Cynz.9437

If thieves get better survival tools, sure. But they won't. And you know it. It is always the same, people complain about stealth/mobility on thieves but don't bother to find out why thieves have to play like this (namely having no alternative because THIS VERY community hated it when thieves could actually fight w/o relying on stealth and cried for nerfs 24/7).

Fix'd.

I logged in just to upvote this post. You, sir/mam made my day 😄

Great gamemode for chilling around after hard work day 😄

Welcome to p2w business mode: we add mechanic (reveal) that counters certain class mechanic (stealth -> stealth attacks/survival traits) then we add a new xpac with new espec that counters that mechanic (shadow meld) then we add another espec to add even more access to the first mechanic (yes, i know it is confusing and yes this is how flippin power creep works). Rinse and repeat. All for the sake of sales. In the end it will be like ASP said: people will cry rivers on forums that thief ran away and don't bother to think why thief chose to do so (due to lack of survival tools and stupid amount of counters, especially in wvw, which simply doesn't allow the class to stay in fights for long time like it is for other classes). Honestly, they should just change thief class description: hello, you are designated free loot bag, do not dare to run away (it will make zerglings mad), lie down and let other farm you. Thanks.

Unpopular (and very biased) opinion here: - i like to fight thieves/mes because it is fun and engaging most of the time and i don't have to play floor is lava mini game with them - i don't like to fight classes with a lot of aoe and/or certain amount of (semi passive) sustain so necros, eles (don't hate me here, i am well aware where eles stand most of the time in meta but never the less) and guards duhh But as other said, it all heavily depends on build.

Given how wvw is flooded with guards and necros for like... entirety of GW2 existence i think those 2 classes should get massive nerfs and some kind of "revealed" that disables their skills and not thieves that are pigeonholed into ganking some zerg uplevel struggler and afking in some obscure corner of the keep. You think suggestion is absurd? It is more sound that everything non-thief players wrote here. Numbers speak for themselves.

I disagree. Rez thief used to be a thing for example. With some imagination one can alter stealth/reveal to something supporty and we do have plenty of it (stealth that is). Don't forget the deadly banana peel xD @Sind: where are you =.= You claimed we would get GS 😛

Druid would like to disagree.

Because fighting guard takes time, even if you fight a build that you can win against. Time is precious in ranked. In current role thief should be helping teammates/cap/decap and not play a dueler vs a class that they are most likely to lose against in many cases (given meta builds). The only time i would duel a guard on point if point belong to my team or is decapped and i know help is coming or match is so close and about to end that denying few points by just being a body on point will give us victory. OR i am in low rank and i know enemy is just that bad so can fight can be finished quickly. That is a lot of IFs. Also the fact that you have to ask just shows how much you know about pvp and roamer role.

Ah again this beating the dead horse. We did have 5v5 queue, we have ATs now. Neither are very popular. This is fact. Majority did and still rather play in soloQ simply because majority doesn't want/can't form groups for such content due to various reasons. Asking to return 5v5 is one thing, asking to remove soloq all together is different all together. Aren't you bit selfish there? All this development should be then focused for tiny group of wintraders then? Nice one. Because frankly, no offense here, but it would be very delusional to believe that majority of players would suddenly form groups. If anything ranked would be dead for most part. Even in LoL most people play in soloq not 5v5. "The "shy" players will adapt just like they do for raids and fractals when they do pve. " Yeah, rrright. I remember the time when pvp was more active and people formed groups for tourney and 5v5 queues. Unless you are in top 20 or something and passed tests (duels and nearly job like interview, not to mention give up your RL for team) you wouldn't get into any team no matter how bad those were in first place. This will certainly encourage people to form teams, yuppp. You think that by removing the choice of soloq more will form teams? Wrong. Look at raiding community. You either have 10 man group or you don't raid at all. Guess what? The raiding community is tiny. I have been in fixed raiding groups with fixed times and even then we still had to look for people because real life doesn't adjust itself to the game. Sometimes we had to give up the run all together because we couldn't find enough people. On top of it most complain that new players and even vets that don't have 750 LI or w/e can't even get in raids at all. Do you think it is an accident why Anet moved development to strikes instead? Think again. Removing soloq is hardly a solution for bot problem. Solution is perma banns and balancing classes so botting is not as rewarding. @Multicolorhipster.9751 We already had team queue in the past it was just bunch of wintraders having fun with each other. OP was already proved wrong.

Yes. Please. So they will be forced to rebalance all classes to fit the mode. Thus some classes will lose their aoe (no way it is healthy on small maps) and thieves for example will finally see other roles than glorified +1 pet (and be something like wow rogues maybe). I get a feeling though that some won't like it much 😂

Post your build maybe? Or it doesn't matter for you which build to play as long as you consistently kill a thief? Side note: smart thief would probably avoid 1v1 scenarios vs guard in first place.

But OP claims that he got hit for 6k. From pistol? I am actually surprised. What build did OP and the thief have then?

That is why i said "feels like" 😛. As far as PVE (almost) anything goes in imo 😄

Actually, imo, stealth should have never been granted to any other class but thief (and maybe very limited to mes). Thieves did pay a lot in survival department for having stealth (like still no other class up to date). But this is an issue with about any mechanic. They tried to give everyone everything which ended up pretty broken in the end. I don't think classes were initially designed with having access to certain mechanics at begin. But xpacs are here and they won't change it really so enjoy the ride on the powercreep carousel - ppl complained about stealth, reveal was introduced which made it hard for thieves, DE with reveal removal was introduced, rinse and repeat, all for the sake of sales. Disgusting as it gets but sadly there is still no MMORPG out there with as fun combat system and certain depth of RPG aspect. The original devs made really a fun game, current GW2 just lives off that legacy.

I think video below can answer your question pretty well, OP (courtesy of dani.5680; note their rank as well 😄 ) https://clips.twitch.tv/BetterRamshackleHornetMoreCowbell-Zubyr_sJh4_78Aat

I have done most of the content on zerker DrD raiding build (with some tweaks) because i am too lazy to switch. As you wrote, need to do some resource management and time dodges. True, some encounters can be troublesome or take long and you can't facetank like some other classes BUT we also have that one condi d/d build (spam dodges and d3 forever) that just works really well if everything else fails (yes, it feels like cheating but hey.... w/e works). Lets be honest OP, we didn't pick thief to play a tank (i mean military vehicle here). We picked thief due to its risky nature. I think most of PVE content is fine on thief, raids/fractals are ofc different story.

Exactly this topic has been discussed to extend (with the same quality of evidence, like getting hit 10 times on 1 shield stance kek) on profession forums and was closed by mod. Idk why you revive it here again.

Well you gotta do something while waiting for pvp match xD

I am not going to quote previous posts since they got really long but i would like to answer to some points mentioned above. Regarding stealth not being thief mechanics: yes, other classes have access to it but they do not rely on it to stay alive, they do not have the only viable defensive trait that heavily relies on stealth (acro got heavily nerfed because people didn't like fighting visible thieves, oh the irony) and they don't have highest attacks bound to stealth. When such class exist then i clearly don't know this game. Also, i think no other class should have gotten access to stealth outside of mesmers maybe. The whole homogenization of the classes (let's give everyone everything with especs) is why metas got less and less fun imo. One again, nerfing stealth won't fix anything because thieves got NO ALTERNATIVE and reason for it are members of this very community crying bloody murder every time they got killed by a thief that wasn't even running stealth build. Honestly, it is that simple: (example from RL, right now at my place) say politicians want you to stop driving cars so they increase price of the fuel by 20%. Problem is, you live pretty far from your job and still need to drive there. E-car wouldn't be an alternative because the electricity network at your place cannot handle the load. You cannot move either because there are no free apartments left closer to your job. So now what? Will you stop driving car because fuel got more expensive? No. Because you got no alternative outside of quitting job all together. This is exactly what people ask here - we just want thieves to disappear from game. And if thieves did, what class will be on the line next? Rangers? And then? Why should anyone listen to posters making such entries? This is not constructive. Constructive would be a thread suggesting how to increase thief survival outside of stealth and deal decent damage w/o stealth attacks. I also don't see how thief is supposedly dominating every game mode: in wvw you are only allowed to roam as thief, if you join zerg you get constantly kicked and get harassed on top of it. If anything wvw is dominated by guardians and necros, how about we delete those since we base such suggestions on supposed "domination" of a game mode? In PVE oh wonder guards/necros (depending on mode) and mesmers dominate raids/fractals. Not thieves. You won't find many thieves there nor most groups want one. In pvp you would want 1 thief on team if at all, frankly you would be better off with a rev. 2 thieves on team usually results in massive outcry, reporting and a loss. Nobody wants 2 thieves on team. SO WHERE AND HOW DOES THIEF DOMINATE EVERY GAME MODE IN THIS GAME?

GW2 turns into certain another "MMO" that has something to do with angels and literary plays itself. This video was truly Oscar worthy comedy drama.

So AoE, reveals on demand, towers/sentries/items, tracking pets (especially illusions that completely ignore stealth btw) are not enough counterplay in your opinion? Once again, imagine necro couldn't generate life force as long as they get hit by aoe, have marked debuff or reveal on and get attacked by pets. Take a wild guess how much QQ would be here if it was the case? I do play thief mainly but i also play other classes (was kind of forced to, because thief is just not wanted in most end game gameplay). I do admit however i play mostly necro/mesmer/rev when not on my thief. Why do you assume that you have to win vs thief on any class? For example it was pretty given that thief should not win vs guard by all means given same level of skill in the past. How to wait out thief sitting in stealth w/o blowing all CDs? Abuse terrain. If it is backstab thief, they have to get in melee, so you can force them somewhere where they eat a lot of aoe. No valid path is a thing, especially in WVW. If it is DE, just LoS. Why shouldn't ele/necro use defensive CDs while thief is in fact using resources to stay alive (in this case camping stealth)? I was not aware that specifically for ele and necro blind is such an issue. So thief used shadowstep away? Great, not they have 1 stunbreak and condi cleanse less. You act like necro has access to ONLY ONE condi and ONLY one CC. You know, you can bait CDs. If thief used shs for stunbreak, CC them again and pressure them. If they didn't, murder them. It is honestly, no different than fighting any other class. I can write same scenario fighting any other class the only difference is that they will either sit with second health bar + barrier or invulnerability laughing at you. Or worse, just instagib you from far away before you can even dismount. Great man, you played the class for 2000 hours (most likely afk somewhere at TP). I played the class for way longer, some players even more. Now what? I brought up block as example, can apply to about any defensive mechanic. Stealth also lasts only so long or rather skills that grant it. I can chain up blocks or heals for example on some classes, now what? Last time i checked mesmers could attack people while being invulnerable. You can't just stand there and make jiggly dance in their face. As wvw mechanics i meant sentry/tower/items - none of them disable class mechanics but heavily affect thief survivability and their damage (no stealth, no backstab). Sure, ini comes faster than 60 sec CD, so does life force, so do many other cooldowns. Also, other classes have dodge/blinds/mobility as well. You claim to be expert on thief then i am sure you know if you see thief at full HP going bp+hs then in 2-3 sec bs is incoming. Is it that hard to dodge? Drop Aoe? In my experience, no class should have issues fighting thief in current state. Many simply chose not to build for it. I am not gonna complain getting murdered by thief when running my zerg build on my necro for example. It was my mistake to not stay with the zerg or hug towers. Once again, thieves sitting in stealth for extended period of time is a symptom not the issue. The issue is thieves cannot do anything else to stay alive. Give them GOOD tools for survival outside of stealth and you will see less perma stealth thieves overall. Flat out nerfing stealth, once again won't fix anything because there is no alternative. It has been reported, it also affects other classes just not as much since they don't rely so heavily on 1 attack. Either it is not fixable or there is no interest in fixing it. Ah, sry. I just find it rather (how should i put it) poor to constantly repost references to the same video as supposed argument (when it is nothing else but just blatant advertisement for few views) when it was discussed plenty AND on top of it complain that nobody discusses that video yet again. Also, rich coming from you given your previous post Sooo, you you think it is fine to have say less than 50% access to class mechanic because of visibility? You also forget that there are actually quite few classes that have access to stealth (mes, engi, ranger). I already posted which fix would have been enough (prevent player from gaining stealth off structure) instead of just flat out reducing survival and damage by huge margin for one class that heavily relies on the mechanic that does exactly what people complain about (make player invisible).

How is it little counterplay? What do you think the idea of stealth/invisibility as mechanic in ANY game? Make enemy guess where you are. Play mind games. You are actually complaining that stealth does what it supposed to do? Seriously? I can bring same argument about blocks: there is little counterplay to the skill outside of few unblockables that not every class has access to. Oh and wvw mechanics don't allow players to ignore blocks of the enemy. BTW, PRO TIPP: year old bug that still persist in this game - BACKSTAB DOES NOT CONNECT TO TARGET THAT IS JUMPING. NO NEED CDs for it, just working space bar. So dear Exzen, why am i not seeing any threads/posts from you making shameless advertisements for your youtube videos (like you usually do) and actually asking to fix this bug? You nicely avoid mentioning that gaining stealth also requires quite few CDs and resources. If player has everything on CD when thief went in stealth then problem is not the thief but the player. See example i brought regarding blocks. Blocks for example or invulnerability can be countered way less than stealth. And how should it be reworked? Because everything i read from you so far implies that you just want to remove the mechanic because it forces people to actually think. Oh no. As far as sentry/tower marking goes, better fix would be preventing players from getting stealth via attacking structures and once again give thieves better survival tools than camping stealth. What they did instead is just blatant discrimination of one class.

There is one problem with the suggestion (on top of all other arguments against it): it would also heavily punish non-perma stealth thieves. Given how the class is already punished by WvW mechanics (items, tower, sentries) which don't affect other classes it would be bit too much. I still want one day even where marked by tower/sentry would pulsate and disable class mechanic and highest damaging weapon skill completely like it does for thieves, so no shatter, no life force generation, no shroud, no virtrues, no attunement swap etc. Just for one day. When fighting a thief and getting mad at them going in stealth for long time one should actually really ask themselves: why does thief even go for such long periods of time in stealth? You think thief players don't want kills? Don't want to fight? Did it ever occurred to you that it is all they have to stay alive in most cases? I mean, i can sit here and constantly complain how guards for example have seemingly endless blocks and heals. Because this is exactly what people do here when they complain about thief. If you want thieves not to camp stealth ask Anet to give the class better means to stay alive and do damage than stealth. Fact is, all Anet did was to nerf evasion, nerf mobility, increase ini costs (which forced the class into backstab/AA rotation). After all this how can anyone be surprised that thief players resort to stealth builds? YOU (community) asked for it after all.