Quadox.7834

Totalpre-patchpost-patchpre-post difference0 clones1.151.013 %increase100%100%1 clones*1.152 = 2.3***1.02 = 2.0**13 %increase2.76/2.3 = 20 %2.1/2.0 = 5 %2 clones*0.923 = 2.76***0.73 = 2.1**24 %increase3.22/2.76 = 17%2.452/2.1 = 17%3 clones*0.8054 = 3.22***0.6134 = 2.452**24 %Question 1: why not reward shattering with more clones?Question 2: why not nerf by the same percentage across the board instead of hitting 2-3 clones so hard? Problem: as a result, there will only be a 5% difference between shattering with 1 clone and 2 clones, meaning that shattering with 1 clone out will be the unequivocal best decision and spawning another clone will be a misplay (calculation assumes melee range yadayada). Solution: make Mind Wrack scale more/better, especially between 1 and 2 clones. Posted here because it pertains to the pvp balance team rather than the systems ("pve") team, I should think.

Totalpre-patchpost-patchpre-post difference0 clones1.151.013 %increase100%100%1 clones*1.152 = 2.3***1.02 = 2.0**13 %increase2.76/2.3 = 20 %2.1/2.0 = 5 %2 clones*0.923 = 2.76***0.73 = 2.1**24 %increase3.22/2.76 = 17%2.452/2.1 = 17%3 clones*0.8054 = 3.22***0.6134 = 2.452**24 %Question 1: why not reward shattering with more clones?Question 2: why not nerf by the same percentage across the board instead of hitting 2-3 clones so hard? Problem: as a result, there will only be a 5% difference between shattering with 1 clone and 2 clones, meaning that shattering with 1 clone out will be the unequivocal best decision and spawning another clone will be a misplay (calculation assumes melee range yadayada). Solution: make Mind Wrack scale more/better, especially between 1 and 2 clones. Will x-post to pvp forums because it pertains to the pvp team rather than the systems (pve) team I believe.

So in this last patch they rebalance thief bundles yet still do nothing about plasma...

I rarely get this frustrated but kitten core. Every elite spec has traits that interact with core. People paid for elite specs. If you truly want to balance core, then buff it in ways elite specs can't take advantage. Give it a unique f skill like ancient echo and/or adjust the traits so having three base traitlines is beneficial like s/d thief taking deadly arts/acrobatics/trickery. Nerfing elite specs to balance core is completely unnecessary.This makes no sense because:a) the problem is that chronophntasma doubles the effectiveness of traits like phantasmal force which is retarded and should never happen because it necessecitates those traits being completely useless without chronophantasma, which should be obvious.b) Core is currently better than chrono, afaik misha played it in AT as well.Fine. Good. This suggestion doesn't bring other people down to feel good about yourself."Bring down other people" what on earth. You identify so strongly with a trait (chronophantasma) in a game that me making a balance suggestion is "bringing you down as a person"'. Fantastic.Lyssa protect me. Can you not think of a solution that doesn't negatively impact people's existing use of the spec?All balance changes have the potential to negatively impact people, such is the nature of change.The whole purpose of this topic is to improve QoL, not disrupt it for other people. You will never always be able to use moa/gravity well because they require enemies. Run time warp or mass invis if you hate that feeling.You completely missed my point, I don't hate that I need to hit my elite skill, that is nonsense, I dislike the fact that you are incredibly locked in how you use f5 due to the fact that using it in conjunction with gravwell/moa is always the correct option. When chrono was announced I remember people talking about all the kites and such that would be possible but it quickly devolved into a class mechanic of "double your elite skill every 90 seconds!", it would simply be more interesting to remove the elite synergy and perhaps lower the CD as compensation. Though this 3rd point of mine is definitely the least important of the three.

Yep, sounds good.

Remove chronophantasma, it simply clutters the screen, makes clone gen even slower and clunkier, and interacts too much with other phantasm traits (doubling their effectiveness) which throws core mesmer balance out of whack. Either bring back IP or do some other QoL overhaul (like removing clones from chrono entirely), without this chrono is just terribly annoying to play even if you go all-in on clone generation with deceptive evasion, scepter, etc. Make continuum split not work on elite skills. CS with elites remove the creative and improvisational that should be inherent in CS. Using it for a skillful kite or a burst combo currently doesn't make you feel satisfied, it leaves you feeling that you fucked up and wasted it because you didn't use moa/gravity well.

Don't buff anything, just (1) QoL (2) Add glamour trait (3) Nerfs. Do the same with all classes (in line with the announced long term powerlevel adjustment prospects).

Now that we have gotten information on future nerfs / powerlevel adjustment across the board, hope they dont buff chrono.

Then make it work like Hidden Killer and have the damage modifier removal linger for 2 seconds out of stealth. This would solve the issue. You've probably missed a few metas or don't have the creativity or math skills to understand how effective those healing/utility/weapon skills are.Mantra of Recovery has an incredible amount of healing on a short cooldown. It gives between 6555-10155 health on a 10 second cooldown with ZERO healing power investment that can proc on-heal runes frequently.Mantra of Concentration is a 15s cooldown double stun break that also gives other powerful boons.Mind Spike hitting for 7k just by autoattacking after stripping all of their boons with a shatter combo is usually more than enough to kill them.PU has always been busted. The entire Chaos traitline makes mesmers extremely difficult to kill. There are currently builds in ranked that allow mesmers to escape and reset fights every 30 seconds. They are nearly untouchable by power, condi, and ranged damage. 1-3) Zzz4) More accurately stealth is busted, people have complained for years but since we seem stuck with it, removing PU stealth extension is better than nothing, and something I wanted since its current form from 2015.5) Do you have match videos/stream (from your perspective, not clips)?

Edit: On a scale from 1-10, how difficult is it for you to chew gum and walk at the same time?:joy: My dude... you can blind/distort/daze/stun/immobilize and walk behind/super speed/etc. etc. in order to get a mantra channel off. It is extremely easy to do on mesmer.You're making me laugh lmao. Who cares how many clicks it takes?? MoR heals you for up to 10k health every 10 seconds. It's by far one of the strongest healing skills in the game.What?Please, please tell me you're memeing me about the "focus" issue.The mantra burst usually only shatters with one clone. If you strip boons with f2 in s/t, you can swap to gs and still do the full combo without an issue in under 2 seconds.Uh huh. I'm top 30 on core berserker mantra mesmer even though I have barely any prior experience on it. I also place top 30 on EU with 120-180 ping.I don't. However, the fact is that a properly executed mantra burst is impossible to avoid. As an experienced player, instantly dying to something with absolutely zero tells is frustrating. Again, that reinforces my point that no one on EU can play the build properly. Mantra mesmers have consistently been in the top 10 on NA every season. It's extremely efficient at farming ranked. @Burnfall.9573 said: 'nonsensical and incomplete suggestions??' -Only in Guild Wars 2- Is there anything you disagree with?

People should stop coming up with convoluted yet nonsensical and incomplete suggestions like "Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ" and of course adding "EZ" to the end to pretend that they are smart, while of course ignoring that the first hit would put you out of stealth and thus you would do full damage anyway. In other words it would only work for single-hit heavy-hitters like deadeye. Second, targeting shit like mantra of recovery, mantra of concentration and fucking sword autoattack is just unintelligent unless the entire thesis of the post is to ruin its own credibility. Third, it is sad that there even is a discussion to begin with, just delete mantra of pain and the prismatic understanding stealth extension, nobody above silver 2 has ever cared about or liked those.

Look behind + awareness? You can even see the mesmer on the minimap behind her.

I agree lots of u said before, but I disagree this one. CI+MOD was a bad build because there was a stun trait in domination before. And I could said, only me play this CI+MOD+ power Chrono about 6 seasons before in plat. Because if mesmers wanna one shot people, they would choice domination and dueling because they do not have to care if they could interrupt target or not. They do not have to check or guess if enemy is casting or would cast at next sec. And there are lots of good traits for dealing damage in domination and dueling. If a power mesmer choices the Choas, that means he can't one shot anyone.In my experience, I need 2~3 interrupts when I 1v1.When I did interrupt them, I must have damage skills or I just stand there, auto-attack and then waste the chance.(Please remeber, power mesmers have to wait about 10 sec for a burst, if I did not interrupt them or interrupt them at wrong time, all I can do is gs1 them. But if I hold my burst and wait for interrupt, most of time all I can do is auto-attack, too. that is why I said most of mesmers would not choice CI+MOD before. It is so useless in some situations.) The reason I played CI+MOD before is for teamfights, most of time, even if I stun good players (plat1~legendary), they still have skills for breaking stun.But if I focused on their casting time and did interrupt, they couldn't just run away with stunbreak skills, because they got immobilized. But as I said, I must choice Chaos trait, that means I can choice only dueling or domination for the last trait I can take.You must know mesmers have to focus on interrupting and then CI would be good. If mesmers just MOD randomly, CI would become a useless thing. I just want you know if CI+MOD is OP, it can't stay in gw2 since 2013. People hate it now because CI+MOD+pistol trait+condi mirage can create so many kinds of condi and people can't clean all of them even they bring condi clean skills. But for power mesmers, CI+MOD is ok. Whatsoever, anet already think CI is unbalance...., I just hope they would only remove the immobilize.(But I guess they would remove CI forever.... sigh... So tired.) You are right, that the oneshot Mes using Mantra of Distraction wth a Stun in old CS trait in Domination was also broken. I even said that myself. The reason is just the same: instant range lock down. In these builds Mantra wasn't used for intrrupts at all, it was used for a lock down to hit other dmg skills. But that something else was also broken is no argument against that Ci was problematic too. Both traits now got addressed and that is one of the few changes i think Anet did good with. Yes my first reaction to the complete disable was the same: What a bad way of balancing. I know it is a temporary hotfix but would it be so much more work to only disable the immob and not the whole trait? Maybe there are problems with only disable the immob, i dunno.They can disable traits without need to update the game(patch).Without a stun/immobilize power burst is nearly impossible to land, unless they are willingly eat it without evading/blocking/whatnot. Missing/not killing with a burst for glassy mesmer means he most likely get killed himself.Aned seen @"Lincolnbeard.1735" and added conversion from daze to stun as he suggested, at least somewhere to help with a burst landing.I still have well written moment in my memory from Helseth's stream during core days without this CS trait, it was on temple of the silent storm, he was raging the entire game because couldnt land his burst on anyone :P Uh, its really not. The standard combo is you go into stealth from sword 4 (so they cant see the burst coming), then oneshot them out of stealth. Or you blink into a oneshot while they dont see you. Either way, they die before they have the time to react. If anything, stuns or immobilizes just make it go from "incredibly easy to land" to "impossible to not land". Which you really dont want to do with Mesmer burst, which is part of the reason power shatter mesmer doesnt have access to stuns and immobs anymore. Stealthing with sword 4, incredible. And high-level mesmers often use focus over torch. Right, torch 4. I uh, guess I have played too much Rev, so the words "Sword 4" has gotten engrained in my brain. Still, the point stands. And Focus has been used, but then you have CC to do the burst with even less counterplay. So, its not like Mesmer is lacking a way to burst people. You need to cc with focus, swap to gs, use gs2 (0.75 secs base cast), shatter, possibly gs3, for that combo. Which my grandma could avoid. While theyre CCd and in fact, cannot avoid it. Alternatively, you do the blink or stealth combo, precast GS2 while they dont see it, then hit them for the full damage in about .2 seconds. Faster than human reaction time. Which is why I prefer Torch over Focus, with Focus if they have a stunbreak they can avoid the burst if they are fast. With stealth they have to predict correctly. Something they will have quite a lot of trouble doing. 1) There is something called stunbreak 2) Multiple classes have ways to avoid things while ccd (instant blinds, invulns, etc) 3) Test it yourself, the focus pull cc is very short, the combo must be done with quickness and is tight even then.

I agree lots of u said before, but I disagree this one. CI+MOD was a bad build because there was a stun trait in domination before. And I could said, only me play this CI+MOD+ power Chrono about 6 seasons before in plat. Because if mesmers wanna one shot people, they would choice domination and dueling because they do not have to care if they could interrupt target or not. They do not have to check or guess if enemy is casting or would cast at next sec. And there are lots of good traits for dealing damage in domination and dueling. If a power mesmer choices the Choas, that means he can't one shot anyone.In my experience, I need 2~3 interrupts when I 1v1.When I did interrupt them, I must have damage skills or I just stand there, auto-attack and then waste the chance.(Please remeber, power mesmers have to wait about 10 sec for a burst, if I did not interrupt them or interrupt them at wrong time, all I can do is gs1 them. But if I hold my burst and wait for interrupt, most of time all I can do is auto-attack, too. that is why I said most of mesmers would not choice CI+MOD before. It is so useless in some situations.) The reason I played CI+MOD before is for teamfights, most of time, even if I stun good players (plat1~legendary), they still have skills for breaking stun.But if I focused on their casting time and did interrupt, they couldn't just run away with stunbreak skills, because they got immobilized. But as I said, I must choice Chaos trait, that means I can choice only dueling or domination for the last trait I can take.You must know mesmers have to focus on interrupting and then CI would be good. If mesmers just MOD randomly, CI would become a useless thing. I just want you know if CI+MOD is OP, it can't stay in gw2 since 2013. People hate it now because CI+MOD+pistol trait+condi mirage can create so many kinds of condi and people can't clean all of them even they bring condi clean skills. But for power mesmers, CI+MOD is ok. Whatsoever, anet already think CI is unbalance...., I just hope they would only remove the immobilize.(But I guess they would remove CI forever.... sigh... So tired.) You are right, that the oneshot Mes using Mantra of Distraction wth a Stun in old CS trait in Domination was also broken. I even said that myself. The reason is just the same: instant range lock down. In these builds Mantra wasn't used for intrrupts at all, it was used for a lock down to hit other dmg skills. But that something else was also broken is no argument against that Ci was problematic too. Both traits now got addressed and that is one of the few changes i think Anet did good with. Yes my first reaction to the complete disable was the same: What a bad way of balancing. I know it is a temporary hotfix but would it be so much more work to only disable the immob and not the whole trait? Maybe there are problems with only disable the immob, i dunno.They can disable traits without need to update the game(patch).Without a stun/immobilize power burst is nearly impossible to land, unless they are willingly eat it without evading/blocking/whatnot. Missing/not killing with a burst for glassy mesmer means he most likely get killed himself.Aned seen @"Lincolnbeard.1735" and added conversion from daze to stun as he suggested, at least somewhere to help with a burst landing.I still have well written moment in my memory from Helseth's stream during core days without this CS trait, it was on temple of the silent storm, he was raging the entire game because couldnt land his burst on anyone :P Uh, its really not. The standard combo is you go into stealth from sword 4 (so they cant see the burst coming), then oneshot them out of stealth. Or you blink into a oneshot while they dont see you. Either way, they die before they have the time to react. If anything, stuns or immobilizes just make it go from "incredibly easy to land" to "impossible to not land". Which you really dont want to do with Mesmer burst, which is part of the reason power shatter mesmer doesnt have access to stuns and immobs anymore. Stealthing with sword 4, incredible. And high-level mesmers often use focus over torch. Right, torch 4. I uh, guess I have played too much Rev, so the words "Sword 4" has gotten engrained in my brain. Still, the point stands. And Focus has been used, but then you have CC to do the burst with even less counterplay. So, its not like Mesmer is lacking a way to burst people.You need to cc with focus, swap to gs, use gs2 (0.75 secs base cast), shatter, possibly gs3, for that combo. Which my grandma could avoid.

Maybe change ranked queue to 2v2 queue in offseason. I.E. alternate 5v5 and 2v2 seasons.

Shield phantasm being evadable. Some things not activating when in the air (dune cloak and decent into madness iirc). Some skills summon clones to nearest enemy instead of to your target (axe 2, deceptive evasion, ...). All clone summons should prioritise your target then fallback to nearest enemy.

so you answered the poll, by doing the opposite of what was asked ^^ "the most" not the "least" He is saying mesmer/chrono is fun to fight but not mirage.

Got depressed answering this because I realised 0/9 classes are fun to fight against. Compare that to 2015 when all except cele ele and shoutbow were. And even they were maybe more fun than the most fun class now.

I mean, that's just cherry on top. He also believes mirage dodge's 66% speed boost is better than swiftness. Yeah w/e, should have stopped posting here after my longer comment earlier.

I agree lots of u said before, but I disagree this one. CI+MOD was a bad build because there was a stun trait in domination before. And I could said, only me play this CI+MOD+ power Chrono about 6 seasons before in plat. Because if mesmers wanna one shot people, they would choice domination and dueling because they do not have to care if they could interrupt target or not. They do not have to check or guess if enemy is casting or would cast at next sec. And there are lots of good traits for dealing damage in domination and dueling. If a power mesmer choices the Choas, that means he can't one shot anyone.In my experience, I need 2~3 interrupts when I 1v1.When I did interrupt them, I must have damage skills or I just stand there, auto-attack and then waste the chance.(Please remeber, power mesmers have to wait about 10 sec for a burst, if I did not interrupt them or interrupt them at wrong time, all I can do is gs1 them. But if I hold my burst and wait for interrupt, most of time all I can do is auto-attack, too. that is why I said most of mesmers would not choice CI+MOD before. It is so useless in some situations.) The reason I played CI+MOD before is for teamfights, most of time, even if I stun good players (plat1~legendary), they still have skills for breaking stun.But if I focused on their casting time and did interrupt, they couldn't just run away with stunbreak skills, because they got immobilized. But as I said, I must choice Chaos trait, that means I can choice only dueling or domination for the last trait I can take.You must know mesmers have to focus on interrupting and then CI would be good. If mesmers just MOD randomly, CI would become a useless thing. I just want you know if CI+MOD is OP, it can't stay in gw2 since 2013. People hate it now because CI+MOD+pistol trait+condi mirage can create so many kinds of condi and people can't clean all of them even they bring condi clean skills. But for power mesmers, CI+MOD is ok. Whatsoever, anet already think CI is unbalance...., I just hope they would only remove the immobilize.(But I guess they would remove CI forever.... sigh... So tired.) You are right, that the oneshot Mes using Mantra of Distraction wth a Stun in old CS trait in Domination was also broken. I even said that myself. The reason is just the same: instant range lock down. In these builds Mantra wasn't used for intrrupts at all, it was used for a lock down to hit other dmg skills. But that something else was also broken is no argument against that Ci was problematic too. Both traits now got addressed and that is one of the few changes i think Anet did good with. Yes my first reaction to the complete disable was the same: What a bad way of balancing. I know it is a temporary hotfix but would it be so much more work to only disable the immob and not the whole trait? Maybe there are problems with only disable the immob, i dunno.They can disable traits without need to update the game(patch).Without a stun/immobilize power burst is nearly impossible to land, unless they are willingly eat it without evading/blocking/whatnot. Missing/not killing with a burst for glassy mesmer means he most likely get killed himself.Aned seen @"Lincolnbeard.1735" and added conversion from daze to stun as he suggested, at least somewhere to help with a burst landing.I still have well written moment in my memory from Helseth's stream during core days without this CS trait, it was on temple of the silent storm, he was raging the entire game because couldnt land his burst on anyone :P Uh, its really not. The standard combo is you go into stealth from sword 4 (so they cant see the burst coming), then oneshot them out of stealth. Or you blink into a oneshot while they dont see you. Either way, they die before they have the time to react. If anything, stuns or immobilizes just make it go from "incredibly easy to land" to "impossible to not land". Which you really dont want to do with Mesmer burst, which is part of the reason power shatter mesmer doesnt have access to stuns and immobs anymore. Stealthing with sword 4, incredible. And high-level mesmers often use focus over torch.

This is a meaningless conversation, I'm not the one who started comparing wildly different skills across professions. My only point is that anet clearly are not principally against having instant interrupts in the game and this argument should therefore be put to rest. It can be "fine" to have instant interrupts as long as they don't do too much (like pseudo-stun via CI). Taking MoD over SoI+SoM is not at all a strictly defensive choice, you overestimate how good mantra is defensively in various situations. MoD is certainly good in some situations like +1s and 1v1s vs classes with little stab, but it isn't good when multiple people are chasing/attacking you, and it fails vs thief in my opinion (which is your biggest counter). Taking SoI gives you access to an extra blind, interrupt, distortion (which also gives multiple mirrors via desert distortion), this is pretty big. I don't think there is such a marked difference in survivability in my experience. And these signets are easier to use than mantra as well, in my opinion. To others: you can absolutely stow weapon to bait mantra, same as with baiting pulmonary impact. Even vs good mesmers. To everyone: regardless, it is pointless to even argue like this over minutia, let's instead wait and see if people keep running this apparently completely busted utility with chaotic interruption gone. And that honestly feels like it should be the conclusion/end of the thread for now.

Headshot is more spammable than MoD, w/o preparing time, w/o wasting an utility slot. PS: I used to play d/p dd better than s/d core before swipe If you were to spam Headshot, it has dedicated animation frames. This means that although you were laying down a chain of CCs, you wouldn't be dealing any damage while doing it. IF a Thief could somehow use Headshot as an instant cast like MOD, anytime it wanted to, while going in for offense with high damage skills, we'd have a problem on our hands. The Thief could rely on its boon removal vs stability, and fear no counterstrikes going in with chainable daze effects that happen simultaneously as it is attacking an opponent, because it would just routinely interrupt w/e the opponent was trying to do. No CC in the game is comparable to MOD, in terms of sheer versatility and what it is enabling Mesmers to do. I would say that all power Mesmer builds need it. Without it, they're too weak. Mes/Chrono are fine with even with condi. But Condi Mirage makes it look busted due to clone ambush spam. I don't think it needs nerfing or altering. But people need to stop trying to downplay the raw sheer strength behind MOD. The skill is strong as all hell and it's something Arenanet needs to be paying attention to while forming new skill patches and/or new specializations around it.Steal is a 1200 range instant interrupt (that also strips stab before daze)"I would say that all power builds need mantra" is just plainly false, the power mes with the by far best tournament results, zeromis, gets by fine with SoM and SoI for example. Power block literally does 800-1000 dmg on marauder, mantra is not at all mandatory.Like somebody said above, the design purpose of mantra of distraction is disruption, interrupting the enemy action. It harkens back to gw1 mesmer in my mind. That's why an appropriate nerf (if one is needed) might be to lower daze duration to 0.25-1 second. This cannot be compared to skills that are designed with the purpose of setting up followup attacks, like warrior hammer burst etc. That's how game design works, you have a purpose in mind and then balance to achive that purpose.To OP, I think CI is pretty stupid, has been since the start, but you are however correct that it is possible to play around it. In duels vs mesmers with mantra, you can fake cast a skill and quickly stow weapon to bait it out. To aid counterplay vs mantra, I have two thoughts: Disallow all interrupt traits (on all classes) to trigger on interrupting autoattacks.Add an indication of the mantra charges on the status bar (like we had before). I would personally move the "boons" row to a separate row below the "effects and skill indications" row.

Disabling the trait was absolutely a bad idea. As an fyi there was how long of a time where Helseth, a top player, was the ONLY person playing mesmer at all? If you think that mesmer is the most oppressive class the game has ever seen please feel free to remember 5 necro teams in ranked after Dhuumfire buff, 5 cele ele comps, cele meta in general, among a plethora of other specific cases where mesmer was not even to be seen. I understand that spamming your entire skill bar is "fun" but CI was the perfect counter to BAD play, punishing those who played on auto pilot instead of ACTIVELY using their brain cells. If you want an example of this I will be more than willing to link SEVERAL Boyce vods, alone, where CI mesmers get facerolled by holo; when CI was able to be beaten by SEVERAL classes on SEVERAL builds. The only applicable build for mirage now is power, specifically one of your team members builds, which I dare say, is just as mindless due to it's 10+ seconds of invuln and evade frames and interrupt spam on sword ambush, while dumping its burst (which is essentially a 1shot burst mind you). Condi mirage will now be a glass cannon who's cannonball is rendered absolutely useless to 1 fb, and will STILL get facerolled by holo. It's VERY interesting to me that not only are the monthly tournaments gone until further notice (aka until CI is "fixed" since they "forgot" to in the last patch) but any build that's not essentially a mirror is being nerfed into being unplayable or literally disabled from play. No worries though, there are still builds that will farm meta comps. Due to Anet's lack of CAPACITY for balancing this game, there will literally always be builds that are "degenerate." Side note: extremely unprofessional of a dev describing CI as "degenerate" when it's been unchanged for MONTHS and only saw play from an extreme minority of players (because the narrative was that the former IH build was the only viable one when in actuality Dune Cloak (now gutted as well) was a much better option), when the devs were the ones to pigeonhole the class into these kinds of playstyles from nerf after nerf after nerf to every other option. Second side note: You want to nerf mirage correctly? Start with IH, careful though, you might nerf power mirage too ;] You are so misinformed its unreal. This is the last time I'm posting here because clearly anyone defending CI lacks information and is probably low-mid gold. Firstly, when did I ever say IH wasn't a problem? And when did I say I couldn't deal with ci mirages? I have spent this entire season farming ci mirages ON NECRO and holo which has a much easier go of it. That doesn't mean the trait is okay because good players can deal with it. Being able to immobilize someone instantly off of daze mantra or a first tick chaos storm is NOT HEALTHY. An entire 3 seconds and it was such an epidemic for most people they had to disable it. The way the trait worked with that iteration of mirage IS degenerate. Mantras are instant and have no tell because the 'tradeoff XD' is that you have to charge it, well guess what you can charge mantra into your mirage cloak because balance. Now for IH it is so funny you mention that and try to act like I even care what happens in terms of balance when it comes to my team. Team USA will win no matter what we didnt farm every single team that plays by getting 'lucky' we all multiclass and will swap when needed. But the irony of your statement when it comes to IH is that I want IH to stay because of zeromis? You are so misinformed I legit cant believe some people like you exist. IH is a problem because of its interaction with staff and scepter(previously axe before nerfs) and how oppressive the condis were in terms of cover condis AND dmg. Do you even know how much damage IH does with power on sword/greatsword? It is a joke. Zeromis swapped to dune cloak for aoe boon steal in teamfights so your entire comments about that are invalid because if IH was deleted or disabled today we wouldnt care. Now for you mentioning other things being broken, unreal how even that went over your head. Other things were broken in gw2? XD really? didnt know xd. I thought that was obvious and anyone with a brain would be able to infer that. what I said was NOTHING was as oppressive as mesmer for THE ENTIRETY OF HOT AND POF. Scourge,spellbreaker,fb etc really all of them had some highs but none of those highs were as strong as mesmer and none were for that long. You mentioning dhuumfire scourge when it was broken for 2 weeks then anet nerfed it is comical, i am talking about almost the entirety of this games existence. Cele ele had a good run in core too, but when it got nerfed it never regained that kind of opness, but mesmer has been consistent. You really need to do more research or further understand how the mechanics of this game work before you start throwing out accusations, personal attacks, and extremely misinformed comments because even though I play at legend anytime I speak on balance I understand there is an entire scope of players that have to deal with certain things and top players 'dealing' with it doesnt equate to the average population(majority of players) can or want to. And that is how bad balance kills a competitive scene and people like you defending it are extremely dishonest with yourself or just outright selfish because you play it. Thinking the devs favour mesmer and discriminate against others is just stupid, the reason mesmer has been strong at times is because it is a difficult class to balance compared to, say, warrior, which is designed to be as simple and straightforward as possible. That's why it is generally a bad idea to add classes based on AI to PvP games.

When the problems are lying in core traitlines you have to nerf core. Like CI.On a propaganda lvl i even would say delete chaos and inspiration traitline completely and 99% of all mesmer player wouldn't have enough skill for mesmer anymore (end of propaganda). On a more serious node: Chaos and Inspiration are the most problematic traitlines on mesmer, they ever were. The traitlines which lower the skill ceiling and floor for the class remarkable. Every problematic mesmer build since game release always included one of these 2 traitlines or even both. No matter of elite specs we never had a problematic mesmer build without at least one of these 2 traitlines. The only exception is the duelling illusion condi mirage and that is mostly because of the general op design of condis and the problem that condi clones (staff, scepter, axe) have way to strong autoattacks and ambush attacks (high condistacks from npcs) compared to power weapons. On a non-propaganda lvl i would ask to rework all defensive traitlines on all classes (like warrior defense traitline) into something more active and with higher opportunity costs in dmg. Passive facetank sustain should be reduced to a minimum and active sutain shouldn't be nearly perma spammable. And most important: Builds with high sustain and/ or resustain (like Holo has high of both) should not do high dmg (Holo is also a hard cc machine in add like kitten). Saying never nerf core stuff is wrong, just as wrong as saying a build is not op or easy because it is "only" core. There are enough classes (and Mesmer is one of them) can make insanely braindead and strong core builds and only because of less mobility or utlity they are maybe less useful in conquest but that is a different story. You have to nerf the roots of the problems and when the problems are in core traitlines you have to nerf core. It is an almost game-wide problem i.e. that you can run defensive lines and still do enough damage (largely a fault of elite specs for example photon forge gives more than enough damage baseline so you can afford to run alchemy etc). Before 2015 this was mitigated by the fact that traitlines gave stats i.e. if you wanted power and ferocity you had to run domination, not just get it from an amulet.

Had to log in for this. First of all MoD isn't that strong or else it would have been more of an obvious choice than it has been, tell me how many mesmer tournament winners have used mantra. The reality is that SoM, SoI, illusionary ambush, arcane thievery are all competitive. And blink is far superior, so maybe we should halve blink range. Secondly, if you want to nerf it just copy arcane blast from ele to mesmer and make it daze instead.