Vagrant.7206

I'm really not sure why everyone feels like being elitist. I started playing engineer when I was 23, I'm now 30. My fingers are way less comfortable playing the kit piano than they were. We need to acknowledge that core engineer is a mish mash of random ideas that don't fit a cohesive train of thought. Both elite specs have some cohesion to them, core engineer does not.

"Thinking" (Yes, I know it's from WvW) I'd love to see some video of people actually trying core engi against the current meta. That'll be fun. Well a guy did Core Engie for a bit and had quite a bit of success. Here's a video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/456057113 His build is not the usual though. And he gives the Prot engie a run for his money at the end.Watched it. Weird build tbh, guess he was relying on blinds to survive. Seemed decent as a side noder, but his opponents weren't too bright either.

Could you be more specific? What role are you trying to fill? Who are you struggling against? How good is your general knowledge of conquest?

Why do you keep resurrecting this thread?

"Thinking" (Yes, I know it's from WvW) I'd love to see some video of people actually trying core engi against the current meta. That'll be fun.

Scrapper is not supposed to be a support. It's supposed to be a tank. Except it hasn't been good at being a tank in a long while, and they've made it substantially worse with the last balance patch. It's been better as a support since PoF launched, and still best serves as support.

These suggestions don't make sense to me. The whole point of overcharged shot is that it's a blast so powerful it knocks you back too. It's one of the best instant-cast CC's in the game, so it needs a drawback.Jump shot is a reference to Rocket jumping from TF2. It's a useful movement skill.The animation of glue shot is to indicate that it is, in fact, glue. The pulsing field is useful for people who try to condi cleanse their way through it.

Yeah, too much complaint this time around. They actually announced save/load build templates, but no one is even mentioning it or praising it in any way. Makes the community look bad imo. I mean, it's not like we asked for it for 7 years, and modders implemented it long before ANet dropped the news. Modders do this for fun. Arenanet does it for their JOBS. But modders were able to implement this function much faster, with much fewer people.

There's... not a buff for every class?

If you wanted to make scrapper even less relevant in WvW than it is now, this is one way to accomplish that goal. While the chem field -> detection pulse change would be nice, it's completely irrelevant if the primary role scrapper serves in WvW (support) is made even worse, especially after what the last balance patch did. If the problem is rune of antitoxin, fix that instead.

... the thread is about a hotfix. Not a balance patch. Hotfixes are meant for bugs, or stupid OP broken stuff. They are not meant for larger balance patches. No. He expected to see changes to holosmith, not a hotfix. Holo needs more than a hotfix. I'm gonna go to my thread and come back and copy paste the list. here it is:I'm a little teapot bloody and cutHere is my handle, here is my butt This is what we are looking at. If it needs more than a hotfix, why complain about this specific patch? Nobody got balanced here. Yeah, that's a great list you got going right there. The best list, really. It's a really amazing list. Stupendous. The media wouldn't tell you this, but you got the best lists. I've been digging through some of your posts about Holo recently, and the amount of hoops you go through to defend the class is actually insane.What got me was that you didn't want to normalize the auto range to 130 because the animation appears to be longer. With this reasoning, should we just go ahead and increase reaper autos to 450 range? People using the charr bazooka (which clearly has an enormous pipe) having an extra 1000 range on all their abilities. Making people use Belinda's greatsword, which should use a slashing animation weaker against plate armor skins, while decimating cloth skins?You see how insane this is starting to get? Sigh. That's the simple answer I give because the long answer is a PITA. But here we go:All engineer autos are compared against Bomb. It's our most powerful autoattack skill on core engi, full stop. Sure, it's compared to it. By that logic all guard autos would be compared to scepter. The auto is great but the kit is weak. Much like the bomb kit.Why have an autoattack that competes as the best one, while also having all the other skills forge does? It's hands down comparable to rampage, not a class weapon.Because engineer doesn't have a weapon swap, and only has 3 core weapons. Kits are the closest things we have to weapon swaps. Kit swapping is something that every engineer build has done since the dawn of this game, and it can be done rapidly enough that many builds are based around kit swapping. These builds only use the most powerful skills in each kit, because there is no cooldown on kit swapping. PF is essentially a better kit that we don't need to rapidly swap between. Your point? It's the third auto in the chain, it's always the most powerful. That it's too powerful.The third auto in a chain is always the most powerful. Electro-whirl on scrapper is also powerful, but that doesn't make the entire hammer OP. A few notes on your suggested nerfs:Elixir S is not a trait. Do you mean a nerf to HGH? Or just Throw Elixir S (which I assume is what you mean)? I know it's not a trait, and considering I explicitly said invis, I assumed you'd understand that.Hence, why I asked. To make it harder to micromanage That makes no sense. It's inconsistent with the rest of the entire spec. Then remove the heal. It's currently a better version of the guard grandmaster altruistic healing. Personally, I'd prefer its predecessor, but w/e. If this is where we draw the line, fine.

... the thread is about a hotfix. Not a balance patch. Hotfixes are meant for bugs, or stupid OP broken stuff. They are not meant for larger balance patches. No. He expected to see changes to holosmith, not a hotfix. Holo needs more than a hotfix. I'm gonna go to my thread and come back and copy paste the list. here it is:I'm a little teapot bloody and cutHere is my handle, here is my butt This is what we are looking at. If it needs more than a hotfix, why complain about this specific patch? Nobody got balanced here. Yeah, that's a great list you got going right there. The best list, really. It's a really amazing list. Stupendous. The media wouldn't tell you this, but you got the best lists. I've been digging through some of your posts about Holo recently, and the amount of hoops you go through to defend the class is actually insane.What got me was that you didn't want to normalize the auto range to 130 because the animation appears to be longer. With this reasoning, should we just go ahead and increase reaper autos to 450 range? People using the charr bazooka (which clearly has an enormous pipe) having an extra 1000 range on all their abilities. Making people use Belinda's greatsword, which should use a slashing animation weaker against plate armor skins, while decimating cloth skins?You see how insane this is starting to get? Sigh. That's the simple answer I give because the long answer is a PITA. But here we go: All engineer autos are compared against Bomb. It's our most powerful autoattack skill on core engi, full stop.Bomb has 240 range (notice a "coincidence?") and does substantially more damage than the holo autoattack chain, except for the final auto of the chain. Compared to bomb auto, holo auto is roughly even in PvP.Lowering the auto range of forge also means that the animators would need to rerig the animation to match the attack. Otherwise you end up with just another elixir gun 3 issue, which has literally plagued core engineer since launch until about a month ago. The animation was double the length of the actual effect for 7 whole years, and made it frustrating to use. If it takes them that long to fix a single animation issue we've known about for years, I don't expect them to adjust it for holo either. Your point? It's the third auto in the chain, it's always the most powerful. A few notes on your suggested nerfs: Elixir S is not a trait. Do you mean a nerf to HGH? Or just Throw Elixir S (which I assume is what you mean)?Why 75% heat on prismatic converter? All other holo skills and traits operate at 50% heat, with additional utility for some skills at 100% with ECSU. Otherwise ok with that change.Hidden flask fine. CD is short as is, makes senseCompounding chemicals -- umm, what? That's the main point of that trait. Even its predecessor had that effect.Heat therapy fine, I've been suggesting that for months now, nobody seems to listenThe weird thing is, besides heat therapy, I have an entirely different set of ideas on what traits are busted (in the OP sense). Ah well.

... the thread is about a hotfix. Not a balance patch. Hotfixes are meant for bugs, or stupid OP broken stuff. They are not meant for larger balance patches. No. He expected to see changes to holosmith, not a hotfix. Holo needs more than a hotfix. I'm gonna go to my thread and come back and copy paste the list. here it is:I'm a little teapot bloody and cutHere is my handle, here is my butt This is what we are looking at.If it needs more than a hotfix, why complain about this specific patch? Nobody got balanced here. Yeah, that's a great list you got going right there. The best list, really. It's a really amazing list. Stupendous. The media wouldn't tell you this, but you got the best lists.

... the thread is about a hotfix. Not a balance patch. Hotfixes are meant for bugs, or stupid OP broken stuff. They are not meant for larger balance patches.

It happens with other CC's as well. I've hit thieves with overcharged shot and thumper turret when their infiltrator's arrow was in the air, but before they teleported. The result is the teleport completes, but they're still CC'ed at the end of it. While it's most common with infiltrator's arrow, I have seen other teleports have similar problems, especially if the teleport is not considered a stunbreak. with teleport thats reasonable, becouse arrow is midair when you get hit, when it arrives you get teleported ( but still get hit becouse it connects before arrow lands )whats not reasonable is having insta teleport that removes cc, teleport you and THEN you get hit, its not AFTER you got hit since it would remove the CC. meaning its bugged.That's likely an order-of-events error then -- the stunbreak procs when you activate the skill, the CC hits, then you teleport (this process happens in less than a quarter of a second). The only thing that could fix this would be if the stunbreak proc'd at the end of the teleport, instead of the beginning when you cast the skill. However, like I said, this is not a problem unique to HS -- it's common to all CCs. Do you really want another list again of all the different nerfs holo has gotten? Lol, it's been repeated like 20 times by now, and the only "true" buffs it has gotten were combo finishers. Thank you for continuing to pick up the torch long after many of us have gotten too tired. Ah yeah, I'm aware of the fatigue too. Considering the outcry over the temporary disabling of CI (but not the gutting of scrapper) there's not many of us around to pass the torch to.

It happens with other CC's as well. I've hit thieves with overcharged shot and thumper turret when their infiltrator's arrow was in the air, but before they teleported. The result is the teleport completes, but they're still CC'ed at the end of it. While it's most common with infiltrator's arrow, I have seen other teleports have similar problems, especially if the teleport is not considered a stunbreak.

Do you really want another list again of all the different nerfs holo has gotten? Lol, it's been repeated like 20 times by now, and the only "true" buffs it has gotten were combo finishers.The only good nerf on holo was a stability nerf on corona burst, the rest was nothing and didnt adress the issues with holosmith. Its damage for its sustain and how spammy it is. Might as well make a thread based on my previous post. (I wonder how did you skip it)There's been a substantial number of other nerfs to its damage and survival capabilities, including nerfs to core engineer. That you choose to ignore them is your prerogative, not mine. Take it how you will, but you did come onto a thread about engineer, and try to make it about mesmer. The bug you described is a bug common to all CC's. I suspect it's something in the engine. It's just more noticeable with Holographic Shockwave.

Immediately follow it with a leap finisher. It's too short to trigger (most) blasts with.

You can't use Bomb Kit with a shield. True, but you generally don't need to either. Smoke bomb and glue bomb make for fantastic defense.

Sword on holo is super wonky because it directly competes with bomb kit, and has some really awkward timing. At least hammer had some uniqueness to it, separating it from other kits.

Do you really want another list again of all the different nerfs holo has gotten? Lol, it's been repeated like 20 times by now, and the only "true" buffs it has gotten were combo finishers. Also, not addressing your other post, largely because you're still trying to put words in my mouth and try to get a rise out of me. Frankly, it's not ok.

The rotation is going to depend on your needs, your cooldowns, and your heat level. I run prot holo, so my rotation is slightly different. But, assuming all cooldowns are ready, no heat: Enter Photon Forge beforehand (til 5s timer wears off)Drop Heal Turret -> pop Elixir U for quickness -> Detonate HT when field appearsPhoton Forge 5 for blast -> Photon Forge 2 for leapDrop out of forge, double tap 4 (shield, magnetic inversion) for a blast before the water field disappears. Alternatively, leap with sword 3.For rifle, it would be similar, except instead of that last point, you use jump shot for a second leap. You can also chain F1 (healing mist or whatever it's called) with photon forge 2 for another leap. This is in an ideal scenario, with the enemy not cc'ing you, HT not getting destroyed prematurely, no allies with overlapping fields, all cooldowns are ready, and no heat. Realistically, you'll have to balance your cooldowns and heat level against which leaps/blasts you use. But, the relevant ones are: Holographic Shockwave is a blast finisher. +25 heatHolo Leap is a leap finisher. +7 heatDetonate HT is a blast finisher Rifle 5 is a leap finisher.So that's 2 leap finishers and 2 blast finishers on top of HT's heal + overcharge.

Wait... you mean like hammer for scrapper?

It does NOT matter how long a class was meta and how long it was unplayable. Balancing and talking about balance should not be done on grudge, this just fuels more and more hate.All we know now is that chrono is unplayable and it needs to be fixed asap. You're right, but this thread was focused on holo. I emphasized that scrapper needs more than just a hotfix, because they're both engineer e-specs. Then @praqtos.9035 brings up mesmers... for some reason. This thread was about engineer, correct? Nobody else got balance. Scrapper is still in the can.Chrono would like to have a word with you Scrapper's been irrelevant in PvE since it existed. It had a brief moment, then sputtered and died. It also maybe had a few months during PoF. Otherwise, it's been way deader, way longer. Chrono's only been in the dump since... what, last month?That so nice that you are talking about PVE in pvp subforum... almost makes sense...almost@"Crab Fear.1624" said:The light (of the forge) has reached into the darkest corners to purge all scum builds from pve. pvpNot bad, not bad :D It's so nice that you're whining about a single balance patch that hurt chronomancer, forgetting about all the other e-specs and classes that have had to spend time in the dirt. See? I can be dismissive too. Try againOnce again, you are making zero sense. Why are you whining about scrapper in pve?What it has to do with pvp? Keep your PvE complaints for appropriate subforum.You were the first who whined about your "scrapper" for no reason while mumbling about PvE vIaBiLiTy... then call me dismissive (why should I even mention them)?I mentioned chrono not because its bad but because it was deleted from competitive game modes like druid, scrapper wasnt.Whats wrong with people on this forum even? I just said "Ye, chrono is in the can too" and that triggered mad engi main. @Vagrant.7206 said:Nobody else got balance. Scrapper is still in the can. @praqtos.9035 said:Chrono would like to have a word with you Scrapper was deleted from the PvP scene, but thanks for trying. It's been deleted from the PvP scene longer than chrono, and had only a few months to appear. It amazes me how much mesmer mains whine about one of their e-specs being in the gutter for a tiny period, when everybody else has had to deal with this.its amazes me how "engi mains" playing a victims, how they defend broken holo to preserve its OP'ness. Did I defend holo in this thread? The only thing I asked was what needed hotfixing, because the urgency of hotfixing is generally intended for bugs or massively degenerate gameplay. But it's cool. Please keep putting words in my mouth. :smile: Self-Awareness Level: -1 I'm glad we have that established. Now get in line. To be clear, what he described isn't actually a range bug for Holographic Shockwave. It's a general bug with CC's that affects any class with teleports. There have been many times I used an overcharged shot or thumper turret that hit a thief just after they cast infiltrator's arrow, but before the arrow landed. Same goes for holo shockwave. All result in a CC AFTER the teleport, even outside the normal range of the CC. Basically, any delay in the teleport, or the CC lands while the user is teleporting, will result in an oddly ranged CC. I've seen it happen to necros, mesmers, thieves, eles, and guardians. Ranger, engi, and warrior don't teleport, so I've never seen it happen to them. And rev's teleports are... different. I have seen weird occasions where a CC will hit while warriors or rangers are in the middle of a leap/rush movement, which results in a weird synergy of movement plus a CC. It's some kind of engine glitch, which I don't think is exclusive to Holographic Shockwave. It's more apparent from engineer, because engi has some of the longer/larger CC's. That said -- getting hit twice by the same HS IS definitely a bug in the way HS is designed, because it makes several "donuts" outwards, instead of one big CC. I'm not sure how you would fix this without making HS an instantaneous CC though, because all outwardly-expanding CC's operate in this fashion.

Nobody else got balance. Scrapper is still in the can.Chrono would like to have a word with you Scrapper's been irrelevant in PvE since it existed. It had a brief moment, then sputtered and died. It also maybe had a few months during PoF. Otherwise, it's been way deader, way longer. Chrono's only been in the dump since... what, last month?That so nice that you are talking about PVE in pvp subforum... almost makes sense...almost@"Crab Fear.1624" said:The light (of the forge) has reached into the darkest corners to purge all scum builds from pve. pvpNot bad, not bad :D It's so nice that you're whining about a single balance patch that hurt chronomancer, forgetting about all the other e-specs and classes that have had to spend time in the dirt. See? I can be dismissive too. Try againOnce again, you are making zero sense. Why are you whining about scrapper in pve?What it has to do with pvp? Keep your PvE complaints for appropriate subforum.You were the first who whined about your "scrapper" for no reason while mumbling about PvE vIaBiLiTy... then call me dismissive (why should I even mention them)?I mentioned chrono not because its bad but because it was deleted from competitive game modes like druid, scrapper wasnt.Whats wrong with people on this forum even? I just said "Ye, chrono is in the can too" and that triggered mad engi main. @Vagrant.7206 said:Nobody else got balance. Scrapper is still in the can. @praqtos.9035 said:Chrono would like to have a word with youScrapper was deleted from the PvP scene, but thanks for trying. It's been deleted from the PvP scene longer than chrono, and had only a few months to appear. It amazes me how much mesmer mains whine about one of their e-specs being in the gutter for a tiny period, when everybody else has had to deal with this.