Arheundel.6451

1 shot pu mesRidiculous op 1 shot from rangers and infinite escapes beforeridiculous stun spam 1 shot warrInsanely op aoe scourge spam fest.insane op spam from aoe firebrandaoe spam that was also insanely op and broken from herald. There is a reason why people complained about scourge, unless you think its skilful or rangers being able to practically 1 shot with greatsword and longbow procs and with soulbeast transformation Its not just the damage either, but sustain was also nerfed. Basically the reason invuln spam and things like that were so high, was because the damage was basically too high to survive. Only way to survive 1 shot meta is either to have perma block invuln, or have enough mobility to escape, and it so happens rangers had resetting abilities that were crazy good. Weavers too also had pretty nuts dmg with sustain, and none of this was healthy for the game, neither is being auto cc spammed and blown up in 2-3 seconds. ele can aoe cc spam a party of 5 in spvp for several seconds, and a mesmer can still blow them up in those seconds, happened in tournaments a few weeks agothere was invuln spam one shot builds and many broken things before, no one says the balance was perfect, but from my perspective it was betterthis thread was about fun, not necessarily balance thoughat least when a thief tried to one shot me, I could one shot him back(fun)I could macro 3v3I have the longest win streak of my history in this gamethe fights are boringmost fights, when we win, I realize I'm starring at the wallI press all the buttons and win nowI had to watch animations beforeI had to be aware of my surroundings beforenow its just whoever presses all the buttons firstworst part of this balance, you can't open certain loot bags in spvp, and cleaning inventory mid match leaves these bags behind The difference is the ability to one shot was lowered from what it was. The so-called time to kill is increased, making fights last longer. I do believe invuln was touched somehow on mesmers reduced and guardians were probably touched in ways i don't know. I know that some stuff was already touched that was recent and thats important to mention. You didn't mention the modifiers nerfed for rangers pet and damage on bow greatsword and other stuff, or mobility and sustain spam and even stab spam. Huge amount of stuff was nerfed, and i think it was for a good reason, because pof simply created way too much power creep. I also think its probably a good idea to not make specs (reaper for instance) to be instantly a upgrade. If i go and play firebrand, it should be a different playstyle, not necessarily superior to all other guardian specs, same with mesmers, and this was problematic in the past. Also what you on about? thief damage is nowhere near as strong as it used to be. Sure they can hit hard, but not insanity levels of damage they used to have with their weapons and with daredevil. Remember the camper daredevils who used to 2 shot from range with 0 counterplay and from stealth? Also condi teef got nerfed recently as well. I didn't mention most of it because it's endlessjust went and done another 3v3, pressed all buttons, wonmy heal does almost 2x the damage of my other utilities, 20x the damage of my eliteenemy had a burn guardian with some gross damage, 0 effort to kill himwasn't funI'm not saying the entire 2/25 patch was badele was capable of using invulnerability while casting an unblock-able 1 shot before, that was brokenwarrior, and rev to this day are healed by incoming damage, that is poor designbroad unspecific ratio reductions left the game noncompetitive, unbalanced, and plainly mundaneUnblockable burst on ele never existed...furthermore for a good while people had been playing FA weaver with a burst impossible to execute while attuned to earth and using focus, after that they changed OF to what it's now and that was already before the patch One shot is not fun at all....if it was you would not complain about ele ability to one shot, JI burst on guardian is no less broken than what ele could do, let's remember hammer 2 + JI mid animation burst...that was extremely easy and several times more broken than ele burst up to that moment. There is nothing skillful about teleport burst using skills like : Judge's intervention - Phase traversal etc ect etc , bypassing visible obstacles while delivering insta burst , everything was mitigated by chaining blocks/evasions etc etc..nothing skillfull about that either. It takes one day to learn the rotation....it's not rocket science, I did ..anybody can.....nobody is special, this is a casual PvE MMO....not some skill intensive social online experiment, it's about time people get off their high horse This is a MMO...not Overwatch or Call of Duty online, if people enjoy that kind of gameplay , they're free to leave

....Like every other time before ..somehow the "current meta" is always the worst and one before was way better but in truth the only good meta for each individual is where they win everytime with their class of choice...I rest my case

So demanding removal of clearly unbalanced, broken, overstacked stuff that makes people just go straight for uninstall is not okay?Actually, as a customers, we do have a right to "demand" or rather ask for things if you like it or not, if these things will be "delivered" though it's a different story.You're kinda going against your own words in that post...You say " nobody has the rights to demand the removal of something simply because it's "unfun" to play against" and then "Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their", which is it then? There were/are things in the game that are clearly unbalanced/broken that need either complete removal or rework since they're overstacked too much without much counterplay. I see no connection between what can be considered broken/overperforming and what may force you to uninstall , if you'd be so kind to provide an example...It's gonna be difficult to write everything that was broken, so I'll just put few examples of pre-nerfed state builds: Condi Mirage(all versions, iframe spam says hi), Condi Thief(even currently is kitten, condi spam says hi), Druid(side-noder, ancient seed spam says hi), Warrior(all versions, overstacked Full-counter/rampage says hi), Chronomancer(bunker and phantasm says hi), Fireweaver(condi/evasion spam says hi), Hambow(stunlock says hi), Turret Engi(AI says hi), Minionmancer(AI says hi) and many more that made people quit since 2012.Don't know about you, but I don't think a lot of people enjoy being trashed without any kind of counterplay, even if they were trying to tune their build to counter XYZ, some were straight-up uncounterable.Like 1shots from stealth, overspam of condies, unkillable bunkers(current era to a degree). A lot of people quit because of memes like that. This thread was never against the idea of removing OP specs and more against the idea that removing what makes a class competitive should be removed, toning down is one thing....completely removing the build is another. If one spec is supposed to be duel...then don't go and ask to remove everything that makes that build capable of duelling in the first place: -a side noder must have enough sustain to against sudden +1 if not it cannot be a side noder....no I don't mean being able to 1vs3+ for hours-a support spec must be able to sustain enough pressure if not it cannot support anybody...no I don't mean being able to hold all enemy team for 5m+-a burst spec supposed to burst you down...no I don't mean one shot from stealth...but enough to scare you or kill you if can't react fast enough Removal of what annoys you =/ balance let's all make this straight once and for all Ur not wrong man, been in this game coming on 7 yrs now and barely play but the community has gotten progressively worse as literally any skill or tactic a class uses to be effective will naturally spawn a nerf post here and there but in this community they'll be spammed. Then after some time anet devs who can't balance on their own accord will nerf the class so that skill or tactic is useless all while far more problematic skills and tactics go unchanged due to them being more accepted either thru class popularity or simply not being one of the few classes constantly hated on by the community.The funny thing is the community wonders why the population is abysmally low and declining and on top complain about build deversity. The games basically amounted to everyone picking the most brainless cheese carry build in hope's to be effective against players doing the same. So many things in this games pvp need to be reworked including anets devs approach regarding the modes. You defend revenants saying they're balanced...while a team win a monthly tournaments with 3 revs in it....wvw is full of Mallyx revs from small scale roaming to frontline zerging and GvG fights.....sidenoders in pvp...unkillable sidenoders with enough experience........in the same instance you claim that tempest is broken lol when every team with a tempest lost to FB team, tempests don't get stacked in WvW and neither can roam, can't sidenode for kitten and yet...revenant is balanced while tempest is broken..such an example of integrity you are That's the exact mentality I'm speaking about. Revs are not a easy class to play, lower ranks u see a rev usually their free kills. Their high evades/sustain require using properly times evade frames from skills, one block on staff, shiro roll back requiring energy resource and a heal that needs to be used while taking decent dps for it to be very effective. Yeah revs a monster if ur a good player which is how it should be and I also other classes should be brought up to that lv of effectiveness for the work put in. I'm against classes mechanics like necro where u spam and when close to death press a keybind and bam second hp bar with damage reduction, thsts brainless, add in fear spam and awesome. Or guards that stand in one spot even low rank spamming condi's and sustain skill and being far more effective than they should be for work put in just like necro. Or maybe spam autos from range while a pet hits as hard as a player and when u focus pet as many say u just allow the ranger to keep free hitting u than if u get in close bam barrier, protection and stability or trap dropped and invisible with superspeed. The game is filled with brainless spam carry builds due to anets inability to balance a all classes do everything approach and it's best to nerf a effective class that requires skill to play? How many top streamers that are viewed as very highly skilled in the game tried rev since last patch drop and continued to do so and didnt go back to their main? None. They all usually make comments when jumping on power rev and state "I'm not great on rev but I'm rolling it cuz team needs one".Rev is one of the few classes that require skill to be effective in high tier play and is separate from half these brainless spam classes that yeah ur ranger now falls into and the community wants it nerfed lol no surprise.Also it's not black and white sometime classes are stacked due to them being effective which doesn't always equate to OP just like skills and tactics that are effective don't automatically mean their op, where does this mentality come from?It's easy to tell if a build is being stacked due to being OP or brainless but still effective such as post nerf core necro, condi rev/ren, cindi thief, all burn specs that spam burns due to the burst dps burn tics do post patch vs power dps, condo and power ranger due to multiple brainless effective build possibilities and so on.Also a class that's dominant when stacked doesn't inherently make a spec op as thsts the fault of the system allowing class stacking and a class system promoting low class diversity. If a class is nerfed so its ineffective having 2 on a team how do u nerf that in a way that allows having one to remain effective? If having two is a detriment in a game designed with all classes do everything method than one would be detrimental as well as that method of thinking would only work in a game with holly trinity as having 3 dps and 2 tanks with no healer would be a detriment. If the classes you complain about would be as strong as you say...then we would see much more of them at high tier and yet...this doesn't happen, TOP players are supposed to be even more devastating on a class and yet...they pick rev over ranger or guardian or ele when these classes stop being viable at the top. If the way revs sustain themselves is the only fair one to fight..then it should be extended to everybody else while removing the current ones and yet..you complain about sword weaver which was based on the same idea of evading incoming attacks...but people called it OP...so eles should have heal burst?!...no people called it OP...and this goes for all other professions you see?! How exactly would you give the same tools that revs has to avoid instant death to another profession? Well for one ranger is being played in top tier matches again these days and u saying power shiro rev is easier to be as equally as effective compared to slbeast or core ranger? Cuz lol. A rev may have a higher skill ceiling than say ranger but its skill floor is significantly higher so... if its impossible to have actual perfect overall balance would u rather this scanario or the class with a lower skill floor also be able to match a class with a higher skill floor and ceiling when two equally skilled players are playing the two? I'll use ranger as a example as I kno u play it. I say buff rangers skill ceiling or potential to match revs while reworking all of its brainless carry mechanics out of it making it require more thoughtful play and skill to be effective with or nerf revs skill ceiling down so skilled players arnt monsters on it but add in some of condi revs brainless spam playstyle into power rev successfully dumbing the build down. What sounds healthier for the game? I have asked how would you accomplish this skill ceiling buff on other classes? You claim that revenant sustain/dmg ratio is balanced while being based on the timing of inbuilt evades and block/heal/boon uptime; at this point I wonder how would you make so that 2 skilled players ,one on a rev and another playing a different profession, would have a balanced fight with equal chance to take each one out. Between Glint aoe/elite and sword off hand ranged onehit burst, 2 teleports, all boons uptime (minus resistance without mallyx) , block/dash with staff........please why don't you try to explain me how we can match that same level of burst/sustain on other professions with something that you don't consider cheese? If were talking ranger as a example I'd drop the damage so hard on passive pet damage but have the pet skills when melded have good damage, id increase the CD on maul and make a successful hilt bash reduce CD by 50% not out right remove the cd(stupid carry design) the damage is already fine on maul. I'd speed up the ranger autos significantly and put the evade back in between the second and last sword hit cuz if u can time that last hit to avoid significant damage than the ranger should be rewarded with a evade, hilt bash also should get some damage returned to it as should a lot off the hard cc skill,not all but a lot of them. The long bow rapid fire damage is fine but CD should be be slightly increased, for braindead spam purposes lb autos should be unaffected by damage multipliers or boons. I could go on and I know in ways this sounds like a nerf but if these types of things are applied to all classes it wouldn't be bad. Traps like guards should have the cd stars to reset on activation not when placed so they cant be placed a second time on a opponent who just activated it. This game is so full of bad carry designs it's crazy.Those "changes" would influence my experience on ranger/guardian by at least....5% out of 100%. Some players can adapt and evolve..others cannot and will keep on losing , no amount of nerfs will ever change that

As I said before, no they don't. Their main damage overload was nerfed hard years ago. They don't run ANY damage lines if you are full heal auramancer. Earth/Water no LR to proc with stuns. So what exactly are YOU dying to? Not their dagger? Not their overloads? If a tempest is surviving, that's good because that means they are KITING like every proper player should be doing. Do you complain about Scrapper when they kite and do damage? Because i've seen plenty of players die (including to me) to bunker scrappers in plat 1-2. So what's REALLY the issue here? Man I can be on war with 24k hp and most of my hp is gone from that bs lightning strike alone, no the dps is fine.The balance in this game is completely ruined. Uve git high sustain classes/builds now running around out bursting squishy classes. Condi tics matching power bursts-per fing tics. Anet reduces duration but the reaplication on some classes is so high and often plus with the high damage per tic the reduction in duration was stupid. The duration should have stayed where it was and damage per tic reduced especially on burning and bleeds that way it actually does its damage over time like their sopose to but instead condis burst, its something else this game lol. People really arnt interested in this game being in a healthier state, just want the annoying builds deleted and the more popular builds OP. Never gonna change. Pls I jump on my warrior and you try to kill me with a tempest...I dare you...you have to play the support tempest not some meme dps tempest, I want you to run same support build as seen on metabattle , no stability trait and then I want you to down my warrior with air overload...I dare you again to come now in PvP Are u serious, man u can go on current streams and watch for urself, sind talking about em, noody laughing at its sustain and damage. I'm sry man just cuz u play the class doesn't mean people are wrong mentioning its issues. So I gues those instances were all isolated eh? There a reason why all the sudden tempests are being seen so often. When a class is barely played then after a patch is not just seen more often but way more often theres a reason. So the spec was "balanced" before the patch because the dmg was so high it could not be played....it looks like now I play ele too, on top of ranger and guardian and warrior....I play so many and yet I am being called the biased one...while your "heroes" just play thief. This @sindreneer does nothing but whine all day about every class that best his thief....what will he complain after that? core ele? staff ele because he dies while standing on a lava font? We can all say we play all sorts of classes, ur called bias cuz u claim the classes u actually play as fine when their overperforming and claim other classes u "play" that are basically agreed upon throughout the community as being on the weaker side as being fine when people complain that the class is weak lolYou basically refuse to come in game while still claiming that I am lying about me playing several classes......whatever....People have asked for nerfs on ele countless times...countless times ele has been nerfed.....some people still win on ele even on the nerfed specs/traits...and people still ask for nerfs on ele in 2020 ...talking about overperforming specs xd. In the end those who win will keep winning and those losing will keep on losing , it all goes back to the thread started by @Supreme.3164 , he's 100% right..it only shows how some people don't realize when they reach the ceiling of their skill level and will start blaming it on the game instead than improving.

As I said before, no they don't. Their main damage overload was nerfed hard years ago. They don't run ANY damage lines if you are full heal auramancer. Earth/Water no LR to proc with stuns. So what exactly are YOU dying to? Not their dagger? Not their overloads? If a tempest is surviving, that's good because that means they are KITING like every proper player should be doing. Do you complain about Scrapper when they kite and do damage? Because i've seen plenty of players die (including to me) to bunker scrappers in plat 1-2. So what's REALLY the issue here? Man I can be on war with 24k hp and most of my hp is gone from that bs lightning strike alone, no the dps is fine.The balance in this game is completely ruined. Uve git high sustain classes/builds now running around out bursting squishy classes. Condi tics matching power bursts-per fing tics. Anet reduces duration but the reaplication on some classes is so high and often plus with the high damage per tic the reduction in duration was stupid. The duration should have stayed where it was and damage per tic reduced especially on burning and bleeds that way it actually does its damage over time like their sopose to but instead condis burst, its something else this game lol. People really arnt interested in this game being in a healthier state, just want the annoying builds deleted and the more popular builds OP. Never gonna change. Pls I jump on my warrior and you try to kill me with a tempest...I dare you...you have to play the support tempest not some meme dps tempest, I want you to run same support build as seen on metabattle , no stability trait and then I want you to down my warrior with air overload...I dare you again to come now in PvP Are u serious, man u can go on current streams and watch for urself, sind talking about em, noody laughing at its sustain and damage. I'm sry man just cuz u play the class doesn't mean people are wrong mentioning its issues. So I gues those instances were all isolated eh? There a reason why all the sudden tempests are being seen so often. When a class is barely played then after a patch is not just seen more often but way more often theres a reason.So the spec was "balanced" before the patch because the dmg was so high it could not be played....it looks like now I play ele too, on top of ranger and guardian and warrior....I play so many and yet I am being called the biased one...while your "heroes" just play thief. This @sindreneer does nothing but whine all day about every class that best his thief....what will he complain after that? core ele? staff ele because he dies while standing on a lava font? P.S are you taking note of all the classes I have knowledge about? Just invited you to face my warrior, a class you claimed I never played

As I said before, no they don't. Their main damage overload was nerfed hard years ago. They don't run ANY damage lines if you are full heal auramancer. Earth/Water no LR to proc with stuns. So what exactly are YOU dying to? Not their dagger? Not their overloads? If a tempest is surviving, that's good because that means they are KITING like every proper player should be doing. Do you complain about Scrapper when they kite and do damage? Because i've seen plenty of players die (including to me) to bunker scrappers in plat 1-2. So what's REALLY the issue here? Man I can be on war with 24k hp and most of my hp is gone from that bs lightning strike alone, no the dps is fine.The balance in this game is completely ruined. Uve git high sustain classes/builds now running around out bursting squishy classes. Condi tics matching power bursts-per fing tics. Anet reduces duration but the reaplication on some classes is so high and often plus with the high damage per tic the reduction in duration was stupid. The duration should have stayed where it was and damage per tic reduced especially on burning and bleeds that way it actually does its damage over time like their sopose to but instead condis burst, its something else this game lol. People really arnt interested in this game being in a healthier state, just want the annoying builds deleted and the more popular builds OP. Never gonna change.Pls I jump on my warrior and you try to kill me with a tempest...I dare you...you have to play the support tempest not some meme dps tempest, I want you to run same support build as seen on metabattle , no stability trait and then I want you to down my warrior with air overload...I dare you again to come now in PvP

So demanding removal of clearly unbalanced, broken, overstacked stuff that makes people just go straight for uninstall is not okay?Actually, as a customers, we do have a right to "demand" or rather ask for things if you like it or not, if these things will be "delivered" though it's a different story.You're kinda going against your own words in that post...You say " nobody has the rights to demand the removal of something simply because it's "unfun" to play against" and then "Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their", which is it then? There were/are things in the game that are clearly unbalanced/broken that need either complete removal or rework since they're overstacked too much without much counterplay. I see no connection between what can be considered broken/overperforming and what may force you to uninstall , if you'd be so kind to provide an example...It's gonna be difficult to write everything that was broken, so I'll just put few examples of pre-nerfed state builds: Condi Mirage(all versions, iframe spam says hi), Condi Thief(even currently is kitten, condi spam says hi), Druid(side-noder, ancient seed spam says hi), Warrior(all versions, overstacked Full-counter/rampage says hi), Chronomancer(bunker and phantasm says hi), Fireweaver(condi/evasion spam says hi), Hambow(stunlock says hi), Turret Engi(AI says hi), Minionmancer(AI says hi) and many more that made people quit since 2012.Don't know about you, but I don't think a lot of people enjoy being trashed without any kind of counterplay, even if they were trying to tune their build to counter XYZ, some were straight-up uncounterable.Like 1shots from stealth, overspam of condies, unkillable bunkers(current era to a degree). A lot of people quit because of memes like that. This thread was never against the idea of removing OP specs and more against the idea that removing what makes a class competitive should be removed, toning down is one thing....completely removing the build is another. If one spec is supposed to be duel...then don't go and ask to remove everything that makes that build capable of duelling in the first place: -a side noder must have enough sustain to against sudden +1 if not it cannot be a side noder....no I don't mean being able to 1vs3+ for hours-a support spec must be able to sustain enough pressure if not it cannot support anybody...no I don't mean being able to hold all enemy team for 5m+-a burst spec supposed to burst you down...no I don't mean one shot from stealth...but enough to scare you or kill you if can't react fast enough Removal of what annoys you =/ balance let's all make this straight once and for all Ur not wrong man, been in this game coming on 7 yrs now and barely play but the community has gotten progressively worse as literally any skill or tactic a class uses to be effective will naturally spawn a nerf post here and there but in this community they'll be spammed. Then after some time anet devs who can't balance on their own accord will nerf the class so that skill or tactic is useless all while far more problematic skills and tactics go unchanged due to them being more accepted either thru class popularity or simply not being one of the few classes constantly hated on by the community.The funny thing is the community wonders why the population is abysmally low and declining and on top complain about build deversity. The games basically amounted to everyone picking the most brainless cheese carry build in hope's to be effective against players doing the same. So many things in this games pvp need to be reworked including anets devs approach regarding the modes. You defend revenants saying they're balanced...while a team win a monthly tournaments with 3 revs in it....wvw is full of Mallyx revs from small scale roaming to frontline zerging and GvG fights.....sidenoders in pvp...unkillable sidenoders with enough experience........in the same instance you claim that tempest is broken lol when every team with a tempest lost to FB team, tempests don't get stacked in WvW and neither can roam, can't sidenode for kitten and yet...revenant is balanced while tempest is broken..such an example of integrity you are That's the exact mentality I'm speaking about. Revs are not a easy class to play, lower ranks u see a rev usually their free kills. Their high evades/sustain require using properly times evade frames from skills, one block on staff, shiro roll back requiring energy resource and a heal that needs to be used while taking decent dps for it to be very effective. Yeah revs a monster if ur a good player which is how it should be and I also other classes should be brought up to that lv of effectiveness for the work put in. I'm against classes mechanics like necro where u spam and when close to death press a keybind and bam second hp bar with damage reduction, thsts brainless, add in fear spam and awesome. Or guards that stand in one spot even low rank spamming condi's and sustain skill and being far more effective than they should be for work put in just like necro. Or maybe spam autos from range while a pet hits as hard as a player and when u focus pet as many say u just allow the ranger to keep free hitting u than if u get in close bam barrier, protection and stability or trap dropped and invisible with superspeed. The game is filled with brainless spam carry builds due to anets inability to balance a all classes do everything approach and it's best to nerf a effective class that requires skill to play? How many top streamers that are viewed as very highly skilled in the game tried rev since last patch drop and continued to do so and didnt go back to their main? None. They all usually make comments when jumping on power rev and state "I'm not great on rev but I'm rolling it cuz team needs one".Rev is one of the few classes that require skill to be effective in high tier play and is separate from half these brainless spam classes that yeah ur ranger now falls into and the community wants it nerfed lol no surprise.Also it's not black and white sometime classes are stacked due to them being effective which doesn't always equate to OP just like skills and tactics that are effective don't automatically mean their op, where does this mentality come from?It's easy to tell if a build is being stacked due to being OP or brainless but still effective such as post nerf core necro, condi rev/ren, cindi thief, all burn specs that spam burns due to the burst dps burn tics do post patch vs power dps, condo and power ranger due to multiple brainless effective build possibilities and so on.Also a class that's dominant when stacked doesn't inherently make a spec op as thsts the fault of the system allowing class stacking and a class system promoting low class diversity. If a class is nerfed so its ineffective having 2 on a team how do u nerf that in a way that allows having one to remain effective? If having two is a detriment in a game designed with all classes do everything method than one would be detrimental as well as that method of thinking would only work in a game with holly trinity as having 3 dps and 2 tanks with no healer would be a detriment. If the classes you complain about would be as strong as you say...then we would see much more of them at high tier and yet...this doesn't happen, TOP players are supposed to be even more devastating on a class and yet...they pick rev over ranger or guardian or ele when these classes stop being viable at the top. If the way revs sustain themselves is the only fair one to fight..then it should be extended to everybody else while removing the current ones and yet..you complain about sword weaver which was based on the same idea of evading incoming attacks...but people called it OP...so eles should have heal burst?!...no people called it OP...and this goes for all other professions you see?! How exactly would you give the same tools that revs has to avoid instant death to another profession? Well for one ranger is being played in top tier matches again these days and u saying power shiro rev is easier to be as equally as effective compared to slbeast or core ranger? Cuz lol. A rev may have a higher skill ceiling than say ranger but its skill floor is significantly higher so... if its impossible to have actual perfect overall balance would u rather this scanario or the class with a lower skill floor also be able to match a class with a higher skill floor and ceiling when two equally skilled players are playing the two? I'll use ranger as a example as I kno u play it. I say buff rangers skill ceiling or potential to match revs while reworking all of its brainless carry mechanics out of it making it require more thoughtful play and skill to be effective with or nerf revs skill ceiling down so skilled players arnt monsters on it but add in some of condi revs brainless spam playstyle into power rev successfully dumbing the build down. What sounds healthier for the game?I have asked how would you accomplish this skill ceiling buff on other classes? You claim that revenant sustain/dmg ratio is balanced while being based on the timing of inbuilt evades and block/heal/boon uptime; at this point I wonder how would you make so that 2 skilled players ,one on a rev and another playing a different profession, would have a balanced fight with equal chance to take each one out. Between Glint aoe/elite and sword off hand ranged onehit burst, 2 teleports, all boons uptime (minus resistance without mallyx) , block/dash with staff........please why don't you try to explain me how we can match that same level of burst/sustain on other professions with something that you don't consider cheese?

Those who enjoyed prepatch game simply played specs with high sustain and burst dmg combined in a single build ...low risk=high reward builds -25 might spam spellbreakers-soulbeast/core rangers-holosmiths-condi mirages, mirages in general-daredevils, deadeyes-symbolbrands These specs had it all with a single build : condi clear/dmg and sustain with 3 traitlines enough to teamfight-sidenode-duel with a single build ( spellbreaker-holosmtih-symbolbrand-soulbeast/core ranger- condi mirage) or roam/duel like thieves. Some like to mention "fire weaver" which at the time had already been nerfed with sword water/earth increased CD and primordial stance dmg nerf; by Feb 2020 the spec was already out of meta and barely played up to plat1 , relegated to "good" section on metabattle...

So demanding removal of clearly unbalanced, broken, overstacked stuff that makes people just go straight for uninstall is not okay?Actually, as a customers, we do have a right to "demand" or rather ask for things if you like it or not, if these things will be "delivered" though it's a different story.You're kinda going against your own words in that post...You say " nobody has the rights to demand the removal of something simply because it's "unfun" to play against" and then "Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their", which is it then? There were/are things in the game that are clearly unbalanced/broken that need either complete removal or rework since they're overstacked too much without much counterplay. I see no connection between what can be considered broken/overperforming and what may force you to uninstall , if you'd be so kind to provide an example...It's gonna be difficult to write everything that was broken, so I'll just put few examples of pre-nerfed state builds: Condi Mirage(all versions, iframe spam says hi), Condi Thief(even currently is kitten, condi spam says hi), Druid(side-noder, ancient seed spam says hi), Warrior(all versions, overstacked Full-counter/rampage says hi), Chronomancer(bunker and phantasm says hi), Fireweaver(condi/evasion spam says hi), Hambow(stunlock says hi), Turret Engi(AI says hi), Minionmancer(AI says hi) and many more that made people quit since 2012.Don't know about you, but I don't think a lot of people enjoy being trashed without any kind of counterplay, even if they were trying to tune their build to counter XYZ, some were straight-up uncounterable.Like 1shots from stealth, overspam of condies, unkillable bunkers(current era to a degree). A lot of people quit because of memes like that. This thread was never against the idea of removing OP specs and more against the idea that removing what makes a class competitive should be removed, toning down is one thing....completely removing the build is another. If one spec is supposed to be duel...then don't go and ask to remove everything that makes that build capable of duelling in the first place: -a side noder must have enough sustain to against sudden +1 if not it cannot be a side noder....no I don't mean being able to 1vs3+ for hours-a support spec must be able to sustain enough pressure if not it cannot support anybody...no I don't mean being able to hold all enemy team for 5m+-a burst spec supposed to burst you down...no I don't mean one shot from stealth...but enough to scare you or kill you if can't react fast enough Removal of what annoys you =/ balance let's all make this straight once and for all Ur not wrong man, been in this game coming on 7 yrs now and barely play but the community has gotten progressively worse as literally any skill or tactic a class uses to be effective will naturally spawn a nerf post here and there but in this community they'll be spammed. Then after some time anet devs who can't balance on their own accord will nerf the class so that skill or tactic is useless all while far more problematic skills and tactics go unchanged due to them being more accepted either thru class popularity or simply not being one of the few classes constantly hated on by the community.The funny thing is the community wonders why the population is abysmally low and declining and on top complain about build deversity. The games basically amounted to everyone picking the most brainless cheese carry build in hope's to be effective against players doing the same. So many things in this games pvp need to be reworked including anets devs approach regarding the modes. You defend revenants saying they're balanced...while a team win a monthly tournaments with 3 revs in it....wvw is full of Mallyx revs from small scale roaming to frontline zerging and GvG fights.....sidenoders in pvp...unkillable sidenoders with enough experience........in the same instance you claim that tempest is broken lol when every team with a tempest lost to FB team, tempests don't get stacked in WvW and neither can roam, can't sidenode for kitten and yet...revenant is balanced while tempest is broken..such an example of integrity you are That's the exact mentality I'm speaking about. Revs are not a easy class to play, lower ranks u see a rev usually their free kills. Their high evades/sustain require using properly times evade frames from skills, one block on staff, shiro roll back requiring energy resource and a heal that needs to be used while taking decent dps for it to be very effective. Yeah revs a monster if ur a good player which is how it should be and I also other classes should be brought up to that lv of effectiveness for the work put in. I'm against classes mechanics like necro where u spam and when close to death press a keybind and bam second hp bar with damage reduction, thsts brainless, add in fear spam and awesome. Or guards that stand in one spot even low rank spamming condi's and sustain skill and being far more effective than they should be for work put in just like necro. Or maybe spam autos from range while a pet hits as hard as a player and when u focus pet as many say u just allow the ranger to keep free hitting u than if u get in close bam barrier, protection and stability or trap dropped and invisible with superspeed. The game is filled with brainless spam carry builds due to anets inability to balance a all classes do everything approach and it's best to nerf a effective class that requires skill to play? How many top streamers that are viewed as very highly skilled in the game tried rev since last patch drop and continued to do so and didnt go back to their main? None. They all usually make comments when jumping on power rev and state "I'm not great on rev but I'm rolling it cuz team needs one".Rev is one of the few classes that require skill to be effective in high tier play and is separate from half these brainless spam classes that yeah ur ranger now falls into and the community wants it nerfed lol no surprise.Also it's not black and white sometime classes are stacked due to them being effective which doesn't always equate to OP just like skills and tactics that are effective don't automatically mean their op, where does this mentality come from?It's easy to tell if a build is being stacked due to being OP or brainless but still effective such as post nerf core necro, condi rev/ren, cindi thief, all burn specs that spam burns due to the burst dps burn tics do post patch vs power dps, condo and power ranger due to multiple brainless effective build possibilities and so on.Also a class that's dominant when stacked doesn't inherently make a spec op as thsts the fault of the system allowing class stacking and a class system promoting low class diversity. If a class is nerfed so its ineffective having 2 on a team how do u nerf that in a way that allows having one to remain effective? If having two is a detriment in a game designed with all classes do everything method than one would be detrimental as well as that method of thinking would only work in a game with holly trinity as having 3 dps and 2 tanks with no healer would be a detriment.If the classes you complain about would be as strong as you say...then we would see much more of them at high tier and yet...this doesn't happen, TOP players are supposed to be even more devastating on a class and yet...they pick rev over ranger or guardian or ele when these classes stop being viable at the top. If the way revs sustain themselves is the only fair one to fight..then it should be extended to everybody else while removing the current ones and yet..you complain about sword weaver which was based on the same idea of evading incoming attacks...but people called it OP...so eles should have heal burst?!...no people called it OP...and this goes for all other professions you see?! How exactly would you give the same tools that revs has to avoid instant death to another profession?

We already out here getting hit by 10k trueshots lol, lower defenses? That's the problem with gw2, I've got classes that are tank/dps classes instead of one not being great at the other. Gustds and fb are suport specs yet can burst like a dps class, dh can be very tanky while dpsing as well, temp can do the same.Anet needs to decide what each spec is soposed to excel in cuz as it stands a few classes are excelling in everything and these are the ones constantly spammed in matches etc. Like some specs can duel/burst and team fight....hey there revenants...how is your rev main?...oh wait let's not leave out holosmiths or core necros, the classes in the clip seems to be a rev against another rev...yet you dare to say that tempest can do better...the bias is real

How about, if you don't find a certain game fun, play another game instead of ruining someone else's fun by trying to force changes? Because people like this game but are also inherently selfish and biased. My fun >>>> your fun. Far to any forum posts boil down to "I don't like it so please remove/change/nerf." A competitive game can't survive if everyone leaves. . . Also, people on these forums would do well to stop thinking in an "us vs them" mentality. I doubt anyone really feels like a particular class should be nerfed so hard that it's completely nonviable and nobody plays it. Way wrong on the last point, there are people who consistently ask to delete that and that spec

So demanding removal of clearly unbalanced, broken, overstacked stuff that makes people just go straight for uninstall is not okay?Actually, as a customers, we do have a right to "demand" or rather ask for things if you like it or not, if these things will be "delivered" though it's a different story.You're kinda going against your own words in that post...You say " nobody has the rights to demand the removal of something simply because it's "unfun" to play against" and then "Other players should have the same chances to kill your class just as much as you should have against their", which is it then? There were/are things in the game that are clearly unbalanced/broken that need either complete removal or rework since they're overstacked too much without much counterplay. I see no connection between what can be considered broken/overperforming and what may force you to uninstall , if you'd be so kind to provide an example...It's gonna be difficult to write everything that was broken, so I'll just put few examples of pre-nerfed state builds: Condi Mirage(all versions, iframe spam says hi), Condi Thief(even currently is kitten, condi spam says hi), Druid(side-noder, ancient seed spam says hi), Warrior(all versions, overstacked Full-counter/rampage says hi), Chronomancer(bunker and phantasm says hi), Fireweaver(condi/evasion spam says hi), Hambow(stunlock says hi), Turret Engi(AI says hi), Minionmancer(AI says hi) and many more that made people quit since 2012.Don't know about you, but I don't think a lot of people enjoy being trashed without any kind of counterplay, even if they were trying to tune their build to counter XYZ, some were straight-up uncounterable.Like 1shots from stealth, overspam of condies, unkillable bunkers(current era to a degree). A lot of people quit because of memes like that. This thread was never against the idea of removing OP specs and more against the idea that removing what makes a class competitive should be removed, toning down is one thing....completely removing the build is another. If one spec is supposed to be duel...then don't go and ask to remove everything that makes that build capable of duelling in the first place: -a side noder must have enough sustain to against sudden +1 if not it cannot be a side noder....no I don't mean being able to 1vs3+ for hours-a support spec must be able to sustain enough pressure if not it cannot support anybody...no I don't mean being able to hold all enemy team for 5m+-a burst spec supposed to burst you down...no I don't mean one shot from stealth...but enough to scare you or kill you if can't react fast enough Removal of what annoys you =/ balance let's all make this straight once and for all Ur not wrong man, been in this game coming on 7 yrs now and barely play but the community has gotten progressively worse as literally any skill or tactic a class uses to be effective will naturally spawn a nerf post here and there but in this community they'll be spammed. Then after some time anet devs who can't balance on their own accord will nerf the class so that skill or tactic is useless all while far more problematic skills and tactics go unchanged due to them being more accepted either thru class popularity or simply not being one of the few classes constantly hated on by the community.The funny thing is the community wonders why the population is abysmally low and declining and on top complain about build deversity. The games basically amounted to everyone picking the most brainless cheese carry build in hope's to be effective against players doing the same. So many things in this games pvp need to be reworked including anets devs approach regarding the modes.You defend revenants saying they're balanced...while a team win a monthly tournaments with 3 revs in it....wvw is full of Mallyx revs from small scale roaming to frontline zerging and GvG fights.....sidenoders in pvp...unkillable sidenoders with enough experience........in the same instance you claim that tempest is broken lol when every team with a tempest lost to FB team, tempests don't get stacked in WvW and neither can roam, can't sidenode for shit and yet...revenant is balanced while tempest is broken..such an example of integrity you are

Use youtube videos like this : Subscribe to @Vallun , he has many useful guides for new players1- Always have at least 3 stunbreaks on your build if you just start , 2 stunbreak + invulnerability utility would be ideal2-Use amulets with toughness and have at least 1500 toughness at all time when starting in pvp3- Condi clear is essential, the more the better in good measure4- Don't play hero..never do that, jumping into a 1vs3 to "ress" an ally will most times than not leave your team -2 players once you die too5- Stick to 2-3 professions no matters what, no matter the balance and no matter what others say6- practice-practice and practice some more : 1v1 all other classes, read GW2 wiki , all to learn skill/utilities animations. Good luck and ignore the trolls/haters

Lower skilled players always going to gravitate towards high reward=low effort build...reason why "nobody" roams with a tanky build and why you only see gank groups of thieves/rev/scrapper cheesing their way to victory...it's nice to know there is something out there that can curb the "fun experience" of cheese abusers and anyway make no mistake OP. Under no circumstances you will keep your dmg/cheese burst in case defenses get lowered...don't even start dreaming about it, if there would be no more "tank" specs then there would be no reason to keep cheese burst in the game also

Let me correct you on one small thing : the average person knows what equality is....but equality does not translate to fun because fun=easy kill......no matter what anybody may tell you, deep down every player is the same fun=easy kill, consciously or subconsciously players and devs alike will move their personal agenda towards that goal. Look at thief players suggesting you to "run" away from DE...the same players then go and complain about other classes, what should we tell them in that occasion?..."just run away" would be the answer

"Very sustainy ele" ???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......what game are you playing? GW2 on servers with 2013 version?. If there is a very sustainy ele build in wvw....when playing boonbeast...I should be reported for hacking xd Good lord...they are hundreds of necros per map...every day in wvw...with the occasional Tempest playing with zergs....there are bloody hundreds of necros and this guy talk about "very sustainy ele"..just what in the name of all is holy is going on?

In WvW right now there are specs that are virtually immune to direct dmg a combination of high boon uptime and unnerfed sustain traitlines compared to PvP plus nerfed direct dmg...makes some specs practically impossible to kill with direct dmg alone. Condi dmg is necessary to balance out the immense sustain powercreep some classes in WvW still enjoy : engineerrangernecro These 3 above have innate sustain , can have access to long term boons on top medium-high base HP....condi is most times the only answer to them Thief-rev High defense against power spike with block/teleports and stealth in thief case...again condi is the only answer to avoid any further delay ; my point is that any nerf to condi dmg must be accompanied by nerfs to sustain for some specs, typically they ones I have mentioned

Lol...players asking for buffs on deadeye....absurd...completely absurd -Only a well played herald or sustain soulbeast got any chance to kill a DE not played by a potato-Most specs haven't got the mobility to either catch it up or run away from it-things like Silent Scope are still present in game...the only reason why people don't complain about it now, it's because the dmg has been nerfed....otherwise...

....Just don't leave PvE and you will be fine otherwise you'll find out the truth... Mage class?...I wish ...we all wish GW2 elementalist was an actual mage...personally if I could I'd take back all the time/money investment on this class, wasted 9k+ hrs on top of thousand gold used for crafting mastery, legendary armor etc etc Your game..your choices but....I warmly recommend you to leave this class , GW2 is not a game where effort=reward on the contrary....

Yeah....luckily you are not in charge, ideally a game designer should not show such strong bias..as you do, basically hating anything that can challenge your mesmer .and "loving" everything you can kill easily with a busted spec like the one you've described as being "fun" to fight against...accordingly to you. So mesmer should be this broken AI condi spamming "invincible" spec....while eles for example get constricted to FA ele...yeah, so for 90% of the fight an ele would have zero targets due to stealth uptime and the rest of the time distortion would be up..while the FA ele die fast to condi spam.... Ofc you love FA ele and hate d/d ele...the first is close to being a free kill requiring 5x more effort and skill than any mesmer build since launch...the other may actual pose a real threat due to its sustain -You love spellbreakers because again..easy to kite with that 8s CD away teleport, stealth etc etc-You love sniper rangers because....evasive reflection...ez-You love burst guardians because....read warrior Basically you love everything you can kill easy on your mesmer.......this is why I continue to say that player forums should not exist in any official manner or at the very least should never be taken seriously

I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case. I know that anything that isnt ranger is a big mystery to you, but you do know Elementalist has teleports, blocks and channeled invulns, right? Every class has several built in defense mechanisms. Ele does too, as seen above. I get why thief, youre obsessed with that class, and Mesmer is close enough to thief, but why would a ranger lover mention ranger here? You can keep repeating this ranger mantra for as long as you wish...it won't make it that much more truthful and neither I do care about it, you just ridicule yourself every time you repeat it and now you trying to lecture me on ele....truly puts the cherry on the cake...as others pointed out already.....you are really clueless I mean it cant be any more truthful than the absolute truth, so yes, it wont become more truthful by default. And given that you just made a grave error about Ele, yeah of course Im lecturing you about it. I know Ele well enough at least to not say something as wrong as "Ele has no defense mechanisms". You are the one who is clueless. There is a reason you got compared with Burnfall. ...I am laughing so hard now...you really have no idea..... Got extended screenshots but again...I keep putting myself on display for everybody ...I'd like to see you, other than a forum warrior ...there is nothing to prove you know what you are on about Well, at least you learned from last time when people laughed at you when you posted a screenshot of you having other classes as proof that you multiclassed. That being said, how do I know this is you? Besides, argumentum ab auctoritatem. If you have to rely on who you are (assuming that is you) instead of using actual arguments, that points to you not having arguments.So in the end...you just talk gibberish, you have been disqualified by me on numerous occasions and now out of respect for myself...I will ask you please to stop picking on my comments....I may as well talk about balance with "Tom" over there farming wood in Queensdale...same level of knowledge...so pls

I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case. I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele. -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that But fresh air ele does have defenses... 2 invulns, mad projectile hate, ample amount of cc, and a teleport that is comparable to blink, instacast but not technically a stunbreak. Dont get me wrong you are squishy as kitten, but I'd argue that damage to survivability it is comparable to burst mes. At the end of the day if your smart about positioning and matchups it is very playable. If any of that would hold a candle...FA ele would have been listed at least as good on metabattle since launch and the last guy who tried FA ele in GW2 pvp was one NA guy ( forgot his name, was a well known ele ) against Team Paradigm ( where @Phantaram.1265 used to play) during a tournie in 2013....enough to say, he got farmed so hard..nobody ever tried to run a FA ele during a real PvP match since then. FA Ele has been good multiple times during GW2s lifespan. But usually it was outshined by Cele Ele, which still had high DPS, but also endless survivability. I guess you forgot about that, huh? Nope. Pretty much all of those are hilariously wrong. The major issue FA Ele had for most of GW2s lifespan is just that it was outclassed by Cele Ele. Why go full glass full damage, if you can go tanky as hell and still have high damage? This only really stopped being true with PoF, where even that form of Ele was outclassed by things like Holo. Please stop embarrassing yourself any further......I need to stop before I fell off my chair..laughing

I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case. I know that anything that isnt ranger is a big mystery to you, but you do know Elementalist has teleports, blocks and channeled invulns, right? Every class has several built in defense mechanisms. Ele does too, as seen above. I get why thief, youre obsessed with that class, and Mesmer is close enough to thief, but why would a ranger lover mention ranger here? You can keep repeating this ranger mantra for as long as you wish...it won't make it that much more truthful and neither I do care about it, you just ridicule yourself every time you repeat it and now you trying to lecture me on ele....truly puts the cherry on the cake...as others pointed out already.....you are really clueless I mean it cant be any more truthful than the absolute truth, so yes, it wont become more truthful by default. And given that you just made a grave error about Ele, yeah of course Im lecturing you about it. I know Ele well enough at least to not say something as wrong as "Ele has no defense mechanisms". You are the one who is clueless. There is a reason you got compared with Burnfall. ...I am laughing so hard now...you really have no idea..... Got extended screenshots but again...I keep putting myself on display for everybody ...I'd like to see you, other than a forum warrior ...there is nothing to prove you know what you are on about

I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case. I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele. -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that But fresh air ele does have defenses... 2 invulns, mad projectile hate, ample amount of cc, and a teleport that is comparable to blink, instacast but not technically a stunbreak. Dont get me wrong you are squishy as kitten, but I'd argue that damage to survivability it is comparable to burst mes. At the end of the day if your smart about positioning and matchups it is very playable.If any of that would hold a candle...FA ele would have been listed at least as good on metabattle since launch and the last guy who tried FA ele in GW2 pvp was one NA guy ( forgot his name, was a well known ele ) against Team Paradigm ( where @Phantaram.1265 used to play) during a tournie in 2013....enough to say, he got farmed so hard..nobody ever tried to run a FA ele during a real PvP match since then. The major issues of FA ele are and always been : 900 range burst and target requirement making the build an easy pick for stealth specs and 1200 teleport burst , the dmg to survivability is not even close to a core mesmer shatter...at least not more, it was somehow possible before to outskill a core mesmer...before the nerfs that made FA ele even worst than the worst spec status it was before

I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case. I know that anything that isnt ranger is a big mystery to you, but you do know Elementalist has teleports, blocks and channeled invulns, right? Every class has several built in defense mechanisms. Ele does too, as seen above. I get why thief, youre obsessed with that class, and Mesmer is close enough to thief, but why would a ranger lover mention ranger here?You can keep repeating this ranger mantra for as long as you wish...it won't make it that much more truthful and neither I do care about it, you just ridicule yourself every time you repeat it and now you trying to lecture me on ele....truly puts the cherry on the cake...as others pointed out already.....you are really clueless