Spellbreakers have too much resistance

[Lighter.5631]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:Nah, warrior's mobility is fine, in fact it needs to be buffed if ever anet decide to gut warrior's defense to a level everybody can 1v1 it reliably.

Nah, its not fine. But you see I'm a unbiased person and I don't defend a class because I "identify" with it. Warrior is broke, its mobility is one of the main causes on why its broke. You pair that mobility with the insane passive regen that can not be stripped then it makes it op. They have nerfed warriors passive regen again and again and its hasn't done anything but make warrior uncompetitive or make them overpowering.

My perspective is given the warriors innate high health, invuls, high resistance, stability,blocks AND even protection now (WOW), that they SHOULD not be able to escape danger so easily. They should be mobile going into the fight but not going out. Aka rush should require a target to work.

Your opinion/experience is definitely biased based on your own build/class.As a unbiased person who only played holosmith since season ended, prefer to play holosmith at the moment, don't care about warrior nerf, beat spellbreaker(who i can't beat on my spellbreaker) on holosmith and don't identify myself to any class, my opinion is definitely less biased then yours. :)

ok, enough kidding, there are enough builds at the moment that can chase a spellbreaker easily, few example, mirage, holo, dh, dd etcproblem is people can't take it down because they will get counter pressured by full counter, not because they don't have mobility, some of them even capable to out run imo.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

@OriOri.8724 said:SB's access to resistance is not the problem. The problem is how powerful resistance is as a boon. It needs to be nerfed, hard. It should not be providing full immunity from all conditions. At best it should probide 100% damage reduction from conditions, but not ignore the secondary effects. but even that is too strong honestly.

that removed the purpose of feather foot grace, its resistance is there to remove movement impairing effects, if resist does not do this then.... it becomes... useless

[Amityel.5324]

damn wars and necros were useless in pvp now they shine and my fellow mesmers, guards etc are complaining their classes cant no longer beats them easily like it was before..........necro with ds? well just kite till he comes out then burst him gg write him lol but you got second HP bar you are supposed to be OP........war vs mesmer I could beat wars with one hand only playing chrono sages now they are really magehunters (spellbreakers) I dont have problem with it since I really didnt meet war who could 1vs3 for more than 15s maybe (those were best)

[Mikeskies.1536]

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it.

Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't

have

all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable.

Lots of other pvp specs have access to all three...

[Fjaeldmark.9043]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it.

Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't

have

all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable.

Lots of other pvp specs have access to all three...

Which ones?

[Derps.7421]

Full counter needs to be on a 10-12 sec cd

revenge counter needs to no longer copy all conditions on targets hit by full counter but gains 1 more second of resistance (since full counters CD would be pretty much doubled.)

That's it. Simple shit people

SB is supposed to be a pain to kill nerfing it's tankablity to much kills the spec

[Caedmon.6798]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@StickerHappy.8052 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Spellbreaker is currently broken. Resistance needs to be shaved and mobility and evade from great sword needs to be nerfed.

If we're going to advocate for spellbreaker nerf, maybe focus on the spellbreaker mechanics instead of advocating changes that hit every warrior build that chooses to use Greatsword.

Its overpowered. It gives way too much defense. The ability to escape at your leisure? Check! And some evade frames? Check! This is part of the problem with warrior in general. That they can simply escape and heal up and reset the fight.

a 450 range .75 second evade is for escaping and fight resetting?

Whirlwind plus Rush is the combo, which is hardly OP compared to Thieves and Mesmers...

Well, mesmer and thieves are not as sturdy as warrior too. So can you imagine that putting it all together in 1 class? Resistance? Check. Stability? Check. Immunes? Check. Passive Healing? Check. Mobility? Check.

Mesmer/thief = Broken Teleport spots? Check. Broken stealth mechanics? Check. Insane Mobility? Check. Insane Burst capability? Check. Immunes? Check.Even the so called "most balanced" holosmith = huge aoe? check. big damage? check. insane mobility? check. stealth? check. on demand stab? check. auto proc immune? check. tons of cc? check

Spellbreaker sure is strong, but people argue in ways i don't understand. it's like other classes aren't loaded with broken stuff at all..

Those are entirely different issues. Yes other classes are broken (the whole game is) but this thread is about warrior. And yea warrior mobility needs a nerfing.

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it.

Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't

have

all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable.

From 2012 "Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on 1 Speed, 2 Strength, 3 Toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become. "

"Warriors are masters of martial skills. They're versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies"

You dont get what warrior is supposed to be,do you ?

[Aza.2105]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@StickerHappy.8052 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Spellbreaker is currently broken. Resistance needs to be shaved and mobility and evade from great sword needs to be nerfed.

If we're going to advocate for spellbreaker nerf, maybe focus on the spellbreaker mechanics instead of advocating changes that hit every warrior build that chooses to use Greatsword.

Its overpowered. It gives way too much defense. The ability to escape at your leisure? Check! And some evade frames? Check! This is part of the problem with warrior in general. That they can simply escape and heal up and reset the fight.

a 450 range .75 second evade is for escaping and fight resetting?

Whirlwind plus Rush is the combo, which is hardly OP compared to Thieves and Mesmers...

Well, mesmer and thieves are not as sturdy as warrior too. So can you imagine that putting it all together in 1 class? Resistance? Check. Stability? Check. Immunes? Check. Passive Healing? Check. Mobility? Check.

Mesmer/thief = Broken Teleport spots? Check. Broken stealth mechanics? Check. Insane Mobility? Check. Insane Burst capability? Check. Immunes? Check.Even the so called "most balanced" holosmith = huge aoe? check. big damage? check. insane mobility? check. stealth? check. on demand stab? check. auto proc immune? check. tons of cc? check

Spellbreaker sure is strong, but people argue in ways i don't understand. it's like other classes aren't loaded with broken stuff at all..

Those are entirely different issues. Yes other classes are broken (the whole game is) but this thread is about warrior. And yea warrior mobility needs a nerfing.

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it.

Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't

have

all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable.

From 2012 "Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on 1 Speed, 2 Strength, 3 Toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become. "

"Warriors are masters of martial skills. They're versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies"

You dont get what warrior is supposed to be,do you ?

Anet doesn't get it you mean. Because now warrior as well as other classes have crossed boundaries that they shouldn't of according to their original philosophy. In fact, in 2012 Anet stated directly that warrior is suppose to have limited condition removal capability as well as have no means to remove enemy boons so they need raw force to break through them. Ask your self is it like that now? Of course not.

[ArthurDent.9538]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@StickerHappy.8052 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Spellbreaker is currently broken. Resistance needs to be shaved and mobility and evade from great sword needs to be nerfed.

If we're going to advocate for spellbreaker nerf, maybe focus on the spellbreaker mechanics instead of advocating changes that hit every warrior build that chooses to use Greatsword.

Its overpowered. It gives way too much defense. The ability to escape at your leisure? Check! And some evade frames? Check! This is part of the problem with warrior in general. That they can simply escape and heal up and reset the fight.

a 450 range .75 second evade is for escaping and fight resetting?

Whirlwind plus Rush is the combo, which is hardly OP compared to Thieves and Mesmers...

Well, mesmer and thieves are not as sturdy as warrior too. So can you imagine that putting it all together in 1 class? Resistance? Check. Stability? Check. Immunes? Check. Passive Healing? Check. Mobility? Check.

Mesmer/thief = Broken Teleport spots? Check. Broken stealth mechanics? Check. Insane Mobility? Check. Insane Burst capability? Check. Immunes? Check.Even the so called "most balanced" holosmith = huge aoe? check. big damage? check. insane mobility? check. stealth? check. on demand stab? check. auto proc immune? check. tons of cc? check

Spellbreaker sure is strong, but people argue in ways i don't understand. it's like other classes aren't loaded with broken stuff at all..

Those are entirely different issues. Yes other classes are broken (the whole game is) but this thread is about warrior. And yea warrior mobility needs a nerfing.

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it.

Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't

have

all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable.

From 2012 "Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on 1 Speed, 2 Strength, 3 Toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become. "

"Warriors are masters of martial skills. They're versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies"

You dont get what warrior is supposed to be,do you ?

Anet doesn't get it you mean. Because now warrior as well as other classes have crossed boundaries that they shouldn't of according to their original philosophy. In fact, in 2012 Anet stated directly that warrior is suppose to have limited condition removal capability as well as have no means to remove enemy boons so they need raw force to break through them. Ask your self is it like that now? Of course not.

But warrior doesn't remove many condis, they just completely ignore them.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Maybe we're looking at it the wrong way. Instead of nerfing SB strong points, why not emphasize on their weak points? If there's any.

[crewthief.8649]

With the amount of boon corrupt that a Scourge can dish out, it really doesn't make a ton of difference in the long run. A properly played Scourge can absolutely melt a Spell Breaker.

[crewthief.8649]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@StickerHappy.8052 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Spellbreaker is currently broken. Resistance needs to be shaved and mobility and evade from great sword needs to be nerfed.

If we're going to advocate for spellbreaker nerf, maybe focus on the spellbreaker mechanics instead of advocating changes that hit every warrior build that chooses to use Greatsword.

Its overpowered. It gives way too much defense. The ability to escape at your leisure? Check! And some evade frames? Check! This is part of the problem with warrior in general. That they can simply escape and heal up and reset the fight.

a 450 range .75 second evade is for escaping and fight resetting?

Whirlwind plus Rush is the combo, which is hardly OP compared to Thieves and Mesmers...

Well, mesmer and thieves are not as sturdy as warrior too. So can you imagine that putting it all together in 1 class? Resistance? Check. Stability? Check. Immunes? Check. Passive Healing? Check. Mobility? Check.

Mesmer/thief = Broken Teleport spots? Check. Broken stealth mechanics? Check. Insane Mobility? Check. Insane Burst capability? Check. Immunes? Check.Even the so called "most balanced" holosmith = huge aoe? check. big damage? check. insane mobility? check. stealth? check. on demand stab? check. auto proc immune? check. tons of cc? check

Spellbreaker sure is strong, but people argue in ways i don't understand. it's like other classes aren't loaded with broken stuff at all..

Those are entirely different issues. Yes other classes are broken (the whole game is) but this thread is about warrior. And yea warrior mobility needs a nerfing.

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it.

Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't

have

all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable.

From 2012 "Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on 1 Speed, 2 Strength, 3 Toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become. "

"Warriors are masters of martial skills. They're versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies"

You dont get what warrior is supposed to be,do you ?

Anet doesn't get it you mean. Because now warrior as well as other classes have crossed boundaries that they shouldn't of according to their original philosophy. In fact, in 2012 Anet stated directly that warrior is suppose to have limited condition removal capability as well as have no means to remove enemy boons so they need raw force to break through them. Ask your self is it like that now? Of course not.

Many, many things have changed since then (I know that was partly your point). Heck, Anet said they'd not create a tier of gear beyond exotic... and then they released ascended. I have difficulty imagining how a Warrior could possibly sustain itself for any length of time (in melee, mind you) without a heck of a lot of resistance. They lack the condition clear of a class such as Guardian, lack the evasion ability and stealth of a class such as Thief, lack the misdirection of a class such as Mesmer... it seems sort of a requirement, at this point. This is what power creep looks like. As offense increases in its' efficiency, there must also be an increase in defense to compensate, otherwise we're all at respawn 10 seconds into a fight.

[musu.9205]

@crewthief.8649 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@StickerHappy.8052 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Spellbreaker is currently broken. Resistance needs to be shaved and mobility and evade from great sword needs to be nerfed.

If we're going to advocate for spellbreaker nerf, maybe focus on the spellbreaker mechanics instead of advocating changes that hit every warrior build that chooses to use Greatsword.

Its overpowered. It gives way too much defense. The ability to escape at your leisure? Check! And some evade frames? Check! This is part of the problem with warrior in general. That they can simply escape and heal up and reset the fight.

a 450 range .75 second evade is for escaping and fight resetting?

Whirlwind plus Rush is the combo, which is hardly OP compared to Thieves and Mesmers...

Well, mesmer and thieves are not as sturdy as warrior too. So can you imagine that putting it all together in 1 class? Resistance? Check. Stability? Check. Immunes? Check. Passive Healing? Check. Mobility? Check.

Mesmer/thief = Broken Teleport spots? Check. Broken stealth mechanics? Check. Insane Mobility? Check. Insane Burst capability? Check. Immunes? Check.Even the so called "most balanced" holosmith = huge aoe? check. big damage? check. insane mobility? check. stealth? check. on demand stab? check. auto proc immune? check. tons of cc? check

Spellbreaker sure is strong, but people argue in ways i don't understand. it's like other classes aren't loaded with broken stuff at all..

Those are entirely different issues. Yes other classes are broken (the whole game is) but this thread is about warrior. And yea warrior mobility needs a nerfing.

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it.

Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't

have

all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable.

From 2012 "Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on 1 Speed, 2 Strength, 3 Toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become. "

"Warriors are masters of martial skills. They're versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies"

You dont get what warrior is supposed to be,do you ?

Anet doesn't get it you mean. Because now warrior as well as other classes have crossed boundaries that they shouldn't of according to their original philosophy. In fact, in 2012 Anet stated directly that warrior is suppose to have limited condition removal capability as well as have no means to remove enemy boons so they need raw force to break through them. Ask your self is it like that now? Of course not.

Many, many things have changed since then (I know that was partly your point). Heck, Anet said they'd not create a tier of gear beyond exotic... and then they released ascended. I have difficulty imagining how a Warrior could possibly sustain itself for any length of time (in melee, mind you) without a heck of a lot of resistance. They lack the condition clear of a class such as Guardian, lack the evasion ability and stealth of a class such as Thief, lack the misdirection of a class such as Mesmer... it seems sort of a requirement, at this point. This is what power creep looks like. As offense increases in its' efficiency, there must also be an increase in defense to compensate, otherwise we're all at respawn 10 seconds into a fight.

guard defense are all on 20s + cd . they can't cycle through like full counter . thief can be a bit ridiculous but they don't have anything else . misdirection of mes , that is so 2012 , maybe its time for you to create a mes and how easy to target real one .

the point is yeah every single class gained more sustain those days . but none is on bar with spellbreaker level and the difference is a lot .and none should have such sustain . and worse in war case , they have dmg build in full counter + condi copy .and they can do dmg while they are basically untouchable .

[crewthief.8649]

@musu.9205 said:

@crewthief.8649 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@StickerHappy.8052 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Spellbreaker is currently broken. Resistance needs to be shaved and mobility and evade from great sword needs to be nerfed.

If we're going to advocate for spellbreaker nerf, maybe focus on the spellbreaker mechanics instead of advocating changes that hit every warrior build that chooses to use Greatsword.

Its overpowered. It gives way too much defense. The ability to escape at your leisure? Check! And some evade frames? Check! This is part of the problem with warrior in general. That they can simply escape and heal up and reset the fight.

a 450 range .75 second evade is for escaping and fight resetting?

Whirlwind plus Rush is the combo, which is hardly OP compared to Thieves and Mesmers...

Well, mesmer and thieves are not as sturdy as warrior too. So can you imagine that putting it all together in 1 class? Resistance? Check. Stability? Check. Immunes? Check. Passive Healing? Check. Mobility? Check.

Mesmer/thief = Broken Teleport spots? Check. Broken stealth mechanics? Check. Insane Mobility? Check. Insane Burst capability? Check. Immunes? Check.Even the so called "most balanced" holosmith = huge aoe? check. big damage? check. insane mobility? check. stealth? check. on demand stab? check. auto proc immune? check. tons of cc? check

Spellbreaker sure is strong, but people argue in ways i don't understand. it's like other classes aren't loaded with broken stuff at all..

Those are entirely different issues. Yes other classes are broken (the whole game is) but this thread is about warrior. And yea warrior mobility needs a nerfing.

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it.

Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't

have

all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable.

From 2012 "Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on 1 Speed, 2 Strength, 3 Toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become. "

"Warriors are masters of martial skills. They're versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies"

You dont get what warrior is supposed to be,do you ?

Anet doesn't get it you mean. Because now warrior as well as other classes have crossed boundaries that they shouldn't of according to their original philosophy. In fact, in 2012 Anet stated directly that warrior is suppose to have limited condition removal capability as well as have no means to remove enemy boons so they need raw force to break through them. Ask your self is it like that now? Of course not.

Many, many things have changed since then (I know that was partly your point). Heck, Anet said they'd not create a tier of gear beyond exotic... and then they released ascended. I have difficulty imagining how a Warrior could possibly sustain itself for any length of time (in melee, mind you) without a heck of a lot of resistance. They lack the condition clear of a class such as Guardian, lack the evasion ability and stealth of a class such as Thief, lack the misdirection of a class such as Mesmer... it seems sort of a requirement, at this point. This is what power creep looks like. As offense increases in its' efficiency, there must also be an increase in defense to compensate, otherwise we're all at respawn 10 seconds into a fight.

guard defense are all on 20s + cd . they can't cycle through like full counter . thief can be a bit ridiculous but they don't have anything else . misdirection of mes , that is so 2012 , maybe its time for you to create a mes and how easy to target real one .

the point is yeah every single class gained more sustain those days . but none is on bar with spellbreaker level and the difference is a lot .and none should have such sustain . and worse in war case , they have dmg build in full counter + condi copy .and they can do dmg while they are basically untouchable .

I think you missed my point, those other classes possess means of mitigating and avoiding condi damage that differs from a Warrior, who's expected to engage at melee range probably more often than any other class. I do believe FC needs (probably) an adjustment to it's cool down. I honestly don't think SB is way off, though, especially after some other elite specs get buffed. The misdirection comment was less about people confusing the real one with clones, and more about the play style of players that end up being successful on that class. And misdirection is absolutely a 100% valid tactic (my Mesmer was created in 2012, so I don't need to create one).

I disagree with your last point. There isn't a whole heck of a lot of separation between the sustain of an SB and the sustain of an FB. As I said, SB probably does need an adjustment, but this is not nearly as dire as the chicken littles in this forum would have you believe.

[serenity.4712]

As a warrior main i would agree, SBs are too strong right now. Full counter should have a longer cd so it would take skill when to use it and not just spam it.

On the other hand scourge eat spellbreakers and are overpowered too. I literally picked up the class today, just spammed stuff and killed pretty much everyone, also beating most of the people in 1v1 arenas without even knowing what all of my skills do. Hopefully we get a proper balance patch next week otherwise we're looking at another clownfiesta season...

[musu.9205]

@crewthief.8649 said:

@musu.9205 said:

@crewthief.8649 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@StickerHappy.8052 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Spellbreaker is currently broken. Resistance needs to be shaved and mobility and evade from great sword needs to be nerfed.

If we're going to advocate for spellbreaker nerf, maybe focus on the spellbreaker mechanics instead of advocating changes that hit every warrior build that chooses to use Greatsword.

Its overpowered. It gives way too much defense. The ability to escape at your leisure? Check! And some evade frames? Check! This is part of the problem with warrior in general. That they can simply escape and heal up and reset the fight.

a 450 range .75 second evade is for escaping and fight resetting?

Whirlwind plus Rush is the combo, which is hardly OP compared to Thieves and Mesmers...

Well, mesmer and thieves are not as sturdy as warrior too. So can you imagine that putting it all together in 1 class? Resistance? Check. Stability? Check. Immunes? Check. Passive Healing? Check. Mobility? Check.

Mesmer/thief = Broken Teleport spots? Check. Broken stealth mechanics? Check. Insane Mobility? Check. Insane Burst capability? Check. Immunes? Check.Even the so called "most balanced" holosmith = huge aoe? check. big damage? check. insane mobility? check. stealth? check. on demand stab? check. auto proc immune? check. tons of cc? check

Spellbreaker sure is strong, but people argue in ways i don't understand. it's like other classes aren't loaded with broken stuff at all..

Those are entirely different issues. Yes other classes are broken (the whole game is) but this thread is about warrior. And yea warrior mobility needs a nerfing.

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it.

Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't

have

all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable.

From 2012 "Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on 1 Speed, 2 Strength, 3 Toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become. "

"Warriors are masters of martial skills. They're versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies"

You dont get what warrior is supposed to be,do you ?

Anet doesn't get it you mean. Because now warrior as well as other classes have crossed boundaries that they shouldn't of according to their original philosophy. In fact, in 2012 Anet stated directly that warrior is suppose to have limited condition removal capability as well as have no means to remove enemy boons so they need raw force to break through them. Ask your self is it like that now? Of course not.

Many, many things have changed since then (I know that was partly your point). Heck, Anet said they'd not create a tier of gear beyond exotic... and then they released ascended. I have difficulty imagining how a Warrior could possibly sustain itself for any length of time (in melee, mind you) without a heck of a lot of resistance. They lack the condition clear of a class such as Guardian, lack the evasion ability and stealth of a class such as Thief, lack the misdirection of a class such as Mesmer... it seems sort of a requirement, at this point. This is what power creep looks like. As offense increases in its' efficiency, there must also be an increase in defense to compensate, otherwise we're all at respawn 10 seconds into a fight.

guard defense are all on 20s + cd . they can't cycle through like full counter . thief can be a bit ridiculous but they don't have anything else . misdirection of mes , that is so 2012 , maybe its time for you to create a mes and how easy to target real one .

the point is yeah every single class gained more sustain those days . but none is on bar with spellbreaker level and the difference is a lot .and none should have such sustain . and worse in war case , they have dmg build in full counter + condi copy .and they can do dmg while they are basically untouchable .

I think you missed my point, those other classes possess means of mitigating and avoiding condi damage that differs from a Warrior, who's expected to engage at melee range probably more often than any other class. I do believe FC needs (probably) an adjustment to it's cool down. I honestly don't think SB is way off, though, especially after some other elite specs get buffed. The misdirection comment was less about people confusing the real one with clones, and more about the play style of players that end up being successful on that class. And misdirection is absolutely a 100% valid tactic (my Mesmer was created in 2012, so I don't need to create one).

I disagree with your last point. There isn't a whole heck of a lot of separation between the sustain of an SB and the sustain of an FB. As I said, SB probably does need an adjustment, but this is not nearly as dire as the chicken littles in this forum would have you believe.

mes needs melee to do full dmg but they have better ranged option worse gap close skill than a war . thief has to melee , weaver has to melee .they all have less gap close option or worse ones than war . ele mainly use boon to mitigating dmg , with more boon corruption and removal their sustain is already weaker than before .its funny that's a argument , old cele ele was melee range too , and most people would agree it was broken . and we had hammer bow , shoutbow etc , even at their peak time , they are not as strong as spellbreaker right now . and hambow was op backthen .

there are many stuff can be nerfed to mid ground by number , like passive healing , like resistance uptime or those auto proc icd . idk why every war who tried to defend this always talked like they have to be op or they will be trash .

wars do need better sustain than others .but right now its too much .and what playstyle of mes you are talking about ?mes has one single one playstyle that worked /works in pvp from start to chrono to mirage(lets ignore that stupid op bunker chrono ) , that's shatter. you are just making up words now .there is nothing about misdirection in a shatter build , you cc target you cast burst combo . done .FC needs either 15s cd or it should not do so much in one button .

firebrand can not do dmg while they are using their defense option . and those tomes have fairly long cd . bunker firebrand may need to be nerfed as well if scourge and spellbreaker get nerfed . but hey all those players jump in and defend their classes , then what's the start of balance , since war complain scourge op u cant nerf me first , scourge complain firebrand is op you cant nerf me first .the point is they all need to be nerfed to a degree . but spellbreaker certainly stand out for many people .and they have reasons .

[crewthief.8649]

@musu.9205 said:

@crewthief.8649 said:

@musu.9205 said:

@crewthief.8649 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@StickerHappy.8052 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Aza.2105 said:Spellbreaker is currently broken. Resistance needs to be shaved and mobility and evade from great sword needs to be nerfed.

If we're going to advocate for spellbreaker nerf, maybe focus on the spellbreaker mechanics instead of advocating changes that hit every warrior build that chooses to use Greatsword.

Its overpowered. It gives way too much defense. The ability to escape at your leisure? Check! And some evade frames? Check! This is part of the problem with warrior in general. That they can simply escape and heal up and reset the fight.

a 450 range .75 second evade is for escaping and fight resetting?

Whirlwind plus Rush is the combo, which is hardly OP compared to Thieves and Mesmers...

Well, mesmer and thieves are not as sturdy as warrior too. So can you imagine that putting it all together in 1 class? Resistance? Check. Stability? Check. Immunes? Check. Passive Healing? Check. Mobility? Check.

Mesmer/thief = Broken Teleport spots? Check. Broken stealth mechanics? Check. Insane Mobility? Check. Insane Burst capability? Check. Immunes? Check.Even the so called "most balanced" holosmith = huge aoe? check. big damage? check. insane mobility? check. stealth? check. on demand stab? check. auto proc immune? check. tons of cc? check

Spellbreaker sure is strong, but people argue in ways i don't understand. it's like other classes aren't loaded with broken stuff at all..

Those are entirely different issues. Yes other classes are broken (the whole game is) but this thread is about warrior. And yea warrior mobility needs a nerfing.

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it.

Not necessarily all three, but we're saying they shouldn't

have

all three. Having two of the three would be acceptable.

From 2012 "Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on 1 Speed, 2 Strength, 3 Toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become. "

"Warriors are masters of martial skills. They're versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies"

You dont get what warrior is supposed to be,do you ?

Anet doesn't get it you mean. Because now warrior as well as other classes have crossed boundaries that they shouldn't of according to their original philosophy. In fact, in 2012 Anet stated directly that warrior is suppose to have limited condition removal capability as well as have no means to remove enemy boons so they need raw force to break through them. Ask your self is it like that now? Of course not.

Many, many things have changed since then (I know that was partly your point). Heck, Anet said they'd not create a tier of gear beyond exotic... and then they released ascended. I have difficulty imagining how a Warrior could possibly sustain itself for any length of time (in melee, mind you) without a heck of a lot of resistance. They lack the condition clear of a class such as Guardian, lack the evasion ability and stealth of a class such as Thief, lack the misdirection of a class such as Mesmer... it seems sort of a requirement, at this point. This is what power creep looks like. As offense increases in its' efficiency, there must also be an increase in defense to compensate, otherwise we're all at respawn 10 seconds into a fight.

guard defense are all on 20s + cd . they can't cycle through like full counter . thief can be a bit ridiculous but they don't have anything else . misdirection of mes , that is so 2012 , maybe its time for you to create a mes and how easy to target real one .

the point is yeah every single class gained more sustain those days . but none is on bar with spellbreaker level and the difference is a lot .and none should have such sustain . and worse in war case , they have dmg build in full counter + condi copy .and they can do dmg while they are basically untouchable .

I think you missed my point, those other classes possess means of mitigating and avoiding condi damage that differs from a Warrior, who's expected to engage at melee range probably more often than any other class. I do believe FC needs (probably) an adjustment to it's cool down. I honestly don't think SB is way off, though, especially after some other elite specs get buffed. The misdirection comment was less about people confusing the real one with clones, and more about the play style of players that end up being successful on that class. And misdirection is absolutely a 100% valid tactic (my Mesmer was created in 2012, so I don't need to create one).

I disagree with your last point. There isn't a whole heck of a lot of separation between the sustain of an SB and the sustain of an FB. As I said, SB probably does need an adjustment, but this is not nearly as dire as the chicken littles in this forum would have you believe.

mes needs melee to do full dmg but they have better ranged option worse gap close skill than a war . thief has to melee , weaver has to melee .they all have less gap close option or worse ones than war . ele mainly use boon to mitigating dmg , with more boon corruption and removal their sustain is already weaker than before .its funny that's a argument , old cele ele was melee range too , and most people would agree it was broken . and we had hammer bow , shoutbow etc , even at their peak time , they are not as strong as spellbreaker right now . and hambow was op backthen .

there are many stuff can be nerfed to mid ground by number , like passive healing , like resistance uptime or those auto proc icd . idk why every war who tried to defend this always talked like they have to be op or they will be trash .

wars do need better sustain than others .but right now its too much .and what playstyle of mes you are talking about ?mes has one single one playstyle that worked /works in pvp from start to chrono to mirage(lets ignore that stupid op bunker chrono ) , that's shatter. you are just making up words now .there is nothing about misdirection in a shatter build , you cc target you cast burst combo . done .FC needs either 15s cd or it should not do so much in one button .

firebrand can not do dmg while they are using their defense option . and those tomes have fairly long cd . bunker firebrand may need to be nerfed as well if scourge and spellbreaker get nerfed . but hey all those players jump in and defend their classes , then what's the start of balance , since war complain scourge op u cant nerf me first , scourge complain firebrand is op you cant nerf me first .the point is they all need to be nerfed to a degree . but spellbreaker certainly stand out for many people .and they have reasons .

I'm not making up a word. Misdirection is a word, I assure you. I'm not going to explain what I mean, because I have doubts as to whether or not you'll understand. I stated FC needed an adjustment, so i'm not sure why you're keeping this up. I just said that I don't think it's as far off as some in this forum would suggest.

[Crinn.7864]

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:SB's access to resistance is not the problem. The problem is how powerful resistance is as a boon. It needs to be nerfed, hard. It should not be providing full immunity from all conditions. At best it should probide 100% damage reduction from conditions, but not ignore the secondary effects. but even that is too strong honestly.

that removed the purpose of feather foot grace, its resistance is there to remove movement impairing effects, if resist does not do this then.... it becomes... useless

If it's purpose was only to give immunity to movment impairment, then it would work like Ranger's Dolyak stance does, and only give immunity to said effects.

Resistance means that you can't:Blind themWeaken themCripple themImmobilize themFear themTaunt themChill them

Resistance also makes Vulnerability not apply it's benefits.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Kaga.7629 said:From the very first beta preview weekend I've been saying it, people are going to complain about full counter. First week , back when deadeyes could still glitch-snipe from stealth and Scourges were still at 100% dumbness people were complaining about full counter. Now that FIRST PASS balance is out, scourges are still 75% of what they were, and Full counter now legit hits like a wet noodle.

First balance pass isn't out. Last patch was a bugfix. And it doesn't hit like a wet noodle, unless you're comparing against other SB's.

@Kaga.7629 said:Also do remember that warriors in general have received a ton of nerfs ALREADY before just before PoF hit, including Defy pain being cut in half and all cleanse from specialisation bursts becoming lvl1 instead of 3 ( for cleansing purposes, that's a straight up 66% nerf on the cleanse). Which pretty much made the previous spec no longer worth it unless you pve.

The defy pain change wasn't a nerf so much as "Combat stopping for 4 seconds is really dumb while the warrior vents his frustration."

@Kaga.7629 said:There's a very big difference between lynchmobbing warriors back to the stone age YET AGAIN and doing actual, small iterations changes to get things just right. And already by "bug fixing" Full counter damage 50% of the immediate salt is gone. I dont think they need to push the recharge on FC above the 8 sec there was in beta.prev . My money would be more on a 7.5sec recharge if anything , just a nudge higher than what's the current number ( which is 6.75 sec).

Have you played any classes other than warrior? I'm not talking about scourge, btw.

We don't all have tons of blocks, evades, mobility, CC, good passive healing, and immunity stacked into one. Right now SB is all that and a bag of chips! On the upper divisions, I've seen SB's only go down with 3 people focusing on them, and they were dealing out a healthy dose of damage in return. No class has that kind of tankability/damage/healing rolled into one. Even dragonhunter at its most powerful could take maybe 2 poorly skilled people.

[OriOri.8724]

@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:SB's access to resistance is not the problem. The problem is how powerful resistance is as a boon. It needs to be nerfed, hard. It should not be providing full immunity from all conditions. At best it should probide 100% damage reduction from conditions, but not ignore the secondary effects. but even that is too strong honestly.

that removed the purpose of feather foot grace, its resistance is there to remove movement impairing effects, if resist does not do this then.... it becomes... useless

That's not even the purpose, like @Crinn.7864 pointed out. And even if this was the purpose of the trait, its easy enough to change it to just cleanse those conditions instead of giving resistance were resistance to be nerfed.

[crewthief.8649]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Kaga.7629 said:From the very first beta preview weekend I've been saying it, people are going to complain about full counter. First week , back when deadeyes could still glitch-snipe from stealth and Scourges were still at 100% dumbness people were complaining about full counter. Now that

FIRST PASS

balance is out, scourges are still 75% of what they were, and Full counter now legit hits like a wet noodle.

First balance pass isn't out. Last patch was a bugfix. And it doesn't hit like a wet noodle, unless you're comparing against other SB's.

@Kaga.7629 said:Also do remember that warriors in general have received a ton of nerfs ALREADY before just before PoF hit, including Defy pain being cut in half and all cleanse from specialisation bursts becoming lvl1 instead of 3 ( for cleansing purposes, that's a straight up 66% nerf on the cleanse). Which pretty much made the previous spec no longer worth it unless you pve.

The defy pain change wasn't a nerf so much as "Combat stopping for 4 seconds is really kitten while the warrior vents his frustration."

@Kaga.7629 said:There's a very big difference between lynchmobbing warriors back to the stone age YET AGAIN and doing actual, small iterations changes to get things just right. And already by "bug fixing" Full counter damage 50% of the immediate salt is gone. I dont think they need to push the recharge on FC above the 8 sec there was in beta.prev . My money would be more on a 7.5sec recharge if anything , just a nudge higher than what's the current number ( which is 6.75 sec).

Have you played any classes other than warrior? I'm not talking about scourge, btw.

We don't all have tons of blocks, evades, mobility, CC, good passive healing, and immunity stacked into one. Right now SB is all that and a bag of chips! On the upper divisions, I've seen SB's only go down with 3 people focusing on them, and they were dealing out a healthy dose of damage in return. No class has that kind of tankability/damage/healing rolled into one. Even dragonhunter at its most powerful could take maybe 2 poorly skilled people.

I think you're misrepresenting how strong DHs were at one point in time. I know you weren't addressing me with your post, but I do agree that SB needs some adjustment, i'm just not certain there's a need for such hyperbole. The spec will be adjusted, you and I both know that.

[otto.5684]

Honestly, I think resistance should be removed. I am not advocating for condi nuke either, but resistance is a terrible solution.

[Vagrant.7206]

@crewthief.8649 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Kaga.7629 said:From the very first beta preview weekend I've been saying it, people are going to complain about full counter. First week , back when deadeyes could still glitch-snipe from stealth and Scourges were still at 100% dumbness people were complaining about full counter. Now that

FIRST PASS

balance is out, scourges are still 75% of what they were, and Full counter now legit hits like a wet noodle.

First balance pass isn't out. Last patch was a bugfix. And it doesn't hit like a wet noodle, unless you're comparing against other SB's.

@Kaga.7629 said:Also do remember that warriors in general have received a ton of nerfs ALREADY before just before PoF hit, including Defy pain being cut in half and all cleanse from specialisation bursts becoming lvl1 instead of 3 ( for cleansing purposes, that's a straight up 66% nerf on the cleanse). Which pretty much made the previous spec no longer worth it unless you pve.

The defy pain change wasn't a nerf so much as "Combat stopping for 4 seconds is really kitten while the warrior vents his frustration."

@Kaga.7629 said:There's a very big difference between lynchmobbing warriors back to the stone age YET AGAIN and doing actual, small iterations changes to get things just right. And already by "bug fixing" Full counter damage 50% of the immediate salt is gone. I dont think they need to push the recharge on FC above the 8 sec there was in beta.prev . My money would be more on a 7.5sec recharge if anything , just a nudge higher than what's the current number ( which is 6.75 sec).

Have you played any classes other than warrior? I'm not talking about scourge, btw.

We don't all have tons of blocks, evades, mobility, CC, good passive healing, and immunity stacked into one. Right now SB is all that and a bag of chips! On the upper divisions, I've seen SB's only go down with 3 people focusing on them, and they were dealing out a healthy dose of damage in return. No class has that kind of tankability/damage/healing rolled into one. Even dragonhunter at its most powerful could take maybe 2 poorly skilled people.

I think you're misrepresenting how strong DHs were at one point in time. I know you weren't addressing me with your post, but I do agree that SB needs some adjustment, i'm just not certain there's a need for such hyperbole. The spec will be adjusted, you and I both know that.

I'm actually not being hyperbolic -- I've seen highly skilled warriors tank three people. Rangers in particular seem vulnerable to SB, and I've seen an SB tank three rangers focusing him... and win against all three. The only time I've seen SB's get taken down by individual players were scourges (which are broken in a different way) or more-skilled SB's. I've been able to do it a few times as a holosmith, but only if I'm kiting them like CRAZY. I cannot hold a point against an SB to save my life. And when I encounter an SB by myself... I just try to pull him off the point so a teammate can cap or so that he can't cap. I can't do too much else by myself.

Most of the time I see SB's, they're 1v2'ing and holding their own. If there's a ranger though, usually the ranger gets killed.

[hurrado.2346]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Okay, so. We want Warrior mobility, defenses and offenses nerfed. Got it.

Only then will you be strong and powerful like necro!

[Crossaber.8934]

@otto.5684 said:Honestly, I think resistance should be removed. I am not advocating for condi nuke either, but resistance is a terrible solution.

Agree resistance is a bad solution to condi spam meta. Until Anet figure out how to properly balance condi spam, resistance is needed.