Vagrant.7206

I mean, if we're being honest, a lot of the complaints are coming from mesmer mains looking for somebody to point the finger at.

It's almost heartbreaking to see all the excellent suggestions made by players over the last 6+ years treated with such a dismissive attitude. The last time an employee of Anet graced us with their presence on this sub-forum was the 29th of March 2018. Pathetic. And most of the time they do comment, it's simply to let us know planned changes, not actually take input.

With invuln skills such as Elixir S or Renewed Focus, the counter is that neither side is able to do anything. They're just stalling. My problem with invulns are ones such as Obsidian Flesh, distortion, or the berserker stance/endure pain wombo combo. These allow you to attack/perform actions while invuln, which is supremely irritating. At least with the warrior wombo combo, it takes multiple utility slots to do.Renewed focus cant stomp/revive people, elixir S can(comes with a busted stealth skill on toolbelt). Mad about distortion that consume clones to extend duration or elementalist that need to be in earth as second element (assuming its weaver)? I find that very funnyDistortion can stomp as well (free of any utility slot for mesmer), not sure why your criticism doesn't extend there either.

Alchemy, engineer. It's been present in literally every meta engineer build since launch. It's just one of the best defensive lines for engineer to take.

With invuln skills such as Elixir S or Renewed Focus, the counter is that neither side is able to do anything. They're just stalling. My problem with invulns are ones such as Obsidian Flesh, distortion, or the berserker stance/endure pain wombo combo. These allow you to attack/perform actions while invuln, which is supremely irritating. At least with the warrior wombo combo, it takes multiple utility slots to do.

I can confidently say that scrapper is once again non-existent in PvE (it was rare before, but had some use as a healer).I have seen one or two scrappers in PvP, but they perform objectively worse than most holo builds. Prot holo is definitely better at tanking. There's probably an exception for drunk engineer, but almost nobody plays it.I don't play WvW, but I hear the nerfs really hurt there.

This. Invuln should be a temporary reprieve, but it should limit what you can do heavily. Elixir S and Renewed Focus are examples of this. Or it should only be partial invuln, IE endure pain and signet of stone.

To answer your first question, it has to do with multiple factors: Class design -- Smooth gameplay naturally leads to classes being played more. For example, guardian has relatively flowing gameplay, whereas engineer gameplay is really janky.Complexity -- Complex classes naturally get played the least. These would be Rev, Engi, and Mesmer/EleEffectiveness -- More of a "flavor of the month" thing. Some classes tend to be more in vogue than others. Guardian has never been bad, for example, whereas ele has seen a lot of ups and downs.And for the class I main -- engineer. More of a diehard, been playing it since launch as my main. I just get too bored with other classes. I do branch out occasionally, such as guardian, necro, ranger, thief, or warrior if the mood strikes me. I can't tolerate playing mesmer for some reason.

Late to the party, much?

Unlikely. They do major balance patches about once every three months. The next major overhaul is due in late September, early October.

Honestly, I think this is the best solution. Often I don't need it to go as far as it does, or I need a leap finisher. The evade is a nice bonus. A lot of the jankiness of the skill could be resolved by making it single leaps with an ammo charge.

10 pixels amounts to my whole life using the new "raid meta" build. - https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/engineer/holosmith/power/ This is an awful amount of micromanaging just to do middling damage for the meta builds. Eesh. Guess I'm sticking to DH for now.

Not that weird. It would be a SUPER long evade if that was the case. I'd just rather it had 3 leap finishers again.

Engi because they're super easy to read. :smile:

lolololololololololololol Are you "lololo" because of their stability uptime being longer than you can fight them or there is any other reason?:>Holo builds can lock down eles. Prot holo in particular is a hard counter to condi ele. Since ele has only a few CC's, they're easy pickins when their dodges run out.

Even some of the more egregious CC's, such as holo shockwave, aren't this powerful.

Life can be breathed back into old games, provided there is enough effort to add quality experiences.

Oh, you mean what they did to scrapper?

Honestly, we just need more variety to the PvP game modes. Conquest is stale.

Oh, it's all over the PvP forums right now. All the angry mesmers are directing their hate towards holo.

Ah yes, missing his point entirely. Core engi isn't viable, but you want to nerf the hell out of its still-functioning traitlines before even touching the thing you actually have an issue with.Like... I dont know... "core isnt viable" ... is this a joke or not ?Ok, how is core mesmer is viable to be nerfed to the state where I have to get specific traitlines just for 1 or 2 useful traits?Meanwhile I called out clearly OP traits that need a look at them, I didnt just call a slaughter upon the class for no good reason. Was I talking about CI or mesmer nerfs here? No. I was pointing out that you'd nerf the two most viable traitlines for core engi because you want to see holo nerfed. He was pointing out how you'd further drive core engi into the ground because of this.Are you completely blind ? I'm not talking about CI either. The nerf I suggest are more than reasonable and not just to "nerf holo". Every trait I mentioned, if you seen it ofc, deserve a tone down because they are too strong.I don't see how any of the traits or skills you mentioned are too strong. Possibly because you said throw elixir X instead of throw elixir S. I think the duration on that should be 3-4s. But the rest really look like nitpicks than bigger issues. Because you are not getting the point.If you feel it's too spammy -> increase each skill's heat generation. That forces holo out of PF faster, and means they have to more carefully pick the skills they use.If you feel it's too capable of sustain -> Reduce Heat Therapy. It's a free 6500 health about once every 20-25 seconds.These are very real, reasonable solutions to your problems that keep the "feel" of the spec intact. But you keep suggesting overbearing nerfs that would hurt core engi and scrapper too, when they are not in good places as-is.I suggest nerfs to clearly busted traits, of course you dont think they are :joy:Double reveal in 1 trait is fine or 4200 crits from passive proc bomb is fine as well(that cant even see), 20s+ vigor at any time is fine too, hidden flask that nearly permanent keep this all boons on you, clearly fine, stealth elixir that on stealth elite level on less cooldown is ok too. /sBut something tells me we both wont get what we want, how many times people told anet that evade in stun is the reason of all mess or EM shouldnt be released? All we can do is complaint until we get nerfs we want, working just fineThey really aren't "busted" traits as you describe them. I'm not sure why you feel like adding hyperbole to them. If you want meaningful changes on holo, I recommend not nerfing unrelated core traits.

This is amazing. Couldn't help it after I saw the title. :tongue:

Ah yes, missing his point entirely. Core engi isn't viable, but you want to nerf the hell out of its still-functioning traitlines before even touching the thing you actually have an issue with.Like... I dont know... "core isnt viable" ... is this a joke or not ?Ok, how is core mesmer is viable to be nerfed to the state where I have to get specific traitlines just for 1 or 2 useful traits?Meanwhile I called out clearly OP traits that need a look at them, I didnt just call a slaughter upon the class for no good reason.Was I talking about CI or mesmer nerfs here? No. I was pointing out that you'd nerf the two most viable traitlines for core engi because you want to see holo nerfed. He was pointing out how you'd further drive core engi into the ground because of this. Because you are not getting the point. If you feel it's too spammy -> increase each skill's heat generation. That forces holo out of PF faster, and means they have to more carefully pick the skills they use.If you feel it's too capable of sustain -> Reduce Heat Therapy. It's a free 6500 health about once every 20-25 seconds.These are very real, reasonable solutions to your problems that keep the "feel" of the spec intact. But you keep suggesting overbearing nerfs that would hurt core engi and scrapper too, when they are not in good places as-is.

That's not an excuse. It's pointing out that the OP's argument is invalid, because holosmith has been nerfed repeatedly and substantially. I think some changes to reduce heat therapy may need to be in order, but overall I haven't seen that many problems with it.The nerfs were so long time ago (ye, it was a fun time when Zan without a weapon farmed everyone just with forge alone) and when every class seeing nerfs holo havent seen any meaningful nerfs this year at all. Thanks to complaints about the other class 24/7 and some dev main it xDTbh its not surprising that biased holo main think the class is fine because he plays it, thats pretty much it.HT wont stop holos from spamming everything with low cooldown and pretty much every skill worth a dodge, sure HT will fix it /sThe only drawback is covered by perma vigor (need a huge shaves), "Thermal Release Valve" that trigger HT (800 hp every evade) and drop heat (also need like 8-10% to reduce spam from it). Ah yes. The "biased X main" argument. Weren't you criticizing that very argument? What are you talking about no nerfs this year? There was a nerf to stability on March 5th. They added an additional penalty to overheating on July 16th. They added dynamic damage scaling to laser's edge, also on July 16th. These are all nerfs. Not to mention the serious nerfs to scrapper. I know that when your main gets hit, it hurts the most. But don't think they've been ignoring holo either.Dont you think you are dramatize too much ? Only you believe that is too much.The only nerf that I can call was "serious" was stability nerf. Lasers edge and especially this "overheating penalty" are pretty much nothing, didnt affect it much, the ability to spam forge and prevent it from overheating is a l2p issue.Holo flew under the nerf radar all the time and pretty much everyone know how stupid holo is but forum is more interested in complaining about clones.There is no connection to how "my main" being nerfed, nice try thoDon't you think you're playing down nerfs on other classes, and playing up nerfs on yours? The laser's edge change actually is pretty important -- because it means holos never hit the 15% modifier without overheating. It also means that maintaining >50% heat is useless, unlike before where you could maintain >50% heat and keep the buff going. In essence, it removed smart, tactical play.The nerf to overheating... well, that one's minor for the most part unless you screw up. In which case, it's a death knell on top of an already harsh punishment.You say holo flies under the radar when nearly every balance patch since PoF has nerfed it. The only "straight buff" holo has received was adding combo finishers onto it, which it should've had from the get-go. It still doesn't have any heat interaction with core weapons, despite literal years of engis griping about the lack of interaction with the core class. Yes, that's why we should revert CI and nerf mirage instead. Got zero opinion on that, beyond being tired of all that moaning.Amen. Ah yes, missing his point entirely. Core engi isn't viable, but you want to nerf the hell out of its still-functioning traitlines before even touching the thing you actually have an issue with. The sustain is obviously the problem with holo -- it's meant to be a glass cannon. The thing is... there's some obvious sustain in holo already. Also known as heat therapy. If you want to hit the sustain, that is a primary candidate. You could also increase heat generation on many of the forge skills to make it a shorter duration burst mode.

This forum has turned into a parody of itself.