... No one plays a warrior because they want to play support.

That last point. Right now, a peek at metabattle shows most of the "meta" builds are.... support. Bannerslave or support spellbreaker. This is for what SHOULD be a premier melee power/damage profession. It should be the in-your-face damage dealer equivalent of thief. I understand top-performing thief requires high skill. So can warrior. The problem is one performs, the other falls short. Yes, warrior might need to be tuned back a bit, as thief takes a LOT of skill to play at high output (think of the ultra mobile gank-monsters you see in wvw), and warrior... can get by without as much skill.

That said.. I'd argue either improve the potential upside for a well-played warrior... or raise the baseline. I'm all for rewarding high-skilled players, but as I see it, warrior doesn't have that top end right now, and objectively fails at fulfilling the "fantasy role" of a front-line fighter class/profession.

Yet with all this useful and imo great balance suggestions anet devs will ignore and listen to non warrior players and nerf the class more or make changes to it that literally change nothing in the end and solve non of the classes glaring issues.Ud think they'd be appreciative of all the work u guys put into ur balance warrior threads.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@"MichaelArchangel.7251" said:Just wanted to chime in. I like a lot of the proposed changes in the Omnibus. Throwing in my 2 cents on a few issues as I see them, having spent the past year trying to make warrior work. Focus on this is from a WvW roaming/non-zerg player perspective:1) Damage is underwhelming. Only way I've functionally overcome this is crit-stacking. Did this with core build, marauders, w/ runes of eagle and traited to have high fury uptime with crits. This build has done what I would expect as a baseline for warrior with damage output. That's... sad.You should be Crit Stacking regardless in order to max your damage. But the loss of damage on CC is what really hurt the warrior so much.2) CC's are underwhelming. When ANET stripped the damage from our CC's, they gutted those weapons. I use a mace/shield build on a warrior w/ bull rush. I find that combo is effective with groups vs supes and lords for defiance bars... but vs players, the cc effects are generally too short, too easy to mitigate, and don't do enough damage with our slow attack speed. Really argue that, CC's for some professions did need a damage nerf... but warrior should have had damage factored in to its cc's as a feature of the prof.You are correct. One way to address this is turning Body Blow into critable power damage.3) Greatsword is... underwhelming. Compare it to guardian and reaper, and it's disappointing. #1 is slow, and unimpressive. I'd bump up the vuln stacks per strike or speed it up. #2 is terrible rooted. Neither #2 for reaper or guard is rooted, which makes those functional. And it's slooooow. Per the Omnibus... shortening the damage into a smaller timeframe would improve. #3 is the most useful simply for the evade. I'd keep as is ONLY if Hundred Blades is fixed. If Hundred Blades stays as it is, get rid of the kitten path arrow and let us drive the evade (a la thief elite, guard #2, but shorter duration). #4.. too slow. My grandma can evade this. #5... too kitten slow on the strike and the quasi root at the end of it is garbage.You are correct on all accounts.4) Ranged attacks: these could be viable and cool with some work and could make the warrior an effective ranged option. This could give the prof a huge bump in utility/options.5) Sword... The offhand abilities blow. And again, get rid of the damned root (burst skill). Which leads me to....6) kitten.... quit gimping us with rooted attacks. Few professions are rooted on attacks. Ranger can run on skill #2 w/ longbow... why not root them for this? Holo's special skills aren't rooted. Guardian's sword #3 is rooted but... is ranged. Rev doesn't have rooted attacks that I'm aware of. Nor does necro. Mes has a rooted sword skill. Warrior... has GS #2. End of GS #5 (yeah, can weapon stow/swap out of). Sword burst. Rifle burst. Hammer #4 (might be wrong... haven't used hammer in so kitten long except for rare zerg instances).I will point out that you missed the thief sword skill that self roots, but it does CC as well, and the mesmer skill evades for the duration. Guardian sword attack blocks projectiles. Rev has a self root on hammer, but also evades during the frames, Ranger on Axe has a self root, but reflects projectiles during the channel. You see the trend here? all of the other classes that have self roots also have a defensive aspect to them. An equivalent thing would be to put reflect on 100blades, which Shield Mastery would then reflect.7) .... No one plays a warrior because they want to play support.

That last point. Right now, a peek at metabattle shows most of the "meta" builds are.... support. Bannerslave or support spellbreaker. This is for what SHOULD be a premier melee power/damage profession. It should be the in-your-face damage dealer equivalent of thief. I understand top-performing thief requires high skill. So can warrior. The problem is one performs, the other falls short. Yes, warrior might need to be tuned back a bit, as thief takes a LOT of skill to play at high output (think of the ultra mobile gank-monsters you see in wvw), and warrior... can get by without as much skill.That is mostly due to some unique buffs that warrior provides and not from any true active form of support outside of Shouts. Warrior actually needs BETTER support that isn't lazy design.That said.. I'd argue either improve the potential upside for a well-played warrior... or raise the baseline. I'm all for rewarding high-skilled players, but as I see it, warrior doesn't have that top end right now, and objectively fails at fulfilling the "fantasy role" of a front-line fighter class/profession.

Thanks for coming over and giving your input! :+1:

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yet with all this useful and imo great balance suggestions anet devs will ignore and listen to non warrior players and nerf the class more or make changes to it that literally change nothing in the end and solve non of the classes glaring issues.Ud think they'd be appreciative of all the work u guys put into ur balance warrior threads.Anet could hire me to fix warrior for them and create the new espec for them and all it would cost them is a pair of Quips.

[MichaelArchangel.7251]

I might goof up formatting.... but bear with...

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"MichaelArchangel.7251" said:Just wanted to chime in. I like a lot of the proposed changes in the Omnibus. Throwing in my 2 cents on a few issues as I see them, having spent the past year trying to make warrior work. Focus on this is from a WvW roaming/non-zerg player perspective:1) Damage is underwhelming. Only way I've functionally overcome this is crit-stacking. Did this with core build, marauders, w/ runes of eagle and traited to have high fury uptime with crits. This build has done what I would expect as a baseline for warrior with damage output. That's... sad.You should be Crit Stacking regardless in order to max your damage. But the loss of damage on CC is what really hurt the warrior so much.I should clarify. I built it for 100% crit. Unbuffed with fury, at 80%. Once fury kicks in, everything should be a crit (unless there's mechanics I'm unaware of). Even then... it feels like this is almost mandatory to be effective. That, without the crits, we hit like a nerf bat.

6) kitten.... quit gimping us with rooted attacks. Few professions are rooted on attacks. Ranger can run on skill #2 w/ longbow... why not root them for this? Holo's special skills aren't rooted. Guardian's sword #3 is rooted but... is ranged. Rev doesn't have rooted attacks that I'm aware of. Nor does necro. Mes has a rooted sword skill. Warrior... has GS #2. End of GS #5 (yeah, can weapon stow/swap out of). Sword burst. Rifle burst. Hammer #4 (might be wrong... haven't used hammer in so kitten long except for rare zerg instances).I will point out that you missed the thief sword skill that self roots, but it does CC as well, and the mesmer skill evades for the duration. Guardian sword attack blocks projectiles. Rev has a self root on hammer, but also evades during the frames, Ranger on Axe has a self root, but reflects projectiles during the channel. You see the trend here? all of the other classes that have self roots also have a defensive aspect to them. An equivalent thing would be to put reflect on 100blades, which Shield Mastery would then reflect.Learn something new every day. I knew about some of this. Love the idea. Anything that makes 100 Blades ... less-punishing? The root aspect of it, as it is, drives me away from using it. For a #2 skill... this seems like terrible design. I'd even be open to flipping it to the #4 slot. Slide #3 skill to 2... #4 to 3. Hundred blades in its current design is lacking.

7) .... No one plays a warrior because they want to play support.

That last point. Right now, a peek at metabattle shows most of the "meta" builds are.... support. Bannerslave or support spellbreaker. This is for what SHOULD be a premier melee power/damage profession. It should be the in-your-face damage dealer equivalent of thief. I understand top-performing thief requires high skill. So can warrior. The problem is one performs, the other falls short. Yes, warrior might need to be tuned back a bit, as thief takes a LOT of skill to play at high output (think of the ultra mobile gank-monsters you see in wvw), and warrior... can get by without as much skill.That is mostly due to some unique buffs that warrior provides and not from any true active form of support outside of Shouts. Warrior actually needs BETTER support that isn't lazy design.Ok. I'll concur with this. I don't want to crap on support roles. That last point is probably dead on. The term that comes to mind is "one-trick pony". We have Winds for WvW zerg. And... Banners. Shouts. I just have a hard time feeling we offer anything near what other profs do.

That said.. I'd argue either improve the potential upside for a well-played warrior... or raise the baseline. I'm all for rewarding high-skilled players, but as I see it, warrior doesn't have that top end right now, and objectively fails at fulfilling the "fantasy role" of a front-line fighter class/profession.

Thanks for coming over and giving your input! :+1:

Thank you for hearing me out. <3

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Fully tested SBS today with a Magebane build cause we had 4 thieves at out North Camp killing anyone in sight.

I missed a lot of my sustain cause I also slotted On My Mark for total reveal uptime.

While utilizing SBS, I was getting spammed with blinds and despite delivering some heavy Bursts, half my hits would still end up missing, unless if I spammed SBS. So this reinforces our past point on SBS granting immunity to blind for a short period of time, instead of removing the condition once.

Also, once more Thieves prevail over warriors. Every thief has an interrupt in their weapon set and every thief traits daze on steal. It is absurd for the unblockable steal to bypass full counter. Basically the pattern I see from thieves vs Warrs is:

Stealth - > pistol to spam blind - > steal to interrupt any defensive action - > pistol 3/sword 2 to kite away and chip the warrior's health. Reserve dodges for Bull's charge and CCs that can be easily registered (head butt getting evaded almost point blank).

That said, not asking for a thief nerf, but there should be punishment for interrupting Full Counter. It doesn't make sense. We saw a recent nerf on full counter in competitive, so I doubt anything else will change.

Anyway, I digress. Point was SBS is a rather useful skill with great potential if tweaked as we said. Full Counter not getting interrupted by unblockable daze would be interesting, but I'm sure people would say that SPB is unkillable.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:Fully tested SBS today with a Magebane build cause we had 4 thieves at out North Camp killing anyone in sight.

I missed a lot of my sustain cause I also slotted On My Mark for total reveal uptime.

While utilizing SBS, I was getting spammed with blinds and despite delivering some heavy Bursts, half my hits would still end up missing, unless if I spammed SBS. So this reinforces our past point on SBS granting immunity to blind for a short period of time, instead of removing the condition once.

Also, once more Thieves prevail over warriors. Every thief has an interrupt in their weapon set and every thief traits daze on steal. It is absurd for the unblockable steal to bypass full counter. Basically the pattern I see from thieves vs Warrs is:

Stealth - > pistol to spam blind - > steal to interrupt any defensive action - > pistol 3/sword 2 to kite away and chip the warrior's health. Reserve dodges for Bull's charge and CCs that can be easily registered (head butt getting evaded almost point blank).

That said, not asking for a thief nerf, but there should be punishment for interrupting Full Counter. It doesn't make sense. We saw a recent nerf on full counter in competitive, so I doubt anything else will change.

Anyway, I digress. Point was SBS is a rather useful skill with great potential if tweaked as we said. Full Counter not getting interrupted by unblockable daze would be interesting, but I'm sure people would say that SPB is unkillable.

We're not going into potential nerfs on other classes here. The unlockable daze on steal is the thief's thing let them have it.

If you want FC to not get interrupted there is stability for that.

SBS should be blind immunity for a short duration, but then core warrior could use a source of resistance from Defense.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:Fully tested SBS today with a Magebane build cause we had 4 thieves at out North Camp killing anyone in sight.

I missed a lot of my sustain cause I also slotted On My Mark for total reveal uptime.

While utilizing SBS, I was getting spammed with blinds and despite delivering some heavy Bursts, half my hits would still end up missing, unless if I spammed SBS. So this reinforces our past point on SBS granting

immunity

to blind for a short period of time, instead of removing the condition once.

Also, once more Thieves prevail over warriors. Every thief has an interrupt in their weapon set and every thief traits daze on steal. It is absurd for the unblockable steal to bypass full counter. Basically the pattern I see from thieves vs Warrs is:

Stealth - > pistol to spam blind - > steal to interrupt any defensive action - > pistol 3/sword 2 to kite away and chip the warrior's health. Reserve dodges for Bull's charge and CCs that can be easily registered (head butt getting evaded almost point blank).

That said, not asking for a thief nerf, but there should be punishment for interrupting Full Counter. It doesn't make sense. We saw a recent nerf on full counter in competitive, so I doubt anything else will change.

Anyway, I digress. Point was SBS is a rather useful skill with great potential if tweaked as we said. Full Counter not getting interrupted by unblockable daze would be interesting, but I'm sure people would say that SPB is unkillable.

We're not going into potential nerfs on other classes here. The unlockable daze on steal is the thief's thing let them have it.

If you want FC to not get interrupted there is stability for that.

SBS should be blind immunity for a short duration, but then core warrior could use a source of resistance from Defense.

Was wondering if we could use a trait with stab too. As in, a better version of the Major Adept in Strength. Maybe instead of stab on movement, 66% chance to have stab on Bursts?

Assuming Last Stand never makes it in the same form back into Defense.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:Fully tested SBS today with a Magebane build cause we had 4 thieves at out North Camp killing anyone in sight.

I missed a lot of my sustain cause I also slotted On My Mark for total reveal uptime.

While utilizing SBS, I was getting spammed with blinds and despite delivering some heavy Bursts, half my hits would still end up missing, unless if I spammed SBS. So this reinforces our past point on SBS granting

immunity

to blind for a short period of time, instead of removing the condition once.

Also, once more Thieves prevail over warriors. Every thief has an interrupt in their weapon set and every thief traits daze on steal. It is absurd for the unblockable steal to bypass full counter. Basically the pattern I see from thieves vs Warrs is:

Stealth - > pistol to spam blind - > steal to interrupt any defensive action - > pistol 3/sword 2 to kite away and chip the warrior's health. Reserve dodges for Bull's charge and CCs that can be easily registered (head butt getting evaded almost point blank).

That said, not asking for a thief nerf, but there should be punishment for interrupting Full Counter. It doesn't make sense. We saw a recent nerf on full counter in competitive, so I doubt anything else will change.

Anyway, I digress. Point was SBS is a rather useful skill with great potential if tweaked as we said. Full Counter not getting interrupted by unblockable daze would be interesting, but I'm sure people would say that SPB is unkillable.

We're not going into potential nerfs on other classes here. The unlockable daze on steal is the thief's thing let them have it.

If you want FC to not get interrupted there is stability for that.

SBS should be blind immunity for a short duration, but then core warrior could use a source of resistance from Defense.

Was wondering if we could use a trait with stab too. As in, a better version of the Major Adept in Strength. Maybe instead of stab on movement, 66% chance to have stab on Bursts?

Assuming Last Stand never makes it in the same form back into Defense.

Stab on burst for Last Stand could work, but it would end up with a 15s CD knowing Anet.

[losalamos.5123]

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:Fully tested SBS today with a Magebane build cause we had 4 thieves at out North Camp killing anyone in sight.

I missed a lot of my sustain cause I also slotted On My Mark for total reveal uptime.

While utilizing SBS, I was getting spammed with blinds and despite delivering some heavy Bursts, half my hits would still end up missing, unless if I spammed SBS. So this reinforces our past point on SBS granting immunity to blind for a short period of time, instead of removing the condition once.

Also, once more Thieves prevail over warriors. Every thief has an interrupt in their weapon set and every thief traits daze on steal. It is absurd for the unblockable steal to bypass full counter. Basically the pattern I see from thieves vs Warrs is:

Stealth - > pistol to spam blind - > steal to interrupt any defensive action - > pistol 3/sword 2 to kite away and chip the warrior's health. Reserve dodges for Bull's charge and CCs that can be easily registered (head butt getting evaded almost point blank).

That said, not asking for a thief nerf, but there should be punishment for interrupting Full Counter. It doesn't make sense. We saw a recent nerf on full counter in competitive, so I doubt anything else will change.

Anyway, I digress. Point was SBS is a rather useful skill with great potential if tweaked as we said. Full Counter not getting interrupted by unblockable daze would be interesting, but I'm sure people would say that SPB is unkillable.

FC can't ever stop unblockable CC's, because the stability is triggered when FC happens. The CC interrupts it first.To work, FC needs to be changed so it grant stability on cast, rather than after proccing.That or, remove cast time from FC and just make it a buff.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@losalamos.5123 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:Fully tested SBS today with a Magebane build cause we had 4 thieves at out North Camp killing anyone in sight.

I missed a lot of my sustain cause I also slotted On My Mark for total reveal uptime.

While utilizing SBS, I was getting spammed with blinds and despite delivering some heavy Bursts, half my hits would still end up missing, unless if I spammed SBS. So this reinforces our past point on SBS granting

immunity

to blind for a short period of time, instead of removing the condition once.

Also, once more Thieves prevail over warriors. Every thief has an interrupt in their weapon set and every thief traits daze on steal. It is absurd for the unblockable steal to bypass full counter. Basically the pattern I see from thieves vs Warrs is:

Stealth - > pistol to spam blind - > steal to interrupt any defensive action - > pistol 3/sword 2 to kite away and chip the warrior's health. Reserve dodges for Bull's charge and CCs that can be easily registered (head butt getting evaded almost point blank).

That said, not asking for a thief nerf, but there should be punishment for interrupting Full Counter. It doesn't make sense. We saw a recent nerf on full counter in competitive, so I doubt anything else will change.

Anyway, I digress. Point was SBS is a rather useful skill with great potential if tweaked as we said. Full Counter not getting interrupted by unblockable daze would be interesting, but I'm sure people would say that SPB is unkillable.

FC can't ever stop unblockable CC's, because the stability is triggered when FC happens. The CC interrupts it first.To work, FC needs to be changed so it grant stability on cast, rather than after proccing.That or, remove cast time from FC and just make it a buff.

Or make it a flip over so that you either have the 'blocking' duration that then executes the attack upon being hit or just hit the attack directly for the evade frames, stability, daze, and 'damage.'