Ehecatl.9172

While we're at it let us keep the pet stowed when we enter combat and unstow it on command instead of it being automatic. It is incredibly condescending that Anet refuses to let us make a strategic decision because they think we don't know when we want our pet out and when we don't. It could even be a toggle in the options menu for if we want auto-unstow or manual unstow to fit our preference.

It is fine. I would've preferred like.. The Primal or something personally. Untamed is a bit clunky and doesn't sound like a profession. "So. What is your job?" "I AM UNTAMED." "O... Okay. What do you do?" "I untame things." "And that pet at your side is...?" "Untame. Don't try to pet it."

Yah, I have to admit the shade they went with is a little... Slimy. At least it probably won't be active outside of combat like Soul Merging is. I imagine we won't be that color all the time.

This looks exciting. Empowering the pet as I smack the enemy around with my hammer is the sort of melee playstyle I was hoping for. The plant explosion AoE looked especially interesting. I wonder if that is a hammer skill or if it is tied to the new Primal Energy mechanic. If it is from Primal Energy we could end up with a playstyle of empowering the pet, running it into enemy groups, and detonating it for big damage. That'd be pretty funny. Explosive pets. I also like the idea of managing who has the Primal Energy and when. It might give the folks who wanted a petless spec a little leeway if they can just hoard the Primal Energy for themselves and leave the pet out to dry. Depends on how we're supposed to generate the resource I imagine. Lots of potential for something fun. We'll need to see how it is executed on Friday to see how good it is.

This reveals maddeningly little. At least since we already knew we were getting a hammer. The flourish of leaves is interesting. It might suggest the hammer has some nature themed AoE blasts when we swing it instead of just being a martial weapon like Greatsword.

GW2 PVPers have such a weirdly fragile ego concerning "AI". I can't think of another competitive game I've played where people complain so much about other classes having AI assistance through class design. Ranger was conceptualized as a pet class. Our pet mechanic should be every bit as impactful and useful as any other class' mechanic. Anything less just isn't fair game balance.

You have, and I do appreciate the effort you put into the responses. And I'll even acknowledge that it would take a LOT of work to make a viable beastmaster elite spec work. My argument is only that if Anet wanted to put the work in they could produce something viable. It isn't literally impossible, and people who want something like it aren't being foolish for wanting it. I also think that the level of work that it'd take is exactly why we're probably never going to see a major pet rework outside of the context of an elite spec that relies on that mechanic, but that is just my personal opinion. Reworking our support elite spec to be viable in big groups would be a LOT easier than trying to make a viable pet spec for the same role, I'll agree with you there. Anet consistently drops the ball when it comes to ranger.

Calling someone delusional is, in fact, an insult. And I'm personally tired of reading people judge a concept that doesn't even exist yet as if they can see the future. You can't. Everything you've said are your personal thoughts on the game's design and why you can't imagine the elite spec working. But it also misses my ultimate point. Anet CAN give the pet stability if they want. They CAN make the pet immune to crowd control if they want. They can make the pet an immobile totem that can't be targeted if they want or remove the pet mechanic entirely like you want. The class and its mechanics are highly malleable. It is just a matter of coming up with a design that works and fine tuning it. Look at your own post. You're not arguing "they can't." You're arguing "they won't." You don't believe Anet will add the mechanics the ranger needs. And for good reason, even. Years of neglect doesn't spark much faith. But my argument isn't that Anet WILL do these things. Only that they COULD if, and only if, they really committed to making an elite spec like that. Just like they COULD have made druid a solid support option for more than just raids or they COULD have designed soulbeast to bring more utility to big group fights than it currently does. If our next elite spec is crap it won't be because it does or does not rely on the pet mechanic. It'll be because Anet gives a crap about making the ranger spec viable or don't. Thinking about it a bit, boonstrip on the pet would be pretty thematically interesting. Hammer for stuns and controlling the enemy and maybe the Physical utility set that give our active pet/pets special moves that can strip or steal boons from the target.

They can if they put the effort into it. Why do you assume Anet can't give the pet stability through the new elite spec traitline so they don't need nature magic? Why do you assume Anet can't add more ways to share boons attached to that traitline? I mean heck, that'd be pretty basic for any spec meant to use the pet heavily. Anet CAN give rangers pretty much any tool they want to give us. Just like they can turn mesmer clones into daggers or change guardian virtues into movement skills. They can add or remove all kinds of functionality involving the pet if they wanted to. Ah, so we've reached the point where you're just going to insult me and cast doubt on my competence, then?

Trust me, I am extremely aware of how bad Anet has been with handling the ranger class. I was a very active poster on this forum once and was a big contributor to the Druid beta thread. Loads of ideas were given and almost none of them were taken. Loads of ideas of how to fix core rangers issues have been included, including by Anduriell, and none have been taken. But just because something has been a certain way doesn't mean it can never change. Just because pets have been a neglected mechanic doesn't mean an elite spec focusing on them has to also be neglected. If Anet wanted to make a pet focused spec that worked in group fights they COULD. They literally control the game's coding. There's nothing outside engine limitations they can't do. Which is why I push back so hard at the idea that a pet spec can NEVER be viable. Never say never. You can't judge something that doesn't even exist yet. At any rate, arguing about it is kind of pointless. We'll get what we get in a month. But I think we can all agree that being made to wait until last again is some bull and doesn't inspire confidence.

No. Just because Anet has been lazy doesn't mean they will always be lazy. Especially with a new elite spec that is a part of their marketing for the latest expansion. Again, just because Anet has been lazy with ranger doesn't mean we need to just accept they always will be. By the logic you present here it doesn't matter what our elite spec will be because Anet will always give us something niche that barely works. Of course not. I am saying that an elite spec that changes the pet mechanic into something with more oomph would provide a playstyle that core ranger doesn't currently have. You're just trying to shove words in my mouth at this point and I don't appreciate it. There's no reason Anet can't provide a lord of beasts style elite spec that alters the pet system in such a way that it becomes functional as a melee brawler AND touch up the core pet system with some of the ideas they used to make the elite spec better. In fact if the elite spec is reliant on our pets it gives Anet an even greater incentive to at least go back and fix a lot of the pet related bugs and give balance tweaks to the less used pets which would help core ranger too. An elite spec that removes the pet entirely though? That gives Anet more excuses to ignore the core ranger's problems forever.

I fundamentally reject this notion and I think it is a harmful mindset for ranger mains to fall into. We should not under any circumstance just resign ourselves to the idea that our core mechanic cannot function in the PVP format of the game our class was literally created to play in. There have been so many quality suggestions on this forum over the years that would address the pet's issues. It is absurd to say that it is impossible for the pet to work well as a mechanic just because Anet has been lazy about putting the work in to fix it. There's also a traitline in core ranger for nature magic. That doesn't mean Druid was redundant or didn't offer a new style of play. Beastmaster on its own is not equivalent to an elite spec designed with the flavor of being a master of beasts in mind just like Nature Magic on its own is not equivalent to being a nature based spellcaster like druid. If anyone doesn't want a pet focused elite spec that is fine. We're all entitled to our opinions. I am just getting tired of reading how my preference is somehow mechanically impossible and can only be bad.

Your concerns can all be smoothed out with balancing and tweaking the numbers. My suggestion wasn't meant to be a fully balanced elite spec out the gate, it was just some simple ideas on how a pet focused elite spec could operate without being automatically incapable of dealing with group fights. That said I just disagree that an elite spec that doesn't ditch the pet can't be viable. There are a lot of ways they could go about it if they really wanted to. Now if you were arguing rangers should have the option to perma stow their pet for when having a pet is an active detriment that much I'd agree with in a heart beat. We should be allowed to choose whether having the pet out is to our benefit or not rather than the game deciding that for us. That shouldn't be tied to elite specs alone though, it should just be an option even core ranger gets.

If they are going nostalgia factor (like they admitted to with the Bladesworn and Dragon Trigger) then I think bunny thumper is likely. If they go this route I would imagine it working best with two active pets and no pet swap. Maybe pet swap gets replaced with a combo burst between the pets and ranger or something. Then just remove the pet's health bar and have them get injured when the ranger gets injured. Restrict the pets to staying within 300ish range of the ranger at all times and have them set to only attack the target the ranger is currently hammering. Core ranger would have pet swap and the long range pet leash making it better for long range skirmishing builds while the Bunny Thumper, because their pets can't die but are stuck as your side, would be the better choice for jumping into the thick of a fight with their two pets providing high sustained damage to anyone within their shorter pet leash. The hammer would have a lot of knock down potential to keep enemies pinned inside their pet range for high damage.

The druid's pet just being weaker is such a weird trade off too. What, is the druid so busy studying the stars that they forget to feed their pets? Are our druids bad pet owners? What's really frustrating is it wouldn't be hard to make the pet feel like an actual part of the druid spec rather than something tacked on. Like you said; reduce or remove the pet's offensive damage and buff its survivability significantly. Then make it so certain Astral Form abilities project a second casting from your pet so that you're healing allies around you and allies on the front line through the pet without getting into melee yourself. Suddenly the pet is a part of your elite spec mechanic and its placement is a part of the druid support playstyle. Druid as designed is so awkward. I don't hate the spec, but the astral form definitely feels glued on rather than something that fit naturally into the class design.

On the plus side this increases the possibility of ranger hammer being a non-projectile long-ranged casting weapon rather than another melee tool. It'd be a bit samey to give two classes a melee hammer focused on control skills. Not that they wouldn't do that, but still.

Greatsword seems cool but the legend feels... Underwhelming. Viktor and Archemorous aren't really legends in and of themselves. They're characters in Shiro's legend. The only thing of note they did was deal the killing blow on Shiro after Vizu had disarmed him and after he cut down an entire squad of soldiers sent to kill him. They're also two more humans and both Canthan on top of that which wouldn't be an issue if we didn't already have a Canthan human legend in Shiro. I get that we're going to Cantha and they wanted it to tie into Canthan lore but... Cantha's biggest event was already represented. Now we have two legends about the same event. If they were going to give us a human they could've at least followed a different cataclysmic event. The Lich Khilbron as he sank Orr or Adelbern as he unleashed the Foefire would both be incredible events in Tyria's history that would come with some very fun mechanics. It just kind of feels like a waste thematically speaking. Lore-wise this is just channeling the Legend of the Jade Wind a second time.

Charr make for an excellent ranger choice. It can be easy to forget with all the war machines and industrialization but they do also still use warbeasts in their military and as such have ranches where they tame and train devourers, drakes, and other beasts. My own charr ranger's backstory has him as a drake breeder for the Iron legion before he went his own way. They also still make use of archers as we see with Rox. Likely because ranging requires stealth and ammo you can make from the environment is useful on extremely long ranges. Your typical ranger in the Legions will be long ranged scouts, foresters, and trackers who use a combination of the charr's natural senses and a tamed animal companion to hunt down enemies of their legion. Now that we have the Olmakhan charr might actually be the best ranger option. Charr who worship nature and who's NPCs are the only ones in the entire game that use the druid staff animations.

I am hoping for a more Revenant style hammer that is used to rouse nature spirits from their slumber by striking the ground. Give it a mid to long range non-projectile auto attack that summons piercing vines from below and a bunch of AoE damage attacks and it'd fill a very unique niche in our arsenal. This is what I imagine too. It could have a 1,200 range but maximizes its damage at 300ish range and has a skill set revolving around ensnaring enemies in nets, pulling enemies with harpoons, and closing the distance rather than creating distance like the longbow does. Longbow is better at kiting while the rifle would be a pursuit weapon to stop enemies from escaping that can pair up nicely with greatsword, sword, or axes. If the pull works like Scorpion Wire it'd give rangers a new value in sieges if nothing else. Maybe if we can make it unblockable through some utility skill we could have a niche of pulling people out of the enemy zerg.

So you basically just don't want rangers in your game then, right? Because you know the ranger's core mechanic is having a pet and that the entire class is built around working in tandem with their pet to be able to win fights. It is literally impossible to play without a pet. So you are quite literally arguing every ranger should be a free kill by virtue of their class's core design.

Modremoth definitely. I feel like he was the most unique take on an elemental dragon creature I've seen. He wasn't just some big dragon at the heart of the jungle. By the time we arrive he WAS the jungle, and he was spreading. He was able to creep across all of Tyria and reach the far side of of the continent many, many miles away from him that made him a threat to enemies that weren't geographically close, something we'd only really seen Primordus do and that was because his geographic location was just "down". He was also smart enough to target out waypoints and destroy our means of easily traversing Tyria to stop him. His understanding of our methods of war culminated in what is probably the most memorable and iconic moment in GW2 so far; the total destruction of the Pact in a single coordinated strike. Fighting through Maguuma really felt like Modremoth was around every corner every step of the way. Every root and every tree was potentially a part of him and his minions were omnipresent. We had to make quick allies of the forest's native creatures (of which I desperately wish Itzl or Nuhoch were playable, love those guys) and fight a truly uphill battle through what is easily the deadliest jungle on Tyria. His minions were also really cool. The Sylvari obviously, but also the entangled dinosaurs and massive plant creatures. I also liked how he basically had cloning facilities for his minions that allowed him a steady stream of his most powerful champions. His champions were even harder to permanently put down than the Dragon of Death's because whenever we destroyed one he could just make another with the same knowledge and experience if given time. His fight in Dragonstand is also the first time I truly felt tiny compared to an enemy in GW2. They did a good job making him feel absolutely massive and deadly and I really bought that it'd take a full military force to bring him down. But even that wouldn't have been successful without Trahearne, first of the Firstborn, sacrificing himself to give a small but elite team a chance at taking Modremoth's mind. There were a lot of things in HoT I felt was rushed and I really wish we'd gotten to explore more of Modremoth and the Sylvari while we had a chance (like Malyck's tree and its fate) but overall I really liked what we did get from him. He's a great example of what the power of nature can be if wielded by an amoral creature that wants only to grow its influence across the entire world.

Garruk here seems perfectly happy carrying his massive bardiche around as his primary weapon and he's one of the most iconic and recognizable nature wizards in Magic the Gathering. In the same setting this is Borborygmos, the cylopean ruler of the Gruul Clans, an ancient order of druids and shamans who seeks to return the world of Ravnica to a more natural state by waging war against the civilization that has paved over it. How about Rexxar, the famous Mok'Nathal Beastmaster from Warcraft who is known for his powerful bond with his animal companions and his love for the wilds. Or even Broll Bearmantle who, despite being an elf, prefers to fight by ripping people a part with his bear hands or beating them with the blunt force of his staff. Here is a Pathfinder figure of a half-orc druid using a spiked cudgel as his go-to weapon. None of these characters operate with the "grace and elegance" of an evlish warrior, but they are all nature warriors that can fall under the umbrella of a GW2 ranger.

There is definitely more to the nature wanderer theme than elves, which I think is the crux of the argument. Crackmonster seems to have a very narrow view of ranger that doesn't account for non-finesse approaches to the nature warrior motif. I've already pointed toward my own ranger. A max height charr wielding a fantasy version of the macuahuitl, one of the most brutal melee weapons devised in history. It is a large, wooden club with a serrated edge and, in this particular case, thick metal spikes. It isn't a weapon he would hunt with, but it IS a weapon he'd use to rip into his enemies with the spikes and serrated edges mimicking the fangs and teeth of the wild animals he venerates. Ranger greatsword is evasive, but I'd never call it an elegant weapon. It is fast, powerful, and mauls the enemy to death like a great bear or tiger coming down on its prey. Using weapons to mimic the killing strategies of venerated animals is a perfectly acceptable flavor of ranger that differentiates from the "graceful elegance" of the elven fantasy. Given that two of the three most prolific ranger races in GW2 are charr (giant, horned felines with claws the length of a person's forearm) and norn (huge, hulking giants with unmatched physical strength and hardiness) I think it is safe to say that not all rangers are meant to be quick, dexterous, and elegant. That falls in line with Sylvari, but doesn't suit charr or norn as well. For them picking up a huge greatsword and imitating their preferred predator or grabbing a warhammer and reminding their foes what an avalanche or falling tree feels like is perfectly naturey.

Well I mean... My tauren druid in World of Warcraft wielded a warhammer and it still felt perfectly druidic. He used it to crush the enemies of nature before using his magic to heal the harm they did to the land. I've also played a Lizardfolk druid with a cudgel and a half-orc druid with a battleaxe in DnD before. Not exactly hammers but thematically similar. For that matter this is my ranger currently... His weapon choice isn't exactly elegant.

I would be shocked if we don't get phoenixes. They were such a popular pet in GW1. I had one myself.